The search for the elusive 3C thread!

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Re: The search for the elusive 3C thread!

Postby Steve Dave on Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:33 am

Pruezy11881 wrote:
Steve Dave wrote:
Jim wrote:
Steve Dave wrote:It could work cap wise if Dallas retained $3.5 of Spezza’s contract if sending Hagelin. Would adding Cole ($2.1, UFA) entice Dallas, while sending Roussel ($2.0, UFA) back to even out the cap?

Spezza ($4.0) Roussel = $6.0 coming in
Hagelin Cole = $6.1 going out


If you can get Dallas to do this, I say go for it.

I think Hagelin would do well under Hitch as Longtimefan pointed out. Cole would also be of use for them. A pick/prospect may have to be added since they would be retaining $.

I think Cole would be a no go based on how Hitch used (didn't use) him in St. Louis.

Forgot about that.
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Re: The search for the elusive 3C thread!

Postby FLPensFan on Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:34 am

Did a little more research on Spezza:

--According to Micah McCurdy (hockey analytics guy), Spezza has been given 4th line minutes, and is putting up scoring rates at 4th line levels, but is putting up elite level shot rates and goal rates. Translation, if you are playing him with crap players on the 4th line, what else do you expect. Underlying numbers show he is producing for where he is playing. If Dallas wants more out of the player, give him better linemates and more ice time.

---Spezza's ice time was reduced from game 1. Last year, he averaged 16:10 TOI per game. He's played 15 minutes or above only 8 times this season. In the first 15 games of the season, he had less than 13 minutes of ice time 8 times.

---Hitchcock says Spezza will be in next game. Says they have talked a lot, had multiple discussions, but got to the point where talks weren't improving his play. He needs to be better and sitting out is his chance to reset. GM Nill supported the decision, and somewhat echoed Hitchcock.

---Looking at some fan reaction, seem to support Micah McCurdy narrative that Dallas is sticking him with crap players and expecting Spezza to still play at a high rate AND elevate crap players into stars. Seen some comments Spezza doesn't fit well in Hitchcock's system. Lots of fans saying Dallas is married to Hanzal, who has been crap for them.

General outlook, based on research so far, is that Spezza is being badly misused in Dallas.
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Re: The search for the elusive 3C thread!

Postby Jim on Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:51 am

I just see the suggested trade as...

Looking contract wise:
$4M Hagelin vs $4M Spezza: Medium win for the Pens. Spezza fixes the 3C problem. Yes, Spezza is not the 30 goal Spezza of yore, but that is why he is 3C as opposed to the 1C of yore. If he has actual chemistry with Kessel it would be a huge win for the Pens. Either way, moving on bad 1.5 year $4M contract for another is a wash at worst, but you filled the problem 3C spot.
$2.1M Cole for $2M Roussel: Wash. Both UFAs at the end of the season. Pens lose D depth by moving their apparent #7 Dman. This does make Ruhwedel your #7 Dman again, and some WBS scrub your #8, which is an ouch. But that only matters if there are multiple injuries. Roussel would fill in the exact spot opened by Hagelin leaving.

Looking roster spot wise:
Hagelin for Roussel: Wash. Hagelin is fast, but has rather clearly been slipping here in this system/team. Roussel could end up adding more offense in this system/team. Meh LW for meh LW.
Cole for Spezza: Win for the Pens. Lose depth D to gain a solid 3C, potentially the Pens only real hole at the moment.
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Re: The search for the elusive 3C thread!

Postby murphydump55 on Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:28 pm

Jim wrote:I just see the suggested trade as...

Looking contract wise:
$4M Hagelin vs $4M Spezza: Medium win for the Pens. Spezza fixes the 3C problem. Yes, Spezza is not the 30 goal Spezza of yore, but that is why he is 3C as opposed to the 1C of yore. If he has actual chemistry with Kessel it would be a huge win for the Pens. Either way, moving on bad 1.5 year $4M contract for another is a wash at worst, but you filled the problem 3C spot.
$2.1M Cole for $2M Roussel: Wash. Both UFAs at the end of the season. Pens lose D depth by moving their apparent #7 Dman. This does make Ruhwedel your #7 Dman again, and some WBS scrub your #8, which is an ouch. But that only matters if there are multiple injuries. Roussel would fill in the exact spot opened by Hagelin leaving.

Looking roster spot wise:
Hagelin for Roussel: Wash. Hagelin is fast, but has rather clearly been slipping here in this system/team. Roussel could end up adding more offense in this system/team. Meh LW for meh LW.
Cole for Spezza: Win for the Pens. Lose depth D to gain a solid 3C, potentially the Pens only real hole at the moment.


I wouldn't hate that.
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Re: The search for the elusive 3C thread!

Postby pekkasteele on Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:28 pm

Hags might have some value for some team, I don't know the caphits and speed of other playoff bound team, but all teams want to get faster, and there might be some team that needs his speed, and are not close to the cap so the salary might not be an issue really. He is basically the same player now as when we got him, and we had great use for him in the beginning at least.

Everyone wants to get faster now.
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Re: The search for the elusive 3C thread!

Postby sjnhiils on Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:38 pm

Jim wrote:I just see the suggested trade as...

Looking contract wise:
$4M Hagelin vs $4M Spezza: Medium win for the Pens. Spezza fixes the 3C problem. Yes, Spezza is not the 30 goal Spezza of yore, but that is why he is 3C as opposed to the 1C of yore. If he has actual chemistry with Kessel it would be a huge win for the Pens. Either way, moving on bad 1.5 year $4M contract for another is a wash at worst, but you filled the problem 3C spot.
$2.1M Cole for $2M Roussel: Wash. Both UFAs at the end of the season. Pens lose D depth by moving their apparent #7 Dman. This does make Ruhwedel your #7 Dman again, and some WBS scrub your #8, which is an ouch. But that only matters if there are multiple injuries. Roussel would fill in the exact spot opened by Hagelin leaving.

Looking roster spot wise:
Hagelin for Roussel: Wash. Hagelin is fast, but has rather clearly been slipping here in this system/team. Roussel could end up adding more offense in this system/team. Meh LW for meh LW.
Cole for Spezza: Win for the Pens. Lose depth D to gain a solid 3C, potentially the Pens only real hole at the moment.

Wouldn't mind Spezza either but with Cullen, Daley, Wilson and Archibald gone from last years roster, I think the Pens have lost enough speed already. True Hagelin is not finishing like he needs to but he has been effective on the forecheck and adds an element that others cannot.
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Re: The search for the elusive 3C thread!

Postby ville5 on Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:58 pm

I think Roussel might take a few too many penalties for Sully's liking.
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