Ryan Reaves cites line matchups and trust issues w/Penguins

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Re: Ryan Reaves cites line matchups and trust issues w/Pengu

Postby LimerickPensFan on Tue May 22, 2018 2:53 pm

Jim wrote:Reaves wouldn't have given Wilson the option to skate away. He wouldn't have 'asked". Just saying.

He did during the season, and Wilson - of course - skated away.

Although I think you are right - after the Dumoulin hit. Don't think Reaves would have taken no after that.
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Re: Ryan Reaves cites line matchups and trust issues w/Pengu

Postby Jim on Tue May 22, 2018 7:58 pm

LimerickPensFan wrote:
Jim wrote:Reaves wouldn't have given Wilson the option to skate away. He wouldn't have 'asked". Just saying.

He did during the season, and Wilson - of course - skated away.

Although I think you are right - after the Dumoulin hit. Don't think Reaves would have taken no after that.


Wilson didn't really Wilson when Reaves was in the lineup so it wasn't really a factor.
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Re: Ryan Reaves cites line matchups and trust issues w/Pengu

Postby brwi on Tue May 22, 2018 8:09 pm

Trust is not easily earned in Vegas with Gallant, and I don't know if Reaves is there yet, though it sounds nice to hear. Getting scratched for the Kings series (hello big boy hockey with tons of cheap crap too) and then 5 more games after doesn't sound like TOO much trust.

A guy who is wondering about being trusted is Tatar. Vegas goes out at the deadline and gives up a 1st,2nd, and 3rd for the dude and Gallant gives him the nacho spot for 9 of the Knights 15 playoff games, similar to Reaves but Vegas gave a lot more to get him.

Gallant seems like he definitely wants to ride the horses that brought them there for most of the season,and the new arrivals haven't really earned a shot yet, save Reaves getting inserted recently into the line up. and scoring. Then again, Tatar did get a goal and 2 games later was back to nachos. I'd be surprised if Reaves dressed for a TB series but would expect him vs. the Caps, but who knows?
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Re: Ryan Reaves cites line matchups and trust issues w/Pengu

Postby flame on Wed May 23, 2018 5:26 am

brwi wrote:Trust is not easily earned in Vegas with Gallant, and I don't know if Reaves is there yet, though it sounds nice to hear. Getting scratched for the Kings series (hello big boy hockey with tons of cheap crap too) and then 5 more games after doesn't sound like TOO much trust.

A guy who is wondering about being trusted is Tatar. Vegas goes out at the deadline and gives up a 1st,2nd, and 3rd for the dude and Gallant gives him the nacho spot for 9 of the Knights 15 playoff games, similar to Reaves but Vegas gave a lot more to get him.

Gallant seems like he definitely wants to ride the horses that brought them there for most of the season,and the new arrivals haven't really earned a shot yet, save Reaves getting inserted recently into the line up. and scoring. Then again, Tatar did get a goal and 2 games later was back to nachos. I'd be surprised if Reaves dressed for a TB series but would expect him vs. the Caps, but who knows?

Tatar has looked awful in Vegas, many here suspense he will look better after a full training camp. He looked a bit better in the two games he played vs Winnipeg but not enough to be in the top 9 with Perron back (and he doesn’t fit their fourth line). He also definitely isn’t trusted much because he saw minimal third period action with Vegas having the lead.
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Re: Ryan Reaves cites line matchups and trust issues w/Pengu

Postby itissteeltime on Tue May 29, 2018 7:16 am

It turns out Ryan reaves isn't a deterrent for Tom Wilson to play dirty. Who woulda thought?
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Re: Ryan Reaves cites line matchups and trust issues w/Pengu

Postby penny lane on Tue May 29, 2018 7:42 am

Thankfully Tom Wilson is his own deterrent~ former ref K Fraser thinks Wilson should be suspended. We'll see.
Niskanen all upset about the cross check and then the goal by Reaves- What did penguin fans read all of the time~ any team that employs Matt Cooke, doesn't have the right to complain.
Kerry Fraser
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The 5 + game misconduct for Interference was instituted for the very type of late blindside hit Tom Wilson just delivered.


