Is it too early to say Derick Brassard trade was…

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Is it too early to say Derick Brassard trade was…

Postby usc89 on Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:18 am

Terrible?

He is not delivering on reputation of “big game brass”.

If he and Kessel don’t start producing the Pens are done.

Sure could use Cole if BD is out for extended time.
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Re: Is it too early to say Derick Brassard trade was…

Postby DelPen on Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:23 am

The only reasons I’m not too upset is that A) he’s still words better than Rowney and Jooris and even Letestu especially with Geno out, B) Cole and Reaves were never going to play after April 1 even with injuries and C) I’m fine dealing 1st rounders when you find guys like ZAR and Bellerive as free agents.

But all that being said he needs to start producing. He isn’t hurting us out there like Rowney but he needs to be a lot better.
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Re: Is it too early to say Derick Brassard trade was…

Postby FLPensFan on Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:38 am

I don't think the trade was terrible. I see two big points right now:

1. Penguins banked on Brassard being able to step in and produce. I don't think they took enough consideration into how difficult it would be coming from a Guy Boucher system to, an actual normal offensive system.
2. Penguins banked on Brassard working with Kessel, and that hasn't happened. And that has caused them to move around some pieces and configure lines in ways other than they intended.

Brassard needs to find his game. I keep hearing he isn't playing bad, he's playing well, etc. All that is true. But like I said at the end of the GDT, Crosby, Guentzel, Hornqvist, Malkin, Rust, and Hagelin have scored 25 of the 31 playoff goals for the Penguins. Nobody else on the team has 2 goals. They need a lot more people stepping up to put pucks in the net, not just play well......including Brassard.

If the Penguins win it all, or get bounced out early, I think we will see a much better Brassard next year, when he can get in a full training camp and work with this team. I think the trade was good, but it would have been better with another month or more for him to work his way into the system. A mid-January trade would have been better, if that option was available.
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Re: Is it too early to say Derick Brassard trade was…

Postby largegarlic on Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:51 am

I feel like even if he continues to be a dud through this year's playoffs, we'd have to wait until next year to really assess the trade. Maybe the Pens get bounced by the Caps this year, but Brassard puts up ~50 points in the regular season next year and is a key player in another Cup run. If that happens, I'd say the trade was a win.
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Re: Is it too early to say Derick Brassard trade was…

Postby Southern Fan on Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:57 am

8 games down, probably 16-17 games left to win a cup. He needs to start scoring. He hasn't been terrible, but he hasn't been playoff Brassard either.

Having Malkin and Hagelin out affects every line, probably more then Dumoulin being out. If those guys return, disappointing if third line doesn't produce.

Reaves wouldn't have been a deterrent yesterday eating nachos.
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Re: Is it too early to say Derick Brassard trade was…

Postby Faubert5 on Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:31 am

Kessel is obviously injured. He's a shell of himself and at times I've wondered if sitting him wouldn't help. But with Malkin and Hagelin out that's probably not an option.

I think that the Brassard trade could pay dividends. If not this year then maybe next as has been suggested earlier. If we keep losing guys to cheap shots none of this will matter. I'm not a coulda, shoulda, woulda proponent but with Malkin and Hagelin out and Washington throwing their weight around Reaves probably would have dressed yesterday or at least in game 3. But then again, Sheahan would be our #2 center, Jooris #3, and Rowney still on the ice. I don't think that's much better than what we've seen so far if not worse.

I'd definitely dress Jorris for game 3 and take a hard look at Sprong in place of someone. This team needs a boost and it doesn't look likes it's going to come from anyone currently on the ice not wearing 87, 59, and 72. Maybe Geno and one or two subs get the boys firing again.

Sid and Jake have accounted for 43.8% of the Pens' goals in the postseason so far. Toss in Hornqvist and it's 53.1%. Granted it's a short sample size and Sid and Jake put up some big numbers in a couple of games. I'd try Brass on the top unit instead of Phil or I'd play the second unit first till Geno gets back. The second line on down needs to pick it up or the boys will be booking tee times sooner than they're used to.

Wish Dumo a speedy recover - I've seen nothing on the NHL site about a hearing for Wilson.
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Re: Is it too early to say Derick Brassard trade was…

Postby Fat Old Frank on Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:32 am

Who?
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Re: Is it too early to say Derick Brassard trade was…

Postby penny lane on Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:40 am

I've thought Brassard needs a speed guy, Carl Hagelin. He has played well with Sheary.
Healing vibes to Carl- we see this combo in May.
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Re: Is it too early to say Derick Brassard trade was…

Postby Antonio on Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:46 am

James Neal also didn't really produce until the next full season. Although I will say I didn't expect such mediocre production at this point.
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Re: Is it too early to say Derick Brassard trade was…

Postby Steve on Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:50 am

Brassard will be fine, and the winner of the trade will depend on Gustavsson's career. Barring injury, we're going to go into the playoffs next year loaded again at center.

