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2018 Summer Game Plan

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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby KG on Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:30 pm

What if the ask for Skinner was Sheary, Jarry and 1st rd pick? Another first round pick traded away. But I think we have to be all in this season. Brassard will more then likely not re-sign. And Skinner is in the last year of his deal. Load up!

Sid/Jake/Horny
Malkin/Skinner/Kessel
Brassard/Rust/Sprong
Sheahan/Hagelin/ZAR

Roll those 4 lines all game long.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby ville5 on Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:42 pm

Daniel wrote:
LimerickPensFan wrote:I'm just getting annoyed with all these trade rumors being spread around by so-called NHL insiders and experts that never come to pass.


Treliving explains why we see all those rumors. Might be hard to not laugh at rumors if you consider this:

“it usually comes out late at night when people have been into the red wine"

Funny thing is, his answer was partly related to Hamilton rumors. Then traded him 2 days later.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Daniel on Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:44 pm

KG wrote:What if the ask for Skinner was Sheary, Jarry and 1st rd pick? Another first round pick traded away. But I think we have to be all in this season. Brassard will more then likely not re-sign. And Skinner is in the last year of his deal. Load up!

Sid/Jake/Horny
Malkin/Skinner/Kessel
Brassard/Rust/Sprong
Sheahan/Hagelin/ZAR

Roll those 4 lines all game long.


I'd just assume not do this trade. Skinner might help, but how bad off will the Pens be when Murray misses a month next season? A few months ago the Pens goalie pool was pretty deep, this trade makes it Murray, DeSmith, no one else. Even if they trade for a retread, he's a retread for a reason.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby jreed on Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:50 pm

KG wrote:What if the ask for Skinner was Sheary, Jarry and 1st rd pick? Another first round pick traded away. But I think we have to be all in this season. Brassard will more then likely not re-sign. And Skinner is in the last year of his deal. Load up!

Sid/Jake/Horny
Malkin/Skinner/Kessel
Brassard/Rust/Sprong
Sheahan/Hagelin/ZAR

Roll those 4 lines all game long.


That’s a heck of a set of forwards. I wouldn’t make the trade with a first rounder unless there was something of significance coming back.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:25 pm

brwi wrote:
ville5 wrote:
drewcpappas wrote:
ville5 wrote:Supposedly, GMJR and Blues' GM Armstrong were talking with Skinner's agent.


Where did you read that? Just curious

Pens section on hfboards in draft thread. Could be nothing. Some of our rfas might have same agent- Meehan


Meehan is also Kessel's agent....cue the dramatic music!

Meehan is Oleksiak and Justin Schultz agent as well. So, likely kicking off an Oleksiak conversation.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:33 pm

KG wrote:What if the ask for Skinner was Sheary, Jarry and 1st rd pick? Another first round pick traded away. But I think we have to be all in this season. Brassard will more then likely not re-sign. And Skinner is in the last year of his deal. Load up!

Sid/Jake/Horny
Malkin/Skinner/Kessel
Brassard/Rust/Sprong
Sheahan/Hagelin/ZAR

Roll those 4 lines all game long.

I'd have concern about Skinner, Kessel, and Sprong all in the lineup, and how that affects the team defensively. It isn't going to happen, but I'd rather just move Sheary and Hunwick, sign Grabner for 3 years, 3.5M, and sign a bottom pairing defenseman.

Guentzel-Crosby-Hornqvist
Grabner-Malkin-Kessel
Hagelin-Brassard-Sprong
ZAR-Sheahan-Rust
xBlueger, DiPauli

If you can get Grabner for 3-3.5M, you can then trade Hagelin at the deadline, or let him walk at the season's end. Grabner>Hagelin, as they are similar speed and defensive wise, but Grabner has better hands.

Can you imagine a PK.....Brassard-Hagelin, Sheahan-Grabner. Let the centers hang back, and let Hagelin and Grabner force the play, forecheck hard, and try and generate offensive on the PK.

I'm really interested to see how this week pans out, because if Rutherford can't move a guy or two, like Sheary and Hunwick, then I think this offseason is a failure. Rutherford has been pretty consistent that the team needs some tweaks. Not resigning Rust or Sheahan isn't the proper way to do that. And keeping Sheary and Hunwick will eat up the cap space and roster space to make necessary moves.