You're right, Reaves cannot account for the reckless play of any player.
What should give Coach Sullivan a painful stomach ailment is watching Reaves take regular shifts and contribute in the play-offs. I hope Coach will learn to never make a snap judgement on a player again.
Vegas has 4 lines going, they all don't have to be the same type of lines.
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Re: Ryan Reaves cites line matchups and trust issues w/Pengu

Postby itissteeltime on Tue May 29, 2018 9:03 am

I hear you, and I don't necessarily disagree, but I don't think anybody here wanted reaves sticking around for his scoring prowess.
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Re: Ryan Reaves cites line matchups and trust issues w/Pengu

Postby NJ5934 on Tue May 29, 2018 9:26 am

And that is the NHL in a nutshell, long time and respected ref Kerry Fraser pointing out that it was the kind of late hit the league, at one point, intended to crack down and....and then Mike Ruff on a national broadcast stating he's sat in on recent discliplinary hearings and knows the hit is well within the boundaries of fair play.
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Re: Ryan Reaves cites line matchups and trust issues w/Pengu

Postby theblackarts on Tue May 29, 2018 9:49 am

It's just hard to be upset at Sullivan for not using a player that obviously didn't fit into his system. Have to wonder what JR was thinking there; seems like a bit of a knee jerk move or a brain fart given his usual insight.
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Re: Ryan Reaves cites line matchups and trust issues w/Pengu

Postby Jim on Tue May 29, 2018 10:28 am

theblackarts wrote:It's just hard to be upset at Sullivan for not using a player that obviously didn't fit into his system. Have to wonder what JR was thinking there; seems like a bit of a knee jerk move or a brain fart given his usual insight.


The rumor (acknowledging that it is rumor) is that Rutherford was instructed by his bosses (ie: Mario) to get someone that would help deter some of the blatant over the edge stuff that the star players (Crosby, etc) were facing each night. mario knows all about the garage league and that sometimes a little extra is needed.
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Re: Ryan Reaves cites line matchups and trust issues w/Pengu

Postby jeffshly on Tue May 29, 2018 2:26 pm

And herein lies the problem. I know I'm going to take some grief over this, but hear me out. A good coach will adjust his system to maximize the players' effectiveness. Instead, it seems that Sullivan is intent on jettisoning players who don't fit his system or with whom he has personality conflicts. Reaves didn't fit he system, per se, but he was there to be a deterrent in some situations. Getting fourth line minutes, his impact, positive or negative, would be minimal. Then you have Ian Cole. Cole didn't fit the system, per se, in that he's not the most skilled skater, but he was one of the Pens two best pure shut-down d-men. Now, only Dumoulin remains in that category. But personality conflicts led to his demotion and, ultimately, being traded. And now, it's Kessel. Kessel was a beast all season, and the GM came out and said injuries hampered him in the playoffs. Sullivan contradicted his GM by minimizing Kessel's ailments to "bumps and bruises" like everyone else has, but anyone with an iota of hockey knowledge knows that Kessel's shot was limited so much that he quit taking them. Guarantee there's a wrist, hand, or elbow injury there, most likely his right wrist. And now, a 90+ point scorer on a sweetheart contract is trade bait? Because they grow on trees, right? On a separate note, how well is Brassard "fitting into the system."

Sullivan has been great since he's had players who fit his system. But again, a good coach will tweak things to maximize the effectiveness of his players (in other words, "get the most" from his players). How good is Sullivan at doing this, and how many good or potentially good contributors are going to be sent to other teams (in Cole's case, a division rival) while he continues to put all his faith and focus into small players who aren't willing to take hits to make plays? Sheary, Simon, and, to a lesser degree, Rust are small guys who get bounced around like pinballs. Didn't Bylsma get skewered for keeping guys like Gibbons, Jeffrey, Letestu, and Conner in his lineup? And if Reaves was brought in at Mario's behest, how short a leash will Sully be on if they do trade Kessel?
Last edited by jeffshly on Tue May 29, 2018 3:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ryan Reaves cites line matchups and trust issues w/Pengu

Postby Jim on Tue May 29, 2018 2:31 pm

The Pens were winning so the vast majority of people simply put on blinders and said idiotic things like "He's won two Cups" as if that means that he makes no mistakes. Now many of those people are taking off those blinders and are stumbling over going with the coolaid that they have been drinking for the last 2 years compared to what their eyes are actually telling them now.