As others pointed out already, no Brassard trade means that Jooris (or some other lesser acquired player like Letestu) is in at center instead of Brassard, and thus there's a chance that we're down 2-0 right now.

Also, I don't believe it was an either Brassard or Cole situation. I still don't understand or agree with the Cole trade - but Rutherford/Sullivan etc obviously knows more than we do.
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Re: Is it too early to say Derick Brassard trade was…

Postby Steve on Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:03 am

NashvilleCat wrote:Kessel is obviously injured. He's a shell of himself and at times I've wondered if sitting him wouldn't help. But with Malkin and Hagelin out that's probably not an option.

I think that the Brassard trade could pay dividends. If not this year then maybe next as has been suggested earlier. If we keep losing guys to cheap shots none of this will matter. I'm not a coulda, shoulda, woulda proponent but with Malkin and Hagelin out and Washington throwing their weight around Reaves probably would have dressed yesterday or at least in game 3. But then again, Sheahan would be our #2 center, Jooris #3, and Rowney still on the ice. I don't think that's much better than what we've seen so far if not worse.

I'd definitely dress Jorris for game 3 and take a hard look at Sprong in place of someone. This team needs a boost and it doesn't look likes it's going to come from anyone currently on the ice not wearing 87, 59, and 72. Maybe Geno and one or two subs get the boys firing again.

Sid and Jake have accounted for 43.8% of the Pens' goals in the postseason so far. Toss in Hornqvist and it's 53.1%. Granted it's a short sample size and Sid and Jake put up some big numbers in a couple of games. I'd try Brass on the top unit instead of Phil or I'd play the second unit first till Geno gets back. The second line on down needs to pick it up or the boys will be booking tee times sooner than they're used to.

Wish Dumo a speedy recover - I've seen nothing on the NHL site about a hearing for Wilson.


Regarding Reaves and hitting - this was a concern of mine going into the playoffs, the Pens have almost no element of that in their lineup. I get that speed kills, but hitting is still an important part of the game too. The Caps can play at full speed with almost no fear of getting hit. I'm not saying it needed to be Reaves, but the Pens really don't have a replacement for what Kunitz (and to a lesser extent, Scott Wilson) brought last year. Also, the Caps are riding three defensmen, it would be nice to have some guys that could pound them and wear them down.

Our biggest hitters are often our smallest, skilled guys. (i.e. Guentzel and Letang). Hornqvist will dish out some punishment at times, but he's mostly absorbing it.
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Re: Is it too early to say Derick Brassard trade was…

Postby lemieuxReturns on Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:11 am

It has been terrible. BUT, I do not blame JR. How could anyone predict that "Big Game Brass" would play more like "Derick Koltsov".
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Re: Is it too early to say Derick Brassard trade was…

Postby Risto on Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:37 am

Steve wrote:
NashvilleCat wrote:I'm not saying it needed to be Reaves, but the Pens really don't have a replacement for what Kunitz (and to a lesser extent, Scott Wilson) brought last year. Also, the Caps are riding three defensmen, it would be nice to have some guys that could pound them and wear them down.


This is a good point that's been overlooked. When you look at last year's playoffs and who was responding to the hitting and physical play - particularly in the Ottawa and Nashville series - it was Chris Kunitz. He is a feared heavy-hitter in this league. The Pens do not have that element in their lineup anymore. The most aggressive hitters we have at this point are probably Letang and Malkin- and those are not really the guys that you want to have to throw their bodies around there. Hornqvist is more of an agitator than a big hitter, and Oleksiak occasionally plays up to his size, but not often enough.

Regarding Brassard- Dude needs to get on the scoresheet- period. Otherwise, the Pens could have left Sheahan in that spot (where he was playing quite well) and preserved our defensive depth with Cole and brought in a serviceable 4th line guy that cost less.
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Re: Is it too early to say Derick Brassard trade was…

Postby Southern Fan on Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:59 pm

Risto wrote:
Steve wrote:
NashvilleCat wrote:I'm not saying it needed to be Reaves, but the Pens really don't have a replacement for what Kunitz (and to a lesser extent, Scott Wilson) brought last year. Also, the Caps are riding three defensmen, it would be nice to have some guys that could pound them and wear them down.


