SCP18 Game 1 vs Caps - Thoughts from the Morning After

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Re: SCP18 Game 1 vs Caps - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Antonio on Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:42 am

The Cossack is a beast. I swear he played 19 minutes in the 3rd.
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Re: SCP18 Game 1 vs Caps - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Great58 on Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:06 pm

Not a great game for us, too many chances given up. Murray stood huge when it mattered. But despite being down 2-0 in the early 3rd period, I don't think we were out chanced, which bodes well going into game 2. I have a lot more faith that we can tighten up our defensive play than I believe the Caps can.
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Re: SCP18 Game 1 vs Caps - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby longtimefan on Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:19 pm

Henry Hank wrote:
Rowney should never dress again. The Rowner factor was at play again last night. The 4th line did not have ONE shot attempt for. Not ONE shot attempt. This always happens when a certain player is inserted.


It’s not a Rowney-specifc thing. It’s just what happens when your fourth line has nobody who is capable of driving offense. That’s definitely influenced by the fact that two top nine players got hurt, any team’s fourth line is going to suffer when that happens. Rowney played effective hockey in the playoffs last year when he was playing with more capable players (eg Bonino and Rust). I get a kick out of the calls for Jooris as if he’s going to be any difference. He was an empty sweater in the nine games he played for the Pens this season.

What I’d be interested to see is if they’re willing to spread the wealth down the lineup when/if everyone gets healthy. Like, Sheahan clearly seems to work well with Kessel, but by default he gets moved to the fourth line with a healthy lineup. Would they keep that duo together and play Brassard as the “fourth line center?” It’d have to be an ego check for Brassard to accept that role, but it would make the Pens even more of a nightmare to match-up.


I've thought about this. The ego check thing can be overcome if handled well. As Sully does now, by occasionally pointing out we are the ones labeling the lines 1-4. It's not how the team perceives it. It's always been true of this incarnation of the team. Kessel has spent a great deal of time as a "3rd line RW", which doesn't do him, or his line justice. Brassard isn't scoring much yet, but it's not like the Pens aren't getting offense. He's done a nice job on faceoffs, and I think the line with Rust and Sheary has been pretty good. Which is one of the reasons cited for moving Sheahan into Malkin's slot. It's possible Brassard doesn't score as much as he has in past playoffs. His role is different. He's a very skilled, talented, player.

Last night's game, with so few penalties, is the perfect example of a game where you would have an opportunity to roll 4 lines. If you're concerned about the egos, we'll save Brassard any embarrassment by moving Kessel down to the "4th line". :)

Guentzel Crosby Hornqvist
Hagelin Malkin Simon
Sheary Brassard Rust
ZAR Sheahan Kessel

A couple flies in the ointment are the injuries, and the likely injuries to come. Plus, there aren't many games where you can roll four lines. It struck me after Hagelin went down Sunday that Kessel was playing with Sheahan and ZAR, 2/3's of our "4th line". Another big problem is they aren't likely to remove Kuhnhackl from the lineup. His offensive shortcomings aside, he's a very valuable penalty killer. Plus, he's got some underrated skills when paired with the proper linemates. I do think Rowney will stay above Jooris on the depth chart. He had a bad night in the circle, but Beagle was like 71% against CBJ. Rowney's been pretty decent in the circle overall. His biggest advantage is he knows the system inside and out, and they trust him on the PK.

It's funny we sit here and discuss line combinations for hours. :) When the truth is, that's one of the biggest strengths of this team. They will change according to the situation. ZAR plays a banging game, Simon a skilled game. JR did what he promised to do. Fix the center depth. Now you have a team whose nucleus has been together for quite some time. Like how Sully described the PP earlier this season. "We just get out of the way." The familiarity is a huge advantage. That holds true throughout the lineup. A couple new pieces, but the team has 8 forwards going for their 3rd straight cup. At one time or another, everybody has played with everybody else. Which allows Sully to mix and match as the situation dictates. I remember a quote earlier this season when the Pens committed to playing Sid, Geno, and Phil on different lines. But he also changed it up often, sending Phil out with Sid or Geno. I don't recall who the defenseman was, but he said something to the effect that it was rough with the three separated, but when you looked up once in a while to see two on the ice, you perked up and took notice.