Ring ring... who ordered this wake-up call?
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Re: Ryan Reaves cites line matchups and trust issues w/Pengu

Postby Daniel on Tue May 29, 2018 3:26 pm

jeffshly wrote:And herein lies the problem. I know I'm going to take some grief over this, but hear me out. A good coach will adjust his system to maximize the players' effectiveness. Instead, it seems that Sullivan is intent on jettisoning players who don't fit his system or with whom he has personality conflicts. Reaves didn't fit he system, per se, but he was there to be a deterrent in some situations. Getting fourth line minutes, his impact, positive or negative, would be minimal. Then you have Ian Cole. Cole didn't fit the system, per se, in that he's not the most skilled skater, but he was one of the Pens two best pure shut-down d-men. Now, only Dumoulin remains in that category. But personality conflicts led to his demotion and, ultimately, being traded. And now, it's Kessel. Kessel was a beast all season, and the GM came out and said injuries hampered him in the playoffs. Sullivan contradicted his GM by minimizing Kessel's ailments to "bumps and bruises" like everyone else has, but anyone with an iota of hockey knowledge knows that Kessel's shot was limited so much that he quit taking them. Guarantee there's a wrist, hand, or elbow injury there, most likely his right wrist. And now, a 90+ point scorer on a sweetheart contract is trade bait? Because they grow on trees, right? On a separate note, how well is Brassard "fitting into the system."

Sullivan has been great since he's had players who fit his system. But again, a good coach will tweak things to maximize the effectiveness of his players (in other words, "get the most" from his players). How good is Sullivan at doing this, and how many good or potentially good contributors are going to be sent to other teams (in Cole's case, a division rival) while he continues to put all his faith and focus into small players who aren't willing to take hits to make plays? Sheary, Simon, and, to a lesser degree, Rust are small guys who get bounced around like pinballs. Didn't Bylsma get skewered for keeping guys like Gibbons, Jeffrey, Letestu, and Conner in his lineup? And if Reaves was brought in at Mario's behest, how short a leash will Sully be on if they do trade Kessel?


That's the age old question in sports, do you get players to fit the system or adapt the system to the players. We've seen what happens when the players play the system, they tend to dominate other teams.

As for Reaves, I think he was an okay match for the system, no better or worse than Rowney or Kuhnhackl. I think if Sullivan had given him a chance, I think he'd have been fine. I think Oleksiak can more than replace Cole, but we'll see next year.

I chalk it up to Sullivan having a bad season and we'll see what happens next year.
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Re: Ryan Reaves cites line matchups and trust issues w/Pengu

Postby LimerickPensFan on Tue May 29, 2018 3:44 pm

I wouldn't even say Sullivan had a bad year.

He lost in a close series to a team that took them to seven games last year. This with a team that had a core of players that had played more hockey in the last two years than anyone else was even close to. He brought a team that was playing pretty badly at midseason up to being a strong contender for the cup again.

The guy is 9-1 in playoff series. One loss, and everyone is tanking on him and wondering if he has it. I think we need a little bit of a reality break here.
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Re: Ryan Reaves cites line matchups and trust issues w/Pengu

Postby jeffshly on Tue May 29, 2018 3:59 pm

LimerickPensFan wrote:One loss, and everyone is tanking on him and wondering if he has it. I think we need a little bit of a reality break here.

Don't get my comments wrong: I'm not saying that Sully needs to go. He runs a system that is very successful and that this team pays well within. However, I'm just saying I don't agree with some of the moves he's made. I didn't agree with Cole/Reaves-for-Brassard (though I understood it, I just saw it being a revised version of bringing in Iginla and Morrow) and I definitely don't think you replace Kessel with Sprong without losing something. I don't agree with calling out Kessel publicly - and contradicting your GM when doing so - as it accomplishes nothing. If Sullivan had an issue with Kessel and his Ironman streak, then he was well within his authority to give him some maintenance days at the end of the regular season. Kessel would've fought him, as any player would, but that was Sullivan's call. Calling out Kessel outside of their exit interview did absolutely nothing to benefit this team.

