2018 Summer Game Plan

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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Sun May 20, 2018 3:50 pm

Malkintent wrote:How much do you all think Kane and JVR will sign for? It seems unlikely for the Pens to get them but if they could unload Hagelin and Sheary for picks/cheap players, they should be able to sign one of them and a cheap plug who can't be more invisible in the bottom six than Sheary was.

JVR I'm thinking about 6M. I think that is the appropriate price for Kane as well, but there continue to be rumors he is asking for the moon. Never seen anything from Kane or his agent in writing about high salary demands. I also think if SJ has any interest, Kane would be stupid to not resign there. He fit in really well there after the trade.

As I wrote in another post just a few seconds ago, my concern is moving Sheary and Hagelin, and picking up JVR......are we still a speed team? Can the Penguins play their identity, or adjust their identity, without the fastest of the fast (Kessel and Hagelin types). Because the rest of the league has gotten faster.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby thehockeyguru on Sun May 20, 2018 5:21 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
Malkintent wrote:How much do you all think Kane and JVR will sign for? It seems unlikely for the Pens to get them but if they could unload Hagelin and Sheary for picks/cheap players, they should be able to sign one of them and a cheap plug who can't be more invisible in the bottom six than Sheary was.

JVR I'm thinking about 6M. I think that is the appropriate price for Kane as well, but there continue to be rumors he is asking for the moon. Never seen anything from Kane or his agent in writing about high salary demands. I also think if SJ has any interest, Kane would be stupid to not resign there. He fit in really well there after the trade.

As I wrote in another post just a few seconds ago, my concern is moving Sheary and Hagelin, and picking up JVR......are we still a speed team? Can the Penguins play their identity, or adjust their identity, without the fastest of the fast (Kessel and Hagelin types). Because the rest of the league has gotten faster.


I was always for trading Hagelin but now with only 1 year left I think the Pens should keep him and look to resign him to a more cap friendly number than the 4M he is receiving now. The Pens really saw the effect of losing Hagelin vs the Capitals, the forecheck was no where near the leave it was with Hagelin.

I am not as concerned with the forwards as I am with the defense. The Pens need to get better on the PK. Talking heads like MM can downplay the loss of Ian Cole all they want but this team was no where near as good defensively after losing Cole.

IF the Pens keep Letang they NEED to get away from playing him 25-29 minutes a night. They need to go back to the model of using all 3 pairings and spreading out the minutes. Schultz, Maatta, Oleksiak and whomever replaces Hunwick are all capable of playing 20 minutes a night and they should.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby largegarlic on Sun May 20, 2018 5:26 pm

I think the speed point is a good one. It seems (justifiably) that Sullivan is going to prioritize speed in terms of his lineup, and if players don't fit, they won't play. Are there others guys like Hagelin out there who might not put up that many points but are incredibly fast and could use that speed to create room for the Pens' skill guys? I know Grabner's a UFA, but I feel like he'll get overpaid coming off the season he had. I remember liking Jannik Hansen a couple years ago, but at least going by the stats, his game has fallen off a bit (I don't remember actually seeing him play this year).
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Pruezy11881 on Sun May 20, 2018 5:31 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
pens_CT wrote:You trade Brassard and you are one injury away from Sheahan playing in the top six. I think trading Letang and Sheary gives you enough space to upgrade the defense and find another LW in free agency.


One player the Pens have always been linked to that is a UFA is Tyler Bozak. If the Pens move Brassard, maybe Bozak is a 3C option with Sheahan moving to 4C?

I don't see the Penguins moving Brassard. The Penguins will not find another 3C with the skill level of Brassard for only 3M next season. They will chalk up his poor play to adjustment period and his injury, and give him another chance.

Only way I see Brassard being moved is in a multiple player deal with a 3C and some other piece coming back.


Ok. If Brassard isnt moved that really only leaves Sheary and Hunwick as the most likely pieces to be moved in order to get additional scoring depth at LW.

Those pieces alone arent going to bring it that type of top 6 LW, but at 5.25M that does create some room to sign someone via free agency.