This is a good point that's been overlooked. When you look at last year's playoffs and who was responding to the hitting and physical play - particularly in the Ottawa and Nashville series - it was Chris Kunitz. He is a feared heavy-hitter in this league. The Pens do not have that element in their lineup anymore. The most aggressive hitters we have at this point are probably Letang and Malkin- and those are not really the guys that you want to have to throw their bodies around there. Hornqvist is more of an agitator than a big hitter, and Oleksiak occasionally plays up to his size, but not often enough.

Regarding Brassard- Dude needs to get on the scoresheet- period. Otherwise, the Pens could have left Sheahan in that spot (where he was playing quite well) and preserved our defensive depth with Cole and brought in a serviceable 4th line guy that cost less.


That's the tough part about Malkin and Hagelin missing time. With them back, I think Sheahan, Aston-Reese and Kuhnackl could do some serious damage on the Caps defense. These guys can lay some decent hits and create offensive zone time as a unit.
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Re: Is it too early to say Derick Brassard trade was…

Postby flame on Mon Apr 30, 2018 3:47 pm

DelPen wrote:The only reasons I’m not too upset is that A) he’s still words better than Rowney and Jooris and even Letestu especially with Geno out, B) Cole and Reaves were never going to play after April 1 even with injuries and C) I’m fine dealing 1st rounders when you find guys like ZAR and Bellerive as free agents.

But all that being said he needs to start producing. He isn’t hurting us out there like Rowney but he needs to be a lot better.

Completely agree although I think Cole would’ve been in the lineup. Still the trade was a no brainer. But now is the time he (and Kessel) need to produce.
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Re: Is it too early to say Derick Brassard trade was…

Postby flame on Mon Apr 30, 2018 3:50 pm

penny lane wrote:I've thought Brassard needs a speed guy, Carl Hagelin. He has played well with Sheary.
Healing vibes to Carl- we see this combo in May.

I haven’t looked into this but I wonder if Brass and Hags played on the same line much in New York.. and if so if they had success. I could see a speed guy like Hags helping Brassard find his game
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Re: Is it too early to say Derick Brassard trade was…

Postby pronovost19 on Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:46 pm

flame wrote:
penny lane wrote:I've thought Brassard needs a speed guy, Carl Hagelin. He has played well with Sheary.
Healing vibes to Carl- we see this combo in May.

I haven’t looked into this but I wonder if Brass and Hags played on the same line much in New York.. and if so if they had success. I could see a speed guy like Hags helping Brassard find his game


Aas I remember it...
Zuccarello - Brassard - Nash
then they put Benoit Pouliot with Zuccarello and Brassard
I really don't think that Hagelin ever played with Brass and Zuccs because those two were kinda always together and then even JT Miller played with those two at one point early in his career.
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Re: Is it too early to say Derick Brassard trade was…

Postby Owchar76 on Mon Apr 30, 2018 5:04 pm

This is ridiculous. Yes Brassard needs to produce more, but to be questioning the trade is kinda dumb.

The guy had 38 pts in 58 games last year on a defense first team.
He had almost 40 points the year before while adjusting to a horrible system in Ottawa.
Prior to that he had seasons of 58 and 60 points.

We acquired Derick Brassard, a fantastic hockey player. Anyone that has watched Brassard would have been over the moon with the addition. He is a great player and nobody could predict that he would come here and struggle. Do you think GMJR should have thought to himself, "hmmm, I better not make this trade in case he doesn't work out here". You acquire a player based on what he's done and what you think he can do. Brassard has a good track record and to be questioning the trade is pretty stupid. This isn't on GMJR, it's on Brassard, he needs to be better and play to his normal level.

You can't criticize this trade, we added a player that has proven himself as a point producer and made our centre depth the best in the league. As was said before, without him our centre depth the last 3 games would have been Sid, Sheahan, Rowney, Jooris. Pretty damn sad. When you throw in the fact that we have another full season of Brassard, it only adds to what a great trade this was. Unfortunately Brassard has yet to play to his level, but it's not like we took a chance on a struggling player like we did with Sheahan. Maybe then you could say this trade was a bust.

Brassard needs to be better and that's on him, not GMJR and this trade.
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Re: Is it too early to say Derick Brassard trade was…

Postby RentedMule66 on Mon Apr 30, 2018 7:11 pm

FLPensFan wrote:I don't think the trade was terrible. I see two big points right now:

1. Penguins banked on Brassard being able to step in and produce. I don't think they took enough consideration into how difficult it would be coming from a Guy Boucher system to, an actual normal offensive system.
2. Penguins banked on Brassard working with Kessel, and that hasn't happened. And that has caused them to move around some pieces and configure lines in ways other than they intended.

