2018 Summer Game Plan

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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Malkintent on Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:43 pm

ville5 wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:No to Hoffman and his crazy fiancé.

Wish we had the pieces to acquire him ha.
What about his fiance? I haven't read/heard anything.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/m ... s.2502429/
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Daniel on Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:57 pm

Hatrick wrote:
Daniel wrote:
Great58 wrote:
Daniel wrote:What other options will accomplish this? You aren't going to get top end 22-25 year olds with Hunwick and Sheary. If Kessel can get a better than average LW between 22-25 with potential and a bottom pairing defensemen, I think that makes the team better.

I wouldn't trade Kessel for a "better than average" LW and 5/6 D. Not this year, and probably not next year, assuming arguments between him and the Coach don't grow exponentially. If the return would be higher, I'd consider it, but I don't see how the above trade makes the team better now, and only marginally better in the future.

He'll still have trade value at 32. And his contract dollars (cash money) will drop for the final two years of his term, making him more affordable to more teams.


Right, why I added "with potential". 8-)

The way I see it, the Pens have 2 choices. Make tough decisions and try and go a few more years in Sid/Geno's window (trade Kessel/Letang) or become the Red Wings where you have 5-6 guys over 35 and little else. Do they retool and maybe be competitive when Sid/Geno are late 30s or trade diminishing assets after they should have?


as stated already the red wings and penguins are two different situations, the red wings kept going for it when they were a middling team(losing in first round but still making playoffs) rather than trade away guys. The pens are still one of the best teams in the league for the next few years. You either make trades to get to the top, or to the bottom. Unless you get a great offer for our "old guys" you are going in the wrong direction.



Right now, the Pens are in a different situation than the Red Wings, I completely agree. But in 2-3 years we'll see a group of 5-6 players all over 31,32,33,34,35,etc. When do you trade Kessel and Letang to not end up like the Red Wings? As of today, Kessel can get a grade A prospect with some NHL experience and nice potential. In 2-3 years, what can he get?

I am not saying that I want Kessel gone, just realizing that he will need to be within the next year or so and this offseason might be the high in return.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby ville5 on Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:14 pm

Malkintent wrote:
ville5 wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:No to Hoffman and his crazy fiancé.

Wish we had the pieces to acquire him ha.
What about his fiance? I haven't read/heard anything.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/m ... s.2502429/

Ugh.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby thehockeyguru on Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:28 pm

What is the gist of the TIOPS article on Kessel and Domi?
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby ville5 on Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:50 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
ville5 wrote:Is Voynov an ufa or still Kings property?
If the domestic violence accusations are true, I want no parts of him.


His contract was terminated after the allegations

From Sportsnet article-
It should also be noted that the Kings still have Voynov’s rights, even though his contract was terminated. He is on the Voluntary Retirement List, similar to Ilya Kovalchuk. You’ll remember that, last summer, since he wasn’t yet 35, anyone who wanted to sign him had to make a deal with New Jersey. Because Voynov has not missed at least one season of professional hockey, that’s the case here, too.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Hatrick on Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:18 pm

Pensfan4life8771 wrote:
Hatrick wrote:
Pensfan4life8771 wrote:https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/727134

Ok, took a more simplistic approach to Free Agency while upgrading various positons and doing trades based off things that seem to be more talked about i.e. Domi.

Let me know your thoughts.

looks pretty good

might be slightly overpaying rust
also optimistic to get that much return for hunwick(a 3rd is more reasonable)
not sure if trading jarry to Arizona makes sense or not, I think sheary plus pick(s) make more sense



My thing with us trading Jarry vs Sheary is simple fact of a numbers game. We have a goalie who is #1 and a decent backup. I will say trading Gusty for Brassard deal may hinder being able to trade Jarry but why trade Sheary when we legit have no other LW besides Jake? I think that's where Kessel talk flares up from partial too...we have a lot of RW so why not flip him for a decent LW and cap space situation.

Kessel isn't expensive for his amount of production, sheary is(based on last year) that is the motivation of moving sheary but holding onto kessel(unless somebody makes a very good offer). As for sheary vs jarry, jarry again much cheaper not to mention murray's injury history. I would still be open to trading Jarry but would have to be for the right return.

