2018 Summer Game Plan

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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Great58 on Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:40 pm

FLPensFan wrote:I would need to see some more specifics that I have not seen.....specifically, when the test request was made and when he was tested. In the offseason, if they request a drug test, you have two weeks to take that test. It's all conjecture, but a player that is trying to get something flushed out of their system is probably going to push the limits of when they submit to the test (ie, towards the end of that two week period).

Katie Strang has been doing killer work all year long with the Athletic, and she did a piece on this as well. Among the comments are the fact that Schmidt believes a piece of tainted meat may have been the cause. Might sound far-fetched, but Strang gave an example of an NFL player in 2016 that had a similar statement a few years ago. He was cleared after the NFLPA was able to trace it back to tainted meat the player ate in Mexico during his bye week. Boxer Canelo Anthony was also cited, who went through the same thing with contaminated meat. Anthony submitted to a hair follicle test, which came back negative, and provided more credibility to his statement of the source.

As you said, NHL and NHLPA have agreed on the system, but, it seems like there needs to be a better appeals system built in. I think some here believe it is easy to keep track of all this stuff. It's not. Imagine if you were subject to random drug tests at your work, you knew you were 100% clean, but tested positive for something in a trace amount like this. How would you even begin to track this stuff down, without having the resources a professional baseball player has at their disposal?

Here's the Strang article: https://theathletic.com/507940/2018/09/06/questions-about-drug-testing-in-the-nhl-surface-following-nate-schmidts-suspension/

Speculating without ANY of the specifics, particularly what the substance was, is meaningless. Is he mircodosing? Was the detected agent a masking agent to hide other PED use? There is a reason that drugs that may seemingly be innocent are banned, and that quantities that seem minuscule are still considered a violation. But I have to comment that the tainted meat (or food) while on holiday is one of the most commonly grasped-at straw in the doping denial book. Alberto Contador, two time Tour De France winning cyclist, tested positive for clenbuterol, a prohibited drug by the World Anti-Doping Agency. "Tainted Spanish beef" was his argument, which failed.

I think some organizations go out of their way to NOT catch their athletes doping, other organizations look for reasons not to discipline their atheletes when they do test positive, and some leagues do both to avoid cheating accusations. I think the NHL is likely in the first group with relaxed testing standards, but accepts a positive test as face value.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby longtimefan on Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:02 pm

Wow! This is a surprise. Yzerman stepped down as TB GM.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/rep ... htning-gm/
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:27 am

Talk out in the Twitterverse is that Karlsson will not be a Senator when camp opens this week. Vegas, San Jose, Dallas, and Vancouver are still the 4 teams that are being said to be in the mix. Still said that Bobby Ryan is going out in any Karlsson deal as well.

I really see Vegas or Dallas as the front runners. Vegas has the assets, and the biggest need for a true #1. Schmidt isn't there yet, and he's suspended 20 games. Dallas could use him too, but, they can't have their cake and eat it too.....if they won't give up Heiskanen, they likely can't get Karlsson. San Jose, I just don't see him and Burns on the same team as a good fit. Vancouver could use him, but I think they are the worst team of the group. They'll be good in a few years as their top end picks develop, but I'm not sure I see Karlsson wanting to go there.

Don't be surprised if Karlsson is dealt in the next 48 hours.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby LimerickPensFan on Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:36 am

FLPensFan wrote:Talk out in the Twitterverse is that Karlsson will not be a Senator when camp opens this week. Vegas, San Jose, Dallas, and Vancouver are still the 4 teams that are being said to be in the mix. Still said that Bobby Ryan is going out in any Karlsson deal as well.

I really see Vegas or Dallas as the front runners. Vegas has the assets, and the biggest need for a true #1. Schmidt isn't there yet, and he's suspended 20 games. Dallas could use him too, but, they can't have their cake and eat it too.....if they won't give up Heiskanen, they likely can't get Karlsson. San Jose, I just don't see him and Burns on the same team as a good fit. Vancouver could use him, but I think they are the worst team of the group. They'll be good in a few years as their top end picks develop, but I'm not sure I see Karlsson wanting to go there.

