Kessel vs Sprong (vs Hornqvist)

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Kessel vs Sprong (vs Hornqvist)

Postby netwolf on Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:12 pm

From Jason Mackey's latest 20 Thoughts at http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/peng ... 1801080105

13. Here’s an interesting wrinkle: What if Sprong is for real? You probably don’t need him and Phil Kessel — similar players, which we’ll get to — on your team. Kessel could well be coming off a career-best year, meaning the Penguins could sell high.

If the Penguins were interested in moving Kessel, and felt like they could proceed with Sprong providing a much cheaper replacement, it’s hard to see Hornqvist going anywhere. The money then becomes available. Pay him market rate and let him retire here.


This is the second time I've seen this thought advanced, and it runs so counter to my own thoughts, I wanted to see what others thought.

My first reaction to "you probably don't need both" was yeah, who needs two 30 snipers on the same team? :roll: Seriously, why WOULDN'T you want to keep both? The next best RW is Patric Hornqvist, and his next contract makes me nervous. He's a 31 year-old pending UFA and he seems exactly like the kind of player GMs would overpay based on past performance. If they could re-up him for 2 years at a decent number, great, but I don't see why he'd go for it. Three years wouldn't be bad, but I'm sure he could get more on the open market. No clue what the front office thinks, and I'm sure they'd like to have all three, but if Sprong is for real and I have to pick between Kessel/Sprong or Sprong/Hornqvist, I thank 72 for what he's done, let him walk and don't think twice.
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Re: Kessel vs Sprong (vs Hornqvist)

Postby Durbano on Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:24 pm

Agreed. I'd hate to see Hornqvist go, but I don't think the Pens can afford to lose Kessel.

Maybe the cap will go up a lot (as speculated) and all three remain in the fold.
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Re: Kessel vs Sprong (vs Hornqvist)

Postby Puck-Lurker on Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:56 pm

Make a play to keep all three.

We have Kessel for four more years. I don't predict a drop-off in the next two years. Guy's a key component, don't trade unless you're willing to deal guys like Malkin and Crosby.

We have Hörnqvist for the rest of the season, he hits UFA after. He's a 40-50 point guy, even I forget that sometimes. He brings some serious competitiveness to the table. Can't say how much I sometimes dislike his gritty, grind, just chip it into the corner and go after it sloooowly plays. But there's his garbage goals and his antagonising ways against goaltenders and anyone not wishin the Penguins well. But he's going to be UFA. He'll cost. Intangibles like leadership and grit, plus those 50 games a season (even now, he's on pace). Someone will pay him 6-7M or give him a lot of term. I'd sooner pay Hörnqvist more than we should for a short term contract, than give him one with term.

Sprong? Unconfirmed as of yet what we've got. Think people in management circles are coming around and will stop short of sending him down again. He's got a shot and skating and less downside than projected so far. Turns RFA after this season. Don't think Sprong is looking to go anywhere. Pens kept him around, called him back up, gave him a chance to succeed, put him with Sid. He knows what that did for guys like Sheary and Guentzel. A nominal raise with short term (same'ish money, 1 year, 1 way) or a slightly bigger investment with term would be interesting as well.

Don't sell off Kessel until you can confirm Sprong will fill his shoes. I personally think Daniel's of a smaller calibre. That might open up cap space though for upgrades elsewhere, but I'd prefer to have both. A lot. I'd get other players replaced instead.
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Re: Kessel vs Sprong (vs Hornqvist)

Postby lemieuxReturns on Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:43 pm

What was the bit about Malkin?
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Re: Kessel vs Sprong (vs Hornqvist)

Postby ville5 on Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:56 pm

lemieuxReturns wrote:What was the bit about Malkin?

16. Hope Malkin is OK.

He didn’t talk after Sunday’s win, when he scored two goals, including the overtime winner. That’s unlike Malkin or the Penguins.

His equipment was scattered in front of his stall — normally it’s put away — and as reporters gathered around, Kris Letang yelled out, “Something happened” and informed us that Malkin would not be talking.

