Game 20 vs Sabres - Thoughts from the Morning After

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Game 20 vs Sabres - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Penspal on Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:34 am

Pens win 5-4 in OT

- The dreaded 1st home game after a long road trip... Pens pulled it out with some late heroics and some horrible play by the almost worst team ---> Sabres
- Hockey is such a game of inches/luck/hardwork/hockeygods. Sheary's goal going under the pad as an example. Pens dominated but could have easily lost this game
- That Maata pass from behind his own net off the wall to a streaking Horny at the opposite blue line.... wow. Ollie's passes are noticible.
- Pens 5-3 Powerplay needs a new mentality that MUST include the word SHOOT (and not the word foot, which is does now)
- Eichel & Kane both miss out on Gordie Howe hatties because refs will not call droped gloves and punch(es) thrown a fight. :roll:
- Has their been a "tougher" Penguin than Hornqvist? And by tough, I mean take a beating and not only keep going, but seems to find another gear? #vikingtough
- Okay, Sid's off the schneid. Love the superstitious no helmet in warmups! I love this about hockey, its like prayers to feeds the Hockey Gods.
- Lehner left the net so quickly & seemed super pissed off. After his 3rd period save on Rust, can't blame him, horrendous "dzone" coverage by Eichel....
- Letang and the penalty... ugh
- Refs were not very good in this game.... too many even up calls on bad initial calls.... Yes, tough transitioning to the "new" rules, but c'mon zebras.
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Re: Game 20 vs Sabres - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby albalz on Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:18 am

Horny is the the ultimate hockey professional. He only knows one way to play and its balls to the wall. :D

Very thankful the Penguins found a way to win, couldn't handle a home loss to the Sabers.

I'm still waiting for Murray to get going. Hope we don't have to wait until spring.
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Re: Game 20 vs Sabres - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby RisslingsMissingTeeth on Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:24 am

My bits:
- Been really pimping up the play of Sheary this season. The knock used to be, 'he can't score unless he is with Sid'. Last night showed he can do both. He is one of the few shining stars of the early season. When he isn't scoring he is buzzing around creating havoc and getting into position.
- Some pretty terrible defensive plays. Maatta almost always plays the man but he tried a stick battle for the puck and lost. Later Letang didn't pick up his man (dude has zero on-ice vision) and another goes in. What in the heck were Cole and Dumo both doing over on the side on the penalty kill? Another goal. D needs to think more about who they are guarding.
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Re: Game 20 vs Sabres - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby KG on Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:52 am

Good to get the win. With the amount of games they have played the past two seasons it's obvious they aren't going to be contenders for the coveted Presidents Trophy :)

I'm OK with them not emptying the tank in the regular season. Just stay healthy enough and get in the playoffs.

Rutherford will make some adjustments to the team and improve the center depth.

With all the games played the last 2 years, the kids should step up and provide energy throughout the season. If Sprong or ZAR are ready they too could provide a shot in the arm mid season, like Sheary, Guentzel did.
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Re: Game 20 vs Sabres - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby wondermoose on Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:52 am

They're still making way too many catastrophic mistakes, but meh. It's just good to see them really keep their foot on the pedal for an entire game.
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Re: Game 20 vs Sabres - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Mango Salsa on Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:15 am

Maybe Sheahan should try warmups without his helmet. Lehner stuffed his best scoring chance all season.
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Re: Game 20 vs Sabres - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Penspal on Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:29 am

Mango Salsa wrote:Maybe Sheahan should try warmups without his helmet. Lehner stuffed his best scoring chance all season.


I like it. SID, steal his helmet next warmup!
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Re: Game 20 vs Sabres - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Penspal on Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:49 am

Mango Salsa wrote:Maybe Sheahan should try warmups without his helmet. Lehner stuffed his best scoring chance all season.



Anyone see the Sheahan interview between periods. I got the sense that he's lacking confidence (might just be fear of media too).
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Re: Game 20 vs Sabres - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Mango Salsa on Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:07 am

Penspal wrote:
Mango Salsa wrote:Maybe Sheahan should try warmups without his helmet. Lehner stuffed his best scoring chance all season.


I like it. SID, steal his helmet next warmup!


Maybe do stick handling drills on the Dick's logo
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Re: Game 20 vs Sabres - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Puck-Lurker on Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:13 am

Yay, we won. Goodness me could we have lost badly any number of ways there. Thought we were a lot better than the Sabres, but it didn't show in chances. We do struggle against counterpunching teams an awful lot.