The Pens have a wonderful situation upfront. It makes for a ton of fodder to consider. They are deep, talented, and very familiar with one another. It's a Cup worthy collection. I believe the team's fortunes will be decided by the ability of Murray and the top 4 defenseman to stay healthy. If they do, they've got a really good shot.
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Re: SCP18 Game 1 vs Caps - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Risto on Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:40 pm

longtimefan wrote:Last night's game, with so few penalties, is the perfect example of a game where you would have an opportunity to roll 4 lines. If you're concerned about the egos, we'll save Brassard any embarrassment by moving Kessel down to the "4th line". :)

Guentzel Crosby Hornqvist
Hagelin Malkin Simon
Sheary Brassard Rust
ZAR Sheahan Kessel


Balance is nice, but I think your scenario there might be asking too much of Kessel and Malkin to carry the scoring burden of their lines on their back (though the Pens have frequently done that to Sid by asking him the elevate a couple of ham-and-eggers).

Flip Kessel with Simon and I think you've got it. Although I fear it will continue to be Kuhnrowney rather than Simon and/or ZAR.
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Re: SCP18 Game 1 vs Caps - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Cow_Master66 on Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:49 pm

Don't get the hate for Rowney. Perfectly capable 4C and PKer and has proven he can handle it. I personally don't care if the 4th line scores or even gets a shot because their role on this team is to play 10+ minutes, hopefully in the other teams end for most of it, and not get scored on. Anything more than that is gravy.
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Re: SCP18 Game 1 vs Caps - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby bsgg-penguinsbrazil on Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:55 pm

I love the fact that we can make quality chances with whoever is on the ice. So much depth. Bring a 2-0 to PIT would be huge.

Hornqvist is underrated. Doesn't matter all the praise he receives, it isn't enough hahaha.
Murray is so good, but when it matters, he is even better. Can't imagine how much will cost his next contract.
Sheahan just... I mean, a 3rd + Scott Wilson for him? Steal. Playing like a legit 2C, hope he resigns.
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Re: SCP18 Game 1 vs Caps - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby OKpensfan247 on Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:23 pm

I like the comments regarding Sheahan and Kessel staying together post-Geno comeback. I am firmly in that camp.

It was GMJR who had the interview with either Trib or Post saying he has learned the last two years with Sully that it's not about line 1, line 3, etc... Rather it is about players' chemistry with each other, and guys filling roles on different lines.

I like Phil having his "own" line. I like Sheahan's defense abilities supporting Phil's deficiency in the same area.
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Re: SCP18 Game 1 vs Caps - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby flame on Fri Apr 27, 2018 3:39 pm

Cow_Master66 wrote:Don't get the hate for Rowney. Perfectly capable 4C and PKer and has proven he can handle it. I personally don't care if the 4th line scores or even gets a shot because their role on this team is to play 10+ minutes, hopefully in the other teams end for most of it, and not get scored on. Anything more than that is gravy.

When Rowney was on the ice, Washington had a 14-0 edge in attempts. It doesn’t get much worse then that. That line will get scored on no matter how good they are defensively if they’re in their defensive zone the entire time which is the case when Rowney is on the ice... especially with Kuhnakel.
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Re: SCP18 Game 1 vs Caps - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby thehockeyguru on Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:04 pm

flame wrote:
Cow_Master66 wrote:Don't get the hate for Rowney. Perfectly capable 4C and PKer and has proven he can handle it. I personally don't care if the 4th line scores or even gets a shot because their role on this team is to play 10+ minutes, hopefully in the other teams end for most of it, and not get scored on. Anything more than that is gravy.

