2018 Summer Game Plan

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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby OKpensfan247 on Wed May 09, 2018 6:26 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
OKpensfan247 wrote:Definitely agree the communication this offseason between coach and GM on team strategy/direction has to be better. No more Reaves type experiments if the coach is only going to play him 6 minutes a night.

I have not looked at UFA group yet, but also hope Rutherford addresses our needs more aggressively/quickly this offseason compared to last year if the players are available. We do not have as glaring of a need (3 and 4 C last year) this time around... But it better be obvious we need better depth scoring.


The Pens don't have the UFAs they did last season and don't have any cap space. To address needs it's going to have to involve trading the likes of Letang, Sheary, Hunwick, ect.


Yeah very true. Thx guru. I agree with previous posters guys like Sheary, Hunwick, and Kuhnhackl should be obvious choices to be moved if any takers. Good point it would take a Letang or Kessel move to make multiple significant depth upgrades.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby LimerickPensFan on Wed May 09, 2018 8:13 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
OKpensfan247 wrote:Definitely agree the communication this offseason between coach and GM on team strategy/direction has to be better. No more Reaves type experiments if the coach is only going to play him 6 minutes a night.

I have not looked at UFA group yet, but also hope Rutherford addresses our needs more aggressively/quickly this offseason compared to last year if the players are available. We do not have as glaring of a need (3 and 4 C last year) this time around... But it better be obvious we need better depth scoring.


The Pens don't have the UFAs they did last season and don't have any cap space. To address needs it's going to have to involve trading the likes of Letang, Sheary, Hunwick, ect.

Even with the expected increase in the cap next year? I've heard it was going up about 7+ million.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Daniel on Wed May 09, 2018 8:25 pm

Risto wrote:Move Sheary to open a spot for Sprong. This is a no-brainer. Sheary has no role here if he's not playing with Crosby.

Unload Hunwick, obviously. Dead weight.

Bring in a veteran D-man to provide depth and an upgrade over Ruhwedel.

It would be nice to upgrade Maata. He was better this year, but I don't see him as a top-4 caliber defenseman on a good team. He's not the poor man's Lidstrom we were hoping for. But, he seems to be a darling of the organization and he's not going anywhere, so it's not worth the discussion.

Letang's contract is untradeable, so that's also not worth a discussion. He just needs to be better.

Other than those tweaks, I think you roll with this lineup one more time before you blow it up. Still a lot of talent here and no one older than 32.


I still think Maatta is young enough to get better. One of the positives (well the only positive) of being out in 2 rounds is that it gives everyone another month of offseason.

He's smart on the ice, but doesn't have the confidence to be as good as he can. I know he isn't fast, but his skating isn't horrible.

Let's see what Maatta can do next year and go from there.

As for Letang, I don't think his contract is untradeable, but it won't give the Pens cap space since they'll bring back another teams albatross. Just need to decide if the new albatross is worth giving up Letang.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Daniel on Wed May 09, 2018 8:42 pm

FLPensFan wrote:Had a longer post on my other computer but never hit send, so here is the shorter version (yes, this is the shorter version :D ):

Must Do's (100%)
=============
1. Resign Rust, Sheahan, Oleksiak, and Simon
2. Play Sprong on Penguins NHL roster. (He is no longer waiver exempt. It's PIT, traded to another team, or waiver claim. PIT would be stupid to trade him without ever giving him a fair shake at the NHL level).
3. Upgrade the 4th line.
4. Bring in a solid, UFA bottom pair defenseman.ing Kessel this summer is, we don't know enough about Sprong. This is why I think you have to wait until the 2019 trade deadline or 2019 summer....need to see what Sprong can do.

Guentzel-Crosby-Hornqvist
JVR-Malkin-Kessel
ZAR-Brassard-Sprong
Hagelin-Sheahan-Rust
xKuhnhackl, Simon, DiPauli, Blueger

Dumo-Letang
Maatta-Schultz
UFA-Oleksiak
xRuhwedel

That forward lineup has a nice combination of speed, skill, and toughness on every line, and that is without moving Kessel or Letang. That 4th line could be a lot of teams 3rd lines. Much better for Rust and Hagelin to put in a position where they can exceed expectations, rather than always trying to justify a top 6 role with production not in line with their playing time.


