No Hearing for Wilson

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Re: No Hearing for Wilson

Postby Daniel on Tue May 01, 2018 11:39 am

Faubert5 wrote:
Southern Fan wrote:Most likely, before the cup is hoisted that hit will happen again and the offending player will be suspended.

Fun fact. The player safety guy, George Parros, had 2.3 minutes of penalties per game in his career compared to Tom Wilson’s 2.0 minutes per game.


I used to think they had a Random Justice Generator TM but it appears less than random and tilted toward goonery and the support of the players' trial lawyers.

Maybe the retired players are working a long con to lock up a win in the concussion case.


I think the opposite. I think they'll go into court with a bunch of examples of "but he leaned his head towards the hit". By not suspending people, they're blaming the victim for the situation rather than the other player.

Because "if it weren't the victims fault, we'd have surely suspended, look at these examples".
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Re: No Hearing for Wilson

Postby NJ5934 on Tue May 01, 2018 12:18 pm

I don't think there's any point to trying to rationalize the league's position as it seems to change frequently. I am getting a little tired of this team consistently being the hunted thou....losing a significant player seemingly every playoff series. It'd been nice to inflict some damage for once.
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Re: No Hearing for Wilson

Postby Faubert5 on Tue May 01, 2018 2:16 pm

Daniel wrote:
Faubert5 wrote:
Southern Fan wrote:Most likely, before the cup is hoisted that hit will happen again and the offending player will be suspended.

Fun fact. The player safety guy, George Parros, had 2.3 minutes of penalties per game in his career compared to Tom Wilson’s 2.0 minutes per game.


I used to think they had a Random Justice Generator TM but it appears less than random and tilted toward goonery and the support of the players' trial lawyers.

Maybe the retired players are working a long con to lock up a win in the concussion case.


I think the opposite. I think they'll go into court with a bunch of examples of "but he leaned his head towards the hit". By not suspending people, they're blaming the victim for the situation rather than the other player.

Because "if it weren't the victims fault, we'd have surely suspended, look at these examples".


I was being a bit facetious but blaming the victim often doesn't play well in court. If I were defending the league in court I'd prefer the approach that we did everything we could to discourage these guys but they knew the risks and did it anyway. At this point I don't know that many people buy into head injuries not leading to long term health issues and if I were on a jury I wouldn't accept that argument. Sometimes people do stupid things and don't deserve a judgement but that's not usually how our system works and the onus should be on the guy making the hit.
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Re: No Hearing for Wilson

Postby DelPen on Tue May 01, 2018 2:30 pm

NJ5934 wrote:I don't think there's any point to trying to rationalize the league's position as it seems to change frequently. I am getting a little tired of this team consistently being the hunted thou....losing a significant player seemingly every playoff series. It'd been nice to inflict some damage for once.

But when we go out and get players like that they either don’t get used like Reaves or get tossed from games because the refs don’t like them like Downie and Cooke. Downie actually was pretty tame when he was with us and was unjustly vilified by the officials. Cooke was a dumbass but no less than guys like wilson and Marchand are today.
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Re: No Hearing for Wilson

Postby penny lane on Tue May 01, 2018 3:37 pm

Dejan Kovacevic Retweeted
DK Pittsburgh Sports
‏ @DKPghSports
1h1 hour ago

Tom Wilson: "I’m an honest player"

:face:
player as opposed to person
A pox upon him.
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Re: No Hearing for Wilson

Postby Faubert5 on Tue May 01, 2018 3:45 pm

DelPen wrote:
NJ5934 wrote:I don't think there's any point to trying to rationalize the league's position as it seems to change frequently. I am getting a little tired of this team consistently being the hunted thou....losing a significant player seemingly every playoff series. It'd been nice to inflict some damage for once.

But when we go out and get players like that they either don’t get used like Reaves or get tossed from games because the refs don’t like them like Downie and Cooke. Downie actually was pretty tame when he was with us and was unjustly vilified by the officials. Cooke was a dumbass but no less than guys like wilson and Marchand are today.


Part of it is our club was trying to get it out of the game and other clubs have people like Trotz who keeps talking about this sort of thing being a hockey play. So when we do it I think they enjoy taking us to task for it.
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Re: No Hearing for Wilson

Postby Daniel on Tue May 01, 2018 4:18 pm

Faubert5 wrote:
Daniel wrote:
Faubert5 wrote:
Southern Fan wrote:Most likely, before the cup is hoisted that hit will happen again and the offending player will be suspended.