-Kane and JVR are likely out of the Pens price range.
-Nash is a bit too old and both he and Maroon wouldnt really mesh well with the Pens speed game.
-Neal and Perron are both under the been there done that category.

So that really doesnt offer much on the UFA front.

I'd be for Perron. Hes playing on a speedy team in Vegas and his tenure here was with Johnston. I think he'd do alright with Sullivan as coach and a training camp in Sullivan's system.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby thehockeyguru on Sun May 20, 2018 5:33 pm

largegarlic wrote:I think the speed point is a good one. It seems (justifiably) that Sullivan is going to prioritize speed in terms of his lineup, and if players don't fit, they won't play. Are there others guys like Hagelin out there who might not put up that many points but are incredibly fast and could use that speed to create room for the Pens' skill guys? I know Grabner's a UFA, but I feel like he'll get overpaid coming off the season he had. I remember liking Jannik Hansen a couple years ago, but at least going by the stats, his game has fallen off a bit (I don't remember actually seeing him play this year).


Since moving to SJ from VAN he's been awful. I think he had 2 goals in 40 some games this season.

Guentzel - Crosby - Hornqvist is a very good 1st line and shouldnt be touched
Hagelin - Malkin - Kessel will be just fine when Kessel is healthy
??? - Brassard - Sprong will be a good line if they can find a Hornqvist type player to play inplace of Sheary. ZAR just isnt there yet.

ZAR / Kuhnhackl - Sheahan - Rust is a very reasonable 4th line.

Like I said, when everyone is healthy and with an upgrade at 3LW the Pens will be fine offensively. Defensively I'm not sure.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby DelPen on Sun May 20, 2018 6:20 pm

Really, the only moves needed are parlaying Sheary and Hunwick into a better defensemen, resign the rest of the RFA’s.

Simon on that third line with Brassard and Sprong would work. We just need to have a team on the same page ready for the playoffs and that wasn’t the case this year.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby largegarlic on Sun May 20, 2018 6:45 pm

DelPen wrote:Really, the only moves needed are parlaying Sheary and Hunwick into a better defensemen, resign the rest of the RFA’s.

Simon on that third line with Brassard and Sprong would work. We just need to have a team on the same page ready for the playoffs and that wasn’t the case this year.


Yeah, I'd pretty much be fine with this approach too. If someone is willing to overpay in a trade for Letang or Kessel, I'd be willing to entertain the offer, but other than that, I would say the highest probability of winning the Cup next year comes from more or less standing pat and hoping guys like Kessel, Letang, Brassard, and Murray rebound from below standard playoff performances.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby thehockeyguru on Sun May 20, 2018 6:50 pm

largegarlic wrote:
DelPen wrote:Really, the only moves needed are parlaying Sheary and Hunwick into a better defensemen, resign the rest of the RFA’s.

Simon on that third line with Brassard and Sprong would work. We just need to have a team on the same page ready for the playoffs and that wasn’t the case this year.


Yeah, I'd pretty much be fine with this approach too. If someone is willing to overpay in a trade for Letang or Kessel, I'd be willing to entertain the offer, but other than that, I would say the highest probability of winning the Cup next year comes from more or less standing pat and hoping guys like Kessel, Letang, Brassard, and Murray rebound from below standard playoff performances.


The Pens though would be a better team with Carlson instead of Letang. Not to mention anything they would get for Letang would be icing on the cake.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby pens_CT on Sun May 20, 2018 8:03 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
largegarlic wrote:
DelPen wrote:Really, the only moves needed are parlaying Sheary and Hunwick into a better defensemen, resign the rest of the RFA’s.

Simon on that third line with Brassard and Sprong would work. We just need to have a team on the same page ready for the playoffs and that wasn’t the case this year.


Yeah, I'd pretty much be fine with this approach too. If someone is willing to overpay in a trade for Letang or Kessel, I'd be willing to entertain the offer, but other than that, I would say the highest probability of winning the Cup next year comes from more or less standing pat and hoping guys like Kessel, Letang, Brassard, and Murray rebound from below standard playoff performances.


