2018 Trade Rumors (Deadline Day talk starts page 103)

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Re: 2018 Trade Rumors Section

Postby RentedMule66 on Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:35 pm

Don't both Sedins have a big cap hit? Not sure how we would fit both of those guys in.....we would have to send quite a few players the other way. But word is neither wants to leave so it's a moot point.
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Re: 2018 Trade Rumors Section

Postby ville5 on Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:17 pm

Jim wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:How would people feel if the Penguins packaged Cole and Guentzel together to get a young 3C and a pick? I'm talking a better, higher caliber young 3C.

Faksa, Anthanasiou, Nelson, Galchenyuk, Haula, or Strome. If any of these teams were willing to give up these centers and a 2nd/3rd for Cole and Guentzel, would you do it?


I think that everyone should always be on the block... it all depends on the return.

Guentzel has a chance of being one of those big time players that a team drafted and plays well past expectations. He has 30 goals and 57 points in 88 NHL games. It can be argued that that is because of Crosby... but the Pens have Crosby so it still works. One more year at $734K. That young 3C coming in better be a high end guy, not a Bonino nor a Sutter type.

No way. Like Jim said, Jake has 30 goals in a little over a season's worth of games. We have one other winger who can put up 30 in a season. And he costs 6 million, Jake costs less than a mil. You can't give that up for a 3C. Especially when you should be able to acquire one for less.
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Re: 2018 Trade Rumors Section

Postby FLPensFan on Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:47 pm

ville5 wrote:
Jim wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:How would people feel if the Penguins packaged Cole and Guentzel together to get a young 3C and a pick? I'm talking a better, higher caliber young 3C.

Faksa, Anthanasiou, Nelson, Galchenyuk, Haula, or Strome. If any of these teams were willing to give up these centers and a 2nd/3rd for Cole and Guentzel, would you do it?


I think that everyone should always be on the block... it all depends on the return.

Guentzel has a chance of being one of those big time players that a team drafted and plays well past expectations. He has 30 goals and 57 points in 88 NHL games. It can be argued that that is because of Crosby... but the Pens have Crosby so it still works. One more year at $734K. That young 3C coming in better be a high end guy, not a Bonino nor a Sutter type.

No way. Like Jim said, Jake has 30 goals in a little over a season's worth of games. We have one other winger who can put up 30 in a season. And he costs 6 million, Jake costs less than a mil. You can't give that up for a 3C. Especially when you should be able to acquire one for less.

How many 30 goal seasons does he have on his resume? How many 20 goal seasons does he have? I get it, you project out his totals and you got that, but that's a dangerous thing to do. I'm a firm believe in "show me you can do it more than once." Very much against giving a guy a big contract or overvaluing a player who has had one good year.

Both Guentzel and Sheary's production this year has essentially been cut in half. Guentzel was a .89 points/game player last year....this year he is at .5. Sheary was .87 points/game last year. This year he's at .35. Sheary is getting about 1 minute less ice time per game, while Guentzel is getting just 59 seconds more ice time per game. Overvaluing these guys right now based on one solid half season is how you get guys with Carl Hagelin type deals. It's the same reason I look on in dismay when people start talking about Evander Kane and a contract paying him anywhere from 6M to over 7M a season. The guy had one 50 point season 7 years ago. He's been average since then, never above 50 points a season until this year, where he is on pace or 60-70 points. Okposo is struggling this year, but, he got a 6M 7 year deal 2 years ago. His numbers prior to getting that contract were 61 points, 59 points, 69 points. How you give Kane more than Okposo is mind boggling to me, unless you are a very dumb or desperate GM.

For the record, I don't want to trade Guentzel. But I also know that this team desperately needs a 3C, and if I am another team's GM, I value Guentzel being 2.2M cheaper than Sheary and at that cost for another year. Unfortunately, that might be the type of move the Penguins need to make. The market is either very thin for 3C, or the price is very high. If they can't get anyone decent, they'll limp into the playoffs and won't make it very far. I don't know if that is acceptable to Rutherford, or ownership.
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Re: 2018 Trade Rumors Section

Postby mayday56 on Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:06 pm

How much longer do Sid and Geno have at the elite level ? We need to do something now...this year...not in July or anytime building for next year or the year after. mortgage the farm....... 3 peat!!!! Go for broke. No balls no blue chips...all we have to do is get in the playoffs it doesnt matter if we are the 8 seed or the 1st.....So to realistically make the cup run we will need at the minimum a 3C. If it takes Jake or Conner or both we have to do it. period!
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Re: 2018 Trade Rumors Section

Postby lemieuxReturns on Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:34 pm

Scratch nuge off the list
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Re: 2018 Trade Rumors Section

Postby lemieuxReturns on Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:42 pm

One thing I find interesting is JR’s supposed interest in Kane. Yet Jason B seems to be super eager to get rid of him in Buffalo? Wonder why these two would seem to have the exact opposite approach. Why not re-sign him in buffalo?
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Re: 2018 Trade Rumors Section

Postby FLPensFan on Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:08 pm

lemieuxReturns wrote:One thing I find interesting is JR’s supposed interest in Kane. Yet Jason B seems to be super eager to get rid of him in Buffalo? Wonder why these two would seem to have the exact opposite approach. Why not re-sign him in buffalo?