As for the left wing situation as a whole, you don't need abunch of scorers on left wing if you have them on right wing, I know what you mean with the less depth there but you also have hagelin and ZAR available to play LW plus in this case the return from sheary(domi) is LW. The biggest need by far is defense, LW would be a secondary(and the only other) priority to that.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Hatrick on Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:26 pm

Daniel wrote:
Hatrick wrote:
Daniel wrote:
Great58 wrote:
Daniel wrote:What other options will accomplish this? You aren't going to get top end 22-25 year olds with Hunwick and Sheary. If Kessel can get a better than average LW between 22-25 with potential and a bottom pairing defensemen, I think that makes the team better.

I wouldn't trade Kessel for a "better than average" LW and 5/6 D. Not this year, and probably not next year, assuming arguments between him and the Coach don't grow exponentially. If the return would be higher, I'd consider it, but I don't see how the above trade makes the team better now, and only marginally better in the future.

He'll still have trade value at 32. And his contract dollars (cash money) will drop for the final two years of his term, making him more affordable to more teams.


Right, why I added "with potential". 8-)

The way I see it, the Pens have 2 choices. Make tough decisions and try and go a few more years in Sid/Geno's window (trade Kessel/Letang) or become the Red Wings where you have 5-6 guys over 35 and little else. Do they retool and maybe be competitive when Sid/Geno are late 30s or trade diminishing assets after they should have?


as stated already the red wings and penguins are two different situations, the red wings kept going for it when they were a middling team(losing in first round but still making playoffs) rather than trade away guys. The pens are still one of the best teams in the league for the next few years. You either make trades to get to the top, or to the bottom. Unless you get a great offer for our "old guys" you are going in the wrong direction.



Right now, the Pens are in a different situation than the Red Wings, I completely agree. But in 2-3 years we'll see a group of 5-6 players all over 31,32,33,34,35,etc. When do you trade Kessel and Letang to not end up like the Red Wings? As of today, Kessel can get a grade A prospect with some NHL experience and nice potential. In 2-3 years, what can he get?

I am not saying that I want Kessel gone, just realizing that he will need to be within the next year or so and this offseason might be the high in return.

if you want the highest long term value yeah you probably trade him within the next year or two. If you can do that while making the team equally as good or even better right now I am fine with that. If you are making the team worse solely to avoid being a lottery team in 6 years I am not ok with that. That's the line GMJR has to walk when listening to offers and why the concept of taking calls but not shopping is necessary, if the right offer comes along almost anybody is expendable but that offer would have to be better than what some people are suggesting the pens get in return.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:31 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:What is the gist of the TIOPS article on Kessel and Domi?

http://www.letsgopens.com/scripts/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=68054&start=825#p3157006
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:36 pm

ville5 wrote:
Malkintent wrote:
ville5 wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:No to Hoffman and his crazy fiancé.

Wish we had the pieces to acquire him ha.
What about his fiance? I haven't read/heard anything.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/m ... s.2502429/

Ugh.

Innocent until proven guilty, but the Twitter comments from what I presume is Andrew Hammond's wife (former Senators goalie) saying this is not surprising leads me to believe Hoffman's girlfriend isn't a very nice person.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby thehockeyguru on Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:43 pm

FLPensFan wrote:According to the Onion of Penguins coverage (AKA TIOPS), interest in Kessel is starting to pickup, whereas 2-3 teams were showing interest in the last week or two, there are now 5 or 6 teams that have had preliminary discussions with Pittsburgh. TIOPS says "league sources say" it is 50/50 as to whether Kessel gets moved.

He says with JVR, Skinner, Pacioretty, and Kovalchuk, there are a lot of options right now. Skinner is reportedly a 1st and young NHL prospect. Florida, LA, and Buffalo interested in Skinner per TIOPS, but all 3 of those teams are looking at Kessel as a potential backup. TIOPS says the advantage of Kessel over Skinner and Pacioretty is term left on the deal, and there is a belief Pittsburgh may retain a small portion in the right deal.

The other talk is that bringing Kessel into a veteran locker room is a better for his "attitude," and this is why LA continues to be in the Kessel rumor mill. Also according to TIOPS, LA, Chicago, and Nashville are 3 of the teams on Kessel's 8 team approved list.

=========================================
Also, as a small note, TIOPS states "buzz around the league" is teams would be surprised if Maxi Domi isn't a Penguin come draft day.

According to TIOPS, Penguins actually had conversations with Arizona regarding Domi at the trade deadline, but felt the discussions would be better to explore this summer. TIOPS say these discussions have intensified and that multiple trade scenarios between the two have been put in play. It is unclear if/how Kessel might be involved in those discussions.


