POLL: Trading Sprong for a winger.

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If you traded Sprong for a winger, you would want:

Poll ended at Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:16 pm

Jeff Skinner
2
10%
Nino Niederreiter
2
10%
Jason Zucker
2
10%
Max Pacioretty
3
15%
Wayne Simmonds
2
10%
None, keep Sprong/Sheary instead.
7
35%
Someone not listed.
2
10%
 
Total votes : 20

POLL: Trading Sprong for a winger.

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:16 pm

Lots of chatter about lots of wingers out in the market. Tonight, I've heard Jason Zucker from Minnesota could be available. So, I figured if we were to keep Kessel, and were able to ship out Sheary and Sprong for a winger, who would people want to see come back. Pure speculation, but a lot of teams that may be looking to move players may be looking for a young player like Sprong in return.
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Re: POLL: Trading Sprong for a winger.

Postby RentedMule66 on Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:00 am

I'd love to get Pacioretty, but Sheary and Sprong won't get it done.
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Re: POLL: Trading Sprong for a winger.

Postby penny lane on Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:19 am

Keep Sprong!
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Re: POLL: Trading Sprong for a winger.

Postby Jim on Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:33 am

Sprong is an enigma to me. If people in the know (ie: not "writers") think that he is not going to pop for the Pens, then move him while he still has value. if people in the know think that he will be a contender, then keep him. However, there seems to be EXTREME mixed messages about Sprong.
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Re: POLL: Trading Sprong for a winger.

Postby FLPensFan on Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:52 am

Jim wrote:Sprong is an enigma to me. If people in the know (ie: not "writers") think that he is not going to pop for the Pens, then move him while he still has value. if people in the know think that he will be a contender, then keep him. However, there seems to be EXTREME mixed messages about Sprong.

Its Pouliot part 2....really is. The biggest problem I see is Rutherford should have forced Sully to play him down the stretch. There simply isn't enough NHL footage of him recently to make an educated decision which way his career is going to go.

And like Pouliot, he could end up being a better fit under a different coach.
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Re: POLL: Trading Sprong for a winger.

Postby Daniel on Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:05 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
Jim wrote:Sprong is an enigma to me. If people in the know (ie: not "writers") think that he is not going to pop for the Pens, then move him while he still has value. if people in the know think that he will be a contender, then keep him. However, there seems to be EXTREME mixed messages about Sprong.

Its Pouliot part 2....really is. The biggest problem I see is Rutherford should have forced Sully to play him down the stretch. There simply isn't enough NHL footage of him recently to make an educated decision which way his career is going to go.

And like Pouliot, he could end up being a better fit under a different coach.


Frankly, if the Pens want to get younger and faster, trading Sprong is the exact opposite. It really just adds to the list of "if Sullivan doesn't like you, he'll devalue you until you're gone" list of players. After awhile, the constant to that will be Sullivan.
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Re: POLL: Trading Sprong for a winger.

Postby DelPen on Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:20 pm

I’d be fine moving Sprong for the right deal but what other cap space are you moving to bring any of them back?
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Re: POLL: Trading Sprong for a winger.

Postby Daniel on Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:39 pm

DelPen wrote:I’d be fine moving Sprong for the right deal but what other cap space are you moving to bring any of them back?


Maybe they find the right deal and maybe Sprong is part of a Letang trade (for example). Sprongs adds 3 things this team desperately needs. Speed, youth, good cap hit. I see a trade worsening all 3 of those and hard to see how it makes the team better.
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Re: POLL: Trading Sprong for a winger.

Postby Pitts on Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:29 pm

RentedMule66 wrote:I'd love to get Pacioretty, but Sheary and Sprong won't get it done.

No, but Brassard and Sheary OR Sprong probably would.
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Re: POLL: Trading Sprong for a winger.

Postby FLPensFan on Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:31 pm

Daniel wrote:
DelPen wrote:I’d be fine moving Sprong for the right deal but what other cap space are you moving to bring any of them back?


Maybe they find the right deal and maybe Sprong is part of a Letang trade (for example). Sprongs adds 3 things this team desperately needs. Speed, youth, good cap hit. I see a trade worsening all 3 of those and hard to see how it makes the team better.

Fair argument, Daniel. :thumb:
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Re: POLL: Trading Sprong for a winger.

Postby thehockeyguru on Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:05 pm

I'm not trading Sprong for anything at this point. The list of players I look to move is short: Letang, Sheary, and Hunwick.
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Re: POLL: Trading Sprong for a winger.

Postby Cow_Master66 on Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:33 pm

I for one am not in favor of trading a young right-handed winger with 40+ goal potential and don't see why anyone else would be either. He's just what this team needs right now....Actually he's what most teams are looking for. There's only so many RWs with his skill set, so unless there's truth behind his attitude problem and/or no hope for him to improve his defense, I don't get the idea of moving him right now. This is coming from someone who's very much in the win-now mindset too.

Sprong/Kessel could certainly be considered the top 2 RW combos in the league by years end.
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Re: POLL: Trading Sprong for a winger.

Postby State College Penguin on Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:08 pm

There are a lot of people grossly overrating Daniel Sprong. There was a reason why he got little run last year with the Pens. His two-way game sucks. Now, Pittsburgh is in a position that they either have to gift him a spot on the roster, or have to hope he clears waivers when/if he is sent down. That is a problem. This organization's farm system is the worst in the NHL as far as talent. Sprong is the best we supposedly have and his game doesn't seem close to being impactful.