But if it widens the rift between them, and that rifts ends with Kessel being traded, I'd have to think that any manager or owner would think that Sullivan was undermining their decisions. And if you assume that to be true, I'd expect that Mario has Sullivan on a short leash.

But again, don't get me wrong. I don't want to see Sullivan canned. I want him here with this team doing great things. I want all of this drama to go away and the Pens focused on winning three in four years. Sullivan is an important piece to that puzzle. But, in my mind, so is Kessel. Sullivan needs to find a way to coach him without the benefit of Tocchet being on the bench. That's what a great coach would do.
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Re: Ryan Reaves cites line matchups and trust issues w/Pengu

Postby Daniel on Tue May 29, 2018 4:14 pm

LimerickPensFan wrote:I wouldn't even say Sullivan had a bad year.

He lost in a close series to a team that took them to seven games last year. This with a team that had a core of players that had played more hockey in the last two years than anyone else was even close to. He brought a team that was playing pretty badly at midseason up to being a strong contender for the cup again.

The guy is 9-1 in playoff series. One loss, and everyone is tanking on him and wondering if he has it. I think we need a little bit of a reality break here.


I do, the team seemed disinterested for most of the season. Playing Reaves 4 minutes a night and completely under valuing him. Granted, I don't see practices so unknown what happened that I didn't see, but on the ice Reaves seemed like a nice 4th line player.

I checked in about December and Pens were undefeated, or maybe one loss, when Reaves played 8-10 minutes in a game.

Playing Kessel on the 1st PP, or at all, when he was obviously hurt and struggling.

Look, I am with you on the "wondering if he has it". I don't think he's lost it, I just think he had a bad season. Not because of the Caps series, that's an overall season opinion. Just little things. The team seeming disinterested for a lot of the season is huge for me.

I don't think he should be fire, or on the hot seat, or his job status even discussed. I think he's a fantastic coach who had a bad season. He'll learn and be better next season.
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Re: Ryan Reaves cites line matchups and trust issues w/Pengu

Postby Jim on Tue May 29, 2018 5:40 pm

It's not just Reaves playing low minutes, it's the 3rd D paring and the bottom two lines. Your team had played more hockey over the last few seasons than anybody else. The top lines are going to wear down somewhat. Play your 4th line 2 or 3 extra minutes a game, 3rd line an extra minute or 2, 3rd paring a bit extra. Your top O and D lines still play a lot, but over a few months, or even a season, they slightly less time adds up and they are not as worn down.

But no... Letang gets 25+, Crosby 20+. Foolishness.
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Re: Ryan Reaves cites line matchups and trust issues w/Pengu

Postby Daniel on Tue May 29, 2018 5:50 pm

Jim wrote:It's not just Reaves playing low minutes, it's the 3rd D paring and the bottom two lines. Your team had played more hockey over the last few seasons than anybody else. The top lines are going to wear down somewhat. Play your 4th line 2 or 3 extra minutes a game, 3rd line an extra minute or 2, 3rd paring a bit extra. Your top O and D lines still play a lot, but over a few months, or even a season, they slightly less time adds up and they are not as worn down.

But no... Letang gets 25+, Crosby 20+. Foolishness.


They were playing lackluster hockey, might as well spread the minutes around. I would agree that the 4th line had an AHL center and the 3C was getting acclimated, and that would contribute, but that's on Rutherford, but still doesn't dismiss the Crosby 20+ and Letang 25+ minutes per game.

I think Sullivan will learn from his mistakes (hopefully by upgrading Recchi), so we'll see what happens next season.
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Re: Ryan Reaves cites line matchups and trust issues w/Pengu

Postby LimerickPensFan on Tue May 29, 2018 6:16 pm

jeffshly wrote:
LimerickPensFan wrote:One loss, and everyone is tanking on him and wondering if he has it. I think we need a little bit of a reality break here.