I'm curious at asking price for Domi?
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Daniel on Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:46 pm

Hatrick wrote:if you want the highest long term value yeah you probably trade him within the next year or two. If you can do that while making the team equally as good or even better right now I am fine with that. If you are making the team worse solely to avoid being a lottery team in 6 years I am not ok with that. That's the line GMJR has to walk when listening to offers and why the concept of taking calls but not shopping is necessary, if the right offer comes along almost anybody is expendable but that offer would have to be better than what some people are suggesting the pens get in return.


Oh, I agree. My thought process is this, retool on the fly by trading a Kessel, Hagelin, Sheary for guys that can step in AS well as guys that can step in after a year at WBS.

https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/penguins

Kessel, Hagelin, Sheary - about $14mil in cap space

Remove them and the lineup becomes (who cares what order, you get the depth chart):

Guentzel-Crosby-Hornqvist
XXX-Malkin-Sprong
ZAR-Brassard-XXX
Kuhnhackl-Sheahan-Rust

I think the minimum for Kessel should be an under 25 guy who has a bit of experience and has produced and a steady defensive defensemen. Just to bring up a trade scenario, let's say Brendan Perlini and Dysin Mayo for Kessel. Not that Arizona would do this, but that's what I kind of scenario I'm talking about. Maybe AZ looks at it because of his 92 point season, maybe not. If the trade for Kessel is Max Domi and a 3rd, I'd say no thanks and move on.

The Pens don't need to trade him now, but I'd rather not wait until they have to because his skills are diminished. Bottom line, I don't want to see this:


Malkin, Evgeni 31
Crosby, Sidney 30
Kessel, Phil 30
Hörnqvist, Patric 31
Hagelin, Carl 29
Brassard, Derick 30

Turn into this:

Malkin, Evgeni 36
Crosby, Sidney 35
Kessel, Phil 35
Hörnqvist, Patric 36
Hagelin, Carl 34
Brassard, Derick 35
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby LimerickPensFan on Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:03 pm

I just don't get why people think removing Kessel is anything but a devastating hit to this team. You talk about trading him like it wouldn't have a significant negative effect.

Who cares about five years from now when you have the ability to win the cup multiple times in the next three? Seriously. Is your goal to make it to the second round of the playoffs every year or to win as many cups as you can? Hey, let's just get rid of one of our top scorers, though. I mean, he had a playoff that wasn't as good as his last two, but was still pretty good compared to most players in this league. Nine points in twelve games is nothing to sneeze at.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:12 pm

LimerickPensFan wrote:I just don't get why people think removing Kessel is anything but a devastating hit to this team. You talk about trading him like it wouldn't have a significant negative effect.

Who cares about five years from now when you have the ability to win the cup multiple times in the next three? Seriously. Is your goal to make it to the second round of the playoffs every year or to win as many cups as you can? Hey, let's just get rid of one of our top scorers, though. I mean, he had a playoff that wasn't as good as his last two, but was still pretty good compared to most players in this league. Nine points in twelve games is nothing to sneeze at.

On the flip side, I don't get why people think this team can't win anything without Kessel on the team, or that trading Kessel instantly makes the team worse.

And I will repeat from my vantage point.....this has NOTHING to do with the playoffs he had, and NOTHING to do with the regular season he had. It also has NOTHING to do with any alleged rift with Sullivan. The Penguins aren't trading Crosby and Malkin. The Penguins are very unlikely to trade Hornqvist, who they just extended, and is the only one on the team (possibly in the league) that does what he does. That leaves Kessel and his 3rd highest salary among the forwards. The reason Kessel is mentioned is because of his cap hit and his value. You could trade Hagelin and Sheary in separate deals to open up the same cap space, but you are never going to bring in a 20-25 goal scorer in return for either one of those players. With Kessel, you can.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:15 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:According to the Onion of Penguins coverage (AKA TIOPS), interest in Kessel is starting to pickup, whereas 2-3 teams were showing interest in the last week or two, there are now 5 or 6 teams that have had preliminary discussions with Pittsburgh. TIOPS says "league sources say" it is 50/50 as to whether Kessel gets moved.

He says with JVR, Skinner, Pacioretty, and Kovalchuk, there are a lot of options right now. Skinner is reportedly a 1st and young NHL prospect. Florida, LA, and Buffalo interested in Skinner per TIOPS, but all 3 of those teams are looking at Kessel as a potential backup. TIOPS says the advantage of Kessel over Skinner and Pacioretty is term left on the deal, and there is a belief Pittsburgh may retain a small portion in the right deal.

