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If the Pens had kept Fleury...

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Re: If the Pens had kept Fleury...

Postby thehockeyguru on Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:59 pm

FLPensFan wrote:FYI.....just something come across Twitter from Sportsnet Canada about Fleury saying he doesn't want to go anywhere else and wants to finish his career in Vegas. Sounds like he is loving it there.


Why wouldn't he? Zero pressure.
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Re: If the Pens had kept Fleury...

Postby Skatingpen on Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:46 pm

NJ5934 wrote:There's no point in debating this because at the time, there was no debate. It was the right move to make for every reason.

Murray could of been tighter but neither he or Brassard are the reason we're out



Murray is a big reason they are out
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Re: If the Pens had kept Fleury...

Postby Antonio on Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:18 am

Yeah Murray and Letang are pretty much 100% of why this team lost. Others could have played better, yes, but they single handedly cost them the series.
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Re: If the Pens had kept Fleury...

Postby IntangibleBeer on Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:37 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:FYI.....just something come across Twitter from Sportsnet Canada about Fleury saying he doesn't want to go anywhere else and wants to finish his career in Vegas. Sounds like he is loving it there.


Why wouldn't he? Zero pressure.


He had a career year there. If Vegas is able to upgrade their defense a little bit (Theodore was horrible in the SCF), they may find themselves right back in a Cup Final.
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Re: If the Pens had kept Fleury...

Postby DelPen on Sat Jun 09, 2018 1:35 pm

Stats are a funny thing, Murray looks to have had the best numbers vs the Caps but he let up some horrible goals, says more about this team still not giving up good scoring chances under Sully. Stupid mistakes and bad goal tending at times cost us the series. Vegas not scoring and bad defense was their downfall.

And all of this still doesn’t compare to how great the Caps played this spring. I’m giving them full credit, they bought in to a team concept fully and they had the talent come through when it mattered. Really reminded me of the 2016 Pens. No one was beating us that year and the Caps found ways to win.

If we had Fluery instead of Murray in an even swap I don’t think it changes much.

But the players we would have brought in for Murray...
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Re: If the Pens had kept Fleury...

Postby theblackarts on Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:08 pm

If the Pens had kept Fleury, they would have lost to the Caps, and Murray would have taken Vegas to finals, and Pittsburgh would be burning down right now. Please delete this thread haha.
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Re: If the Pens had kept Fleury...

Postby Skatingpen on Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:17 pm

I don’t think I have ever seen so much attention on a team winning the the cup as I am seeing with the Caps and especially OV. Either they are having much more fun or being much more of attention seekers, but the Pens never had this type of attention when they won. Especially on Twitter.
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Re: If the Pens had kept Fleury...

Postby LimerickPensFan on Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:04 pm

Skatingpen wrote:I don’t think I have ever seen so much attention on a team winning the the cup as I am seeing with the Caps and especially OV. Either they are having much more fun or being much more of attention seekers, but the Pens never had this type of attention when they won. Especially on Twitter.

Image
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Re: If the Pens had kept Fleury...

Postby Daniel on Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:18 pm

Skatingpen wrote:I don’t think I have ever seen so much attention on a team winning the the cup as I am seeing with the Caps and especially OV. Either they are having much more fun or being much more of attention seekers, but the Pens never had this type of attention when they won. Especially on Twitter.


Well, the Pens can act like they've been there before. The Caps? Not so much. :fist:
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Re: If the Pens had kept Fleury...

Postby FLPensFan on Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:00 pm

Daniel wrote:
Skatingpen wrote:I don’t think I have ever seen so much attention on a team winning the the cup as I am seeing with the Caps and especially OV. Either they are having much more fun or being much more of attention seekers, but the Pens never had this type of attention when they won. Especially on Twitter.


Well, the Pens can act like they've been there before. The Caps? Not so much. :fist:

Right. I think the hype here is, it's been 6-7 years since the Cup winning team won its first Cup, LA in 2012. Washington wins its first Cup, and one of the biggest stars of the game finally gets his Cup. The attention is deserved, and good for the game.
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Re: If the Pens had kept Fleury...

Postby State College Penguin on Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:56 pm

Malkintent wrote:I know the Pens needed the cap space but what if they had traded Murray and kept Fleury? Could they have still resigned all their RFAs? What could they have gotten for Murray? How might the team have been different?


Why even discuss this? Fleury was 2.5 million move expensive than Murray when he got his new contract. Someone else of decent significance would have had to be moved to keep Fleury. You also realize one of Fleury or Murray needed to be left unprotected? It was a rule. You couldn't move Murray; acquire whatever and then keep MAF. That is not what the rules allowed. So, its pointless to discuss in the grand scheme of things.
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Re: If the Pens had kept Fleury...