I do not believe this team can just bring everyone back fresh and be considered a top 4 Cup Contender. They don't need major upheaval, but some tweaks ARE necessary.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby KG on Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:06 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
KG wrote:What if the ask for Skinner was Sheary, Jarry and 1st rd pick? Another first round pick traded away. But I think we have to be all in this season. Brassard will more then likely not re-sign. And Skinner is in the last year of his deal. Load up!

Sid/Jake/Horny
Malkin/Skinner/Kessel
Brassard/Rust/Sprong
Sheahan/Hagelin/ZAR

Roll those 4 lines all game long.

I'd have concern about Skinner, Kessel, and Sprong all in the lineup, and how that affects the team defensively. It isn't going to happen, but I'd rather just move Sheary and Hunwick, sign Grabner for 3 years, 3.5M, and sign a bottom pairing defenseman.

Guentzel-Crosby-Hornqvist
Grabner-Malkin-Kessel
Hagelin-Brassard-Sprong
ZAR-Sheahan-Rust
xBlueger, DiPauli

If you can get Grabner for 3-3.5M, you can then trade Hagelin at the deadline, or let him walk at the season's end. Grabner>Hagelin, as they are similar speed and defensive wise, but Grabner has better hands.

Can you imagine a PK.....Brassard-Hagelin, Sheahan-Grabner. Let the centers hang back, and let Hagelin and Grabner force the play, forecheck hard, and try and generate offensive on the PK.

I'm really interested to see how this week pans out, because if Rutherford can't move a guy or two, like Sheary and Hunwick, then I think this offseason is a failure. Rutherford has been pretty consistent that the team needs some tweaks. Not resigning Rust or Sheahan isn't the proper way to do that. And keeping Sheary and Hunwick will eat up the cap space and roster space to make necessary moves.

I do not believe this team can just bring everyone back fresh and be considered a top 4 Cup Contender. They don't need major upheaval, but some tweaks ARE necessary.


I agree with you. I would much rather find a home for Sheary and Hunwick and then replace them with better versions. Guess I’m just a little skeptical that we could move both of them without having to take money back.

But yes I would much rather sign Grabner for money then dealing assets for Skinner.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby largegarlic on Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:36 pm

KG wrote: I agree with you. I would much rather find a home for Sheary and Hunwick and then replace them with better versions. Guess I’m just a little skeptical that we could move both of them without having to take money back.

But yes I would much rather sign Grabner for money then dealing assets for Skinner.


Yeah, if they were going to move Sheary or Hunwick without taking salary back, you'd think that would have happened at the draft. I wouldn't give Sheary away for peanuts, but I would have moved Hunwick for a 7th just to have that cap space.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Hatrick on Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:54 pm

KG wrote:What if the ask for Skinner was Sheary, Jarry and 1st rd pick? Another first round pick traded away. But I think we have to be all in this season. Brassard will more then likely not re-sign. And Skinner is in the last year of his deal. Load up!

Sid/Jake/Horny
Malkin/Skinner/Kessel
Brassard/Rust/Sprong
Sheahan/Hagelin/ZAR

Roll those 4 lines all game long.

that's way too much to give up for skinner imo. Let them take sheary and make a choose, good pick or good prospect or mediocre of both, not good both.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Skatingpen on Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:32 pm

KG wrote:What if the ask for Skinner was Sheary, Jarry and 1st rd pick? Another first round pick traded away. But I think we have to be all in this season. Brassard will more then likely not re-sign. And Skinner is in the last year of his deal. Load up!

Sid/Jake/Horny
Malkin/Skinner/Kessel
Brassard/Rust/Sprong
Sheahan/Hagelin/ZAR

Roll those 4 lines all game long.



Am i the only one not impressed by Skinner? He has been hurt a ton and is a perimeter player. Pass
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby joker10277 on Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:01 pm

Skatingpen wrote:
KG wrote:What if the ask for Skinner was Sheary, Jarry and 1st rd pick? Another first round pick traded away. But I think we have to be all in this season. Brassard will more then likely not re-sign. And Skinner is in the last year of his deal. Load up!

Sid/Jake/Horny
Malkin/Skinner/Kessel
Brassard/Rust/Sprong
Sheahan/Hagelin/ZAR

Roll those 4 lines all game long.



Am i the only one not impressed by Skinner? He has been hurt a ton and is a perimeter player. Pass


No I’m not a fan of giving up assets for him, trade sheary for pick and sign Comeau or Maroon to play LW with Geno, can’t keep giving up the future, islanders had 4 picks before our first pick, pens had 4 picks total, it’s going to catch up with them
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:02 pm

Skatingpen wrote:
KG wrote:What if the ask for Skinner was Sheary, Jarry and 1st rd pick? Another first round pick traded away. But I think we have to be all in this season. Brassard will more then likely not re-sign. And Skinner is in the last year of his deal. Load up!