The other talk is that bringing Kessel into a veteran locker room is a better for his "attitude," and this is why LA continues to be in the Kessel rumor mill. Also according to TIOPS, LA, Chicago, and Nashville are 3 of the teams on Kessel's 8 team approved list.

=========================================
Also, as a small note, TIOPS states "buzz around the league" is teams would be surprised if Maxi Domi isn't a Penguin come draft day.

According to TIOPS, Penguins actually had conversations with Arizona regarding Domi at the trade deadline, but felt the discussions would be better to explore this summer. TIOPS say these discussions have intensified and that multiple trade scenarios between the two have been put in play. It is unclear if/how Kessel might be involved in those discussions.


I'm curious at asking price for Domi?

I hear it is high. I doubt it is high prospect and a 1st. Maybe Sheary and 2nd/Jarry would be enough, but not sure if Arizona would want that. I could see them maybe being interested in Hagelin. They've always had one of those speedy guys on their teams.......Boedker, Rieder types.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby thehockeyguru on Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:17 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
LimerickPensFan wrote:I just don't get why people think removing Kessel is anything but a devastating hit to this team. You talk about trading him like it wouldn't have a significant negative effect.

Who cares about five years from now when you have the ability to win the cup multiple times in the next three? Seriously. Is your goal to make it to the second round of the playoffs every year or to win as many cups as you can? Hey, let's just get rid of one of our top scorers, though. I mean, he had a playoff that wasn't as good as his last two, but was still pretty good compared to most players in this league. Nine points in twelve games is nothing to sneeze at.

On the flip side, I don't get why people think this team can't win anything without Kessel on the team, or that trading Kessel instantly makes the team worse.

And I will repeat from my vantage point.....this has NOTHING to do with the playoffs he had, and NOTHING to do with the regular season he had. It also has NOTHING to do with any alleged rift with Sullivan. The Penguins aren't trading Crosby and Malkin. The Penguins are very unlikely to trade Hornqvist, who they just extended, and is the only one on the team (possibly in the league) that does what he does. That leaves Kessel and his 3rd highest salary among the forwards. The reason Kessel is mentioned is because of his cap hit and his value. You could trade Hagelin and Sheary in separate deals to open up the same cap space, but you are never going to bring in a 20-25 goal scorer in return for either one of those players. With Kessel, you can.


I wouldn't say you can't win without Kessel, I will say you can't win out his production. We saw what happened this post season when only one line is producing. You win a round and then go out. Kessel prior to getting hurt this post season was a guy you counted on to score consistently and did.

Again you can move Kessel but it has to result in balanced scoring from at least 3 lines.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:24 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
ville5 wrote:
Malkintent wrote:
ville5 wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:No to Hoffman and his crazy fiancé.

Wish we had the pieces to acquire him ha.
What about his fiance? I haven't read/heard anything.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/m ... s.2502429/

Ugh.

Innocent until proven guilty, but the Twitter comments from what I presume is Andrew Hammond's wife (former Senators goalie) saying this is not surprising leads me to believe Hoffman's girlfriend isn't a very nice person.

Now seeing the wives of Jason Labarbera, Kyle Turris, and Daniel Winnik have all come out against Hoffman's girlfriend. Sounds like this is something that has been going on for awhile and finally went public with the restraining order.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Daniel on Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:57 pm

LimerickPensFan wrote:I just don't get why people think removing Kessel is anything but a devastating hit to this team. You talk about trading him like it wouldn't have a significant negative effect.


That really depends on the return for Phil, doesn't it? No one is suggesting a salary dump where they get a few picks and cap space. Phil isn't easily replaced, but it isn't as impossible as you make it sound. You act like his replacement will have 0 points for a loss of 92 points. Gradual improvement from a few young players, the 40-50 points for his replacement and the team is status quo in scoring, but a little bit younger.

LimerickPensFan wrote:Who cares about five years from now when you have the ability to win the cup multiple times in the next three? Seriously. Is your goal to make it to the second round of the playoffs every year or to win as many cups as you can? Hey, let's just get rid of one of our top scorers, though. I mean, he had a playoff that wasn't as good as his last two, but was still pretty good compared to most players in this league. Nine points in twelve games is nothing to sneeze at.


Do you honestly want to have a team where half the roster is over 35? The team can either rebuild where it takes 4-5 top 5 picks to be a playoff team, or retool on the fly and 1 maybe 2 lottery picks to be a contender again.

This team can trade Phil, Hagelin, Sheary, Letang and still have the ability to win the cup multiple times over the next few years. Difference is, instead of an average age of 32 after 3 years, the average age will be about 27.