Don't be surprised if Karlsson is dealt in the next 48 hours.

Do you think Vegas is interested even after picking up Pacioretty?
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby stonewizard51 on Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:57 am

Vegas would have to shed some cap space. They have 7 mil at the moment and Karlsson would eat 6.5 of that.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:04 am

LimerickPensFan wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Talk out in the Twitterverse is that Karlsson will not be a Senator when camp opens this week. Vegas, San Jose, Dallas, and Vancouver are still the 4 teams that are being said to be in the mix. Still said that Bobby Ryan is going out in any Karlsson deal as well.

I really see Vegas or Dallas as the front runners. Vegas has the assets, and the biggest need for a true #1. Schmidt isn't there yet, and he's suspended 20 games. Dallas could use him too, but, they can't have their cake and eat it too.....if they won't give up Heiskanen, they likely can't get Karlsson. San Jose, I just don't see him and Burns on the same team as a good fit. Vancouver could use him, but I think they are the worst team of the group. They'll be good in a few years as their top end picks develop, but I'm not sure I see Karlsson wanting to go there.

Don't be surprised if Karlsson is dealt in the next 48 hours.

Do you think Vegas is interested even after picking up Pacioretty?

There are some out there that think McPhee after their Cup run last year, McPhee may be willing to forego a bit of the future due to their early success. He already traded Nick Suzuki. Would he trade Brannstrom or Glass in a Karlsson package? Could he keep both of those guys instead give up a Theodore or Miller (both reportedly of interest to OTT).

If I'm Ottawa, I would take something like Shea Theodore, Alex Tuch, and a conditional 1st rounder (either 2019 or 2020 pick, Vegas choice) for Karlsson and Ryan. I think OTT could get more if they weren't attaching Ryan to the deal, but Theodore and Tuch are both young under 24 year old NHL players. Tuch isn't a high end scorer, but he has room to approve and could top out at a 50 point type player. Theodore is a top 4 guy and could be a #2 type guy down the road.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:18 am

stonewizard51 wrote:Vegas would have to shed some cap space. They have 7 mil at the moment and Karlsson would eat 6.5 of that.

Vegas has just under 9.5M in cap space. They still need to resign Shea Theodore, which is like in the 2-3M range. They also have David Clarkson contract, which gives them another 5.25M in LTIR space. Also, Nate Schmidt's 2.2M doesn't count against the cap while he is suspended.

Karlsson and Ryan cost 13.75M this year against the cap. 9.5M, plus moving out Tuch (900K) and Theodore (no current salary as RFA) brings them to about -3.38M on the cap. Put Clarkson on LTIR, and they have 1.8M cap space without removing Schmidt's salary for suspension.

They can do it this year. When it becomes an issue is next year, when they need to resign both Karlsson's (William and Erik), to longer term, more expensive deals. Aside from Schmidt, Vegas doesn't have any salaries about 2M coming off the books next season. They'd likely have to move another bigger player like a Cody Eakin, Ryan Reaves, or Erik Haula type to be able to fit everything. It would be difficult, but, seeing what Rutherford has been able to accomplish, I don't doubt that Vegas could do it if they want.

What if Vegas takes Karlsson, but gets someone like Vancouver to take Bobby Ryan, either Ryan the player in his entirety, or part of Ryan's contract in return for a good asset for Vancouver. After seeing the Brassard deal, I can't count out anything at this point.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Jim on Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:27 am

FLPensFan wrote:Talk out in the Twitterverse is that Karlsson will not be a Senator when camp opens this week. Vegas, San Jose, Dallas, and Vancouver are still the 4 teams that are being said to be in the mix. Still said that Bobby Ryan is going out in any Karlsson deal as well.