Don't get my comments wrong: I'm not saying that Sully needs to go. He runs a system that is very successful and that this team pays well within. However, I'm just saying I don't agree with some of the moves he's made. I didn't agree with Cole/Reaves-for-Brassard (though I understood it, I just saw it being a revised version of bringing in Iginla and Morrow) and I definitely don't think you replace Kessel with Sprong without losing something. I don't agree with calling out Kessel publicly - and contradicting your GM when doing so - as it accomplishes nothing. If Sullivan had an issue with Kessel and his Ironman streak, then he was well within his authority to give him some maintenance days at the end of the regular season. Kessel would've fought him, as any player would, but that was Sullivan's call. Calling out Kessel outside of their exit interview did absolutely nothing to benefit this team.

But if it widens the rift between them, and that rifts ends with Kessel being traded, I'd have to think that any manager or owner would think that Sullivan was undermining their decisions. And if you assume that to be true, I'd expect that Mario has Sullivan on a short leash.

But again, don't get me wrong. I don't want to see Sullivan canned. I want him here with this team doing great things. I want all of this drama to go away and the Pens focused on winning three in four years. Sullivan is an important piece to that puzzle. But, in my mind, so is Kessel. Sullivan needs to find a way to coach him without the benefit of Tocchet being on the bench. That's what a great coach would do.

I think the only thing I've actually seen about a rift between Sullivan and Kessel was the Ron Cook article and Josh Yohe quoting that article. Reading Sully's goodbye letter to the fans, he certainly didn't seem that there was a rift there, since he specifically pointed out that he was looking forward to working with Kessel next season. I just put this supposed rift on about equal footing with Rossi's report a couple of years ago saying how Geno wanted out of town.
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Re: Ryan Reaves cites line matchups and trust issues w/Pengu

Postby LimerickPensFan on Tue May 29, 2018 6:22 pm

Daniel wrote:
LimerickPensFan wrote:I wouldn't even say Sullivan had a bad year.

He lost in a close series to a team that took them to seven games last year. This with a team that had a core of players that had played more hockey in the last two years than anyone else was even close to. He brought a team that was playing pretty badly at midseason up to being a strong contender for the cup again.

The guy is 9-1 in playoff series. One loss, and everyone is tanking on him and wondering if he has it. I think we need a little bit of a reality break here.


I do, the team seemed disinterested for most of the season. Playing Reaves 4 minutes a night and completely under valuing him. Granted, I don't see practices so unknown what happened that I didn't see, but on the ice Reaves seemed like a nice 4th line player.

I checked in about December and Pens were undefeated, or maybe one loss, when Reaves played 8-10 minutes in a game.

Playing Kessel on the 1st PP, or at all, when he was obviously hurt and struggling.

Look, I am with you on the "wondering if he has it". I don't think he's lost it, I just think he had a bad season. Not because of the Caps series, that's an overall season opinion. Just little things. The team seeming disinterested for a lot of the season is huge for me.

I don't think he should be fire, or on the hot seat, or his job status even discussed. I think he's a fantastic coach who had a bad season. He'll learn and be better next season.

If you remember, the Pens seemed a bit disinterested the first part of the 2016-2017 season as well. This season they just didn't seem to be able to turn it around like they did last season. Not sure why that is, but the first place I'd look is that we lost precious few players in the 2016 off season, but we lost some significant character guys in the 2017 off season in Cullen and Bonino. We lost two key centers, and didn't replace one until the trading deadline (and then had some bad luck with him getting injured right when he started to gel with the rest of his line). We also lost a big lockerroom guy in Fleury. I'm also not sure if Murray really fully recovered from his concussion. He was playing great prior to the concussion. He never seemed to get that back after it, though.
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Re: Ryan Reaves cites line matchups and trust issues w/Pengu

Postby Daniel on Tue May 29, 2018 6:25 pm

LimerickPensFan wrote:
Daniel wrote:
LimerickPensFan wrote:I wouldn't even say Sullivan had a bad year.

