Cole on the block

Forum for Pittsburgh Penguins-related messages.

Moderators: Three Stars, dagny, pfim, netwolf

Cole on the block

Postby Humperdink on Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:14 am

Humperdink
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,512
Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:10 am
Location: Allegheny National Forest

Re: Cole on the block

Postby Skatingpen on Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:18 am

Interesting, he is probably one of their top 3 defenseman right now. It is not like the Pens are swimming in defensmen talent.
Skatingpen
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 7,753
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2014 6:13 pm

Re: Cole on the block

Postby penny lane on Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:32 am

Skatingpen wrote:Interesting, he is probably one of their top 3 defenseman right now. It is not like the Pens are swimming in defensmen talent.


And it's a cluster dump for Coach Sullivan who sees yes, Cole is better than a few on the ice.
It's a misstep for GMJR as it disturbs the locker room.
Last edited by penny lane on Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:52 am, edited 2 times in total.
penny lane
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 33,808
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 5:29 pm
Location: 3 peat, yeah I said it!

Re: Cole on the block

Postby albalz on Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:34 am

This seems really stupid to me. Cole at 2.1 is pretty good for the pens cap. Who did he piss off. I remember when Sullivan first came to Pittsburgh him making an example out of Cole in the first couple of games. Not quite sure why hes the whipping boy. :scared:
albalz
Junior 'A'
Junior 'A'
 
Posts: 66
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 10:09 pm

Re: Cole on the block

Postby midd on Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:38 am

I don't feel he's the whipping boy. He's an expendable asset. He's a free agent after the season. He's a solid dman that will garnish attention. Can't move Letang with his No movement clause Who else would you rather dangle out there to get a decent return for?
midd
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 635
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 3:50 pm
Location: First and First, the Nexus of the Universe

Re: Cole on the block

Postby Skatingpen on Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:48 am

midd wrote:I don't feel he's the whipping boy. He's an expendable asset. He's a free agent after the season. He's a solid dman that will garnish attention. Can't move Letang with his No movement clause Who else would you rather dangle out there to get a decent return for?



Not the point. Pens are already leaking goals who do they have even close to Cole to plug in?
Skatingpen
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 7,753
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2014 6:13 pm

Re: Cole on the block

Postby pens_CT on Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:02 am

Skatingpen wrote:
midd wrote:I don't feel he's the whipping boy. He's an expendable asset. He's a free agent after the season. He's a solid dman that will garnish attention. Can't move Letang with his No movement clause Who else would you rather dangle out there to get a decent return for?



Not the point. Pens are already leaking goals who do they have even close to Cole to plug in?


Moving Cole means there needs to be another trade to add someone on defense. Cole wouldn't be my first choice to move but obviously GMJR doesn't feel he can sign him long term. As a result it makes sense to move him since you can't keep losing assets for nothing.
pens_CT
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 4,256
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: Cole on the block

Postby pekkasteele on Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:12 am

well we have won the last 2 since he has been benched so it is not hurting us that much yet.

and yes, he is cheap now, but he won't be next year, and if it is between Cole and Hörnqvist, I extend Hörnqvist.

There is no point to trade Ruhwedel or Hunwick, they will probably not give us a good enough C that we need.

You need to give something to get something, and in this case, Cole might be the best option.
pekkasteele
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 607
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 10:30 am
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Re: Cole on the block

Postby Owchar76 on Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:17 am

penny lane wrote:
Skatingpen wrote:Interesting, he is probably one of their top 3 defenseman right now. It is not like the Pens are swimming in defensmen talent.


And it's a cluster dump for Coach Sullivan who sees yes, Cole is better than a few on the ice.
It's a misstep for GMJR as it disturbs the locker room.


Misstep? It's a business. They won't be able to re-sign Cole, he may even double his current salary. If they feel they can fleece someone in a deal that will improve other areas of the team, they're going to jump on it. Someone will probably severely overpay for Cole and the Pens are going to cash it on it if so. Is Ruhwedel as good as Cole? No. Is he serviceable? Yes. You'd rather see him walk away for free at the end of the year like Martin did?

People cry for a shakeup, yet some are upset when Cole is possibly the one selected to be moved?

Disturbs the locker room? These are professional athletes. Men. I work in an environment where it's very tightly knit, and for good reason. Usually once a year, employees get moved around and you work with different people. It doesn't disturb anything, you are mature and you figure out how to make it work and don't cry because your BFF got moved.
Owchar76
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 726
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2017 12:03 pm

Re: Cole on the block

Postby no name on Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:28 am

I see one of 2 things happening to maximize this trade. If Cole and his agent are allowed to look for a trade then it might make them find a team who is willing to sign him long term which would allow us to get a lot more in a return. The other thing would be even if an extention isn't signed then you have to put in a clause that "if said teams signs him long term at seasons end then we get a 2nd round draft choice".