When Rowney was on the ice, Washington had a 14-0 edge in attempts. It doesn’t get much worse then that. That line will get scored on no matter how good they are defensively if they’re in their defensive zone the entire time which is the case when Rowney is on the ice... especially with Kuhnakel.


Not much point in debating, with Malkin likely coming back for Game 2 Rowney is likely in the press box.

I feel bad for Sheahan because he deserves better than Kuhnhackl and ZAR. I'd love to see Sprong replace ZAR but it's just not going to happen.
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Re: SCP18 Game 1 vs Caps - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Puck-Lurker on Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:55 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
flame wrote:
Cow_Master66 wrote:Don't get the hate for Rowney. Perfectly capable 4C and PKer and has proven he can handle it. I personally don't care if the 4th line scores or even gets a shot because their role on this team is to play 10+ minutes, hopefully in the other teams end for most of it, and not get scored on. Anything more than that is gravy.

When Rowney was on the ice, Washington had a 14-0 edge in attempts. It doesn’t get much worse then that. That line will get scored on no matter how good they are defensively if they’re in their defensive zone the entire time which is the case when Rowney is on the ice... especially with Kuhnakel.


Not much point in debating, with Malkin likely coming back for Game 2 Rowney is likely in the press box.

I feel bad for Sheahan because he deserves better than Kuhnhackl and ZAR. I'd love to see Sprong replace ZAR but it's just not going to happen.

Rowney-Malkin-Kühnhackl as "fourth" line. Malkin on the PP.

Book it.
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Re: SCP18 Game 1 vs Caps - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Pitt87 on Sat Apr 28, 2018 3:39 pm

bsgg-penguinsbrazil wrote:I love the fact that we can make quality chances with whoever is on the ice. So much depth. Bring a 2-0 to PIT would be huge.

Hornqvist is underrated. Doesn't matter all the praise he receives, it isn't enough hahaha.
Murray is so good, but when it matters, he is even better. Can't imagine how much will cost his next contract.
Sheahan just... I mean, a 3rd + Scott Wilson for him? Steal. Playing like a legit 2C, hope he resigns.


I don't think Horny is underrated. Crosby has been so good in these playoffs that 72 & 59 have been able to do what they do best.

Murray has been as excellent and impossible to beat as he has been shaky on shots off the rush and losing track of pucks in close.

I don't really worry about the 4th line. The guys we have playing that role regularly is an embarrassment of riches. Rowney is a pretty typical 4th kine center. Malkin comes back and Sheahan returns to the 4th line, and the matchup challenge returns with them.
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Re: SCP18 Game 1 vs Caps - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby thehockeyguru on Sat Apr 28, 2018 5:14 pm

Carter Rowney is a typical center on a team that's booking tee times this time of year. Remember we had Crosby, Malkin, Bonino and Cullen down the middle the past two seasons.
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Re: SCP18 Game 1 vs Caps - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Malkintent on Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:11 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:Carter Rowney is a typical center on a team that's booking tee times this time of year. Remember we had Crosby, Malkin, Bonino and Cullen down the middle the past two seasons.

Agreed. Rowney mostly played wing last playoff. Having him at center is a recipe for disaster.
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Re: SCP18 Game 1 vs Caps - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Steve Dave on Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:28 pm

Malkintent wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:Carter Rowney is a typical center on a team that's booking tee times this time of year. Remember we had Crosby, Malkin, Bonino and Cullen down the middle the past two seasons.

Agreed. Rowney mostly played wing last playoff. Having him at center is a recipe for disaster.

Rowney played 4th line C the rest of the playoffs after Bonino went down in GM 2 of the Finals last year.
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Re: SCP18 Game 1 vs Caps - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Mango Salsa on Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:42 pm

Puck-Lurker wrote:Rowney-Malkin-Kühnhackl as "fourth" line. Malkin on the PP.

Book it.