I really see Vegas or Dallas as the front runners. Vegas has the assets, and the biggest need for a true #1. Schmidt isn't there yet, and he's suspended 20 games. Dallas could use him too, but, they can't have their cake and eat it too.....if they won't give up Heiskanen, they likely can't get Karlsson. San Jose, I just don't see him and Burns on the same team as a good fit. Vancouver could use him, but I think they are the worst team of the group. They'll be good in a few years as their top end picks develop, but I'm not sure I see Karlsson wanting to go there.

Don't be surprised if Karlsson is dealt in the next 48 hours.


I've held that Ottawa insisting on Ryan being part of any Karlsson deal is the cause, possibly only real cause, of the delay in Karlsson being moved.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:46 am

Jim wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Talk out in the Twitterverse is that Karlsson will not be a Senator when camp opens this week. Vegas, San Jose, Dallas, and Vancouver are still the 4 teams that are being said to be in the mix. Still said that Bobby Ryan is going out in any Karlsson deal as well.

I really see Vegas or Dallas as the front runners. Vegas has the assets, and the biggest need for a true #1. Schmidt isn't there yet, and he's suspended 20 games. Dallas could use him too, but, they can't have their cake and eat it too.....if they won't give up Heiskanen, they likely can't get Karlsson. San Jose, I just don't see him and Burns on the same team as a good fit. Vancouver could use him, but I think they are the worst team of the group. They'll be good in a few years as their top end picks develop, but I'm not sure I see Karlsson wanting to go there.

Don't be surprised if Karlsson is dealt in the next 48 hours.


I've held that Ottawa insisting on Ryan being part of any Karlsson deal is the cause, possibly only real cause, of the delay in Karlsson being moved.

You may be right there, and, we all assume that is a must of any deal because that's what the national guys are reporting. But Ottawa would be dumb not to jump on a deal that meets their needs without Ryan included, but....it is Ottawa, and, they did have the ?????? (Not sure what word to use here, dumb, idiotic, etc) sense to put out this video this week:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1039334041219084289
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Jim on Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:48 pm

It is just the salary. They want to move out that contract, badly. Salary dumps can have a lot of value to management.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby LimerickPensFan on Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:03 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
Jim wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Talk out in the Twitterverse is that Karlsson will not be a Senator when camp opens this week. Vegas, San Jose, Dallas, and Vancouver are still the 4 teams that are being said to be in the mix. Still said that Bobby Ryan is going out in any Karlsson deal as well.

I really see Vegas or Dallas as the front runners. Vegas has the assets, and the biggest need for a true #1. Schmidt isn't there yet, and he's suspended 20 games. Dallas could use him too, but, they can't have their cake and eat it too.....if they won't give up Heiskanen, they likely can't get Karlsson. San Jose, I just don't see him and Burns on the same team as a good fit. Vancouver could use him, but I think they are the worst team of the group. They'll be good in a few years as their top end picks develop, but I'm not sure I see Karlsson wanting to go there.

Don't be surprised if Karlsson is dealt in the next 48 hours.


I've held that Ottawa insisting on Ryan being part of any Karlsson deal is the cause, possibly only real cause, of the delay in Karlsson being moved.

You may be right there, and, we all assume that is a must of any deal because that's what the national guys are reporting. But Ottawa would be dumb not to jump on a deal that meets their needs without Ryan included, but....it is Ottawa, and, they did have the ?????? (Not sure what word to use here, dumb, idiotic, etc) sense to put out this video this week:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1039334041219084289

So does that mean Bobby Ryan is Ottawa's Matt Hunwick? 8-)
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby ShipHockey7 on Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:14 pm

stonewizard51 wrote:Vegas would have to shed some cap space. They have 7 mil at the moment and Karlsson would eat 6.5 of that.



Just LTIR'ing Clarkson will do the job.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Ohio_Pens_fan on Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:35 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
stonewizard51 wrote:Vegas would have to shed some cap space. They have 7 mil at the moment and Karlsson would eat 6.5 of that.