The Pens though would be a better team with Carlson instead of Letang. Not to mention anything they would get for Letang would be icing on the cake.


The Penguins may be a better team with Carlson, but to sign him as an UFA its going to take close to 58's current cap hit. That means either you are either taking picks/entry level contracts in the Letang deal, or you are moving other players to free space. I have a feeling anyone who wants to trade for Letang is gong to require a significant amount of salary to go in the Pens direction as part of the deal.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Antonio on Sun May 20, 2018 8:06 pm

I'd have to research it but off the top of my head I feel like people thought Carlson was **** before and suddenly he's the answer. Am I wrong?

The funny thing is that if Letang is as good as some claim, he'd be a steal at 7.5 without salary retained.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby pens_CT on Sun May 20, 2018 8:11 pm

People want Letang gone, so you look at free agency and see who is available to replace him and bingo Carlson is the next in line.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Durbano on Sun May 20, 2018 8:26 pm

Why wouldn't Washington do whatever it takes to re-sign their own guy?
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby pens_CT on Sun May 20, 2018 8:36 pm

Durbano wrote:Why wouldn't Washington do whatever it takes to re-sign their own guy?


I think most people figure if Washington hasn't signed him yet, the chances are good he will wait until July and see what he is worth on the open market. Once the crazy offers start I don't know if he will take a hometown discount to stay with the Capitals.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby thehockeyguru on Sun May 20, 2018 9:18 pm

Durbano wrote:Why wouldn't Washington do whatever it takes to re-sign their own guy?


The Caps will have 8.5M in cap space and only 4 signed defensemen. They also need to resign Grubauer who is an RFA.

They also have to sign Tom Wilson and Devante Smith Pelley who are RFAs. The Caps have zero chance of paying Carlson the 7M it will take.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby thehockeyguru on Sun May 20, 2018 9:19 pm

Antonio wrote:I'd have to research it but off the top of my head I feel like people thought Carlson was **** before and suddenly he's the answer. Am I wrong?

The funny thing is that if Letang is as good as some claim, he'd be a steal at 7.5 without salary retained.


I think a desperate team like Phoenix, Buffalo or even Detroit would take Letang.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Sun May 20, 2018 9:30 pm

largegarlic wrote:
DelPen wrote:Really, the only moves needed are parlaying Sheary and Hunwick into a better defensemen, resign the rest of the RFA’s.

Simon on that third line with Brassard and Sprong would work. We just need to have a team on the same page ready for the playoffs and that wasn’t the case this year.


Yeah, I'd pretty much be fine with this approach too. If someone is willing to overpay in a trade for Letang or Kessel, I'd be willing to entertain the offer, but other than that, I would say the highest probability of winning the Cup next year comes from more or less standing pat and hoping guys like Kessel, Letang, Brassard, and Murray rebound from below standard playoff performances.

I'm still pretty dead set that LW position needs upgraded. The LW position is weak after Guentzel, and our top 3 RWs can't play the LW if needed. That's a recipe for failure IMO.

Hagelin should not be a top 6 option. It's great to get him with Malkin every once in awhile, but he doesn't produce enough to be a top 6 mainstay. His speed helps occassionally, but not enough in my book to be in the top 6.

It doesn't have to be a Kane, JVR, or Skinner....but the team needs a better option at LW.....otherwise, you might as well keep Sheary. But without a LW pickup, the team is very thin on who steps up. Guentzel goes down, you have nobody on LW that I see as dependable enough to get even a guaranteed 30 points.

LW and bottom pairing d-man. I like De Haan and Hickey for UFA d-men, and Hickey should be cheaper by at least 1M over De Haan.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby thehockeyguru on Sun May 20, 2018 9:39 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
largegarlic wrote:
DelPen wrote:Really, the only moves needed are parlaying Sheary and Hunwick into a better defensemen, resign the rest of the RFA’s.

Simon on that third line with Brassard and Sprong would work. We just need to have a team on the same page ready for the playoffs and that wasn’t the case this year.