I do thnk that adding Sprong alone will add scoring to the 4th line, for the simple fact that he'll push someone down. I agree and disagree about Kunhhackl. I disagree because he has enough skill to play on the 4th line and if the 4th line is him, Sheahan, Rust, he'll score what he should. Also, I think the 4th line was in such flux until Sheahan was on their regularly that it'd be nice to see what Kuhnhackl can do with regular linemates. I agree because he needs to show the skill over an 82 game season.

Of course, if they get JVR and ZAR earns a 3rd line spot, who would Kuhnhackl beat out? Unless they trade Hagelin.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Cow_Master66 on Wed May 09, 2018 9:38 pm

Pensfan4life8771 wrote:I'll just type it out:

So I traded Sheary to Oilers for Russell (D)
Traded Hunwick to Toronto for draft pick.

Guentzel - Crosby - Sprong
hagelin - Malkin - Horny
JVR - Sheahan - Kessel
ZAR - Brassard - Rust

Dumo-Letang
Matta-Schultz
Oleksiak - Russell
Ruhwedel

Murray
Jarry

With $82M cap I have roughly $757,500 left.



Brassard won’t be on the 4th line.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby lemieuxReturns on Thu May 10, 2018 6:48 am

I have been one of Hagelin's biggest critics, but I would hate to not have him on the team. He didnt have a great year stats wise but he turned things around towards the end of the year. His speed still causes problems for teams and he has become a big part of the PK.

Also, the more Swedes the better.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Steve Dave on Thu May 10, 2018 9:02 am

Cow_Master66 wrote:
Pensfan4life8771 wrote:I'll just type it out:

So I traded Sheary to Oilers for Russell (D)
Traded Hunwick to Toronto for draft pick.

Guentzel - Crosby - Sprong
hagelin - Malkin - Horny
JVR - Sheahan - Kessel
ZAR - Brassard - Rust

Dumo-Letang
Matta-Schultz
Oleksiak - Russell
Ruhwedel

Murray
Jarry

With $82M cap I have roughly $757,500 left.



Brassard won’t be on the 4th line.

It would be huge if Blueger is ready next year and could hold down the 4th line, moving Brassard to wing as he stated he was willing to do in the exit interviews...

Guentzel Crosby Sprong
Hagelin Malkin Hornqvist
Brassard Sheahan Kessel
Aston-Reese Blueger Rust
x Kuhnhackl, Simon (trade Sheary)
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby DelPen on Thu May 10, 2018 9:03 am

To start that’s not bad but if Brassard isn’t going to play center trade him to a team who is in desperate need of one like Montreal.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby no name on Thu May 10, 2018 9:25 am

Get E Kane to play with Sid and get me a true top 4 defenseman. Get a established 4th line center. Cullen type, cup hungry.

Willing to part with Brassard and Letang. as long as equal positional player is retained in the deal.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby DelPen on Thu May 10, 2018 9:40 am

no name wrote:Get E Kane to play with Sid and get me a true top 4 defenseman. Get a established 4th line center. Cullen type, cup hungry.

Willing to part with Brassard and Letang. as long as equal positional player is retained in the deal.

I’d move Sheary for a 2nd or 3rd plus a solid prospect that needs a couple more years in the AHL too just to free up the cap space.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby pens_CT on Thu May 10, 2018 10:30 am

DelPen wrote:To start that’s not bad but if Brassard isn’t going to play center trade him to a team who is in desperate need of one like Montreal.


What do you want off of the Montreal roster? Not a whole lot to choose from there.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby DelPen on Thu May 10, 2018 10:50 am

pens_CT wrote:
DelPen wrote:To start that’s not bad but if Brassard isn’t going to play center trade him to a team who is in desperate need of one like Montreal.


What do you want off of the Montreal roster? Not a whole lot to choose from there.

