2018 Summer Game Plan

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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:53 pm

Sigwolf wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
ville5 wrote:Skinner to Buffalo for a bag of Pu. And '19 2nd and '20 3rd and 6th.

This would tell me Rutherford wasn't anywhere near as interested as media folks made it seem. Pu is a nothing, top 9, bottom 6 type prospect. Unless Carolina was totally unwilling to take back any cap space, Penguins had the assets to get Skinner.

Buffalo is having a tremendous summer. O'Reilly deal still a bit questionable and leaves them still needing a top center, but they now have Reinhart, Okposo, Sheary, and Skinner as their top wings, which isn't horrible. A solid #2 center (too early for me to count on Middlestadt there), and an upgrade in goal, and they will be a team to watch.

Seriously? The Sabres have the track record of the Nutting-Pirates... if anyone performs, they will be unloaded for "prospects" by mid-season or the deadline. There is no justifying their transaction history.

The past is the past. GMs change, and Botteril is killing it there right now. He picked up Sheary, Sobotka, and Berglund. He got a stud #1 overall defenseman. Maybe improved in goal. They have over 6M in cap space to resign Reinhart. Sabres have THREE first round picks next year.

I look at Buffalo and Carolina, and I see Carolina much closer resembling a Nutting run team than Buffalo. The only forward Carolina has a long-term committment to is Staal, and I'm willing to bet they would dump him in a heartbeat if they could.

If Waddell went to all 30 other teams and that was the best he could get, then he should have held onto Skinner until the trade deadline, where he would have been in higher demand. That is a putrid deal for a guy that scored 37 goals two years ago, and consistently scores 20 plus every year.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Jim on Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:28 pm

FLPensFan wrote:This would tell me Rutherford wasn't anywhere near as interested as media folks made it seem.


What? The media being wrong about rumors? Noooooooo....
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:59 pm

Jim wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:This would tell me Rutherford wasn't anywhere near as interested as media folks made it seem.


What? The media being wrong about rumors? Noooooooo....

Carolina GM Waddell later said Skinner gave him a very limited list of teams he would accept for a trade.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby ville5 on Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:33 pm

Jim wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:This would tell me Rutherford wasn't anywhere near as interested as media folks made it seem.


What? The media being wrong about rumors? Noooooooo....

Not necessarily. It's entirely possible that GMJR couldn't reach an extension with Skinner that was agreeable to both Skinner and our Cap. He's gonna get paid.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Pitts on Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:32 pm

Jim wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:This would tell me Rutherford wasn't anywhere near as interested as media folks made it seem.


What? The media being wrong about rumors? Noooooooo....

Carolina obviously was not interested in players that pulled down NHL paychecks here. Pens would have had to shed a lot of salary to land Skinner.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Hatrick on Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:42 am

penny lane wrote:Sprong may be the first penguin whipping boy with less than fifty NHL games played. Of course Brassard got there with less games.
Somebody on Twitter lamenting that GMJR missed out on Skinner. Small potatoes.

in sprongs defense the problem was the management(or technically mismanagement) of him. He should still be in the AHL this year but because of playing him for a dozen games when he shouldn't have been playing they lack that option.
As for Skinner, I would have really liked to get him if the price was right and it appears it wasn't as high as some other people thought but one thing Carolina didn't do was take back/retain salary which would be one requirement if the pens were to get him since the pens only about 1m cap room depending on who they send down to start the season and his salary is close to 6. Even if they retained 50% they would need to take alittle NHL salary in return.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby ville5 on Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:22 am

Pitts wrote:
Jim wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:This would tell me Rutherford wasn't anywhere near as interested as media folks made it seem.


What? The media being wrong about rumors? Noooooooo....

Carolina obviously was not interested in players that pulled down NHL paychecks here. Pens would have had to shed a lot of salary to land Skinner.

Excellent point Pitts. Also, as a pure rental, GMJR would've had to best Buffalos offer. Which equates to a 2nd, two 3rds and a 6th.
It wouldve started with our first then whatever picks to make up the difference in Waddell's mind.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Daniel on Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:45 am

ville5 wrote:
Pitts wrote:
Jim wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:This would tell me Rutherford wasn't anywhere near as interested as media folks made it seem.