Keep Phil and get older and slower each year and wonder why the other teams have caught up to the Pens or make the right trade and make another run. Again, no one is suggesting Phil for draft picks.

They might not be the Wings now, but they're trending in that direction where they have little prospects, little cap space, and a bunch of over 35 players they can't trade. BTW, Detroit had the oldest team in the league, few high end prospects coming up, about half the roster has NTC/NMC, and were 23 points from the playoffs......and haven't been past the 2nd round in a decade. Do you really not see them as a cautionary tale?
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby thehockeyguru on Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:33 am

Detroit is a different situation. Lindstrom retired, Datsuyk went to the KHL, and Franzen had to retire due to health issues. They tried to retool with the likes of Mike Green, Frans Nielsen, Trevor Daley, ECT but haven't been successful. When you lose 2 hall of famers you are going to regress, they weren't ever considering trading those players.

The Pens will some day be there with Crosby and Malkin.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby pekkasteele on Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:38 am

LimerickPensFan wrote:I just don't get why people think removing Kessel is anything but a devastating hit to this team. You talk about trading him like it wouldn't have a significant negative effect.

Who cares about five years from now when you have the ability to win the cup multiple times in the next three? Seriously. Is your goal to make it to the second round of the playoffs every year or to win as many cups as you can? Hey, let's just get rid of one of our top scorers, though. I mean, he had a playoff that wasn't as good as his last two, but was still pretty good compared to most players in this league. Nine points in twelve games is nothing to sneeze at.


How do you know the team will be worse without Pill? We would get something back, maybe a young LW that can score 50-60 points, and improve the D. say you get a D that can play 1st or 2nd pairing, depending on if it is a offensive or defensive D would make our 3rd pairing Oleksiak and Maatta och Oleksiak and Schultz, that would also help a long way, having Ruh and Hunwick as 7th and 8th D. Or if we could trade Hunwick to that would be great.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Great58 on Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:30 am

Not trading Kessel now doesn’t mean we’re going to keep him the next 4 years, nor that we’ll have Brassard or Hagelin, even after this season. It doesnt lock us into a team that’s core is entirely over 35 years old.

In two years time, Kessel will be Ovie’s age. His value sure hasn’t dropped off. There’s no reason to think Kessel is going to fall off a cliff in two years. He’ll still have substantial trade value, after making two more serious Cup runs.

A first pairing defenceman and 60 point winger as offered above would pique my interest, but I don’t see us getting that offered to us, so the gains for trading Kessel would be hard to cover his loss, at this time.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby LimerickPensFan on Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:06 am

FLPensFan wrote:
LimerickPensFan wrote:I just don't get why people think removing Kessel is anything but a devastating hit to this team. You talk about trading him like it wouldn't have a significant negative effect.

Who cares about five years from now when you have the ability to win the cup multiple times in the next three? Seriously. Is your goal to make it to the second round of the playoffs every year or to win as many cups as you can? Hey, let's just get rid of one of our top scorers, though. I mean, he had a playoff that wasn't as good as his last two, but was still pretty good compared to most players in this league. Nine points in twelve games is nothing to sneeze at.

On the flip side, I don't get why people think this team can't win anything without Kessel on the team, or that trading Kessel instantly makes the team worse.

And I will repeat from my vantage point.....this has NOTHING to do with the playoffs he had, and NOTHING to do with the regular season he had. It also has NOTHING to do with any alleged rift with Sullivan. The Penguins aren't trading Crosby and Malkin. The Penguins are very unlikely to trade Hornqvist, who they just extended, and is the only one on the team (possibly in the league) that does what he does. That leaves Kessel and his 3rd highest salary among the forwards. The reason Kessel is mentioned is because of his cap hit and his value. You could trade Hagelin and Sheary in separate deals to open up the same cap space, but you are never going to bring in a 20-25 goal scorer in return for either one of those players. With Kessel, you can.

How does trading Kessel for lesser players not make this team worse?

Why do you need to trade anyone? We have a team one year removed from back-to-back cups that, with a little better luck, could have won it all this year. That's not a team you change to any great extent. You certainly don't trade away any of the key players - of which Kessel is one.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby LimerickPensFan on Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:13 am

Daniel wrote:
LimerickPensFan wrote:I just don't get why people think removing Kessel is anything but a devastating hit to this team. You talk about trading him like it wouldn't have a significant negative effect.