Pacioretty
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby penny lane on Thu May 10, 2018 10:51 am

Since Coach Sullivan knows Brassard from the NYR, I'm sure he'll be given time to succeed as a center.
On the other hand- Jake is doing okay as a former center.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Lesky on Thu May 10, 2018 10:57 am

Joe Starkey quote on Sullivan and Simon:

"The second was, “How did Derick Brassard go from deadline prize to Mike Sullivan’s dog house in a matter of weeks?” (Sullivan’s dog house being far different than his penthouse, where Dominik Simon, fractured thumb and all, owns a three-bedroom suite with full-marble bathrooms, a private garage and a stunning view of the city)".


I never understood why Simon got so many chances in the regular season to start with, and I never was on the Sprong bandwagon, but you have to wonder. Especially as Rutherford believed some of the dry spells Sprong had this season was because he was dissapointed not to be called up to Pittsburgh. Maybe Sullivan did not like if Sprong pouting in WBS and thats why he never got any real chance. Sullivan seem to like or dislike a player personally and then he is very stubborn on changing that up.

It would also been nice with a suprise change with Sprong, to make the Caps adapt to something new instead of going with what did not work at all game after game.

Was it not early on in the season when Pens struggled that Sullivan changed lines every period almost? And then in the playoffs he changed nothing. I find that a bit odd.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Jim on Thu May 10, 2018 11:01 am

no name wrote:Get E Kane to play with Sid and get me a true top 4 defenseman. Get a established 4th line center. Cullen type, cup hungry.

Willing to part with Brassard and Letang. as long as equal positional player is retained in the deal.


They have a solid 4th line center in Sheahan. Why move Brassard, a 2/3 level center, and then get another 4th line center? Rather go after JvR than E.Kane.

I suggested the other day to sign Carlson, then trade a package with Letang to Colorado for a package containing Landeskog. Landeskog taking the place of E.Kane or JvR and Carlson taking the place of the top offensive D with Letang being moved.

Additional package pieces could be, in order: Hagelin (cap), Sprong (see: Pouliot), Hunwick and Sheary (cap).
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby itissteeltime on Thu May 10, 2018 11:06 am

I dont think we need to add any forward piece for next year. Add Spring and our 4 lines will be good. If we could somehow add a top 4 dman, I'd like our odds.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Thu May 10, 2018 11:11 am

Here's the thing......the Penguins are going to have to move a big piece to make any type of medium to large moves to upgrade the roster. Let's look at the math.

Let's say the cap increases from 75M to 78M (which is considered the low end of the expected increase). 3M increase in cap space:
---Hornqvist is returning with 1.050M more in salary. Now down to 2M in cap space increase.
---Rust is going to need to be resigned. If you go on the low end, let's say 2M for 2 years, that is still a 1.4M increase in salary. Now you have about 600K left in new cap space.
---Oleksiak is going to need to be resigned. Let's say 1.5M is fair for him. That's roughly a 600K increase in salary. You've now used up that 3M in space already.
---Sheahan needs resigned. Let's say we get him on the low end, 2.275M for 2 years. adding another 200K to the cap space, -200K
---Sprong needs to be resigned. Should be minimal, maybe 800K maximum. Only about 100K more than he makes now. -300K
---Kuhnhackl needs to be resigned. Around 700K minimum, or 75K increase. -375K
---Remove Carter Rowney, saves 612K, back to about positive 250K.

With resigns of current players, a 3M cap increase is going to be gone in a flash. Let's say a 6M JVR is our target. You trade 3M Sheary and 2.25M Hunwick (gotta be just for picks), you are still short, and going to be slammed up against the cap. You move Hagelin over Sheary, you can fit in JVR, but still pretty slammed against the cap.

I think this is part of the reason Kessel's name is being thrown around already. If the cap goes up to 80M instead of only 78M, fine, you have some extra room and are jammed up against the cap, but you also haven't acquired another bottom pairing defenseman, either.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Penspal on Thu May 10, 2018 11:14 am

Anyone notice the very slight correction that GMJR made in his presser yesterday talking about Sprong? He said something like, he's score a lot of goals "in the ..." then he corrected himself and said... "for our club". Ever so subtle, but I of course LEAPT to conclusions and thought that meant that Sprong was going to be traded.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby pens_CT on Thu May 10, 2018 11:19 am

DelPen wrote:
pens_CT wrote:
DelPen wrote:To start that’s not bad but if Brassard isn’t going to play center trade him to a team who is in desperate need of one like Montreal.