- Need to get a grip on odd-man rushes. If you pinch, you better make sure you got the puck.
- Määttä with the long bank pass was a great sight.
- Crosby scoring is a good thing. Can't have droughts get into your head.
- Some stupid penalties - again.
- Quicker shooting please.
- Keep this lines for a while, they are NOT the problem
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Re: Game 20 vs Sabres - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby no name on Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:57 am

Letang looks even worse in person then he does on TV. Hard to believe you anchor a Stanley cup champion in 2016 and look like a rookie 2 years later. Ok I am being to harsh give him time.

My sons first game, it was quite a night he loved everything about it. Sorry just had to throw that in.

Good to see Sid get the monkey off his back
Geno and Phil building some good chemistry.
Defensive breakdowns, led to the goals, not so much as Murray, not sure about the Eichel goal>?>

The Eichel goal??? Murrays fault for not covering the post or Great play by Eichel, or just a bonehead Letang giveaway??? Can't decide.
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Re: Game 20 vs Sabres - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby FLPensFan on Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:07 pm

OK, so, after my rant last game of stepping away from the game of hockey....I didn't. Guess I'll just learn to turn off the TV when the officiating sucks or the Pens play like crap. :D

--I actually thought the Penguins played much better last night. They had a lot of sustained chances where they dominated possession and were good on the cycle, but just came up short.

--I actually thought the team was more a victim of bad luck than more bad play last night on many of the Sabres goals. Consider:
----On the Sabres first goal, the Malkin line was dominating with an extended offensive shift. Unfortunately, Cole pinched a little too much, and Eichel/Kane went the other way against a tired Pens group.
----On the Reinhart goal, I really can't fault Maatta. He was in good position, but Reinhart was just able to react quicker with his stick. Maatta was there, just not as quick.
----The Eichel goal was just a poor play by Crosby. I know he THOUGHT Rust was going to go the other way, but, it was a lazy pass. Gotta make smarter plays around the net and be sure.

--The Penguins PP really needs to step it up. Go watch one of the top PP units in the league (besides the Penguins), and pay particular attention to the player movement. The Penguins often play too much of a stationary PP. They barely move, and try and dare PKers to come at the puck holder and then move the puck to someone else. It becomes predictable. They need to get some movement going on the PP.

--I was a big fan of the Ryan Reaves trade, but, quite simply, he doesn't deserve a spot in the lineup right now. I am not of the thinking that he is the uber-deterrent and players are going to cower in fear because he is on the team. But, what I do expect to see from him is more pushback (doesn't have to be huge hit or a fight) when teams are taking liberties against the Penguins. Falk to a minor degree was doing some stuff after the whistles. Benoit Pouliot was 90% of the time doing things within the rules, but, he was all over the place in terms of hits, little extra shots to Hornqvist and Sid and a bunch of others. Those are the types of plays where I expect Reaves to get on the ice, tell the player to cut the ****, and/or start doing the same (legal) things to guys like Eichel, Kane, and Reinhart. Reaves just isn't doing the job I expect him to do when he is on the ice, and I don't know if it is him or how Sullivan is telling him to play......but it isn't working and isn't worth the spot in the starting 12 right now.

--Speaking of Pouliot, he's a UFA at seasons end, and I wouldn't mind the Penguins trying to make a play for Pouliot and Chad Johnson at the trade deadline. Both are UFAs, and would help sure up some areas going into the playoffs. I'm sure Jason Botteril would take a pick and maybe one of his "pet project" type guys in WBS (someone not as highly touted but maybe he holds in high regard or had a heavy hand in getting drafted).

--I have mentioned before a group of players (who I am now referring to as "The Uglies") in the bottom 6 that aren't helping the team much. Reaves, McKegg, Sheahan, Kuhnhackl, and Hagelin. It's time to get Josh Archibald into the lineup in place of one of these guys, and it is time to bring up someone from WBS (DiPauli, Blueger, Aston-Reese, Johnson, Simon) to make The Uglies earn their roster spot and place in the starting lineup, instead of just having it handed to them. The Uglies combined have 4 goals and 8 assists ON THE SEASON. That's not good enough even for 4th line players. This team needs more secondary production from guys outside of Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, Hornqvist, Rust, Sheary, and Guentzel. They don't all need to score every game, but you should be getting a goal from your 3rd and 4th lines every 1 or 2 games. These guys aren't getting the job done. It's not a panic, but it is time to stop giving them free passes and free spots in the lineup when none of them are producing right now. It is time to start getting some other guys in the lineup in their place.
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Re: Game 20 vs Sabres - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Owchar76 on Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:39 pm