Sid/Jake/Horny
Malkin/Skinner/Kessel
Brassard/Rust/Sprong
Sheahan/Hagelin/ZAR

Roll those 4 lines all game long.



Am i the only one not impressed by Skinner? He has been hurt a ton and is a perimeter player. Pass

He's averaged 78 games a season for the past 5 years. His concussion issues were long ago, and haven't been a problem for quite some time.
He's averaged 28 goals a season over the past 5 years. He's one of the best overall skaters in the league, thanks to his figure skating past.
But I wouldn't give up Sheary, Jarry, and a 1st for him. And I'm not sure Kessel, Skinner, and Sprong in a lineup is a good idea. They all have some level of defensive deficiency.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Pruezy11881 on Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:03 pm

Skatingpen wrote:
KG wrote:What if the ask for Skinner was Sheary, Jarry and 1st rd pick? Another first round pick traded away. But I think we have to be all in this season. Brassard will more then likely not re-sign. And Skinner is in the last year of his deal. Load up!

Sid/Jake/Horny
Malkin/Skinner/Kessel
Brassard/Rust/Sprong
Sheahan/Hagelin/ZAR

Roll those 4 lines all game long.



Am i the only one not impressed by Skinner? He has been hurt a ton and is a perimeter player. Pass

He's only missed 19 games the last five seasons...he's not injury prone. The guy has amazing edge work, plays with speed, abd can bury the puck. He's still young. He would do well on this team as long as the cost isn't too high to acquire. And the only way you acquire him is if he agrees to an extension.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby murphydump55 on Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:25 pm

Yup and yup to the last two posts about Skinner. He’s had 5 straight years of health but people think he’s always hurt? He’s a scorer but people aren’t impressed? What does this kid need to do? I could watch him skate all night, just awesome to see.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:21 am

Here's a frightful lineup with Skinner:

Guentzel-Crosby-Hornqvist
Skinner-Malkin-Kessel
Sheary-Brassard-Sprong
ZAR-Sheahan-Rust

While we all talk about moving Sheary, the Penguins would be in a better place cap-wise moving Hagelin. And if you are fielding that lineup above, good luck keeping pucks out of the net. Rutherford talks about tweaks, and the Penguins wanting more balance in the lineup. I don't think I see balance in a lineup above.

Sprong and Hunwick for Skinner and TVR (CAR may need to receive an extra pick and retain 1M or so). Canes have only 4 defenseman under contract right now, TVR being the 5th who is RFA. 4 of the 5 d-men are right handed. They have Jake Bean and Haydn Fleury in the minors who are signed, and are both LH. They could actually use a vet like Hunwick who is a lefty.

I'd then still look to move Sheary, with the goal of bringing in Grabner.

Guentzel-Crosby-Hornqvist
Skinner-Malkin-Grabner
Hagelin-Brassard-Kessel
ZAR-Sheahan-Rust
xDiPauli

Dumo-Letang
Maatta-Schultz
Oleksiak-TVR
xRuhwedel

You've got speed and defense on every line. It would be a stretch to make this work cap wise if Carolina didn't retain some salary. Hagelin leaves next year, Grabner is already on the roster as his replacement, and Hagelin's money goes towards Guentzel's salary. Have to figure out how to resign Skinner as well. That would be next year's problem, and could be when a Kessel or Letang trade is revisited....or even a guy like Schultz.

People will crap bricks giving up Sprong, but, he is still an unknown at this point. He may be a lethal 30 goal sniper. Or he could turn out to be a marginal scorer against NHL level defense/goalies and NHL speed. I would not give up Sprong for a 30+ year old forward, but for a 26 year old forward who can skate better than anyone in the league (not necessarily speed wise) and has put up 24, 37, 28, 18, and 33 goals over the past 5 years, that would be Rutherford's definition of WIN NOW and YEAR BY YEAR.

You know I've been preaching getting younger, but I would be on-board with a Skinner for Sprong level swap, provided that Sheary for Grabner happened as well.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby drewcpappas on Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:31 am

FLPensFan wrote:Here's a frightful lineup with Skinner:

Guentzel-Crosby-Hornqvist
Skinner-Malkin-Kessel
Sheary-Brassard-Sprong
ZAR-Sheahan-Rust

While we all talk about moving Sheary, the Penguins would be in a better place cap-wise moving Hagelin. And if you are fielding that lineup above, good luck keeping pucks out of the net. Rutherford talks about tweaks, and the Penguins wanting more balance in the lineup. I don't think I see balance in a lineup above.