Postby LimerickPensFan on Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:23 pm

State College Penguin wrote:
Malkintent wrote:I know the Pens needed the cap space but what if they had traded Murray and kept Fleury? Could they have still resigned all their RFAs? What could they have gotten for Murray? How might the team have been different?


Why even discuss this? Fleury was 2.5 million move expensive than Murray when he got his new contract. Someone else of decent significance would have had to be moved to keep Fleury. You also realize one of Fleury or Murray needed to be left unprotected? It was a rule. You couldn't move Murray; acquire whatever and then keep MAF. That is not what the rules allowed. So, its pointless to discuss in the grand scheme of things.

Even if you could work it all out, Fleury didn't want to be second string to Murray for another year. He was a good soldier for one year. Not sure he would have been for a second.
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Re: If the Pens had kept Fleury...

Postby Malkintent on Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:15 am

State College Penguin wrote:
Malkintent wrote:I know the Pens needed the cap space but what if they had traded Murray and kept Fleury? Could they have still resigned all their RFAs? What could they have gotten for Murray? How might the team have been different?


Why even discuss this? Fleury was 2.5 million move expensive than Murray when he got his new contract. Someone else of decent significance would have had to be moved to keep Fleury. You also realize one of Fleury or Murray needed to be left unprotected? It was a rule. You couldn't move Murray; acquire whatever and then keep MAF. That is not what the rules allowed. So, its pointless to discuss in the grand scheme of things.

They could have moved Murray and protected Fleury. Not saying tjey should have but they could have.
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Re: If the Pens had kept Fleury...

Postby DelPen on Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:54 pm

[quote="Skatingpen"]I don’t think I have ever seen so much attention on a team winning the the cup as I am seeing with the Caps and especially OV. Either they are having much more fun or being much more of attention seekers, but the Pens never had this type of attention when they won. Especially on Twitter.[/quote]

I don’t think the Caps have come close to hitting the debauchery of the 1991 Pens. Didn’t they need to make some new rules on access to the Cup after it ended up in mario’s pool?

I think we have seen an appropriate amount of attention given to the Caps winning, it’s a big story.
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Re: If the Pens had kept Fleury...

Postby Puck-Lurker on Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:52 pm

Malkintent wrote:I know the Pens needed the cap space but what if they had traded Murray and kept Fleury? Could they have still resigned all their RFAs? What could they have gotten for Murray? How might the team have been different?

It's all moot..

But Fleury doesn't necessarily do better than Murray in the playoffs. You'd lose out at least one RFA (definitely Sheary), maybe two, don't get Sheahan. I'd really miss Sheahan, but that's about it.
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Re: If the Pens had kept Fleury...

Postby Hatrick on Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:20 pm

State College Penguin wrote:
Malkintent wrote:I know the Pens needed the cap space but what if they had traded Murray and kept Fleury? Could they have still resigned all their RFAs? What could they have gotten for Murray? How might the team have been different?


Why even discuss this? Fleury was 2.5 million move expensive than Murray when he got his new contract. Someone else of decent significance would have had to be moved to keep Fleury. You also realize one of Fleury or Murray needed to be left unprotected? It was a rule. You couldn't move Murray; acquire whatever and then keep MAF. That is not what the rules allowed. So, its pointless to discuss in the grand scheme of things.

actually that is false, they just needed to expose an eligible goaltender, it didn't have to be either fleury or murray. They could have traded one for pick/prospects/skaters and an eligible goalie and be completely within the rules. For whatever reason they did not want to do so(lack of trade partner or GMJR really wanting to keep everyone except fleury since that meant a skater is likely taken)
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Re: If the Pens had kept Fleury...

Postby LimerickPensFan on Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:33 pm

Hatrick wrote:
State College Penguin wrote:
Malkintent wrote:I know the Pens needed the cap space but what if they had traded Murray and kept Fleury? Could they have still resigned all their RFAs? What could they have gotten for Murray? How might the team have been different?


Why even discuss this? Fleury was 2.5 million move expensive than Murray when he got his new contract. Someone else of decent significance would have had to be moved to keep Fleury. You also realize one of Fleury or Murray needed to be left unprotected? It was a rule. You couldn't move Murray; acquire whatever and then keep MAF. That is not what the rules allowed. So, its pointless to discuss in the grand scheme of things.

actually that is false, they just needed to expose an eligible goaltender, it didn't have to be either fleury or murray. They could have traded one for pick/prospects/skaters and an eligible goalie and be completely within the rules. For whatever reason they did not want to do so(lack of trade partner or GMJR really wanting to keep everyone except fleury since that meant a skater is likely taken)

I thought I had heard that they knew back in February what they were going to do with this. Fleury was unhappy playing second fiddle here, and I think there were discussions with him about waiving the NTC, and discussions with Vegas that he would be available.
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Re: If the Pens had kept Fleury...