Fun fact. The player safety guy, George Parros, had 2.3 minutes of penalties per game in his career compared to Tom Wilson’s 2.0 minutes per game.


I used to think they had a Random Justice Generator TM but it appears less than random and tilted toward goonery and the support of the players' trial lawyers.

Maybe the retired players are working a long con to lock up a win in the concussion case.


I think the opposite. I think they'll go into court with a bunch of examples of "but he leaned his head towards the hit". By not suspending people, they're blaming the victim for the situation rather than the other player.

Because "if it weren't the victims fault, we'd have surely suspended, look at these examples".


I was being a bit facetious but blaming the victim often doesn't play well in court. If I were defending the league in court I'd prefer the approach that we did everything we could to discourage these guys but they knew the risks and did it anyway. At this point I don't know that many people buy into head injuries not leading to long term health issues and if I were on a jury I wouldn't accept that argument. Sometimes people do stupid things and don't deserve a judgement but that's not usually how our system works and the onus should be on the guy making the hit.


No, it doesn't, but in this case "Dumoulin caused his own injury, what could Wilson have done and we can't really punish him for an accident" might be their line of thinking. Maybe blaming the victim was a bit harsh, but I think you get where I'm going with this. More of "it was accidental" and everyone understand you can't punish someone for an accident.

I'm not 100% sure that this is the reason, the NHL might just be this inept.

BTW, I'm in complete agreement with you, just giving an opinion of what the NHL buffoons are thinking.
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Re: No Hearing for Wilson

Postby Lesky on Tue May 01, 2018 10:45 pm

On Tom Wilson, Player Safety and avoiding suspension

http://nhl.nbcsports.com/2018/04/30/on- ... uspension/
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Re: No Hearing for Wilson

Postby DelPen on Tue May 01, 2018 10:49 pm

So he broke ZARs jaw tonight with another shoulder to the head. Guessing zero games even with Parros in attendance.
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Re: No Hearing for Wilson

Postby BurghThing on Tue May 01, 2018 11:31 pm

DelPen wrote:So he broke ZARs jaw tonight with another shoulder to the head. Guessing zero games even with Parros in attendance.


Parros was waiting in the Caps locker room to congratulate him.
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Re: No Hearing for Wilson

Postby Faubert5 on Tue May 01, 2018 11:33 pm

Can't wait to hear Barry the POS's postgame it was a hockey play explanation.
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Re: No Hearing for Wilson

Postby Faubert5 on Tue May 01, 2018 11:34 pm

Daniel wrote:
Faubert5 wrote:
Daniel wrote:
Faubert5 wrote:
Southern Fan wrote:Most likely, before the cup is hoisted that hit will happen again and the offending player will be suspended.

Fun fact. The player safety guy, George Parros, had 2.3 minutes of penalties per game in his career compared to Tom Wilson’s 2.0 minutes per game.


I used to think they had a Random Justice Generator TM but it appears less than random and tilted toward goonery and the support of the players' trial lawyers.

Maybe the retired players are working a long con to lock up a win in the concussion case.


I think the opposite. I think they'll go into court with a bunch of examples of "but he leaned his head towards the hit". By not suspending people, they're blaming the victim for the situation rather than the other player.

Because "if it weren't the victims fault, we'd have surely suspended, look at these examples".


Careful, trying to think like they do could also cause permanent brain damage.

I was being a bit facetious but blaming the victim often doesn't play well in court. If I were defending the league in court I'd prefer the approach that we did everything we could to discourage these guys but they knew the risks and did it anyway. At this point I don't know that many people buy into head injuries not leading to long term health issues and if I were on a jury I wouldn't accept that argument. Sometimes people do stupid things and don't deserve a judgement but that's not usually how our system works and the onus should be on the guy making the hit.


No, it doesn't, but in this case "Dumoulin caused his own injury, what could Wilson have done and we can't really punish him for an accident" might be their line of thinking. Maybe blaming the victim was a bit harsh, but I think you get where I'm going with this. More of "it was accidental" and everyone understand you can't punish someone for an accident.

I'm not 100% sure that this is the reason, the NHL might just be this inept.

