What did we really lose from last years team?

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What did we really lose from last years team?

Postby BONVIE on Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:25 am

Every player from last years roster that we lost to another team. Look at the goals, points and +/- numbers. Did we actually lose anything. By the way, how about Ben Lovejoy for Hunwick straight up?


Goals Points +/-
Scott Wilson 0 0 -1
Trevor Daley 2 6 -13
Nick Bonino 6 8 -8
Matt Cullen 4 10 -10
Eric Fehr 0 0 -1
Mark Streit 0 0 -2
Josh Archibald 3 4 -5
David Warsohsky 0 1 -3
Oskar Sundquist 0 3 -3
Derrick Pouliot 2 11 -13
Steven Olesky Minors in Anaheim
Cameron Gaunce Minors in Columbus
So we have these 12 players with a combined 17 goals and combined +/- 59

The two left that we think we miss are,
Ron Hainsey 3 14 +7
Chris Kunitz 5 11 +7

Add an average 3C and this years team is way better than last years cup team. Sorry about the rough format but it sort of makes a point.
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Re: What did we really lose from last years team?

Postby Jim on Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:00 am

At the contracts the FAs signed, nah.

Bonino is the only one that I would sort of want back right now, but at the $1.8M he made last year NOT the $4.1M he got over the summer. But that is more a positional need rather than wanting Bonino specifically.
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Re: What did we really lose from last years team?

Postby Great58 on Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:13 am

I kind of feel badly for Bonino, as while he left for the big contract, I think he was also expecting a bigger role in Nashville than he had here. Instead, they also trade for Turris and now he has fewer minutes a night than he did here. Oh well, he got paid. And if his team is doing well, I assume he’ll be relatively happy in his role.

Bonino in the playoffs produced a lot of timely goals, although his numbers dropped from ‘16 to ‘17, and there’s no guarantee he’ll be able to replicate either playoff run in the future. And no reason to suggest someone else can’t have similar success if given the chance, like Gentzel did last year.

The loss of Cullen was a loss of flexibility in the lineup in one guy. But Sullivan can tweak his lineup in response to injury.

A healthy Letang more than offsets the loss of Daley.
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Re: What did we really lose from last years team?

Postby Steve Dave on Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:36 am

BONVIE wrote:Every player from last years roster that we lost to another team. Look at the goals, points and +/- numbers. Did we actually lose anything. By the way, how about Ben Lovejoy for Hunwick straight up?


Goals Points +/-
Scott Wilson 0 0 -1
Trevor Daley 2 6 -13
Nick Bonino 6 8 -8
Matt Cullen 4 10 -10
Eric Fehr 0 0 -1
Mark Streit 0 0 -2
Josh Archibald 3 4 -5
David Warsohsky 0 1 -3
Oskar Sundquist 0 3 -3
Derrick Pouliot 2 11 -13
Steven Olesky Minors in Anaheim
Cameron Gaunce Minors in Columbus
So we have these 12 players with a combined 17 goals and combined +/- 59

The two left that we think we miss are,
Ron Hainsey 3 14 +7
Chris Kunitz 5 11 +7

Add an average 3C and this years team is way better than last years cup team. Sorry about the rough format but it sort of makes a point.

Scott Wilson has 1 goal, 2 points and -4 on the year
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Re: What did we really lose from last years team?

Postby KG on Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:42 am

The only player I wanted to bring back was Bones. Just because he was such an integral part of the cup runs, but it’s still a business.

All of the other players it was time to move on.

I trust JR will find a suitable 3C and we should hopefully be on the run for more.
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Re: What did we really lose from last years team?

Postby pressure=9Pa on Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:43 am

Losing Kunitz, MAF, Bones, and Cullen may have had a locker room influence as well. Not saying there is a real problem right now, but those voices may not have been replaced.
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Re: What did we really lose from last years team?

Postby Jim on Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:26 pm

Great58 wrote:I kind of feel badly for Bonino, as while he left for the big contract, I think he was also expecting a bigger role in Nashville than he had here. Instead, they also trade for Turris and now he has fewer minutes a night than he did here. Oh well, he got paid. And if his team is doing well, I assume he’ll be relatively happy in his role.


True, but one of the main reasons that they went for Turris is because Bonino did nothing to show that he could step up and be a 2C by any stretch. If you want a bigger role you need to deliver that bigger role.
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Re: What did we really lose from last years team?

Postby largegarlic on Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:04 pm

I don't know if the Pens miss those guys as they're playing this year, but they're certainly missing them as they played last year. Just some of the goal totals from last year for those players:

Bonino 18
Cullen 13
Kunitz 9
Wilson 8
Fehr 6 (in 52 games)

So, I don't think we should have kept those specific guys as most have dropped off in production, but we didn't come close to adequately replacing that production.
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Re: What did we really lose from last years team?

Postby Great58 on Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:39 pm

Jim wrote:
Great58 wrote:I kind of feel badly for Bonino, as while he left for the big contract, I think he was also expecting a bigger role in Nashville than he had here. Instead, they also trade for Turris and now he has fewer minutes a night than he did here. Oh well, he got paid. And if his team is doing well, I assume he’ll be relatively happy in his role.


True, but one of the main reasons that they went for Turris is because Bonino did nothing to show that he could step up and be a 2C by any stretch. If you want a bigger role you need to deliver that bigger role.

He played in 5 games before they brought in Turris. So I don't think he got the chance he was expecting to. Now, everyone outside of Bonino and Nashville thought he wouldn't cut it as a #2, so eventually Nashville was going to come to the conclusion that they did. I think it just makes Nashville look bad that they didn't know what they were signing and planning to do.
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Re: What did we really lose from last years team?