Postby KG on Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:18 am

This MAF/Murray debate is silly. People get on Murray for one below average post season, after winning 2 cups. However people are also forgetting the MAF we had in the playoffs during the Disco era. How many soft goals were allowed? Without Vokoun we don’t even beat the Islanders that year.

MAF played great this year but he also had zero pressure on him. He was great here but it was time to move on and hand the nets over to Murray.
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Re: If the Pens had kept Fleury...

Postby FLPensFan on Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:02 am

KG wrote:This MAF/Murray debate is silly. People get on Murray for one below average post season, after winning 2 cups. However people are also forgetting the MAF we had in the playoffs during the Disco era. How many soft goals were allowed? Without Vokoun we don’t even beat the Islanders that year.

MAF played great this year but he also had zero pressure on him. He was great here but it was time to move on and hand the nets over to Murray.

When Fleury's numbers regress to the norms for the 2018-2019 season, this discussion will die a very quick death.
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Re: If the Pens had kept Fleury...

Postby no name on Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:01 am

We'll have to revisit this thread when Seattle joins the league and we are debating on keeping Murray or Jarry.
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Re: If the Pens had kept Fleury...

Postby FLPensFan on Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:59 am

no name wrote:We'll have to revisit this thread when Seattle joins the league and we are debating on keeping Murray or Jarry.

I've already seen some stuff on the interwebs about people questioning trading Grubauer over Holtby. :shock:

Grubauer is good, and has put up high quality numbers each year, and deserves to start somewhere. But the age difference is only 2 years here, and I'm not trading a Vezina winning goalie still in his prime because he had a down year and got benched for the 1st 2 games of the playoffs.

Then again, how much money does Carlson want and what can they afford..... :pop:
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Re: If the Pens had kept Fleury...

Postby interstorm on Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:10 am

FLPensFan wrote:Then again, how much money does Carlson want and what can they afford..... :pop:


...and what is the difference between what the Caps could get for Grubauer and what they can get for Holtby. Interesting dilemma for Washington.
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Re: If the Pens had kept Fleury...

Postby FLPensFan on Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:09 am

interstorm wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Then again, how much money does Carlson want and what can they afford..... :pop:


...and what is the difference between what the Caps could get for Grubauer and what they can get for Holtby. Interesting dilemma for Washington.

Right, I think they'd get more for Holtby in a deal. I see they have 63M committed next season, needing to sign Grubauer, Tom Wilson, Jay Beagle, Devante SP, Michael Kempny, Madison Bowey and John Carlson.

If you put Carlson at 8M (71M committed)....
Tom Wilson at 3-3.5M (74M committed)
Beagle at 2M (76M committed)......

Those 3 put them over the current cap with 12 forwards, 5 defenseman, and 1 goalie. None of the guys remaining should break the bank, but can they get Kempny (who was great and deserves a decent raise), Bowey (RFA, should be minimal resign), DSP all signed for 4M, plus enough room for a backup goalie other than Grubauer? They would like go with Pheonix Copley from the minors in goal for only 650K.

If Carlson asks for more than 8M.......uh-oh......but just like the Penguins, I think they have an even smaller window. They need to keep Holtby and Carlsson, or their window is immediately shut.
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Re: If the Pens had kept Fleury...

Postby interstorm on Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:22 pm

FLPensFan wrote:If Carlson asks for more than 8M.......uh-oh......but just like the Penguins, I think they have an even smaller window. They need to keep Holtby and Carlsson, or their window is immediately shut.


And if they can only have one of those two players -- I probably would lean Carlsson and move Holtby's 6.1M cap hit (plus taking the greater returns). Not ideal as I am sure they'd want to keep both but in the salary cap world decisions like this need to be made.
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Re: If the Pens had kept Fleury...

Postby Hatrick on Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:58 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
no name wrote:We'll have to revisit this thread when Seattle joins the league and we are debating on keeping Murray or Jarry.

I've already seen some stuff on the interwebs about people questioning trading Grubauer over Holtby. :shock:

Grubauer is good, and has put up high quality numbers each year, and deserves to start somewhere. But the age difference is only 2 years here, and I'm not trading a Vezina winning goalie still in his prime because he had a down year and got benched for the 1st 2 games of the playoffs.

Then again, how much money does Carlson want and what can they afford..... :pop:

from what I have seen caps fans seem to think it will be trading Grubauer, so basically the exact opposite of what happened here. Although it is a big difference that they are trading due to cap and not just letting go due to expansion. Also I am not sure of the contract situation comparisons, Grubauer I know is a RFA but I cant remember when exactly the pens signed murray to his extension.
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