Sprong and Hunwick for Skinner and TVR (CAR may need to receive an extra pick and retain 1M or so). Canes have only 4 defenseman under contract right now, TVR being the 5th who is RFA. 4 of the 5 d-men are right handed. They have Jake Bean and Haydn Fleury in the minors who are signed, and are both LH. They could actually use a vet like Hunwick who is a lefty.

I'd then still look to move Sheary, with the goal of bringing in Grabner.

Guentzel-Crosby-Hornqvist
Skinner-Malkin-Grabner
Hagelin-Brassard-Kessel
ZAR-Sheahan-Rust
xDiPauli

Dumo-Letang
Maatta-Schultz
Oleksiak-TVR
xRuhwedel

You've got speed and defense on every line. It would be a stretch to make this work cap wise if Carolina didn't retain some salary. Hagelin leaves next year, Grabner is already on the roster as his replacement, and Hagelin's money goes towards Guentzel's salary. Have to figure out how to resign Skinner as well. That would be next year's problem, and could be when a Kessel or Letang trade is revisited....or even a guy like Schultz.

People will crap bricks giving up Sprong, but, he is still an unknown at this point. He may be a lethal 30 goal sniper. Or he could turn out to be a marginal scorer against NHL level defense/goalies and NHL speed. I would not give up Sprong for a 30+ year old forward, but for a 26 year old forward who can skate better than anyone in the league (not necessarily speed wise) and has put up 24, 37, 28, 18, and 33 goals over the past 5 years, that would be Rutherford's definition of WIN NOW and YEAR BY YEAR.

You know I've been preaching getting younger, but I would be on-board with a Skinner for Sprong level swap, provided that Sheary for Grabner happened as well.


How does a lineup like this work vs the salary cap? We want to get rid of our garbage and acquire a 30 goal scorer for it? As a Pens fan I am for it, but I wouldn't think Carolina will be
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby brwi on Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:41 am

FLPensFan wrote:I'd have concern about Skinner, Kessel, and Sprong all in the lineup, and how that affects the team defensively.


Rightfully so because it would likely be a nightmare. I don't think the Pens or anyone else could have 3 wingers in their top-9 that are that weak defensively. Kessel gets protected a little by being on the 3rd line, but in this case you got too many to hide. I worry about Kessel and Sprong at RW, much less adding Skinner. Not a good mix.

Still like Kessel/Sheary for Skinner/Faulk and trading Letang. Save some cap bucks and get younger. It's not that much of a loss of production and about a wash defensively, plus you're getting two guys in their prime and not 30+, and the return on Letang.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby pens_CT on Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:48 am

brwi wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:I'd have concern about Skinner, Kessel, and Sprong all in the lineup, and how that affects the team defensively.


Rightfully so because it would likely be a nightmare. I don't think the Pens or anyone else could have 3 wingers in their top-9 that are that weak defensively. Kessel gets protected a little by being on the 3rd line, but in this case you got too many to hide. I worry about Kessel and Sprong at RW, much less adding Skinner. Not a good mix.

Still like Kessel/Sheary for Skinner/Faulk and trading Letang. Save some cap bucks and get younger. It's not that much of a loss of production and about a wash defensively, plus you're getting two guys in their prime and not 30+, and the return on Letang.


You’re never going to get Kessel to agree to a Carolina trade, so it’s a mute point to even consider the possible return of such a move.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby KG on Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:59 am

FLPensFan wrote:
Skatingpen wrote:
KG wrote:What if the ask for Skinner was Sheary, Jarry and 1st rd pick? Another first round pick traded away. But I think we have to be all in this season. Brassard will more then likely not re-sign. And Skinner is in the last year of his deal. Load up!

Sid/Jake/Horny
Malkin/Skinner/Kessel
Brassard/Rust/Sprong
Sheahan/Hagelin/ZAR

Roll those 4 lines all game long.



Am i the only one not impressed by Skinner? He has been hurt a ton and is a perimeter player. Pass

He's averaged 78 games a season for the past 5 years. His concussion issues were long ago, and haven't been a problem for quite some time.
He's averaged 28 goals a season over the past 5 years. He's one of the best overall skaters in the league, thanks to his figure skating past.
But I wouldn't give up Sheary, Jarry, and a 1st for him. And I'm not sure Kessel, Skinner, and Sprong in a lineup is a good idea. They all have some level of defensive deficiency.