Postby Pitts on Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:04 pm

I don't think it's as easy as saying, look at the numbers these guys are putting up on their new teams and surmising that we don't miss them. Fo all we know, Bonino may have found his groove back and be a top point-getter for this team. Cullen maybe picks up exactly where he left off and with him and Kunitz in the mix, maybe the Pens don't fumble through the fall like they have with their leadership in the room.
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Re: What did we really lose from last years team?

Postby BONVIE on Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:42 pm

If you had to choose a player right now who would you take. Cap hits should be considered too.

Ron Hainsey or Jamie Olessiak
Trevor Daley or return of Letang
Matt Cullen or Sheehan
Mark Streit or Hunwick
Pouliot or Ruhwedel
Scott Wilson and Kunitz or Spromg, Simon and Reeves
Bonino to still be determined

...Keep in mind the return of Ben Lovejoy for Hunwick and there is your well liked locker room presence guy.
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Re: What did we really lose from last years team?

Postby Daniel on Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:45 pm

Pitts wrote:I don't think it's as easy as saying, look at the numbers these guys are putting up on their new teams and surmising that we don't miss them. Fo all we know, Bonino may have found his groove back and be a top point-getter for this team. Cullen maybe picks up exactly where he left off and with him and Kunitz in the mix, maybe the Pens don't fumble through the fall like they have with their leadership in the room.


I think if Fleury and Kunitz were the only players lost, the team plays about the same. I think the problem is more emotional than physical or skill.
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Re: What did we really lose from last years team?

Postby BONVIE on Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:56 pm

Wow I forgot about Fleury who was a great team guy but Tristan Jarry has the same stats as Fleury right now. You can't even compare Cap hits so we save millions of dollars and lose a nice guy.
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Re: What did we really lose from last years team?

Postby Al262 on Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:58 pm

Green for my choice, Red exits. I didn't check the cap hits. Would like to have kept Kunitz and Bonino for the locker room presence, but on ice time has taken its toll.

Ron Hainsey or Jamie Olessiak
Trevor Daley or return of Letang
Matt Cullen or Sheehan
Mark Streit or Hunwick
Pouliot or Ruhwedel
Scott Wilson and Kunitz or Spromg, Simon and Reeves
Bonino to still be determined
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Re: What did we really lose from last years team?

Postby Daniel on Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:24 pm

BONVIE wrote:Wow I forgot about Fleury who was a great team guy but Tristan Jarry has the same stats as Fleury right now. You can't even compare Cap hits so we save millions of dollars and lose a nice guy.


I think on the ice, the Pens are better at goal, but you can't discount the relationship between Fleury and the rest of the team. Find a team in any sport with 5 guys who were teammates for over 10 years (Sid, Malkin, Kunitz, Letang, Fleury). If you do, those teams are very few.

I just don't think you can discount the off ice affect to the on ice product, and why we're starting to see the team play better after a few months. I know Fleury started off well in Vegas, but totally different situation with a brand new start for him.
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Re: What did we really lose from last years team?

Postby Puck-Lurker on Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:03 pm

Ron Hainsey or Jamie Oleksiak - Because of the Cap hit mainly.
Trevor Daley or return of Letang - This is a toin coss, depending on who is playing well. They've both had negative periods.
Matt Cullen or Sheahan - Sheahan and it's not that close I don't think.
Mark Streit or Hunwick - Hunwick is better and Streit retired after trying a 700K contract at MTL.
Pouliot or Ruhwedel - Ruhwedel is actually more solid to my eyes than Pouliot.
Scott Wilson and Kunitz or Sprong, Simon and Reaves - Salary being about even, this isn't even close. Kunitz vs Reaves would give me serious pause however, I'd probably go with Kunitz, but his cap hit is 2M.
Bonino to still be determined - Will have to see what GMJR does here. Bonino currently costs too much for what he brings, hard to see anything coming our way that'll be worse when you factor in the salary cap.
Fleury or Jarry - Gotta love Flower, but Jarry is on his last ELC year. Gotta believe you'll get as much from him as from Flower right now in terms of raw ability.

I do think you lose a lot of that instinctive leadership ability, the glue that keeps a team together, the oil that makes it run smoothly and so on. Fleury, Cullen, Kunitz first and foremost. I believe some of the young guys are making up the difference by committee now.
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Re: What did we really lose from last years team?

Postby pekkasteele on Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:58 am

I think the bigger loss is not the players, but the hunger, most guys on the team except the new once this year won 2 cups in a row, they don't have the same hunger now, or, at least not until now, seems to have turned it on now the last few days, so, maybe it is back now ... hopefully.
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Re: What did we really lose from last years team?

Postby penny lane on Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:18 am

Can't measure what "we" have loss until the play-offs begin.
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Re: What did we really lose from last years team?

Postby Penspal on Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:55 pm

penny lane wrote:Can't measure what "we" have loss until the play-offs begin.


I'm with you Penny, some of these guys, especially Oleksiak (I'm hoping) will be a playoff bEaSt
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Re: What did we really lose from last years team?

Postby netwolf on Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:16 pm

Let Streit walk, don't sign Hunwick, and you have room for Kunitz and pick up 250K in space. Just sayin'.
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Re: What did we really lose from last years team?

Postby Jim on Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:32 pm

But then you are down a defenseman and have an extra forward that you don't need. (Just speaking roster spots)
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