That really depends on the return for Phil, doesn't it? No one is suggesting a salary dump where they get a few picks and cap space. Phil isn't easily replaced, but it isn't as impossible as you make it sound. You act like his replacement will have 0 points for a loss of 92 points. Gradual improvement from a few young players, the 40-50 points for his replacement and the team is status quo in scoring, but a little bit younger.

LimerickPensFan wrote:Who cares about five years from now when you have the ability to win the cup multiple times in the next three? Seriously. Is your goal to make it to the second round of the playoffs every year or to win as many cups as you can? Hey, let's just get rid of one of our top scorers, though. I mean, he had a playoff that wasn't as good as his last two, but was still pretty good compared to most players in this league. Nine points in twelve games is nothing to sneeze at.


Do you honestly want to have a team where half the roster is over 35? The team can either rebuild where it takes 4-5 top 5 picks to be a playoff team, or retool on the fly and 1 maybe 2 lottery picks to be a contender again.

This team can trade Phil, Hagelin, Sheary, Letang and still have the ability to win the cup multiple times over the next few years. Difference is, instead of an average age of 32 after 3 years, the average age will be about 27.

Keep Phil and get older and slower each year and wonder why the other teams have caught up to the Pens or make the right trade and make another run. Again, no one is suggesting Phil for draft picks.

They might not be the Wings now, but they're trending in that direction where they have little prospects, little cap space, and a bunch of over 35 players they can't trade. BTW, Detroit had the oldest team in the league, few high end prospects coming up, about half the roster has NTC/NMC, and were 23 points from the playoffs......and haven't been past the 2nd round in a decade. Do you really not see them as a cautionary tale?

You can't lump Kessel in with Hagelin and Sheary. They aren't the same thing.

And no, I've never said you couldn't trade Phil. What I've said is you better receive the same back in either points scored or points prevented in that trade if you do. Don't expect others to get better as part of the deal.

What I'm saying about five years down the line is to let that take care of itself. If this was a middling team that was on the verge of the playoffs, then yes, concern yourself with five years down the line. But that isn't true. This is a team with a chance to be historically good over a seven year span. This is a team with the potential of being held up against the Islanders and Oilers of the '80s. You don't worry about what will happen five years from now when you have a team like that. You do what it takes to win now. I don't care if you have an entire team on walkers five years from now if we can get another two cups in that time period.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Malkintent on Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:13 am

pekkasteele wrote:
LimerickPensFan wrote:I just don't get why people think removing Kessel is anything but a devastating hit to this team. You talk about trading him like it wouldn't have a significant negative effect.

Who cares about five years from now when you have the ability to win the cup multiple times in the next three? Seriously. Is your goal to make it to the second round of the playoffs every year or to win as many cups as you can? Hey, let's just get rid of one of our top scorers, though. I mean, he had a playoff that wasn't as good as his last two, but was still pretty good compared to most players in this league. Nine points in twelve games is nothing to sneeze at.


How do you know the team will be worse without Pill? We would get something back, maybe a young LW that can score 50-60 points, and improve the D. say you get a D that can play 1st or 2nd pairing, depending on if it is a offensive or defensive D would make our 3rd pairing Oleksiak and Maatta och Oleksiak and Schultz, that would also help a long way, having Ruh and Hunwick as 7th and 8th D. Or if we could trade Hunwick to that would be great.

Who is this hypothetical 50-60 point young LW or improved D you speak of?
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Daniel on Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:20 am

Malkintent wrote:
pekkasteele wrote:
LimerickPensFan wrote:I just don't get why people think removing Kessel is anything but a devastating hit to this team. You talk about trading him like it wouldn't have a significant negative effect.

Who cares about five years from now when you have the ability to win the cup multiple times in the next three? Seriously. Is your goal to make it to the second round of the playoffs every year or to win as many cups as you can? Hey, let's just get rid of one of our top scorers, though. I mean, he had a playoff that wasn't as good as his last two, but was still pretty good compared to most players in this league. Nine points in twelve games is nothing to sneeze at.


How do you know the team will be worse without Pill? We would get something back, maybe a young LW that can score 50-60 points, and improve the D. say you get a D that can play 1st or 2nd pairing, depending on if it is a offensive or defensive D would make our 3rd pairing Oleksiak and Maatta och Oleksiak and Schultz, that would also help a long way, having Ruh and Hunwick as 7th and 8th D. Or if we could trade Hunwick to that would be great.

Who is this hypothetical 50-60 point young LW or improved D you speak of?


Brendan Perlini and Dysin Mayo?
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Jim on Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:23 am

If only there was a "Kessel trade thread" for the moronic trade Kessel talk...
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