I agree FLP. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Sprong included in a deal for a top left wing. I think it’s safe to say that Sprong will never be a “Sully type” player. Should consider dealing him while his value is still relatively high.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby brwi on Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:56 am

pens_CT wrote:
brwi wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:I'd have concern about Skinner, Kessel, and Sprong all in the lineup, and how that affects the team defensively.


Rightfully so because it would likely be a nightmare. I don't think the Pens or anyone else could have 3 wingers in their top-9 that are that weak defensively. Kessel gets protected a little by being on the 3rd line, but in this case you got too many to hide. I worry about Kessel and Sprong at RW, much less adding Skinner. Not a good mix.

Still like Kessel/Sheary for Skinner/Faulk and trading Letang. Save some cap bucks and get younger. It's not that much of a loss of production and about a wash defensively, plus you're getting two guys in their prime and not 30+, and the return on Letang.


You’re never going to get Kessel to agree to a Carolina trade, so it’s a mute point to even consider the possible return of such a move.


Pens weren't on his 8 team "approved" list either when the Leafs dealt him and he agreed to waive it. While I doubt the Canes are one of those 8 teams that don't require his OK, players do waive their NTC/NMC sometimes. Depends on whether Phil is accepting of the fact that he's 3rd line RW in Pittsburgh no matter what and 1st team PP unit. He didn't play this post-season like a real happy guy.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby pens_CT on Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:06 am

brwi wrote:
pens_CT wrote:
brwi wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:I'd have concern about Skinner, Kessel, and Sprong all in the lineup, and how that affects the team defensively.


Rightfully so because it would likely be a nightmare. I don't think the Pens or anyone else could have 3 wingers in their top-9 that are that weak defensively. Kessel gets protected a little by being on the 3rd line, but in this case you got too many to hide. I worry about Kessel and Sprong at RW, much less adding Skinner. Not a good mix.

Still like Kessel/Sheary for Skinner/Faulk and trading Letang. Save some cap bucks and get younger. It's not that much of a loss of production and about a wash defensively, plus you're getting two guys in their prime and not 30+, and the return on Letang.


You’re never going to get Kessel to agree to a Carolina trade, so it’s a mute point to even consider the possible return of such a move.


Pens weren't on his 8 team "approved" list either when the Leafs dealt him and he agreed to waive it. While I doubt the Canes are one of those 8 teams that don't require his OK, players do waive their NTC/NMC sometimes. Depends on whether Phil is accepting of the fact that he's 3rd line RW in Pittsburgh no matter what and 1st team PP unit. He didn't play this post-season like a real happy guy.


Its one thing to waive your NMC/NTC for a contender, Carolina isn't close to being such a team, and doesn't project to be one for the foreseeable future.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby joker10277 on Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:17 am

murphydump55 wrote:Yup and yup to the last two posts about Skinner. He’s had 5 straight years of health but people think he’s always hurt? He’s a scorer but people aren’t impressed? What does this kid need to do? I could watch him skate all night, just awesome to see.


Scoring from he top two lines wasn’t their issue, a 4th line center playing 3rd line and no fourth line center was the issue, GMJR is saying he wants balance through the line up, Pens just don’t need Skinner and can’t afford what it would take to ge him
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Jim on Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:21 am

People might want to stop thinking in terms of Kessel being unhappy, angry and/or wanting to leave. The "writers" that wrote those stories have recently been proven, a few times, to basically have made up what they've said.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby brwi on Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:34 am

Jim wrote:People might want to stop thinking in terms of Kessel being unhappy, angry and/or wanting to leave. The "writers" that wrote those stories have recently been proven, a few times, to basically have made up what they've said.


True to some extent, but GMJR is the one who said that Kessel wants to play with Malkin, thus it can get implied that he's "unhappy." With his past in Boston and Toronto, he has a way of wearing out his welcome with coaches and becoming an unhappy player to begin with. His performance in the post-season this year looked like a guy who was pretty unhappy or injured. Injury was completely discounted by Sullivan.
Last edited by brwi on Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby brwi on Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:38 am

pens_CT wrote:Its one thing to waive your NMC/NTC for a contender, Carolina isn't close to being such a team, and doesn't project to be one for the foreseeable future.

True, but it also depends on the options if a team on the approved list also has interest and he really doesn't want to actually go there either. Carolina could sweeten the deal with lifetime hot dogs :D
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