--I was a big fan of the Ryan Reaves trade, but, quite simply, he doesn't deserve a spot in the lineup right now. I am not of the thinking that he is the uber-deterrent and players are going to cower in fear because he is on the team. But, what I do expect to see from him is more pushback (doesn't have to be huge hit or a fight) when teams are taking liberties against the Penguins. Falk to a minor degree was doing some stuff after the whistles. Benoit Pouliot was 90% of the time doing things within the rules, but, he was all over the place in terms of hits, little extra shots to Hornqvist and Sid and a bunch of others. Those are the types of plays where I expect Reaves to get on the ice, tell the player to cut the ****, and/or start doing the same (legal) things to guys like Eichel, Kane, and Reinhart. Reaves just isn't doing the job I expect him to do when he is on the ice, and I don't know if it is him or how Sullivan is telling him to play......but it isn't working and isn't worth the spot in the starting 12 right now.


Wait, you mean he doesn't have skill or talent nor does he prevent/deter, anything from happening? Hogwash FLPensfan! This team is able to skate 5 feet taller out there and not have to worry about the extra curricular stuff with him out there. Hence Sid lighting it up. (wait), hence Geno not having to fight (wait)....great post btw, I fully agree.

Nice to see Pouliot playing really well in Vancouver too. His former coach knows what he can do, and he's giving him that chance and showing confidence.
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Re: Game 20 vs Sabres - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby FLPensFan on Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:56 pm

Owchar76 wrote:
--I was a big fan of the Ryan Reaves trade, but, quite simply, he doesn't deserve a spot in the lineup right now. I am not of the thinking that he is the uber-deterrent and players are going to cower in fear because he is on the team. But, what I do expect to see from him is more pushback (doesn't have to be huge hit or a fight) when teams are taking liberties against the Penguins. Falk to a minor degree was doing some stuff after the whistles. Benoit Pouliot was 90% of the time doing things within the rules, but, he was all over the place in terms of hits, little extra shots to Hornqvist and Sid and a bunch of others. Those are the types of plays where I expect Reaves to get on the ice, tell the player to cut the ****, and/or start doing the same (legal) things to guys like Eichel, Kane, and Reinhart. Reaves just isn't doing the job I expect him to do when he is on the ice, and I don't know if it is him or how Sullivan is telling him to play......but it isn't working and isn't worth the spot in the starting 12 right now.


Wait, you mean he doesn't have skill or talent nor does he prevent/deter, anything from happening? Hogwash FLPensfan! This team is able to skate 5 feet taller out there and not have to worry about the extra curricular stuff with him out there. Hence Sid lighting it up. (wait), hence Geno not having to fight (wait)....great post btw, I fully agree.

Nice to see Pouliot playing really well in Vancouver too. His former coach knows what he can do, and he's giving him that chance and showing confidence.

I don't dislike his play, but I don't think he is able to play "Ryan Reaves hockey" right now. I think Sullivan would rather not dress him, to be honest. More to the fact, realizing the team is one of the most penalized teams in the NHL right now, and their penalty killing is near the bottom, it wouldn't surprise me that Sullivan is holding back Reaves in situations for fear of him taking costly penalties.

The deter thing is dumb/nonsense in my book, but he can dish out what other teams are giving, or get in the face of guys dishing it out and letting them know he's gonna drop gloves with them if it continues. But he doesn't, and with the lack of production in the bottom 6, I'd rather see another player out there at the moment.
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Re: Game 20 vs Sabres - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby RisslingsMissingTeeth on Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:08 pm

Pittsburgh spent the past 2 years showing the NHL that the day of the slow knucklehead was over. Then they went and traded for one.
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Re: Game 20 vs Sabres - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Hot Dog Vendor on Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:20 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
Owchar76 wrote:
--I was a big fan of the Ryan Reaves trade, but, quite simply, he doesn't deserve a spot in the lineup right now. I am not of the thinking that he is the uber-deterrent and players are going to cower in fear because he is on the team. But, what I do expect to see from him is more pushback (doesn't have to be huge hit or a fight) when teams are taking liberties against the Penguins. Falk to a minor degree was doing some stuff after the whistles. Benoit Pouliot was 90% of the time doing things within the rules, but, he was all over the place in terms of hits, little extra shots to Hornqvist and Sid and a bunch of others. Those are the types of plays where I expect Reaves to get on the ice, tell the player to cut the ****, and/or start doing the same (legal) things to guys like Eichel, Kane, and Reinhart. Reaves just isn't doing the job I expect him to do when he is on the ice, and I don't know if it is him or how Sullivan is telling him to play......but it isn't working and isn't worth the spot in the starting 12 right now.