What? The media being wrong about rumors? Noooooooo....

Carolina obviously was not interested in players that pulled down NHL paychecks here. Pens would have had to shed a lot of salary to land Skinner.

Excellent point Pitts. Also, as a pure rental, GMJR would've had to best Buffalos offer. Which equates to a 2nd, two 3rds and a 6th.
It wouldve started with our first then whatever picks to make up the difference in Waddell's mind.


I think Waddell could have gotten a better return if he were able to take back salary. How many teams would have had to shed salary to make the trade, therefore not making an offer to Carolina? Skinner might be a good player, but isn't worth trading salary to another team hoping to be able to get him and I imagine 3 way trades are pretty hard this time of year.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Fri Aug 03, 2018 10:27 am

Anyone remember that Mark Stone was asking for 9M in arbitration? Ottawa just avoided arbitration with him for a 1 year deal worth 7.35M. At first, I thought that was a horrible deal, but, I do see including last season, Stone has 3 60 point seasons, and has scored 20 or more goals in each of his 4 full seasons. His lowest point total was 54 points. Still more than I would like to see guys get paid for that output, but, it is in line with what others of that production are getting.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Cow_Master66 on Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:40 am

FLPensFan wrote:Anyone remember that Mark Stone was asking for 9M in arbitration? Ottawa just avoided arbitration with him for a 1 year deal worth 7.35M. At first, I thought that was a horrible deal, but, I do see including last season, Stone has 3 60 point seasons, and has scored 20 or more goals in each of his 4 full seasons. His lowest point total was 54 points. Still more than I would like to see guys get paid for that output, but, it is in line with what others of that production are getting.


Yet we have Brassard who's put up fairly similar numbers, plays a more important position, has a history of producing in the playoffs, and we are paying him a fraction of Stone's salary yet people wanna trade him.

Go figure... :pop:
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Pitts on Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:48 am

Cow_Master66 wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Anyone remember that Mark Stone was asking for 9M in arbitration? Ottawa just avoided arbitration with him for a 1 year deal worth 7.35M. At first, I thought that was a horrible deal, but, I do see including last season, Stone has 3 60 point seasons, and has scored 20 or more goals in each of his 4 full seasons. His lowest point total was 54 points. Still more than I would like to see guys get paid for that output, but, it is in line with what others of that production are getting.


Yet we have Brassard who's put up fairly similar numbers, plays a more important position, has a history of producing in the playoffs, and we are paying him a fraction of Stone's salary yet people wanna trade him.

Go figure... :pop:

I don't want to trade Brassard. I'm just not convinced he's happy here playing 3rd fiddle center. And really, outside of Maatta or Dumoulin, who are you going to trade to get that elusive left wing?
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:05 pm

Cow_Master66 wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Anyone remember that Mark Stone was asking for 9M in arbitration? Ottawa just avoided arbitration with him for a 1 year deal worth 7.35M. At first, I thought that was a horrible deal, but, I do see including last season, Stone has 3 60 point seasons, and has scored 20 or more goals in each of his 4 full seasons. His lowest point total was 54 points. Still more than I would like to see guys get paid for that output, but, it is in line with what others of that production are getting.


Yet we have Brassard who's put up fairly similar numbers, plays a more important position, has a history of producing in the playoffs, and we are paying him a fraction of Stone's salary yet people wanna trade him.

Go figure... :pop:

I get and agree with your overall premise but....fairly similar numbers is quite a stretch. In 8 full seasons (not counting lockout or early years with under 40 games), Brassard has eclipsed 20 goals just twice, and his two highest point totals are 60 and 58. Other than those two seasons, he has never surpassed 50 points in a season.

As Pitts said, it's not that I want to move him, it's just that I don't think he is thrilled about 3rd line minutes and 2nd PP duty. He's used to more, and has made hints that he wants more TOI.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:06 pm

Pitts wrote:
Cow_Master66 wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Anyone remember that Mark Stone was asking for 9M in arbitration? Ottawa just avoided arbitration with him for a 1 year deal worth 7.35M. At first, I thought that was a horrible deal, but, I do see including last season, Stone has 3 60 point seasons, and has scored 20 or more goals in each of his 4 full seasons. His lowest point total was 54 points. Still more than I would like to see guys get paid for that output, but, it is in line with what others of that production are getting.