Yeah, I'd pretty much be fine with this approach too. If someone is willing to overpay in a trade for Letang or Kessel, I'd be willing to entertain the offer, but other than that, I would say the highest probability of winning the Cup next year comes from more or less standing pat and hoping guys like Kessel, Letang, Brassard, and Murray rebound from below standard playoff performances.

I'm still pretty dead set that LW position needs upgraded. The LW position is weak after Guentzel, and our top 3 RWs can't play the LW if needed. That's a recipe for failure IMO.

Hagelin should not be a top 6 option. It's great to get him with Malkin every once in awhile, but he doesn't produce enough to be a top 6 mainstay. His speed helps occassionally, but not enough in my book to be in the top 6.

It doesn't have to be a Kane, JVR, or Skinner....but the team needs a better option at LW.....otherwise, you might as well keep Sheary. But without a LW pickup, the team is very thin on who steps up. Guentzel goes down, you have nobody on LW that I see as dependable enough to get even a guaranteed 30 points.

LW and bottom pairing d-man. I like De Haan and Hickey for UFA d-men, and Hickey should be cheaper by at least 1M over De Haan.


If you have Malkin and Kessel on the line Hagelin IMO is fine. You don't need another shooter.

Who would you target to play LW with Brassard and Sprong?
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby pens_CT on Sun May 20, 2018 9:48 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
largegarlic wrote:
DelPen wrote:Really, the only moves needed are parlaying Sheary and Hunwick into a better defensemen, resign the rest of the RFA’s.

Simon on that third line with Brassard and Sprong would work. We just need to have a team on the same page ready for the playoffs and that wasn’t the case this year.


Yeah, I'd pretty much be fine with this approach too. If someone is willing to overpay in a trade for Letang or Kessel, I'd be willing to entertain the offer, but other than that, I would say the highest probability of winning the Cup next year comes from more or less standing pat and hoping guys like Kessel, Letang, Brassard, and Murray rebound from below standard playoff performances.

I'm still pretty dead set that LW position needs upgraded. The LW position is weak after Guentzel, and our top 3 RWs can't play the LW if needed. That's a recipe for failure IMO.

Hagelin should not be a top 6 option. It's great to get him with Malkin every once in awhile, but he doesn't produce enough to be a top 6 mainstay. His speed helps occassionally, but not enough in my book to be in the top 6.

It doesn't have to be a Kane, JVR, or Skinner....but the team needs a better option at LW.....otherwise, you might as well keep Sheary. But without a LW pickup, the team is very thin on who steps up. Guentzel goes down, you have nobody on LW that I see as dependable enough to get even a guaranteed 30 points.

LW and bottom pairing d-man. I like De Haan and Hickey for UFA d-men, and Hickey should be cheaper by at least 1M over De Haan.


The UFA options at LW beyond JVR and Kane are pretty lousy if you expect him to play in the top six. If you want an upgrade over Hagelin for Geno, it will require a fairly major trade to get that kind of player. I think the better option is to make Brassard the 2nd line LW, and find another center in free agency for the bottom six.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Daniel on Mon May 21, 2018 1:10 am

pens_CT wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
largegarlic wrote:
DelPen wrote:Really, the only moves needed are parlaying Sheary and Hunwick into a better defensemen, resign the rest of the RFA’s.

Simon on that third line with Brassard and Sprong would work. We just need to have a team on the same page ready for the playoffs and that wasn’t the case this year.


Yeah, I'd pretty much be fine with this approach too. If someone is willing to overpay in a trade for Letang or Kessel, I'd be willing to entertain the offer, but other than that, I would say the highest probability of winning the Cup next year comes from more or less standing pat and hoping guys like Kessel, Letang, Brassard, and Murray rebound from below standard playoff performances.

I'm still pretty dead set that LW position needs upgraded. The LW position is weak after Guentzel, and our top 3 RWs can't play the LW if needed. That's a recipe for failure IMO.

Hagelin should not be a top 6 option. It's great to get him with Malkin every once in awhile, but he doesn't produce enough to be a top 6 mainstay. His speed helps occassionally, but not enough in my book to be in the top 6.