The supposed issue is that people think Kane is going to demand 7M plus a season. If you look at Buffalo's roster today, Eichel gets 10M starting next year, O'Reilly is 7.5M, Okposo is 6M, and Pominville is 5.6M. Kane makes 5.25M. After those 5, none of their other forwards make over 2M a season. Dumping 6-7M into Kane is probably not worth it when they could get 2-3 players that might help them more.

The fact that Rutherford is rumored to be looking into it tells me he is ok with the off-ice stuff. I mentioned before, I've seen Yohe and Mackey make comments that Kane isn't good in the locker room, and yet, when I asked them for specific interactions they have had with Kane over the years, they can't give me anything of substance. Yes, he definitely had off-ice issues in the past, and was immature in the past. But I have yet to find a legitimate issue with Kane in the past season or two. Closest thing is the dust up in practice where Falk and Kane got into it, and Falk yelled at Kane that he was selfish.
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Re: 2018 Trade Rumors Section

Postby OKpensfan247 on Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:14 pm

Steve Dave wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:From Dan Kingerski last night:

There were several scouts in attendance for this contest. An interesting development is the following from Chicago. Scouts from the Blackhawks have been in attendance for at least 3 of the Penguins last four games.
Others to note are Ottawa, Toronto, and Dallas. Scouts from the Stars also attended last Sunday’s game against the New York Rangers.

Perhaps a deal centered around Cole/Sheary for Anisimov+?


Anisimov would be incredible. I would be surprised though after reading how highly coach Quenneville and Bowman claimed they valued him when he signed his recent deal and they thought he was a key piece.

I don't think Chicago has much center depth either do they?
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Re: 2018 Trade Rumors Section

Postby FLPensFan on Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:02 pm

TIOPS claiming Penguins are making a hard push to get Mark Letestu. Says they feel his hockey IQ is very high and the he would be able to feed pucks to Kessel. Kind of a Bozak lite.

I don't see it. Again, I was all for a Letestu acquisition earlier in the season.....before Sheahan.....as a 4C option. This is TIOPS, so this info is only marginal upgraded over Eklund, but the only way I am OK with getting Letestu is if a high impact LW (Kane, Hoffman, etc) is brought in,meaning, they decided to spend the assets on the LW rather than 3C Even then, I still question whether Letestu can generate enough offense, which is the current problem with the 3C spot. It's glaringly obvious 3C is the major need above all else. You also have to wonder with RNH out, if Edmonton is going to rely a bit heavier on Letestu.
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Re: 2018 Trade Rumors Section

Postby FLPensFan on Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:07 pm

Dreger also says the price on Kane is a bit of a moving target. From what Dreger says, Botteril is aware of what teams have to offer, who has more prospects, etc......so for some teams, he is asking for a 1st, roster player, prospect, and conditional pick. For other teams that may not have the depth in assets, he is asking for a 1st, prospect, and conditional pick. He's shifting the price depending on what team he is dealing with.
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Re: 2018 Trade Rumors Section

Postby Jim on Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:28 pm

No more waste on more 4Cs.
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Re: 2018 Trade Rumors Section

Postby Henry Hank on Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:14 pm

I wouldn't be entirely against getting Letestu. He's sort of a nice player, kind of a special teams specialist. The reality is they simply only have three legit centers right now. He's a huge upgrade over Sheahan. The problem is that Sheahan and Letestu in whatever order are average at best as your third/fourth line center whereas it would really be nice to be above that- as they were with Bonino/Cullen. If they can find a good 3C I think they'd have that in ???/Sheahan.
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Re: 2018 Trade Rumors Section

Postby ville5 on Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:19 am

FLPensFan wrote:
ville5 wrote:
Jim wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:How would people feel if the Penguins packaged Cole and Guentzel together to get a young 3C and a pick? I'm talking a better, higher caliber young 3C.