Yet we have Brassard who's put up fairly similar numbers, plays a more important position, has a history of producing in the playoffs, and we are paying him a fraction of Stone's salary yet people wanna trade him.

Go figure... :pop:

I don't want to trade Brassard. I'm just not convinced he's happy here playing 3rd fiddle center. And really, outside of Maatta or Dumoulin, who are you going to trade to get that elusive left wing?

Justin Schultz..... :pop:
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Jim on Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:11 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
Cow_Master66 wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Anyone remember that Mark Stone was asking for 9M in arbitration? Ottawa just avoided arbitration with him for a 1 year deal worth 7.35M. At first, I thought that was a horrible deal, but, I do see including last season, Stone has 3 60 point seasons, and has scored 20 or more goals in each of his 4 full seasons. His lowest point total was 54 points. Still more than I would like to see guys get paid for that output, but, it is in line with what others of that production are getting.


Yet we have Brassard who's put up fairly similar numbers, plays a more important position, has a history of producing in the playoffs, and we are paying him a fraction of Stone's salary yet people wanna trade him.

Go figure... :pop:

I get and agree with your overall premise but....fairly similar numbers is quite a stretch. In 8 full seasons (not counting lockout or early years with under 40 games), Brassard has eclipsed 20 goals just twice, and his two highest point totals are 60 and 58. Other than those two seasons, he has never surpassed 50 points in a season.

As Pitts said, it's not that I want to move him, it's just that I don't think he is thrilled about 3rd line minutes and 2nd PP duty. He's used to more, and has made hints that he wants more TOI.


Actually, the smart thing to do... which you know won't happen because, you know, the Pens coaching staff... would be to use the 3rd line more and give Crosby and Malkin a minute or two less time per game. Especially if you are goingto have Kessel on the 3rd too. Brassard and Kessel could have been a top line in Toronto or Ottawa (where Kessel and brassard came from). That way Brassard and Kessel get more 5v5 time and Crosby and Malkin save some gas. If you are going to lineup like you have 3 scoring lines, then play like you have 3 scoring lines.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Henry Hank on Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:46 pm

I don't see any situation in which you're playing two of the best players in hockey less minutes makes you better. They are not elderly and they just had a relatively early exit. They should be amongst the most used forwards in hockey next season.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Pitts on Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:05 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
Pitts wrote:
Cow_Master66 wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Anyone remember that Mark Stone was asking for 9M in arbitration? Ottawa just avoided arbitration with him for a 1 year deal worth 7.35M. At first, I thought that was a horrible deal, but, I do see including last season, Stone has 3 60 point seasons, and has scored 20 or more goals in each of his 4 full seasons. His lowest point total was 54 points. Still more than I would like to see guys get paid for that output, but, it is in line with what others of that production are getting.


Yet we have Brassard who's put up fairly similar numbers, plays a more important position, has a history of producing in the playoffs, and we are paying him a fraction of Stone's salary yet people wanna trade him.

Go figure... :pop:

I don't want to trade Brassard. I'm just not convinced he's happy here playing 3rd fiddle center. And really, outside of Maatta or Dumoulin, who are you going to trade to get that elusive left wing?

Justin Schultz..... :pop:

Thought of him. You think there's much of a market for him out there?

My thinking is still: Montreal needs top centers. They will move Pacioretty. Match made in heaven.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Pitts on Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:08 pm

Henry Hank wrote:I don't see any situation in which you're playing two of the best players in hockey less minutes makes you better. They are not elderly and they just had a relatively early exit. They should be amongst the most used forwards in hockey next season.