Would be nice to package some people with Cole to give the team a new look and feel. This team looks tired or they just don't feel the emergency to turn things around.
Last edited by no name on Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
no name
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 7,880
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:19 pm

Re: Cole on the block

Postby Steve on Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:32 am

I would move Maatta before Cole, and I'm one of the few remaining Maatta fans on this board. Maatta does alot of things better than Cole, and has more upside, but for me it really comes down to playoff performances, and who do you trust in those key situations.

But the GM has a pretty good idea of Cole's next contract amount/term. Also, perhaps Ruhwedel has factored into this.

It just seems weird to me that they would scratch a guy for three games prior to trading him, when he really didn't deserve to be scratched otherwise. Most of the time this stuff just happens behind the scenes and no one knows about the trade until it happens.
Steve
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,649
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 10:56 am
Location: Maryland

Re: Cole on the block

Postby ShipHockey7 on Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:10 am

Mackey lists Vegas, Colorado and Toronto as the primary suitors


http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/peng ... 1711280075
ShipHockey7
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 2,322
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:27 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Re: Cole on the block

Postby pens_CT on Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:31 am

ShipHockey7 wrote:Mackey lists Vegas, Colorado and Toronto as the primary suitors


http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/peng ... 1711280075


Why does Vegas need another defensemen? They have too many already. Unless one of them is coming back to Pittsburgh as part of the deal.
pens_CT
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 4,256
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: Cole on the block

Postby pens_CT on Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:32 am

ShipHockey7 wrote:Mackey lists Vegas, Colorado and Toronto as the primary suitors


http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/peng ... 1711280075


Why does Vegas need another defensemen? They have too many already. Unless one of them is coming back to Pittsburgh as part of the deal.
pens_CT
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 4,256
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: Cole on the block

Postby Al262 on Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:39 am

Odd that GMJR announces that he is being shopped around. Pens typically haven't made those statements even though we know it is happening behind closed doors. Does it hurt the possible return value?
Al262
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:17 am

Re: Cole on the block

Postby Jim on Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:44 am

pens_CT wrote:
ShipHockey7 wrote:Mackey lists Vegas, Colorado and Toronto as the primary suitors


http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/peng ... 1711280075


Why does Vegas need another defensemen? They have too many already. Unless one of them is coming back to Pittsburgh as part of the deal.


Facts should never get in the way of a deadline...
Jim
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,066
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:18 pm
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: Cole on the block

Postby pens_CT on Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:46 am

Al262 wrote:Odd that GMJR announces that he is being shopped around. Pens typically haven't made those statements even though we know it is happening behind closed doors. Does it hurt the possible return value?


Well they mentioned multiple teams were interested in Cole, so long as you have more than one team in play it shouldn't hurt his value, especially if his agent is able to work out a long term contract with the team.
pens_CT
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 4,256
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: Cole on the block

Postby Defence21 on Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:49 am

Skatingpen wrote:
midd wrote:I don't feel he's the whipping boy. He's an expendable asset. He's a free agent after the season. He's a solid dman that will garnish attention. Can't move Letang with his No movement clause Who else would you rather dangle out there to get a decent return for?



Not the point. Pens are already leaking goals who do they have even close to Cole to plug in?

So, you hear that Cole is being shopped, and you assume GMJR -- the guy who just built back-to-back Cup Champions -- has forgotten the need for defense? Come on. Cole being shopped will result in a third line center coming back to Pittsburgh, possibly with another defenseman. If not, another trade will be made to upgrade the defense. It might not happen immediately, but it will happen. Haven't these guys built up enough of a resume to be given even a small benefit of the doubt?
Defence21
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 4,494
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:01 pm
Location: Johnstown, PA

Re: Cole on the block

Postby RisslingsMissingTeeth on Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:53 am

Steve wrote:I would move Maatta before Cole, and I'm one of the few remaining Maatta fans on this board. Maatta does alot of things better than Cole, and has more upside, but for me it really comes down to playoff performances, and who do you trust in those key situations.


With where things stand right now, you are saying you would trade our best D (young and only getting better every year) over a maxed out 28yr old Cole? Eesh. Maatta is our best break out passing D. Has a shot that rivals Schultz. Plays PP and PK. I could go on and on. smh.
RisslingsMissingTeeth
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,170
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:19 pm

Re: Cole on the block

Postby Defence21 on Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:54 am

Steve wrote:I would move Maatta before Cole, and I'm one of the few remaining Maatta fans on this board. Maatta does alot of things better than Cole, and has more upside, but for me it really comes down to playoff performances, and who do you trust in those key situations.