Faksa, Anthanasiou, Nelson, Galchenyuk, Haula, or Strome. If any of these teams were willing to give up these centers and a 2nd/3rd for Cole and Guentzel, would you do it?


I think that everyone should always be on the block... it all depends on the return.

Guentzel has a chance of being one of those big time players that a team drafted and plays well past expectations. He has 30 goals and 57 points in 88 NHL games. It can be argued that that is because of Crosby... but the Pens have Crosby so it still works. One more year at $734K. That young 3C coming in better be a high end guy, not a Bonino nor a Sutter type.

No way. Like Jim said, Jake has 30 goals in a little over a season's worth of games. We have one other winger who can put up 30 in a season. And he costs 6 million, Jake costs less than a mil. You can't give that up for a 3C. Especially when you should be able to acquire one for less.

How many 30 goal seasons does he have on his resume? How many 20 goal seasons does he have? I get it, you project out his totals and you got that, but that's a dangerous thing to do. I'm a firm believe in "show me you can do it more than once." Very much against giving a guy a big contract or overvaluing a player who has had one good year.

Both Guentzel and Sheary's production this year has essentially been cut in half. Guentzel was a .89 points/game player last year....this year he is at .5. Sheary was .87 points/game last year. This year he's at .35. Sheary is getting about 1 minute less ice time per game, while Guentzel is getting just 59 seconds more ice time per game. Overvaluing these guys right now based on one solid half season is how you get guys with Carl Hagelin type deals. It's the same reason I look on in dismay when people start talking about Evander Kane and a contract paying him anywhere from 6M to over 7M a season. The guy had one 50 point season 7 years ago. He's been average since then, never above 50 points a season until this year, where he is on pace or 60-70 points. Okposo is struggling this year, but, he got a 6M 7 year deal 2 years ago. His numbers prior to getting that contract were 61 points, 59 points, 69 points. How you give Kane more than Okposo is mind boggling to me, unless you are a very dumb or desperate GM.

For the record, I don't want to trade Guentzel. But I also know that this team desperately needs a 3C, and if I am another team's GM, I value Guentzel being 2.2M cheaper than Sheary and at that cost for another year. Unfortunately, that might be the type of move the Penguins need to make. The market is either very thin for 3C, or the price is very high. If they can't get anyone decent, they'll limp into the playoffs and won't make it very far. I don't know if that is acceptable to Rutherford, or ownership.

Of the 6 listed players, only one has a career point per game average at or above the .5 Jake has dropped to in his second season. Galchenyuk. The rest have reached that plateau only once or a couple of times.
Id probably consider Jake for Galchenyuk, but I believe most of his time has been at 2LW. Then there's the cap difference.
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Re: 2018 Trade Rumors Section

Postby Mad City Mike on Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:59 am

DelPen wrote:The Sedin’s with a Kessel would be an amazing third line. But I’m not sure if it’s worth what it would probably take to get them.


I dunno. it would be the softest line ever, and nobody would ever win a puck battle.
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Re: 2018 Trade Rumors Section

Postby FLPensFan on Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:18 pm

Speaking of the Sedin's, this came from my Canucks friend today:

Agent J.P Barry on the Sedin twins future :"Initially we were going to talk at the end of the year but I'm sure some discussions will take place before the trading deadline." Could a Sedin trade be possible?
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Re: 2018 Trade Rumors Section

Postby OKpensfan247 on Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:37 pm

So our most likely trade chip appears to be Cole.

Can anyone please remind me what a #5 LHD goes for?

Could we get a second rounder for Cole?

Just trying to understand what CHI, EDM, TOR, etc could possibly deal to us in picks if they are unwilling to deal players to us. In theory we could then possibly package picks to another team for a 3C.
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Re: 2018 Trade Rumors Section

Postby FLPensFan on Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:48 pm

OKpensfan247 wrote:So our most likely trade chip appears to be Cole.

Can anyone please remind me what a #5 LHD goes for?

Could we get a second rounder for Cole?

Just trying to understand what CHI, EDM, TOR, etc could possibly deal to us in picks if they are unwilling to deal players to us. In theory we could then possibly package picks to another team for a 3C.

As a UFA defenseman, Cole should be able to fetch a 2nd rounder. Could get knocked down to a 3rd but, with some of the other names out there on the defense market (Jack Johnson, Paul Martin, Mike Green, etc), Cole should have some extra value in that he is cheap. He is an above average 3rd pairing defenseman. We all know he has the ability to be a #4 if needed as well.

One would have to believe, based on talk about a month ago, that Rutherford has given Cole's agent permission to discuss terms with other teams, likely stating if you can work out a deal for a 2nd round pick, or X type of prospect/player, we can make a deal......and if you are able to work out the framework of an extension with another team, we are going to need pieces X and Y.