What do you want off of the Montreal roster? Not a whole lot to choose from there.

Pacioretty


Yeah, you go from a center that will cost you 5-6 million to extend, to a LW who will cost you about the same, but probably has more mileage on his body based on the type of game he plays. I'd rather have the center at that price.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby lemieuxReturns on Thu May 10, 2018 11:21 am

Penspal wrote:Anyone notice the very slight correction that GMJR made in his presser yesterday talking about Sprong? He said something like, he's score a lot of goals "in the ..." then he corrected himself and said... "for our club". Ever so subtle, but I of course LEAPT to conclusions and thought that meant that Sprong was going to be traded.


I read it like, he was going to say "in the AHL" but corrected himself to say "for our club".
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Thu May 10, 2018 11:24 am

Penspal wrote:Anyone notice the very slight correction that GMJR made in his presser yesterday talking about Sprong? He said something like, he's score a lot of goals "in the ..." then he corrected himself and said... "for our club". Ever so subtle, but I of course LEAPT to conclusions and thought that meant that Sprong was going to be traded.

I heard he also initial made a statement saying "Daniel Sprong should be on the NHL roster next season." He later made the same statement, but changed should to WILL.

Again, it's a no brainer if you look deeper and realize that he has no more waiver exemption left, the Penguins have no choice but to play him in Pittsburgh or trade him. And everything I have heard so far indicates they are not trading him. He'd be claimed in a heartbeat if the Penguins tried to waive him to go to the NHL.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Malkintent on Thu May 10, 2018 11:25 am

Would you all consider substituting Kessel for JVR be an upgrade? Curious bc I'm nervous about making a big change. Had Malkin and Kessel been healthy things might have gone differently.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby pens_CT on Thu May 10, 2018 11:26 am

FLPensFan wrote:Here's the thing......the Penguins are going to have to move a big piece to make any type of medium to large moves to upgrade the roster. Let's look at the math.

Let's say the cap increases from 75M to 78M (which is considered the low end of the expected increase). 3M increase in cap space:
---Hornqvist is returning with 1.050M more in salary. Now down to 2M in cap space increase.
---Rust is going to need to be resigned. If you go on the low end, let's say 2M for 2 years, that is still a 1.4M increase in salary. Now you have about 600K left in new cap space.
---Oleksiak is going to need to be resigned. Let's say 1.5M is fair for him. That's roughly a 600K increase in salary. You've now used up that 3M in space already.
---Sheahan needs resigned. Let's say we get him on the low end, 2.275M for 2 years. adding another 200K to the cap space, -200K
---Sprong needs to be resigned. Should be minimal, maybe 800K maximum. Only about 100K more than he makes now. -300K
---Kuhnhackl needs to be resigned. Around 700K minimum, or 75K increase. -375K
---Remove Carter Rowney, saves 612K, back to about positive 250K.

With resigns of current players, a 3M cap increase is going to be gone in a flash. Let's say a 6M JVR is our target. You trade 3M Sheary and 2.25M Hunwick (gotta be just for picks), you are still short, and going to be slammed up against the cap. You move Hagelin over Sheary, you can fit in JVR, but still pretty slammed against the cap.

I think this is part of the reason Kessel's name is being thrown around already. If the cap goes up to 80M instead of only 78M, fine, you have some extra room and are jammed up against the cap, but you also haven't acquired another bottom pairing defenseman, either.


So if you move Kessel, and replace his cap hit with JVR and Sprong do you think we are better? The only way you are better in my opinion is if you get a younger player, with a lower cap hit in return for Kessel, that has some upside either to play in the top 9, or someone who helps improve the blue line.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby LimerickPensFan on Thu May 10, 2018 11:34 am

Malkintent wrote:Would you all consider substituting Kessel for JVR be an upgrade? Curious bc I'm nervous about making a big change. Had Malkin and Kessel been healthy things might have gone differently.

JVR would have the upside of getting the Philly fans PO'd. He was a pretty popular player when he was here.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby DelPen on Thu May 10, 2018 11:36 am

If the net difference is getting JVR and Sprong on Malkin’s Wings then we could move Kessel pretty much for a similar package we traded to get him. A prospect and a 1st. Would prefer a defenseman.
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