It doesn't have to be a Kane, JVR, or Skinner....but the team needs a better option at LW.....otherwise, you might as well keep Sheary. But without a LW pickup, the team is very thin on who steps up. Guentzel goes down, you have nobody on LW that I see as dependable enough to get even a guaranteed 30 points.

LW and bottom pairing d-man. I like De Haan and Hickey for UFA d-men, and Hickey should be cheaper by at least 1M over De Haan.


The UFA options at LW beyond JVR and Kane are pretty lousy if you expect him to play in the top six. If you want an upgrade over Hagelin for Geno, it will require a fairly major trade to get that kind of player. I think the better option is to make Brassard the 2nd line LW, and find another center in free agency for the bottom six.


Ilya Kovalchuk or James Neal or David Perron....okay probably not.

Magnus Paajarvi was a 10th overall pick and could come cheap. Seems like a low risk move for someone who might turn the corner as an NHLer

http://forecaster.thehockeynews.com/player/6555

The only other names that could be low risk gambles are Alexandre Grenier, Gabriel Bourque and Blake Comeau (just because he seemed to do well with Malkin).

Otherwise, you're right LW is a pretty shallow pool this year.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby thehockeyguru on Mon May 21, 2018 8:09 am

I just can't see Kovalchuk fitting in with HCMS. He barely tolerates Kessel and refused to use Sprong.

Brassard to LW would make sense if you could add Bozak to 3C.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby pens_CT on Mon May 21, 2018 8:30 am

thehockeyguru wrote:I just can't see Kovalchuk fitting in with HCMS. He barely tolerates Kessel and refused to use Sprong.

Brassard to LW would make sense if you could add Bozak to 3C.


The question about Bozak is how much money and term does he want? He's 32 and coming off an 11 goal/43 point season, I don't know whether that translates into the 4 million/yr deal he was making last season.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Mon May 21, 2018 9:25 am

pens_CT wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
largegarlic wrote:
DelPen wrote:Really, the only moves needed are parlaying Sheary and Hunwick into a better defensemen, resign the rest of the RFA’s.

Simon on that third line with Brassard and Sprong would work. We just need to have a team on the same page ready for the playoffs and that wasn’t the case this year.


Yeah, I'd pretty much be fine with this approach too. If someone is willing to overpay in a trade for Letang or Kessel, I'd be willing to entertain the offer, but other than that, I would say the highest probability of winning the Cup next year comes from more or less standing pat and hoping guys like Kessel, Letang, Brassard, and Murray rebound from below standard playoff performances.

I'm still pretty dead set that LW position needs upgraded. The LW position is weak after Guentzel, and our top 3 RWs can't play the LW if needed. That's a recipe for failure IMO.

Hagelin should not be a top 6 option. It's great to get him with Malkin every once in awhile, but he doesn't produce enough to be a top 6 mainstay. His speed helps occassionally, but not enough in my book to be in the top 6.

It doesn't have to be a Kane, JVR, or Skinner....but the team needs a better option at LW.....otherwise, you might as well keep Sheary. But without a LW pickup, the team is very thin on who steps up. Guentzel goes down, you have nobody on LW that I see as dependable enough to get even a guaranteed 30 points.

LW and bottom pairing d-man. I like De Haan and Hickey for UFA d-men, and Hickey should be cheaper by at least 1M over De Haan.


The UFA options at LW beyond JVR and Kane are pretty lousy if you expect him to play in the top six. If you want an upgrade over Hagelin for Geno, it will require a fairly major trade to get that kind of player. I think the better option is to make Brassard the 2nd line LW, and find another center in free agency for the bottom six.

JVR, Skinner, or some other possible trade. Otherwise, I proposed what you say above....move Brassard to LW, Sheahan to 3C, and sign Derek Ryan or Riley Nash as your 4C. There are a lot of different options.

I honestly wouldn't mind seeing a ZAR-Crosby-Sprong line to start the season, with Guentzel and Hornqvist flanking Geno, and Brassard with Kessel. But, while I think ZAR had some success with Crosby early and never got a chance again after his first injury, banking on both of those two meshing well with Crosby would be a big gamble.