He lost in a close series to a team that took them to seven games last year. This with a team that had a core of players that had played more hockey in the last two years than anyone else was even close to. He brought a team that was playing pretty badly at midseason up to being a strong contender for the cup again.

The guy is 9-1 in playoff series. One loss, and everyone is tanking on him and wondering if he has it. I think we need a little bit of a reality break here.


I do, the team seemed disinterested for most of the season. Playing Reaves 4 minutes a night and completely under valuing him. Granted, I don't see practices so unknown what happened that I didn't see, but on the ice Reaves seemed like a nice 4th line player.

I checked in about December and Pens were undefeated, or maybe one loss, when Reaves played 8-10 minutes in a game.

Playing Kessel on the 1st PP, or at all, when he was obviously hurt and struggling.

Look, I am with you on the "wondering if he has it". I don't think he's lost it, I just think he had a bad season. Not because of the Caps series, that's an overall season opinion. Just little things. The team seeming disinterested for a lot of the season is huge for me.

I don't think he should be fire, or on the hot seat, or his job status even discussed. I think he's a fantastic coach who had a bad season. He'll learn and be better next season.

If you remember, the Pens seemed a bit disinterested the first part of the 2016-2017 season as well. This season they just didn't seem to be able to turn it around like they did last season. Not sure why that is, but the first place I'd look is that we lost precious few players in the 2016 off season, but we lost some significant character guys in the 2017 off season in Cullen and Bonino. We lost two key centers, and didn't replace one until the trading deadline (and then had some bad luck with him getting injured right when he started to gel with the rest of his line). We also lost a big lockerroom guy in Fleury. I'm also not sure if Murray really fully recovered from his concussion. He was playing great prior to the concussion. He never seemed to get that back after it, though.



They were disinterested, because the coach lost them in my opinion. It took Sullivan to come right the ship. I hope that isn't the case, especially since the team turned it up a notch when 2018 hit.

I agree that Rutherford didn't do him any favors by waiting so long to add to the C depth, but I think Rutherford also had a bad year. :) I think next year will be fine.
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Re: Ryan Reaves cites line matchups and trust issues w/Pengu

Postby LimerickPensFan on Tue May 29, 2018 6:32 pm

Daniel wrote:
LimerickPensFan wrote:
Daniel wrote:
LimerickPensFan wrote:I wouldn't even say Sullivan had a bad year.

He lost in a close series to a team that took them to seven games last year. This with a team that had a core of players that had played more hockey in the last two years than anyone else was even close to. He brought a team that was playing pretty badly at midseason up to being a strong contender for the cup again.

The guy is 9-1 in playoff series. One loss, and everyone is tanking on him and wondering if he has it. I think we need a little bit of a reality break here.


I do, the team seemed disinterested for most of the season. Playing Reaves 4 minutes a night and completely under valuing him. Granted, I don't see practices so unknown what happened that I didn't see, but on the ice Reaves seemed like a nice 4th line player.

I checked in about December and Pens were undefeated, or maybe one loss, when Reaves played 8-10 minutes in a game.

Playing Kessel on the 1st PP, or at all, when he was obviously hurt and struggling.

Look, I am with you on the "wondering if he has it". I don't think he's lost it, I just think he had a bad season. Not because of the Caps series, that's an overall season opinion. Just little things. The team seeming disinterested for a lot of the season is huge for me.

I don't think he should be fire, or on the hot seat, or his job status even discussed. I think he's a fantastic coach who had a bad season. He'll learn and be better next season.

If you remember, the Pens seemed a bit disinterested the first part of the 2016-2017 season as well. This season they just didn't seem to be able to turn it around like they did last season. Not sure why that is, but the first place I'd look is that we lost precious few players in the 2016 off season, but we lost some significant character guys in the 2017 off season in Cullen and Bonino. We lost two key centers, and didn't replace one until the trading deadline (and then had some bad luck with him getting injured right when he started to gel with the rest of his line). We also lost a big lockerroom guy in Fleury. I'm also not sure if Murray really fully recovered from his concussion. He was playing great prior to the concussion. He never seemed to get that back after it, though.