Wait, you mean he doesn't have skill or talent nor does he prevent/deter, anything from happening? Hogwash FLPensfan! This team is able to skate 5 feet taller out there and not have to worry about the extra curricular stuff with him out there. Hence Sid lighting it up. (wait), hence Geno not having to fight (wait)....great post btw, I fully agree.

Nice to see Pouliot playing really well in Vancouver too. His former coach knows what he can do, and he's giving him that chance and showing confidence.

I don't dislike his play, but I don't think he is able to play "Ryan Reaves hockey" right now. I think Sullivan would rather not dress him, to be honest. More to the fact, realizing the team is one of the most penalized teams in the NHL right now, and their penalty killing is near the bottom, it wouldn't surprise me that Sullivan is holding back Reaves in situations for fear of him taking costly penalties.

The deter thing is dumb/nonsense in my book, but he can dish out what other teams are giving, or get in the face of guys dishing it out and letting them know he's gonna drop gloves with them if it continues. But he doesn't, and with the lack of production in the bottom 6, I'd rather see another player out there at the moment.


I believe that the truth is probably closer to this. Remember the "roughing" penalty on his clean hit on Matt Tkachuk in Calgary? I can definitely see Reaves getting more of the Matt Cooke/Steve Downie/Tom Sestito treatment from the stripes as the season progresses. I suspect that Sullivan can, as well.
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Re: Game 20 vs Sabres - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Jim on Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:02 pm

As I mentioned the other day, while sitting in the stands watching the Caps/Oliers game it was QUITE CLEAR that Wilson was playing a VERY different game on Sunday than he was on Friday. On Sunday, he was, frankly, being Wilson. Late hits, high hits, after the whistle stuff. Things that he DID NOT DO on Friday. Reaves might not have the look that some people prefer, but he does change the nature of the games he plays in. Sure it doesn't stop everything, but it does make a noticable difference.. A lack of willingness to accept it does not negate it.

Complaining about the #12 forward is rather... sad. He is out scoring Sheahan. He is out scoring Hagelin. Sheahan is doing well on faceoffs, but neither of those guys are doing a anything else outside of offense, so Reaves is currently a better player all around than those two. Where is the CONSTANT WHINING about them being on the ice? I wonder why that is...?
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Re: Game 20 vs Sabres - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Pens4Life on Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:10 pm

Defense and Murray needs to pick up in form..they arent good.
Also guys like Hagelin, Reaves, McKegg, Kuhnhackl, Sheahan dont contribute on offensive side.. I mean expectations arent high,but
still they dont get us nothing at all.. I would just bring up Sprong and Simon,to spark some things on bottom lines..
scratch Hags, Reaves and Mckegg for couple of games.. Sprong to 2nd line, Simon to 3rd line, Sheahan to 4th..

Guentzel - Crosby - Rust
Sprong - Malkin - Kessel
Sheary - Simon - Hornquist
Kuhnhackl - Sheahan - Archibald
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Re: Game 20 vs Sabres - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Southern Fan on Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:47 pm

Jim wrote:As I mentioned the other day, while sitting in the stands watching the Caps/Oliers game it was QUITE CLEAR that Wilson was playing a VERY different game on Sunday than he was on Friday. On Sunday, he was, frankly, being Wilson. Late hits, high hits, after the whistle stuff. Things that he DID NOT DO on Friday. Reaves might not have the look that some people prefer, but he does change the nature of the games he plays in. Sure it doesn't stop everything, but it does make a noticable difference.. A lack of willingness to accept it does not negate it.

Complaining about the #12 forward is rather... sad. He is out scoring Sheahan. He is out scoring Hagelin. Sheahan is doing well on faceoffs, but neither of those guys are doing a anything else outside of offense, so Reaves is currently a better player all around than those two. Where is the CONSTANT WHINING about them being on the ice? I wonder why that is...?


Far too early to stick a fork in the Reaves experiment. I thought the shifts in the third for the fourth line changed the game to the positive. Playoff abuse is much worse than regular season abuse. Stay the course.