Really not sure what is going to happen. About the only thing I am fairly confident in is that at least one player is going to be traded, whether its Sheary, Hunwick, Hagelin, or a bigger name like Kessel or Letang.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby pens_CT on Mon May 21, 2018 9:38 am

FLPensFan wrote:
pens_CT wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
largegarlic wrote:
DelPen wrote:Really, the only moves needed are parlaying Sheary and Hunwick into a better defensemen, resign the rest of the RFA’s.

Simon on that third line with Brassard and Sprong would work. We just need to have a team on the same page ready for the playoffs and that wasn’t the case this year.


Yeah, I'd pretty much be fine with this approach too. If someone is willing to overpay in a trade for Letang or Kessel, I'd be willing to entertain the offer, but other than that, I would say the highest probability of winning the Cup next year comes from more or less standing pat and hoping guys like Kessel, Letang, Brassard, and Murray rebound from below standard playoff performances.

I'm still pretty dead set that LW position needs upgraded. The LW position is weak after Guentzel, and our top 3 RWs can't play the LW if needed. That's a recipe for failure IMO.

Hagelin should not be a top 6 option. It's great to get him with Malkin every once in awhile, but he doesn't produce enough to be a top 6 mainstay. His speed helps occassionally, but not enough in my book to be in the top 6.

It doesn't have to be a Kane, JVR, or Skinner....but the team needs a better option at LW.....otherwise, you might as well keep Sheary. But without a LW pickup, the team is very thin on who steps up. Guentzel goes down, you have nobody on LW that I see as dependable enough to get even a guaranteed 30 points.

LW and bottom pairing d-man. I like De Haan and Hickey for UFA d-men, and Hickey should be cheaper by at least 1M over De Haan.


The UFA options at LW beyond JVR and Kane are pretty lousy if you expect him to play in the top six. If you want an upgrade over Hagelin for Geno, it will require a fairly major trade to get that kind of player. I think the better option is to make Brassard the 2nd line LW, and find another center in free agency for the bottom six.

JVR, Skinner, or some other possible trade. Otherwise, I proposed what you say above....move Brassard to LW, Sheahan to 3C, and sign Derek Ryan or Riley Nash as your 4C. There are a lot of different options.

I honestly wouldn't mind seeing a ZAR-Crosby-Sprong line to start the season, with Guentzel and Hornqvist flanking Geno, and Brassard with Kessel. But, while I think ZAR had some success with Crosby early and never got a chance again after his first injury, banking on both of those two meshing well with Crosby would be a big gamble.

Really not sure what is going to happen. About the only thing I am fairly confident in is that at least one player is going to be traded, whether its Sheary, Hunwick, Hagelin, or a bigger name like Kessel or Letang.


Yeah Riley Nash is an interesting player who is coming off a career year, 15 goals/41 points. His previous high was 10 goals and 25 points, and he made 900k last year. Interesting to see how much he wants, since I have a feeling his numbers last year were an anomaly
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby brwi on Mon May 21, 2018 9:59 am

As far as having a #1 dman in Letang and needing another dman very similar to replace him if he's moved, Vegas is doing quite nicely with their #1A dman being Nate Schmidt, and #1B for PP, Colin Miller. Neither of those 2 are along the lines of a star top pairing dman. While I don't think Schultz is top pairing either, a replacement for Letang can be found that doesn't cost 7mil+. So you might lose points and some minutes(too many) logged every game, but you also lose his defensive liabilities and the very real chance that he's starting to fade, plus you get more cap room. If he stays and Sully keeps over-using him, he's going to fade even quicker coming up next season.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby DelPen on Mon May 21, 2018 10:56 am

Carlson projector to go for over $8 million. Insanity. Wouldn’t have made more sense for the players that instead of a cap that keeps escalating and you now have a guy like Carlson going to make almost as much as Crosby that salary cap would have remained fairly flat but the pension fund would be increased each year so a guy who was making $400K would pretty much get that for the rest of his life?
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