I thought that's what they should've done with Mario in his last years when it was clear he was only playing to sell tickets. 4th line minutes to keep him in the game and use him as a power play specialist.
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Re: SCP18 Game 1 vs Caps - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Malkintent on Sun Apr 29, 2018 5:21 am

Steve Dave wrote:
Malkintent wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:Carter Rowney is a typical center on a team that's booking tee times this time of year. Remember we had Crosby, Malkin, Bonino and Cullen down the middle the past two seasons.

Agreed. Rowney mostly played wing last playoff. Having him at center is a recipe for disaster.

Rowney played 4th line C the rest of the playoffs after Bonino went down in GM 2 of the Finals last year.

For a few games you might get away with it but I don't like the idea of Rowney as a center long-term.
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Re: SCP18 Game 1 vs Caps - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Great58 on Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:36 am

Puck-Lurker wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
flame wrote:
Cow_Master66 wrote:Don't get the hate for Rowney. Perfectly capable 4C and PKer and has proven he can handle it. I personally don't care if the 4th line scores or even gets a shot because their role on this team is to play 10+ minutes, hopefully in the other teams end for most of it, and not get scored on. Anything more than that is gravy.

When Rowney was on the ice, Washington had a 14-0 edge in attempts. It doesn’t get much worse then that. That line will get scored on no matter how good they are defensively if they’re in their defensive zone the entire time which is the case when Rowney is on the ice... especially with Kuhnakel.


Not much point in debating, with Malkin likely coming back for Game 2 Rowney is likely in the press box.

I feel bad for Sheahan because he deserves better than Kuhnhackl and ZAR. I'd love to see Sprong replace ZAR but it's just not going to happen.

Rowney-Malkin-Kühnhackl as "fourth" line. Malkin on the PP.

Book it.

Sullivan said Malkin won’t be on the fourth line. Although I am surprised it wasn’t a “game time decision”.
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Re: SCP18 Game 1 vs Caps - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby thehockeyguru on Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:12 am

Malkintent wrote:
Steve Dave wrote:
Malkintent wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:Carter Rowney is a typical center on a team that's booking tee times this time of year. Remember we had Crosby, Malkin, Bonino and Cullen down the middle the past two seasons.

Agreed. Rowney mostly played wing last playoff. Having him at center is a recipe for disaster.

Rowney played 4th line C the rest of the playoffs after Bonino went down in GM 2 of the Finals last year.

For a few games you might get away with it but I don't like the idea of Rowney as a center long-term.


Exactly. When you look at the teams this time of year that are successful all 4 lines are chipping in. As it was correctly said earlier for 3 or 4 games you can get away with it but longer term you are in trouble. Rowney has 0 Goals and 3 Assists in 22 career playoff games that's not cutting it.
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Re: SCP18 Game 1 vs Caps - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby murphydump55 on Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:27 am

Pitt87 wrote:
bsgg-penguinsbrazil wrote:I love the fact that we can make quality chances with whoever is on the ice. So much depth. Bring a 2-0 to PIT would be huge.

Hornqvist is underrated. Doesn't matter all the praise he receives, it isn't enough hahaha.
Murray is so good, but when it matters, he is even better. Can't imagine how much will cost his next contract.
Sheahan just... I mean, a 3rd + Scott Wilson for him? Steal. Playing like a legit 2C, hope he resigns.


I don't think Horny is underrated. Crosby has been so good in these playoffs that 72 & 59 have been able to do what they do best.

Murray has been as excellent and impossible to beat as he has been shaky on shots off the rush and losing track of pucks in close.

I don't really worry about the 4th line. The guys we have playing that role regularly is an embarrassment of riches. Rowney is a pretty typical 4th kine center. Malkin comes back and Sheahan returns to the 4th line, and the matchup challenge returns with them.


Rowney is a typical 4th line centre in the AHL. Not this league.

Someone posted Rowney’s playoffs stats. Didn’t all of his playoff points come in one game? Trying to remember.
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