It really sounds like Bozak is the desired piece, but also seems like Toronto has soured on trading him. They'd rather keep him and have him help their playoff run rather than trade him at this point. That still could change, but Cole and a 3rd/4th for Bozak and maybe 25% retained would be fair.
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Re: 2018 Trade Rumors Section

Postby OKpensfan247 on Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:22 pm

Thanks. Makes sense.

Yes, I agree with you Bozak has started to look like a great move for us the last month, especially considering how bad or nonexistent our other options look for 3C. Also agree Toronto appears to have backed off a trade.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post ... ger_id=120

I found the above blog from Toronto's writer discussing their weak center depth interesting. They like Bozak at 2C, but he has been slumping. They acknowledge they probably won't resign Bozak, but think they need him with thin center depth. Also says 2013 first round pick Gauthier is giving Domonic Moore a run for 4C, but no discussion about his ability to play 3C for them.

Most interesting is they do not discuss any of their other young guys who have played C in the past, that we discuss on here, as viable options.

It seems their internal opinion of having weak C depth is part of the reason they have backed off on dealing Bozak.
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Re: 2018 Trade Rumors Section

Postby OKpensfan247 on Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:23 pm

* meant to say they like Kadri at 2C despite him slumping... Not Bozak.
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Re: 2018 Trade Rumors Section

Postby Maestro on Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:06 pm

Blackhawks really need to change things up. Anisimov for Sheary, Dea, Cole seems fair.
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Re: 2018 Trade Rumors Section

Postby pekkasteele on Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:20 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
OKpensfan247 wrote:So our most likely trade chip appears to be Cole.

Can anyone please remind me what a #5 LHD goes for?

Could we get a second rounder for Cole?

Just trying to understand what CHI, EDM, TOR, etc could possibly deal to us in picks if they are unwilling to deal players to us. In theory we could then possibly package picks to another team for a 3C.

As a UFA defenseman, Cole should be able to fetch a 2nd rounder. Could get knocked down to a 3rd but, with some of the other names out there on the defense market (Jack Johnson, Paul Martin, Mike Green, etc), Cole should have some extra value in that he is cheap. He is an above average 3rd pairing defenseman. We all know he has the ability to be a #4 if needed as well.

One would have to believe, based on talk about a month ago, that Rutherford has given Cole's agent permission to discuss terms with other teams, likely stating if you can work out a deal for a 2nd round pick, or X type of prospect/player, we can make a deal......and if you are able to work out the framework of an extension with another team, we are going to need pieces X and Y.

It really sounds like Bozak is the desired piece, but also seems like Toronto has soured on trading him. They'd rather keep him and have him help their playoff run rather than trade him at this point. That still could change, but Cole and a 3rd/4th for Bozak and maybe 25% retained would be fair.


If we think back at the Murray trade, we gave 2x2rd, is Cole worth less than that?
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Re: 2018 Trade Rumors Section

Postby thehockeyguru on Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:18 pm

Maestro wrote:Blackhawks really need to change things up. Anisimov for Sheary, Dea, Cole seems fair.


Sheary has been a complete non-factor when he's off Crosbys line. When he's on his line he's legit top 6.

I'm a big Cole fan. I hate the way he's been treated by HCMS. He will be traded to a contender and have an impact. It's been a sad ending to his Pens career
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Re: 2018 Trade Rumors Section

Postby KG on Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:46 pm

Speaking of the Hawks. They are last in the central with 50 points.

Maybe they will look to shake things up? Could definitely see Cole in a Hawks uni, same for Sheary and Hagelin for that matter.

Anisimov would be great!
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Re: 2018 Trade Rumors Section

Postby Maestro on Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:01 pm

The one thing is Schmaltz has looked very good at center for the Hawks.
Hartman should be RW and can move down to 3rd or 4th line.
Sheary as LW with Schmaltz and Kane. I think he'll be ok.
Cole obviously helps them.
Dea a center prospect they can use.
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Re: 2018 Trade Rumors Section

Postby FLPensFan on Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:01 am

Maestro wrote:The one thing is Schmaltz has looked very good at center for the Hawks.
Hartman should be RW and can move down to 3rd or 4th line.
Sheary as LW with Schmaltz and Kane. I think he'll be ok.
Cole obviously helps them.
Dea a center prospect they can use.

No Hawks scouts at the Penguins game tonight. As Dan Kingerski noted "Perhaps they finally realized they were not going to see Ian Cole play."

Boston and Tampa Bay were scouts in attendance tonight.
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