Brassard needs to find his game. I keep hearing he isn't playing bad, he's playing well, etc. All that is true. But like I said at the end of the GDT, Crosby, Guentzel, Hornqvist, Malkin, Rust, and Hagelin have scored 25 of the 31 playoff goals for the Penguins. Nobody else on the team has 2 goals. They need a lot more people stepping up to put pucks in the net, not just play well......including Brassard.

If the Penguins win it all, or get bounced out early, I think we will see a much better Brassard next year, when he can get in a full training camp and work with this team. I think the trade was good, but it would have been better with another month or more for him to work his way into the system. A mid-January trade would have been better, if that option was available.


While I hear what you're saying in your first point, he produced more in a defensive system than he is now, allowed to play in a more open, aggressive offense. I get that it takes time to adjust to a new system, but he was supposed to be the fall back if Sid or Geno got hurt. He has been below average/almost invisible. I don't care about the Corsi/Fenwick stats junk, I want to see "Big Game" production. Hell I'll take production like Talbot or Fehr at this point. I was excited and a huge supporter of the trade at the time, but the bloom has wilted from that rose big time.
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Re: Is it too early to say Derick Brassard trade was…

Postby ron_duguays_hair on Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:55 pm

Fans complain about not getting a third line center.

A non rental third line center who’s quality was better than expected is acquired.

A bottom pairing player who asked for a trade is part of the deal.

A player who mostly hated and would have been/is a healthy scratch is part of the deal.

Another team is retaining salary from this year and next.

Pittsburgh splits on the road to start the second round.

Fans complain.
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Re: Is it too early to say Derick Brassard trade was…

Postby Pitts on Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:09 pm

My 2cents:
I think Brassard is playing well - about as well as you can with Rust and Sheary on your wings. With that said, I was expecting a lot more bang out of Brassard once the playoffs started. I remember a Brassard who use to crush our forwards at every opportunity. I'm not sure I've sen him throw much of a hit on anyone yet in these playoffs. It's not so much the scoring I am looking for, but the physical play on opposing forwards and defensemen. I was expecting more.

Don't get me wrong though, I still love the trade. Our center depth is certainly the best in the league right now.
Last edited by Pitts on Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Is it too early to say Derick Brassard trade was…

Postby RentedMule66 on Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:10 pm

ron_duguays_hair wrote:Fans complain about not getting a third line center.

A non rental third line center who’s quality was better than expected is acquired.

A bottom pairing player who asked for a trade is part of the deal.

A player who mostly hated and would have been/is a healthy scratch is part of the deal.

Another team is retaining salary from this year and next.

Pittsburgh splits on the road to start the second round.

Fans complain.


We split on the road in the 2nd round no thanks to Brass. If he could ever score a goal maybe we'd be going home up 2-0 and also having swept the first round...
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Re: Is it too early to say Derick Brassard trade was…

Postby Antonio on Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:21 pm

Owchar76 wrote:This is ridiculous. Yes Brassard needs to produce more, but to be questioning the trade is kinda dumb.

The guy had 38 pts in 58 games last year on a defense first team.
He had almost 40 points the year before while adjusting to a horrible system in Ottawa.
Prior to that he had seasons of 58 and 60 points.

We acquired Derick Brassard, a fantastic hockey player. Anyone that has watched Brassard would have been over the moon with the addition. He is a great player and nobody could predict that he would come here and struggle. Do you think GMJR should have thought to himself, "hmmm, I better not make this trade in case he doesn't work out here". You acquire a player based on what he's done and what you think he can do. Brassard has a good track record and to be questioning the trade is pretty stupid. This isn't on GMJR, it's on Brassard, he needs to be better and play to his normal level.

You can't criticize this trade, we added a player that has proven himself as a point producer and made our centre depth the best in the league. As was said before, without him our centre depth the last 3 games would have been Sid, Sheahan, Rowney, Jooris. Pretty damn sad. When you throw in the fact that we have another full season of Brassard, it only adds to what a great trade this was. Unfortunately Brassard has yet to play to his level, but it's not like we took a chance on a struggling player like we did with Sheahan. Maybe then you could say this trade was a bust.

Brassard needs to be better and that's on him, not GMJR and this trade.


+1
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Re: Is it too early to say Derick Brassard trade was…

Postby ron_duguays_hair on Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:42 pm

I think a more prudent answer is that we need more more Brassard. Everyone agrees. Not sure how how can say it was a bad trade. It was ridiculous asset management.
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Re: Is it too early to say Derick Brassard trade was…

Postby Cow_Master66 on Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:51 pm

He is playing well and has nothing to show for it. Might be a different story this time tomorrow.

I am more concerned about why Kessel isn’t shooting the puck...but that’s concern that he’s nursing something, not complaining.
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