Was certainly strange, but it also doesn’t mean anything serious. We’ll see.
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Re: Kessel vs Sprong (vs Hornqvist)

Postby sjnhiils on Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:19 pm

Kessel had 47 assists last year and is on a pace to better that this year. Sprong might be a good goal scorer in the future but I don't see him matching Kessel's playmaking ability nor his patience with the puck.
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Re: Kessel vs Sprong (vs Hornqvist)

Postby Rylan on Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:23 pm

ville5 wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:What was the bit about Malkin?

16. Hope Malkin is OK.

He didn’t talk after Sunday’s win, when he scored two goals, including the overtime winner. That’s unlike Malkin or the Penguins.

His equipment was scattered in front of his stall — normally it’s put away — and as reporters gathered around, Kris Letang yelled out, “Something happened” and informed us that Malkin would not be talking.

Was certainly strange, but it also doesn’t mean anything serious. We’ll see.


That is really ominous...
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Re: Kessel vs Sprong (vs Hornqvist)

Postby Humperdink on Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:43 pm

ville5 wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:What was the bit about Malkin?

16. Hope Malkin is OK.

He didn’t talk after Sunday’s win, when he scored two goals, including the overtime winner. That’s unlike Malkin or the Penguins.

His equipment was scattered in front of his stall — normally it’s put away — and as reporters gathered around, Kris Letang yelled out, “Something happened” and informed us that Malkin would not be talking.

Was certainly strange, but it also doesn’t mean anything serious. We’ll see.


Malkin was interviewed at length by Andy Brickley on the bench after the game.
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Re: Kessel vs Sprong (vs Hornqvist)

Postby Pitts on Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:16 pm

Durbano wrote:Agreed. I'd hate to see Hornqvist go, but I don't think the Pens can afford to lose Kessel.

Maybe the cap will go up a lot (as speculated) and all three remain in the fold.

Rumor is the cap might increase much more than most expect next season. I wait to see what that is, then worry about it. If they can keep all three, Hornqvist is great to have around since he can currently work on any line. I really don't think the Pens have interest in moving Kessel yet. He'll be staying for at least another season or two.
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Re: Kessel vs Sprong (vs Hornqvist)

Postby lemieuxReturns on Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:42 pm

Pitts wrote:
Durbano wrote:Agreed. I'd hate to see Hornqvist go, but I don't think the Pens can afford to lose Kessel.

Maybe the cap will go up a lot (as speculated) and all three remain in the fold.

Rumor is the cap might increase much more than most expect next season. I wait to see what that is, then worry about it. If they can keep all three, Hornqvist is great to have around since he can currently work on any line. I really don't think the Pens have interest in moving Kessel yet. He'll be staying for at least another season or two.


78-82 million
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Re: Kessel vs Sprong (vs Hornqvist)

Postby lemieuxReturns on Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:42 pm

Pitts wrote:
Durbano wrote:Agreed. I'd hate to see Hornqvist go, but I don't think the Pens can afford to lose Kessel.

Maybe the cap will go up a lot (as speculated) and all three remain in the fold.

Rumor is the cap might increase much more than most expect next season. I wait to see what that is, then worry about it. If they can keep all three, Hornqvist is great to have around since he can currently work on any line. I really don't think the Pens have interest in moving Kessel yet. He'll be staying for at least another season or two.


78-82 million
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Re: Kessel vs Sprong (vs Hornqvist)

Postby Maestro on Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:10 am

Kessel and Sprong stay.
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Re: Kessel vs Sprong (vs Hornqvist)

Postby FLPensFan on Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:38 am

netwolf wrote:From Jason Mackey's latest 20 Thoughts at http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/peng ... 1801080105

13. Here’s an interesting wrinkle: What if Sprong is for real? You probably don’t need him and Phil Kessel — similar players, which we’ll get to — on your team. Kessel could well be coming off a career-best year, meaning the Penguins could sell high.

If the Penguins were interested in moving Kessel, and felt like they could proceed with Sprong providing a much cheaper replacement, it’s hard to see Hornqvist going anywhere. The money then becomes available. Pay him market rate and let him retire here.


This is the second time I've seen this thought advanced, and it runs so counter to my own thoughts, I wanted to see what others thought.