Vegas has just under 9.5M in cap space. They still need to resign Shea Theodore, which is like in the 2-3M range. They also have David Clarkson contract, which gives them another 5.25M in LTIR space. Also, Nate Schmidt's 2.2M doesn't count against the cap while he is suspended.

Karlsson and Ryan cost 13.75M this year against the cap. 9.5M, plus moving out Tuch (900K) and Theodore (no current salary as RFA) brings them to about -3.38M on the cap. Put Clarkson on LTIR, and they have 1.8M cap space without removing Schmidt's salary for suspension.

They can do it this year. When it becomes an issue is next year, when they need to resign both Karlsson's (William and Erik), to longer term, more expensive deals. Aside from Schmidt, Vegas doesn't have any salaries about 2M coming off the books next season. They'd likely have to move another bigger player like a Cody Eakin, Ryan Reaves, or Erik Haula type to be able to fit everything. It would be difficult, but, seeing what Rutherford has been able to accomplish, I don't doubt that Vegas could do it if they want.

What if Vegas takes Karlsson, but gets someone like Vancouver to take Bobby Ryan, either Ryan the player in his entirety, or part of Ryan's contract in return for a good asset for Vancouver. After seeing the Brassard deal, I can't count out anything at this point.


Haula would be nice for us, especially if we fail to resign Brassard. Plus, Haula would be cheaper, now and long term on his next contract.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby penny lane on Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:40 pm

https://www.nhl.com/bluejackets/news/bl ... -300066254

More years of John Tortorella v the pens! Signed through 2021... but you know contracts for coaches are fluid.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Humperdink on Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:34 am

penny lane wrote:https://www.nhl.com/bluejackets/news/blue-jackets-john-tortorella-agree-to-a-two-year-contract-extension/c-300066254

More years of John Tortorella v the pens! Signed through 2021... but you know contracts for coaches are fluid.


Makes my day to read this. Torts antics and the resultant mockery makes for an entertaining hockey season.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby stonewizard51 on Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:45 am

Humperdink wrote:
penny lane wrote:https://www.nhl.com/bluejackets/news/blue-jackets-john-tortorella-agree-to-a-two-year-contract-extension/c-300066254

More years of John Tortorella v the pens! Signed through 2021... but you know contracts for coaches are fluid.


Makes my day to read this. Torts antics and the resultant mockery makes for an entertaining hockey season.


True Dat !!

According to my sis, who lives in Columbus, a lot of fans aren't thrilled to have Torts back. They were campaigning to get rid of his ***. He creates a lot of drama and angst on the team.

She's like me. Any day with Torts behind the bench definitely makes for good TV.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:57 am

A truely great read if you subscribe to the Athletic. Article about goalie Robin Lehner, his battle with addition, bipolar disorder, depression and a few other things. One of the things mentioned a few times in the article is how great Buffalo GM Jason Botteril was throughout, from the first game things came to a head when he came from the press box to check on Lehner, to Botteril still calling Lehner multiple times over the summer to check-in on Lehner, even though he is no longer a Sabre's player.

https://theathletic.com/522117/2018/09/13/islanders-goalie-robin-lehner-opens-up-about-his-addiction-and-bipolar-diagnosis-i-could-not-stand-being-alone-in-my-brain/
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Daniel on Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:31 am

FLPensFan wrote:A truely great read if you subscribe to the Athletic. Article about goalie Robin Lehner, his battle with addition, bipolar disorder, depression and a few other things. One of the things mentioned a few times in the article is how great Buffalo GM Jason Botteril was throughout, from the first game things came to a head when he came from the press box to check on Lehner, to Botteril still calling Lehner multiple times over the summer to check-in on Lehner, even though he is no longer a Sabre's player.

https://theathletic.com/522117/2018/09/13/islanders-goalie-robin-lehner-opens-up-about-his-addiction-and-bipolar-diagnosis-i-could-not-stand-being-alone-in-my-brain/


I think the loss of Botterill is going to be felt for awhile. I'd have liked to have seen him as GM with JR moving to an upper management position.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:09 pm

Hearing 8 years, 9.85M AAV contract extension for Tyler Seguin in Dallas
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:56 pm

By the way, I'm going away for the weekend starting tomorrow.....which means I fully expect the Erik Karlsson trade to happen Friday or Saturday while I am away.