They were disinterested, because the coach lost them in my opinion. It took Sullivan to come right the ship. I hope that isn't the case, especially since the team turned it up a notch when 2018 hit.

I agree that Rutherford didn't do him any favors by waiting so long to add to the C depth, but I think Rutherford also had a bad year. :) I think next year will be fine.

I'm talking about the season between the two cups. iirc, they had a pretty slow start that season as well.
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Re: Ryan Reaves cites line matchups and trust issues w/Pengu

Postby Daniel on Tue May 29, 2018 6:40 pm

LimerickPensFan wrote:
Daniel wrote:
LimerickPensFan wrote:
Daniel wrote:
LimerickPensFan wrote:I wouldn't even say Sullivan had a bad year.

He lost in a close series to a team that took them to seven games last year. This with a team that had a core of players that had played more hockey in the last two years than anyone else was even close to. He brought a team that was playing pretty badly at midseason up to being a strong contender for the cup again.

The guy is 9-1 in playoff series. One loss, and everyone is tanking on him and wondering if he has it. I think we need a little bit of a reality break here.


I do, the team seemed disinterested for most of the season. Playing Reaves 4 minutes a night and completely under valuing him. Granted, I don't see practices so unknown what happened that I didn't see, but on the ice Reaves seemed like a nice 4th line player.

I checked in about December and Pens were undefeated, or maybe one loss, when Reaves played 8-10 minutes in a game.

Playing Kessel on the 1st PP, or at all, when he was obviously hurt and struggling.

Look, I am with you on the "wondering if he has it". I don't think he's lost it, I just think he had a bad season. Not because of the Caps series, that's an overall season opinion. Just little things. The team seeming disinterested for a lot of the season is huge for me.

I don't think he should be fire, or on the hot seat, or his job status even discussed. I think he's a fantastic coach who had a bad season. He'll learn and be better next season.

If you remember, the Pens seemed a bit disinterested the first part of the 2016-2017 season as well. This season they just didn't seem to be able to turn it around like they did last season. Not sure why that is, but the first place I'd look is that we lost precious few players in the 2016 off season, but we lost some significant character guys in the 2017 off season in Cullen and Bonino. We lost two key centers, and didn't replace one until the trading deadline (and then had some bad luck with him getting injured right when he started to gel with the rest of his line). We also lost a big lockerroom guy in Fleury. I'm also not sure if Murray really fully recovered from his concussion. He was playing great prior to the concussion. He never seemed to get that back after it, though.



They were disinterested, because the coach lost them in my opinion. It took Sullivan to come right the ship. I hope that isn't the case, especially since the team turned it up a notch when 2018 hit.

I agree that Rutherford didn't do him any favors by waiting so long to add to the C depth, but I think Rutherford also had a bad year. :) I think next year will be fine.


I'm talking about the season between the two cups. iirc, they had a pretty slow start that season as well.


I thought you were talking about the season Johnston was replaced by Sullivan. They were disinterested and Sullivan lit a fire under them with the system he deployed.

In the end, the Pens aren't that far off so maybe a long summer will be enough to have another run of back to back to back cups. :fist:
Daniel
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Re: Ryan Reaves cites line matchups and trust issues w/Pengu

Postby jeffshly on Wed May 30, 2018 12:51 pm

LimerickPensFan wrote:I think the only thing I've actually seen about a rift between Sullivan and Kessel was the Ron Cook article and Josh Yohe quoting that article. Reading Sully's goodbye letter to the fans, he certainly didn't seem that there was a rift there, since he specifically pointed out that he was looking forward to working with Kessel next season. I just put this supposed rift on about equal footing with Rossi's report a couple of years ago saying how Geno wanted out of town.

I SOOO very much hope you're right!!
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Re: Ryan Reaves cites line matchups and trust issues w/Pengu

Postby wondermoose on Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:47 am

People get very passionate about Reaves, but I always thought it was a worthwhile experiment. He had the potential to be a quasi-regular skater and it just didn't work. That's okay - Pens didn't give up anything important for it.
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