I'm still not sure Sullivan has figured out how to play everyone. The use of Reaves is still a work in process. Just like figuring out who the power play quarterback should be. And try predicting the line combinations for ten games from now.
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Re: Game 20 vs Sabres - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Mango Salsa on Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:47 am

The problem with Reaves is that he doesn't skate on a line with Sid or Malkin, so when someone gets rough with them he's on the bench. I remember a game back in the day where someone got rough with one of our boys and Krzysztof Oliwa shouted from the bench to Jan Hrdina to change. Hrdina came to the bench, Oliwa jumped on & Oliwa handled it. Maybe Reaves needs the green light to do something like this, before he becomes the new Georges Laraque
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Re: Game 20 vs Sabres - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Hot Dog Vendor on Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:28 am

Jim wrote:As I mentioned the other day, while sitting in the stands watching the Caps/Oliers game it was QUITE CLEAR that Wilson was playing a VERY different game on Sunday than he was on Friday. On Sunday, he was, frankly, being Wilson. Late hits, high hits, after the whistle stuff. Things that he DID NOT DO on Friday. Reaves might not have the look that some people prefer, but he does change the nature of the games he plays in. Sure it doesn't stop everything, but it does make a noticable difference.. A lack of willingness to accept it does not negate it.

Complaining about the #12 forward is rather... sad. He is out scoring Sheahan. He is out scoring Hagelin. Sheahan is doing well on faceoffs, but neither of those guys are doing a anything else outside of offense, so Reaves is currently a better player all around than those two. Where is the CONSTANT WHINING about them being on the ice? I wonder why that is...?


I'm co-signing on everything you've said in this post.

Like I stated earlier, I have this Reaves argument with one of my best friends daily. Until somebody offers me a better counter-argument on why Wilson played such a different game against the Pens than what we're accustomed to seeing from him, I'm going to maintain that it's either because he didn't want to be punched in the face by Reaves, or that Trotz told him to make sure he doesn't get punched in the face by Reaves.
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Re: Game 20 vs Sabres - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Hot Dog Vendor on Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:31 am

Mango Salsa wrote:The problem with Reaves is that he doesn't skate on a line with Sid or Malkin, so when someone gets rough with them he's on the bench. I remember a game back in the day where someone got rough with one of our boys and Krzysztof Oliwa shouted from the bench to Jan Hrdina to change. Hrdina came to the bench, Oliwa jumped on & Oliwa handled it. Maybe Reaves needs the green light to do something like this, before he becomes the new Georges Laraque


I've said since the beginning that the one thing that Reaves has over the Downies & the Sestitos of the NHL is that he would not look out of place taking the occasional shift with the top 2 lines.

Reaves is a good skater for his size, and he does have a good bit of hockey IQ. That is plain to see.

I still think that the usage of Reaves that we're seeing is one of two things:

1. Sullivan has yet to figure out how to use him in the most beneficial manner....
OR....
2. Sullivan disagrees greatly with JR's opinion that this team needs the kind of element that Reaves brings.

I'm sure Sullivan has done his homework on the matter, and he's well aware of how past enforcers on this team have been treated by the referees.
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Re: Game 20 vs Sabres - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby RisslingsMissingTeeth on Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:49 am

Pens4Life wrote:Guentzel - Crosby - Rust
Sprong - Malkin - Kessel
Sheary - Simon - Hornquist
Kuhnhackl - Sheahan - Archibald


Not that it matters but I love this suggestion. I'll nominate you for our next GM.

RMT
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Re: Game 20 vs Sabres - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby penny lane on Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:19 am

RisslingsMissingTeeth wrote:
Pens4Life wrote:Guentzel - Crosby - Rust
Sprong - Malkin - Kessel
Sheary - Simon - Hornquist
Kuhnhackl - Sheahan - Archibald


Not that it matters but I love this suggestion. I'll nominate you for our next GM.

RMT

:thumb:
I like-retweet 8-)
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Re: Game 20 vs Sabres - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Jim on Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:21 am

Hot Dog Vendor wrote:
Mango Salsa wrote:The problem with Reaves is that he doesn't skate on a line with Sid or Malkin, so when someone gets rough with them he's on the bench. I remember a game back in the day where someone got rough with one of our boys and Krzysztof Oliwa shouted from the bench to Jan Hrdina to change. Hrdina came to the bench, Oliwa jumped on & Oliwa handled it. Maybe Reaves needs the green light to do something like this, before he becomes the new Georges Laraque


I've said since the beginning that the one thing that Reaves has over the Downies & the Sestitos of the NHL is that he would not look out of place taking the occasional shift with the top 2 lines.

Reaves is a good skater for his size, and he does have a good bit of hockey IQ. That is plain to see.

I still think that the usage of Reaves that we're seeing is one of two things:

1. Sullivan has yet to figure out how to use him in the most beneficial manner....
OR....
2. Sullivan disagrees greatly with JR's opinion that this team needs the kind of element that Reaves brings.

I'm sure Sullivan has done his homework on the matter, and he's well aware of how past enforcers on this team have been treated by the referees.


I figure that it is #2.
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