San Jose said to be making a strong push, and LeBrun and/or MacKenzie saying almost definitely will be a Western Conference team if it happens. SJ, Dallas, and Vegas appear to be biggest interested parties.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:22 pm

FLPensFan wrote:By the way, I'm going away for the weekend starting tomorrow.....which means I fully expect the Erik Karlsson trade to happen Friday or Saturday while I am away.

San Jose said to be making a strong push, and LeBrun and/or MacKenzie saying almost definitely will be a Western Conference team if it happens. SJ, Dallas, and Vegas appear to be biggest interested parties.

Or maybe not.....on my way to a Dr. Appt, but hearing via Darren Dreger that reportedly, players in San Jose are in process of being informed that they are being traded to Ottawa.

For those keeping score at home, most hockey people felt San Jose had the LEAST amount of top pieces to offer Ottawa. Let's also not forget that Ottawa traded Hoffman to SJ, only to see the Sharks trade him to a division rival of Ottawa, and for a better return.

Melnyk is a flipping fool.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Owchar76 on Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:38 pm

Ottawa will receive center Chris Tierney, defenseman Dylan DeMelo, winger Rudolfs Balcers, center Josh Norris, a first-round pick and a second-round pick for Karlsson and forward prospect Francis Perron.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:54 pm

Owchar76 wrote:Ottawa will receive center Chris Tierney, defenseman Dylan DeMelo, winger Rudolfs Balcers, center Josh Norris, a first-round pick and a second-round pick for Karlsson and forward prospect Francis Perron.

Tierney had a great year last season, and Norris is supposed to be SJ top prospect, but, I still don't see anything to get excited over for Ottawa....not to mention, as mentioned before.....was the Bobby Ryan talk just noise, because he isn't in the deal.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Owchar76 on Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:59 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
Owchar76 wrote:Ottawa will receive center Chris Tierney, defenseman Dylan DeMelo, winger Rudolfs Balcers, center Josh Norris, a first-round pick and a second-round pick for Karlsson and forward prospect Francis Perron.

Tierney had a great year last season, and Norris is supposed to be SJ top prospect, but, I still don't see anything to get excited over for Ottawa....not to mention, as mentioned before.....was the Bobby Ryan talk just noise, because he isn't in the deal.


Norris is best friends with Tkachuk, so there's that?

Tierney did have a great year, but he's a 3C. DeMelo is a bottom pairing type guy. Balcers had an okay year in the AHL and decent last year in the WHL, but he was a 20 year old then.

Move Ottawa to Quebec please.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:04 pm

Owchar76 wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
Owchar76 wrote:Ottawa will receive center Chris Tierney, defenseman Dylan DeMelo, winger Rudolfs Balcers, center Josh Norris, a first-round pick and a second-round pick for Karlsson and forward prospect Francis Perron.

Tierney had a great year last season, and Norris is supposed to be SJ top prospect, but, I still don't see anything to get excited over for Ottawa....not to mention, as mentioned before.....was the Bobby Ryan talk just noise, because he isn't in the deal.


Norris is best friends with Tkachuk, so there's that?

Tierney did have a great year, but he's a 3C. DeMelo is a bottom pairing type guy. Balcers had an okay year in the AHL and decent last year in the WHL, but he was a 20 year old then.

Move Ottawa to Quebec please.

Heard on NHL Radio in the car there are two conditional 1st round picks in play for Ottawa as well.

There is another 2nd rounder in the deal that can become a first rounder if SJ doesn't resign Karlsson AND trades him to the East.

The other conditional pick is if SJ makes the Cup final this year with Karlsson, reportedly SJ sends a 2020 or 2021 1st to Ottawa.

Details still sketchy. I guess that helps a bit, but these are all likely late 1st rounders with SJ now stacked.
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