My first reaction to "you probably don't need both" was yeah, who needs two 30 snipers on the same team? :roll: Seriously, why WOULDN'T you want to keep both? The next best RW is Patric Hornqvist, and his next contract makes me nervous. He's a 31 year-old pending UFA and he seems exactly like the kind of player GMs would overpay based on past performance. If they could re-up him for 2 years at a decent number, great, but I don't see why he'd go for it. Three years wouldn't be bad, but I'm sure he could get more on the open market. No clue what the front office thinks, and I'm sure they'd like to have all three, but if Sprong is for real and I have to pick between Kessel/Sprong or Sprong/Hornqvist, I thank 72 for what he's done, let him walk and don't think twice.

Before Sprong was called up, I might have agreed with Mackey on this. It's not the goal scoring part that was a concern (at least for me), rather, could Sullivan make it work having two guys who aren't going to help you much on the defensive side.

After seeing Sprong so far, I would very much change my thinking, and say Sprong and Kessel can coexist together. Sprong has been a much, much better defensive player than management advertised. I have heard some who follow WBS closely say it is a rather new development, but Sprong has definitely improved his defensive play in the past several weeks. Might have been the benching he got a few weeks ago. Nonetheless, he is adequate defensively from what I have seen so far, and would even venture to say he's a bit more rounded (no pun intended) than Phil. Sprong has made strong efforts to come back and play defense, and even uses the body a bit more than I expected.
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Re: Kessel vs Sprong (vs Hornqvist)

Postby FLPensFan on Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:44 am

lemieuxReturns wrote:
Pitts wrote:
Durbano wrote:Agreed. I'd hate to see Hornqvist go, but I don't think the Pens can afford to lose Kessel.

Maybe the cap will go up a lot (as speculated) and all three remain in the fold.

Rumor is the cap might increase much more than most expect next season. I wait to see what that is, then worry about it. If they can keep all three, Hornqvist is great to have around since he can currently work on any line. I really don't think the Pens have interest in moving Kessel yet. He'll be staying for at least another season or two.


78-82 million

I would say expect the low end of the number. There was an article from BSN Denver a week ago, stating the books had just been closed out for the 2015-2016 season, and the players lost 14% of their salaries for that season. 17% of salaries were put into escrow, and they only got 3% of it back. This was the season where the Canadian dollar really tanked, so the NHL revenues were down.

The article went on to say the players are furious, and "this will be the hill the players die on," meaning they are not going to relent on this when it comes time to renegotiate the CBA. I believe they can opt out of the CBA after next season.

I expect the players to put as little into escrow as possible each year from here on out until the CBA is redone. Less in escrow will likely keep the cap from rising as high.
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Re: Kessel vs Sprong (vs Hornqvist)

Postby Jim on Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:39 am

Kessel is working on 12 seasons of experience and proven track record. Sprong is working on 23 games experiance and no track record. It is literally asinine to suggest moving Kessel because you have Sprong. I honestly wonder if these writers laugh to themselves after they write something thinking about how the readers will react. "Ah, this will get them going"

I have been one of Hornqvist's biggest supporters since the moment the trade was announced. However, I just don't see the Pens having space for him with his contract coming up. As was said, he will be going for term and other teams will offer a bigger cap hit... the Pens can't afford the term and hit combo.
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Re: Kessel vs Sprong (vs Hornqvist)

Postby Mango Salsa on Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:41 am

For all of the talk about Sprong's defensive deficiencies, he's light years ahead of Phil in that department.
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Re: Kessel vs Sprong (vs Hornqvist)

Postby Jim on Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:15 am

Sprong is currently giving 120% in order to try to stay here. It will take much more than 5 games to see what he will be. He could easily end up being an Alex Daigle, or easily end up being a Phil Kessel.
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Re: Kessel vs Sprong (vs Hornqvist)

Postby IntangibleBeer on Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:15 am

Sprong's done well, but it's too early to tell how he will pan out.

I basically want to keep all three. Bring up some WBS cheap talent and jettison Hagelin and some other smaller contracts if necessary to make the cap.
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Re: Kessel vs Sprong (vs Hornqvist)

Postby pekkasteele on Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:53 am

I would like to keep all 3, but, also, trade one of them brings something back, and trading Kessel bring back something better than trading Sprong or Hörnqvist, and that would maybe make a trade with him involved better, but, it all depends on the return off course. And, I don't think that if we WOULD trade Kessel, it would not be due to how Sprong plays this year.
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