But the GM has a pretty good idea of Cole's next contract amount/term. Also, perhaps Ruhwedel has factored into this.

It just seems weird to me that they would scratch a guy for three games prior to trading him, when he really didn't deserve to be scratched otherwise. Most of the time this stuff just happens behind the scenes and no one knows about the trade until it happens.

Your second graph nails it. I'm sure GMJR has a feel for what Cole and his agent are looking for in term/dollars on his next deal and understand that he's either not worth it, or the team just can't afford him. If we're comparing Cole and Maatta, I still go with Maatta, due to age. The kid has gone through major injuries and cancer, and is still of the age where most defenseman break into the league. He's still developing, and I think, with the right partner, he'll be a good long-term asset.

As for your last part, the book on Cole is out. He's a heart-and-sole kind of guy. He blocks every shot he can. He's physical. He skates well. He makes a good first pass. He's not a black hole on offense. He kills penalties with the best of them. He was a significant defender on back-to-back Champs. He's a leader. Not playing him won't decrease his value. Playing him and risk a broken bone blocking a shot could put a major hit on a trade. If a trade is imminent -- within a week -- why not bench him?
Defence21
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 4,494
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:01 pm
Location: Johnstown, PA

Re: Cole on the block

Postby Defence21 on Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:57 am

Al262 wrote:Odd that GMJR announces that he is being shopped around. Pens typically haven't made those statements even though we know it is happening behind closed doors. Does it hurt the possible return value?

I don't see that he made any kind of announcement or confirmation. These reporters got the scoop from someone inside the team, but not from the GM...at least on the record.
Defence21
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 4,494
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:01 pm
Location: Johnstown, PA

Re: Cole on the block

Postby FLPensFan on Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:58 am

Jim wrote:
pens_CT wrote:
ShipHockey7 wrote:Mackey lists Vegas, Colorado and Toronto as the primary suitors


http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/peng ... 1711280075


Why does Vegas need another defensemen? They have too many already. Unless one of them is coming back to Pittsburgh as part of the deal.


Facts should never get in the way of a deadline...

There is having defensemen, having GOOD defensemen, and having defensemen signed beyond this year. Only Schmidt and Brad Hunt are signed beyond this year. Merrill, Miller, and Theodore are all RFAs. Sbisa, Stoner, McNabb, and Engelland are all UFA. Stoner and Sbisa are hurt quite often. I wouldn't doubt if McPhee walked away from those 2 at the end of the year. Cole>>>McNabb. Cole is also probably better than Merrill and Miller, but that is certainly subjective.

If the Penguins traded with Vegas, I'd be looking at Cole for Erik Haula. Maybe you add a pick or a young B/C prospect and get a guy like Miller or Merrill back in the deal.
If the Penguns traded with Toronto, I would have to assume it would be for Bozak.
If the Penguins traded with Colorado, I'd have to think it would be for Landeskog, even though he is suspended. Hagelin would have to be included for cap purposes, as well as a pick or high prospect. There isn't much else I would want off of Colorado's roster.

I still think Dallas, Buffalo, Edmonton, and Florida could be in the mix as well. TIOPS mentioned Boston had interest in Cole over the summer.
FLPensFan
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 8,715
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:30 pm
Location: South Florida @RandomHockeyGuy

Re: Cole on the block

Postby Defence21 on Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:59 am

Jim wrote:
pens_CT wrote:
ShipHockey7 wrote:Mackey lists Vegas, Colorado and Toronto as the primary suitors


http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/peng ... 1711280075


Why does Vegas need another defensemen? They have too many already. Unless one of them is coming back to Pittsburgh as part of the deal.


Facts should never get in the way of a deadline...

I agree it is unlikely, but maybe it's part of a larger deal with Cole, Hagelin, and another player or pick going to Vegas for two defenders and a forward? Seems unlikely, though.

Colorado makes some sense, but I don't know who they have at center that would be attractive. Landeskog is a winger, correct? Toronto has Bozak and Komarov. I'd take either/both.
Defence21
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 4,494
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:01 pm
Location: Johnstown, PA

Re: Cole on the block

Postby TBS58 on Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:03 am

This seems that it was an obvious leak from the Penguins brass. As for why, I have no idea.
TBS58
Junior 'A'
Junior 'A'
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 7:57 am

Re: Cole on the block

Postby FLPensFan on Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:25 am

Sam Reinhart and Chad Johnson for Cole and 2nd round, and some other prospect. Do it GMJR!!!!
FLPensFan
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 8,715
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:30 pm
Location: South Florida @RandomHockeyGuy

Next

Return to Pittsburgh Penguins

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: djlm and 38 guests


e-mail