Eh, when Staal was here, the 3 of them each averaged around 20 minutes a game give or take a few mins each. Now, that was back in 2009, but still, it's been done. And I actually thought Sullivan was doing that when the HBK line was a thing? I just think he hasn't found a 3rd line he's willing to do that with again yet. I'm hoping Brassard has a bounce-back campaign that will make it possible again.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Daniel on Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:14 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
Cow_Master66 wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Anyone remember that Mark Stone was asking for 9M in arbitration? Ottawa just avoided arbitration with him for a 1 year deal worth 7.35M. At first, I thought that was a horrible deal, but, I do see including last season, Stone has 3 60 point seasons, and has scored 20 or more goals in each of his 4 full seasons. His lowest point total was 54 points. Still more than I would like to see guys get paid for that output, but, it is in line with what others of that production are getting.


Yet we have Brassard who's put up fairly similar numbers, plays a more important position, has a history of producing in the playoffs, and we are paying him a fraction of Stone's salary yet people wanna trade him.

Go figure... :pop:

I get and agree with your overall premise but....fairly similar numbers is quite a stretch. In 8 full seasons (not counting lockout or early years with under 40 games), Brassard has eclipsed 20 goals just twice, and his two highest point totals are 60 and 58. Other than those two seasons, he has never surpassed 50 points in a season.

As Pitts said, it's not that I want to move him, it's just that I don't think he is thrilled about 3rd line minutes and 2nd PP duty. He's used to more, and has made hints that he wants more TOI.


But what also needs to be taken into consideration is that this is a contract year for Brassard, so will he cause problems asking for more ice time to increase his UFA value?
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Great58 on Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:00 pm

FLPensFan wrote:Anyone remember that Mark Stone was asking for 9M in arbitration? Ottawa just avoided arbitration with him for a 1 year deal worth 7.35M. At first, I thought that was a horrible deal, but, I do see including last season, Stone has 3 60 point seasons, and has scored 20 or more goals in each of his 4 full seasons. His lowest point total was 54 points. Still more than I would like to see guys get paid for that output, but, it is in line with what others of that production are getting.

I thought that he was trying to price himself out of Ottawa. No surprise it's a one year deal.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:08 pm

Great58 wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Anyone remember that Mark Stone was asking for 9M in arbitration? Ottawa just avoided arbitration with him for a 1 year deal worth 7.35M. At first, I thought that was a horrible deal, but, I do see including last season, Stone has 3 60 point seasons, and has scored 20 or more goals in each of his 4 full seasons. His lowest point total was 54 points. Still more than I would like to see guys get paid for that output, but, it is in line with what others of that production are getting.

I thought that he was trying to price himself out of Ottawa. No surprise it's a one year deal.

And Codi Ceci just got 4.3M awarded in arbitration. His ask was 6M, team was offering 3.3M

Ottawa has only 3 players signed beyond next seasion (19-20).....Bobby Ryan, Marian Gaborik and Zack Smith. I believe they have 25 expiring contracts (UFA and RFA) at the end of this season.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby ville5 on Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:22 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
Great58 wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Anyone remember that Mark Stone was asking for 9M in arbitration? Ottawa just avoided arbitration with him for a 1 year deal worth 7.35M. At first, I thought that was a horrible deal, but, I do see including last season, Stone has 3 60 point seasons, and has scored 20 or more goals in each of his 4 full seasons. His lowest point total was 54 points. Still more than I would like to see guys get paid for that output, but, it is in line with what others of that production are getting.

I thought that he was trying to price himself out of Ottawa. No surprise it's a one year deal.

And Codi Ceci just got 4.3M awarded in arbitration. His ask was 6M, team was offering 3.3M

Ottawa has only 3 players signed beyond next seasion (19-20).....Bobby Ryan, Marian Gaborik and Zack Smith. I believe they have 25 expiring contracts (UFA and RFA) at the end of this season.

Priming to sell?
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Cow_Master66 on Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:25 pm

Henry Hank wrote:I don't see any situation in which you're playing two of the best players in hockey less minutes makes you better. They are not elderly and they just had a relatively early exit. They should be amongst the most used forwards in hockey next season.


It doesn't make you better in the regular season, it makes you better when it matters.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Great58 on Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:26 pm

ville5 wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
Great58 wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Anyone remember that Mark Stone was asking for 9M in arbitration? Ottawa just avoided arbitration with him for a 1 year deal worth 7.35M. At first, I thought that was a horrible deal, but, I do see including last season, Stone has 3 60 point seasons, and has scored 20 or more goals in each of his 4 full seasons. His lowest point total was 54 points. Still more than I would like to see guys get paid for that output, but, it is in line with what others of that production are getting.