BTW, I'm in complete agreement with you, just giving an opinion of what the NHL buffoons are thinking.
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Re: No Hearing for Wilson

Postby BurghThing on Tue May 01, 2018 11:50 pm

Faubert5 wrote:Can't wait to hear Barry the POS's postgame it was a hockey play explanation.


Barry said it was shoulder to shoulder, which explains the broken jaw and concussion.
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Re: No Hearing for Wilson

Postby Lesky on Wed May 02, 2018 12:04 am

I'm just going to post the rule to anyone who uses the word "initial" or "first":

Rule 48.1 declares an illegal check to the head as "a hit resulting in contact with an opponent's head where the head was the main point of contact and such contact to the head was avoidable."

The word is MAIN. That is, NOT INITIAL.
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Re: No Hearing for Wilson

Postby Daniel on Wed May 02, 2018 12:06 am

BurghThing wrote:
Faubert5 wrote:Can't wait to hear Barry the POS's postgame it was a hockey play explanation.


Barry said it was shoulder to shoulder, which explains the broken jaw and concussion.


Perhaps Barry needs this?

Image
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Re: No Hearing for Wilson

Postby FLPensFan on Wed May 02, 2018 12:08 am

From what I am hearing, the off ice officiating crew refused to speak /let Sullivan speak to them after the game concerning the hit.

It's all but official for me......I won't be around here much next season. As sad as it makes me to do it, I am all but certain I am cancelling my Center Ice subscription and devoting much less time to hockey next season. If you have seen some of my posts, I've been coming close to this for the last 2 years. Penguins can go on and win the Cup this year.....that won't change my mind, as it's the NHL as a whole that is my problem.

A year of devoting my time to other areas and my money other places. Maybe I'll stay in that mode until the next lockout occurs and this is fixed. But just like the Pirates ownership and 20 years of futility ruined baseball for me, the NHL and their refusal to let the league become a skill league, and continue with these garbage head shots with no meaningful system of punishment......I'm out. :cry:
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Re: No Hearing for Wilson

Postby Daniel on Wed May 02, 2018 12:16 am

Lesky wrote:I'm just going to post the rule to anyone who uses the word "initial" or "first":

Rule 48.1 declares an illegal check to the head as "a hit resulting in contact with an opponent's head where the head was the main point of contact and such contact to the head was avoidable."

The word is MAIN. That is, NOT INITIAL.


But here's the saddest part of this situation. People wonder why we like hockey with all the nonsense, the "boxing on skates", the "went to a boxing match and a hockey game broke out" jokes, and all the other criticism. The sad thing is, how many fans are starting to agree with them? When you see the league bending over backwards to make excuses for Tom Wilson and Brad Marchand (who really does look like a rat), you see the games becoming unwatchable.

When is this stuff enough? When someone loses it and uses the stick as a weapon to attempt to kill someone because they've had enough of the cheap shots? Or seeing their team mate being a victim of a cheap shot? What will the NHL say then? "Slashing"?

Hard hits, even if they sometimes go over the line, ok, but when someone does head shots repeatedly, sooner or later you stop calling it an accident.
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Re: No Hearing for Wilson

Postby Daniel on Wed May 02, 2018 12:22 am

FLPensFan wrote:From what I am hearing, the off ice officiating crew refused to speak /let Sullivan speak to them after the game concerning the hit.

It's all but official for me......I won't be around here much next season. As sad as it makes me to do it, I am all but certain I am cancelling my Center Ice subscription and devoting much less time to hockey next season. If you have seen some of my posts, I've been coming close to this for the last 2 years. Penguins can go on and win the Cup this year.....that won't change my mind, as it's the NHL as a whole that is my problem.

A year of devoting my time to other areas and my money other places. Maybe I'll stay in that mode until the next lockout occurs and this is fixed. But just like the Pirates ownership and 20 years of futility ruined baseball for me, the NHL and their refusal to let the league become a skill league, and continue with these garbage head shots with no meaningful system of punishment......I'm out. :cry:


I'm sorry to see you go, you're a fantastic hockey ambassador. It's sad that the NHL is losing their fanbase and I believe the concussion lawsuit will absolutely kill this league. But, they brought it on themselves.

