Former Penguin Carcillo breaks down Wilson-ZAR hit

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Former Penguin Carcillo breaks down Wilson-ZAR hit

Postby FLPensFan on Wed May 02, 2018 8:59 am

Former Penguins Dan Carcillo is one of the players suing the NHL over concussions and safety issues. He breaks down the Wilson hit from last night:


1/ If u have played the game the way I have, this clip is not that difficult to break down. Notice Wilson’s right skate before or at the initial point of contact. It is leaving the ice intentionally, which means he thrusts his body into an upward direction, which is towards the 2/ head of Reese. If we look at the left skate during the point of contact, Wilson is rising up onto his toe, as if he is trying to jump, hence the reason he ended up sitting on the dasher of his own bench after the hit. It is clear that Reese sees Wilson coming but that has very 3/ little to do with the fact that Wilson clearly makes contact with the head/jaw of Reese, in direct result of jumping and thrusting his body in an upward motion. Bc of this, we have a human being who may get the right diagnosis of a #concussion yet will he receive the treatment 4/ he so very clearly deserves, from a league that refuses to admit a link between traumatic brain injuries and the need for treatment
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Re: Former Penguin Carcillo breaks down Wilson-ZAR hit

Postby Humperdink on Wed May 02, 2018 9:15 am

Interesting point of view. Although, Carcillo has an ax to grind with the NHL, I think he is pretty accurate here.
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Re: Former Penguin Carcillo breaks down Wilson-ZAR hit

Postby Faubert5 on Wed May 02, 2018 9:40 am

Humperdink wrote:Interesting point of view. Although, Carcillo has an ax to grind with the NHL, I think he is pretty accurate here.


That ax is in need of grinding. The dinosaurs in the league need to go. No one is for taking hitting out of the game but this type of hit has one purpose and that's to hurt people.

If the Pens bow out this round I will not watch another minute of hockey this season.
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Re: Former Penguin Carcillo breaks down Wilson-ZAR hit

Postby Badger Bob on Wed May 02, 2018 9:59 am

The league needs to just take this "was the hit avoidable" litmus test out of it. There's no way you can 100% determine avoidability /intent. Shoulders and elbows need to make contact at chest level or below. That should be the test. Too many guys are reckless in the way they conduct themselves on the ice (especially a guy like Ovechkin). Hitting is one thing, but flying around the ice like an untamed jugernaut is only going to continue to cause injury, including head injuries. Players are bigger, stronger, and faster these days and the padding they wear gives them even more cajones to hit people like madmen.
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Re: Former Penguin Carcillo breaks down Wilson-ZAR hit

Postby interstorm on Wed May 02, 2018 10:13 am

Badger Bob wrote:The league needs to just take this "was the hit avoidable" litmus test out of it.


I agree. We don't penalize a high stick only if the person intended to clip someone in the face -- a player has to be responsible for their stick regardless. I don't see why it would be any different than a hit to the head. Remove intent out of it and this becomes an easy, black or white offense that can be determined very quickly with replay.

Only the NHL, which does a simply horrible job of being global steward for the game of hockey, could mess something so up so easily.
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Re: Former Penguin Carcillo breaks down Wilson-ZAR hit

Postby pressure=9Pa on Wed May 02, 2018 10:23 am

I sense the "avoidability" factor was originally intended to be for an already falling player whose head comes down on the hitter's shoulder as much as anything else. You see this in NCAA football where a defender is diving to deflect a pass, but the receiver slides or stumbles unexpectedly and the safety is ejected despite not really doing anything you wouldn't expect him to do again. The NHL rule is written to avoid this scenario. However, the current interpretation has devolved to "if we can't be 100% sure he meant to, we cannot penalize". That was never the intent of the rule.