I thought that he was trying to price himself out of Ottawa. No surprise it's a one year deal.

And Codi Ceci just got 4.3M awarded in arbitration. His ask was 6M, team was offering 3.3M

Ottawa has only 3 players signed beyond next seasion (19-20).....Bobby Ryan, Marian Gaborik and Zack Smith. I believe they have 25 expiring contracts (UFA and RFA) at the end of this season.

Priming to sell?

And no first round draft pick. :scared:
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Hatrick on Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:36 pm

Henry Hank wrote:I don't see any situation in which you're playing two of the best players in hockey less minutes makes you better. They are not elderly and they just had a relatively early exit. They should be amongst the most used forwards in hockey next season.

it keeps the team better late into the season hopefully, also if they are spending slightly less minutes on the ice usually it means those minutes can be slightly higher quality if they aren't as tired out. When you don't have a good third or fourth line you are going to rely on them more but when you have brassard and kessel possibly being your third line you have one of the best third lines in hockey. So by decreasing the ice time of the top two lines by say a minute a game that leaves you able to allocate an extra 2 minutes to the third line, giving those guys the ice time to make their minutes also more effective.
They are in the perfect situation that playing the top two less actually should make everyone more effective when they are on the ice.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby longtimefan on Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:44 pm

Jim wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
Cow_Master66 wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Anyone remember that Mark Stone was asking for 9M in arbitration? Ottawa just avoided arbitration with him for a 1 year deal worth 7.35M. At first, I thought that was a horrible deal, but, I do see including last season, Stone has 3 60 point seasons, and has scored 20 or more goals in each of his 4 full seasons. His lowest point total was 54 points. Still more than I would like to see guys get paid for that output, but, it is in line with what others of that production are getting.


Yet we have Brassard who's put up fairly similar numbers, plays a more important position, has a history of producing in the playoffs, and we are paying him a fraction of Stone's salary yet people wanna trade him.

Go figure... :pop:

I get and agree with your overall premise but....fairly similar numbers is quite a stretch. In 8 full seasons (not counting lockout or early years with under 40 games), Brassard has eclipsed 20 goals just twice, and his two highest point totals are 60 and 58. Other than those two seasons, he has never surpassed 50 points in a season.

As Pitts said, it's not that I want to move him, it's just that I don't think he is thrilled about 3rd line minutes and 2nd PP duty. He's used to more, and has made hints that he wants more TOI.


Actually, the smart thing to do... which you know won't happen because, you know, the Pens coaching staff... would be to use the 3rd line more and give Crosby and Malkin a minute or two less time per game. Especially if you are goingto have Kessel on the 3rd too. Brassard and Kessel could have been a top line in Toronto or Ottawa (where Kessel and brassard came from). That way Brassard and Kessel get more 5v5 time and Crosby and Malkin save some gas. If you are going to lineup like you have 3 scoring lines, then play like you have 3 scoring lines.


I think that's been the plan all along. Look at teams around the league building their center depth to roll more offensive lines. If you look at the last two cup years, Sid averaged about 20 minutes a night, Geno around 18, Bonino 16, and Cullen between 13 and 14. A lot of it was special teams, but all four centers got ample ice time. Which was why they conducted the season long quest in search of a 3C. Sullivan wants Kessel on the third line, and then he wants to roll them. With a good helping of the 4th line as well. Sid and Geno are still forces, but they're on the back nine. They've won Art Ross trophies, Hart trophies, and 3 Cups. Individual accolades shouldn't mean much. And we all know what a grind a long playoff run is. There's no reason for them to have to play 20+ minutes a night. Keep everybody a little fresher for when it matters.

In a really small sample size, Kessel had his best advanced stats with Rust. So did Brassard. They were a line for two games, and Jason Mackey brought it up. Their CF% was out of sight, and I was impressed by them as well. It's what the Pens are hoping for. They would like to build the chemistry between Brassard and Kessel. So they can have the superstar on different lines. That is a very fast line when they play with Rust.
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