Not that you'll get rid of the Tom Wilson's or Brad Marchand's of the world, teams need guys like that, BUT when you see the same "accident' and head shots over and over again, you lay the hammer. If they got suspended every time they have a head shot, regardless of intent, they'll either stop or continue to get suspended until the team says enough is enough.
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Re: No Hearing for Wilson

Postby Pens4Life on Wed May 02, 2018 3:00 am

Why the whole Pens organization doesnt make a havoc of this? NHL and POS "players" like Wilson walking all over us..
Who will get destroyed in game 4??! ? :evil:
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Re: No Hearing for Wilson

Postby pronovost19 on Wed May 02, 2018 7:24 am

FLPensFan wrote:From what I am hearing, the off ice officiating crew refused to speak /let Sullivan speak to them after the game concerning the hit.

It's all but official for me......I won't be around here much next season. As sad as it makes me to do it, I am all but certain I am cancelling my Center Ice subscription and devoting much less time to hockey next season. If you have seen some of my posts, I've been coming close to this for the last 2 years. Penguins can go on and win the Cup this year.....that won't change my mind, as it's the NHL as a whole that is my problem.

A year of devoting my time to other areas and my money other places. Maybe I'll stay in that mode until the next lockout occurs and this is fixed. But just like the Pirates ownership and 20 years of futility ruined baseball for me, the NHL and their refusal to let the league become a skill league, and continue with these garbage head shots with no meaningful system of punishment......I'm out. :cry:


I kinda went the same route with Football.
I only watched like 2 1/2 Steeler games and that was early in year.
I think I may dump Center Ice next year too. not because of this Tom Wilson crap, but because I found so many other things to do during football season that I had neglected over the years, including bass fishing.
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Re: No Hearing for Wilson

Postby Mango Salsa on Wed May 02, 2018 7:48 am

pronovost19 wrote:
I kinda went the same route with Football.
I only watched like 2 1/2 Steeler games and that was early in year.
I think I may dump Center Ice next year too. not because of this Tom Wilson crap, but because I found so many other things to do during football season that I had neglected over the years, including bass fishing.



Ha yeah I started mountain biking/hiking 10 years ago and hardly watch football any more. I'd much rather spend a Sunday afternoon in the woods than plopped down in front of the TV. I also fish but not as much as I did in my 30's.
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Re: No Hearing for Wilson

Postby brwi on Wed May 02, 2018 7:49 am

Should there be a new thread "No Hearing for Wilson Part 2" or just leave it all in one thread?
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Re: No Hearing for Wilson

Postby djlm on Wed May 02, 2018 7:53 am

FLPensFan wrote:From what I am hearing, the off ice officiating crew refused to speak /let Sullivan speak to them after the game concerning the hit.

It's all but official for me......I won't be around here much next season. As sad as it makes me to do it, I am all but certain I am cancelling my Center Ice subscription and devoting much less time to hockey next season. If you have seen some of my posts, I've been coming close to this for the last 2 years. Penguins can go on and win the Cup this year.....that won't change my mind, as it's the NHL as a whole that is my problem.

A year of devoting my time to other areas and my money other places. Maybe I'll stay in that mode until the next lockout occurs and this is fixed. But just like the Pirates ownership and 20 years of futility ruined baseball for me, the NHL and their refusal to let the league become a skill league, and continue with these garbage head shots with no meaningful system of punishment......I'm out. :cry:


I did this a few years back. I canceled what is now nhl.tv due to **** refs as a sign of protest. I now have a software that streams links directly from NHL without a subscription with great resolution. Reddit is a blessing and a huge up yours to the NHL, the garage league.
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Re: No Hearing for Wilson

Postby Lesky on Wed May 02, 2018 7:55 am

What were Reaves going to do? Wilson wont fight him because that would make no sense, as he could not go on with his mission to injure Pens players for the Caps to win the series.

The only thing Reaves could do was to try to take out Backstrom or Carlson to even out the score.

Reaves cant catch up with Wilson, he is to slow, so he wont be able to lay a hit on him. Wilson is a ***** also, so he would never engage with Reaves.

Reaves maybe could have tried to kill Wilson in the regular season to prevent this from happening in the playoffs.

Maybe the Pens could bring up Sesito and try to have him injure Wilson, but that could be costly in the series, but maybe better than Wilson wiping out Crosbys career for example.
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Re: No Hearing for Wilson

Postby penny lane on Wed May 02, 2018 7:58 am

Image
The new face of the NHL
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