Yes, there are angles that make each of Wilson's hits defendable in regards to intent. However, there is no argument that if even the intent wasn't there, they plays were very reckless and involved a hit to the head. If you have a reckless player making neck/head contact, that is entirely enough to penalize without looking at avoidability or intent.
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Re: Former Penguin Carcillo breaks down Wilson-ZAR hit

Postby jreed on Wed May 02, 2018 10:26 am

As much as I hate instant replay, this is one place that the NHL needs to look at it. For example, when play is stopped for an injury such as that (like in the case of Dumo and ZAR), they need to have the option of going to replay and taking a look at the hit. For the life of me, I cant see how Wilson did not receive a penalty for either hit.
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Re: Former Penguin Carcillo breaks down Wilson-ZAR hit

Postby FLPensFan on Wed May 02, 2018 10:27 am

It's very, very, VERY simple. Several years ago, the NHL changed from its own icing rules, to international icing rules or hybrid icing, to help prevent injuries that often occurred racing for icing plays. Simply adopt the international rule on head hits, which simply states there are no clean hits to the head. Any hit to the head, accidental or intentional, is a penalty (sorry for the large picture, IMG tag doesn't accept sizing that I have seen).


Image
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Re: Former Penguin Carcillo breaks down Wilson-ZAR hit

Postby KG on Wed May 02, 2018 10:28 am

jreed wrote:As much as I hate instant replay, this is one place that the NHL needs to look at it. For example, when play is stopped for an injury such as that (like in the case of Dumo and ZAR), they need to have the option of going to replay and taking a look at the hit. For the life of me, I cant see how Wilson did not receive a penalty for either hit.


This...the NHL has no problem reviewing for 5 minutes if a skate was lifted causing offside, but they can't review to see if there's a head shot causing injury to a player? how can that be justified?

NHL/NHLPA need to get on the same page when it comes to head shots.
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Re: Former Penguin Carcillo breaks down Wilson-ZAR hit

Postby Humperdink on Wed May 02, 2018 10:39 am

KG wrote:
jreed wrote:As much as I hate instant replay, this is one place that the NHL needs to look at it. For example, when play is stopped for an injury such as that (like in the case of Dumo and ZAR), they need to have the option of going to replay and taking a look at the hit. For the life of me, I cant see how Wilson did not receive a penalty for either hit.


This...the NHL has no problem reviewing for 5 minutes if a skate was lifted causing offside, but they can't review to see if there's a head shot causing injury to a player?


As I posted on the other thread, the NCAA does this for football.
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Re: Former Penguin Carcillo breaks down Wilson-ZAR hit

Postby Inkio on Wed May 02, 2018 10:42 am

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Re: Former Penguin Carcillo breaks down Wilson-ZAR hit

Postby Humperdink on Wed May 02, 2018 10:52 am

Inkio wrote:http://nhl.nbcsports.com/2018/04/30/on-tom-wilson-player-safety-and-avoiding-suspension/

Good article about Wilson.


Yes, a very good synopsis of Wilson's resume. Thx for posting.

Summary: The DOPS always finds an excuse to come down gently on Wilson.
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Re: Former Penguin Carcillo breaks down Wilson-ZAR hit

Postby Badger Bob on Wed May 02, 2018 11:09 am

Did anyone notice when Guentzel and Wilson got tangled up and Wilson went down against the end boards? As Jake started to skate away, Wilson tried to kick or trip him with his skate. This guy has bad wiring. He's filthy pond scum.
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Re: Former Penguin Carcillo breaks down Wilson-ZAR hit

Postby Zarovich on Wed May 02, 2018 11:13 am

Badger Bob wrote:Did anyone notice when Guentzel and Wilson to tangled up and Wilson went down against the end boards? As Jake started to skate away, Wilson tried to kick or trip him with his skate. This guy has bad wiring. He's filthy pond scum.


Was that the same play where Murray hooked Wilson's skate which caused Wilson to fall? Great teamwork by the Pens there. Too bad Wilson didn't break his ankle there.
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Re: Former Penguin Carcillo breaks down Wilson-ZAR hit

Postby Risto on Wed May 02, 2018 11:48 am

Somehow the NHL is still largely run by a bunch of Canadian hicks and ex-goons and ham-n-eggers. As long as that's the case, there's always going to be this neanderthal attitude that toughness - including abominations like Wilson - are as important as skill and stars. Just look at some of the downright ugly, caveman hockey that gets played in the later rounds of the playoffs after the refs put their whistles away. And that's why the NHL remains only a niche sport with regional popularity.

Of course Wilson launched his body in an upward motion towards the head, as Carcillo says. That's how he ends up sitting on top of the dasher boards. And then to hear those goofs Milbury and Jones on NBC claiming that it was just the force of the impact itself that launched Wilson into air, and that they need more camera angles to look at... My god...
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Re: Former Penguin Carcillo breaks down Wilson-ZAR hit

Postby stopper40 on Wed May 02, 2018 11:52 am

Faubert5 wrote:If the Pens bow out this round I will not watch another minute of hockey this season.
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Re: Former Penguin Carcillo breaks down Wilson-ZAR hit

Postby Badger Bob on Wed May 02, 2018 12:35 pm

Risto wrote:Somehow the NHL is still largely run by a bunch of Canadian hicks and ex-goons and ham-n-eggers.


Ironically, the NHL Head of the Department of Player Safety, George Parros, is a Washington, PA native. Although he grew up in New Jersey. But he also played 472 regular season games and had 1,092 PIM's. Now there's the guy you want running that department.
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Re: Former Penguin Carcillo breaks down Wilson-ZAR hit

Postby Mango Salsa on Wed May 02, 2018 12:46 pm

Zarovich wrote:
Badger Bob wrote:Did anyone notice when Guentzel and Wilson to tangled up and Wilson went down against the end boards? As Jake started to skate away, Wilson tried to kick or trip him with his skate. This guy has bad wiring. He's filthy pond scum.


I'd love to know what Jake said to him as he stood over him. I love this kid. What a gamer.

Was that the same play where Murray hooked Wilson's skate which caused Wilson to fall? Great teamwork by the Pens there. Too bad Wilson didn't break his ankle there.
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Re: Former Penguin Carcillo breaks down Wilson-ZAR hit

Postby Risto on Wed May 02, 2018 12:47 pm

Badger Bob wrote:
Risto wrote:Somehow the NHL is still largely run by a bunch of Canadian hicks and ex-goons and ham-n-eggers.


Ironically, the NHL Head of the Department of Player Safety, George Parros, is a Washington, PA native. Although he grew up in New Jersey. But he also played 472 regular season games and had 1,092 PIM's. Now there's the guy you want running that department.


Right, he falls under the ex-goon category.

Hilarious that a guy who used to crack skulls for a living is now in charge of player safety. You can't make this stuff up.
It's only slightly funnier than Colin Campbell- another marginal, tough-guy type player with well over 1,000 PIMs who was/is a top executive in the league.
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Re: Former Penguin Carcillo breaks down Wilson-ZAR hit

Postby Badger Bob on Wed May 02, 2018 12:52 pm

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Re: Former Penguin Carcillo breaks down Wilson-ZAR hit

Postby netwolf on Wed May 02, 2018 12:57 pm

It says a lot about where the NHL is when Daniel Freaking Carcillo is the voice of reason on something. I would love to know why the league, when reviewing incidents like this, always approaches it from the angle of "how might this be acceptable?" instead of "which part(s) of this do we not want in the game under any circumstances?"
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Re: Former Penguin Carcillo breaks down Wilson-ZAR hit

Postby Inkio on Wed May 02, 2018 1:57 pm

This guy nails it. Long video but this dude has it completely right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbGs8zWjf-E
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Re: Former Penguin Carcillo breaks down Wilson-ZAR hit

Postby largegarlic on Wed May 02, 2018 2:59 pm

I do think these attitudes go beyond the people in charge too. I've been reading a lot of the playoff coverage on Sportsnet.ca, and if you look at the comments sections there on articles about the Wilson incidents, I'd say about half of the comments are things like, "Well, that'll teach that rookie to have his head in the neutral zone," or "What is this, soccer? That's shoulder-to-shoulder, and how can Wilson help it if his shoulder continues and hits his head?"
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Re: Former Penguin Carcillo breaks down Wilson-ZAR hit

Postby Badger Bob on Wed May 02, 2018 3:04 pm

Inkio wrote:This guy nails it. Long video but this dude has it completely right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbGs8zWjf-E



It's much like how most of us felt about Matt Cooke when he was a Penguin.
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Re: Former Penguin Carcillo breaks down Wilson-ZAR hit

Postby Southern Fan on Wed May 02, 2018 3:47 pm

Badger Bob wrote:
Inkio wrote:This guy nails it. Long video but this dude has it completely right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbGs8zWjf-E


It's much like how most of us felt about Matt Cooke when he was a Penguin.


Good you tube from a Caps fan. Thing is, Stevens seems like a good guy and I have met Dale Hunter and he seemed like a really solid person. My feeling about Tom Wilson, based on the few interviews he’s done, is he is 100% trash as a human being
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