He doesn't have much value on the trade front. Every GM in this league knows it too. Why give up something good for a guy that the Pens might have to force in the lineup and if he fails, he can be grabbed off waivers or gotten in a trade for little.
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Re: POLL: Trading Sprong for a winger.

Postby State College Penguin on Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:09 pm

Cow_Master66 wrote:I for one am not in favor of trading a young right-handed winger with 40+ goal potential and don't see why anyone else would be either. He's just what this team needs right now....Actually he's what most teams are looking for. There's only so many RWs with his skill set, so unless there's truth behind his attitude problem and/or no hope for him to improve his defense, I don't get the idea of moving him right now. This is coming from someone who's very much in the win-now mindset too.

Sprong/Kessel could certainly be considered the top 2 RW combos in the league by years end.



Potential is a word that gets coaches and GMs fired more than hired. There is a reason why he wasn't up here last year. Why people can't see this is beyond me. He is closer to a bust than an impact player here. He is what the team needs now? A guy with a lousy two way game?
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Re: POLL: Trading Sprong for a winger.

Postby Daniel on Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:38 pm

State College Penguin wrote:
Cow_Master66 wrote:I for one am not in favor of trading a young right-handed winger with 40+ goal potential and don't see why anyone else would be either. He's just what this team needs right now....Actually he's what most teams are looking for. There's only so many RWs with his skill set, so unless there's truth behind his attitude problem and/or no hope for him to improve his defense, I don't get the idea of moving him right now. This is coming from someone who's very much in the win-now mindset too.

Sprong/Kessel could certainly be considered the top 2 RW combos in the league by years end.



Potential is a word that gets coaches and GMs fired more than hired. There is a reason why he wasn't up here last year. Why people can't see this is beyond me. He is closer to a bust than an impact player here. He is what the team needs now? A guy with a lousy two way game?


He might be a bust, he might never be an impact player, but trading him now is trading low and will hurt the team overall. The team drafted the kid knowing defense was a weakness, started his ELC too soon, and now have to give a new contract or trade him. Total waste of time and money and very poor asset management.

It isn't Sprong's fault that this should be the 2nd year of his ELC and the Penguins burned his waiver status while rushing him for no reason whatsoever. They need to compensate for his defensive liabilities and hope he can improve as the year progresses.

This team has a terrible farm system, they have one of the oldest teams in the league, their cap situation is a mess, and they might trade the one player that can potentially help all those issues? Again, not suggesting he's a HOF player, or even an All Star, but I am thinking that he should be given more than the 26 NHL games (18 or which were wasted to blow his ELC/waiver) to determine his future with the Penguins.

Better than adding more age and cap space to an already old and expensive team.
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Re: POLL: Trading Sprong for a winger.

Postby stonewizard51 on Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:59 pm

I go to all WBS games when they come to Hershey.

A few things I've noticed about Sprong, and this may be do to being rushed thru the system,

His defense (as previously stated) is lacking.

His 5 on 5 is pretty average to the point he almost looks lost.

Where he excels is the PP. He has a one timer from the slot that is unreal so it should come to no surprise he scores a lot on the PP.

For a guy his size he has speed that kills and can be physical.

It's really too bad he never got the chance to develop at a more suitable pace. I wish I were more confident with his play at the NHL level. Hopefully he'll make the adjustments to compete at that level.
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Re: POLL: Trading Sprong for a winger.

Postby Hatrick on Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:30 pm

I have never been that highly of sprong, when other people last offseason wanted him on the team last year or on it permanently starting December I was pretty skeptical if he would make it on at all during the year unless there was injuries.
Having said that unless you are getting something really good in return I am not trading him. Similar to my opinion on kessel.
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Re: POLL: Trading Sprong for a winger.

Postby State College Penguin on Sat Jun 23, 2018 1:13 pm

Daniel wrote:
State College Penguin wrote:
Cow_Master66 wrote:I for one am not in favor of trading a young right-handed winger with 40+ goal potential and don't see why anyone else would be either. He's just what this team needs right now....Actually he's what most teams are looking for. There's only so many RWs with his skill set, so unless there's truth behind his attitude problem and/or no hope for him to improve his defense, I don't get the idea of moving him right now. This is coming from someone who's very much in the win-now mindset too.

Sprong/Kessel could certainly be considered the top 2 RW combos in the league by years end.



Potential is a word that gets coaches and GMs fired more than hired. There is a reason why he wasn't up here last year. Why people can't see this is beyond me. He is closer to a bust than an impact player here. He is what the team needs now? A guy with a lousy two way game?


He might be a bust, he might never be an impact player, but trading him now is trading low and will hurt the team overall. The team drafted the kid knowing defense was a weakness, started his ELC too soon, and now have to give a new contract or trade him. Total waste of time and money and very poor asset management.

It isn't Sprong's fault that this should be the 2nd year of his ELC and the Penguins burned his waiver status while rushing him for no reason whatsoever. They need to compensate for his defensive liabilities and hope he can improve as the year progresses.

This team has a terrible farm system, they have one of the oldest teams in the league, their cap situation is a mess, and they might trade the one player that can potentially help all those issues? Again, not suggesting he's a HOF player, or even an All Star, but I am thinking that he should be given more than the 26 NHL games (18 or which were wasted to blow his ELC/waiver) to determine his future with the Penguins.

Better than adding more age and cap space to an already old and expensive team.


Sprong gives you youth and a potential, not a given, to score goals. That is it. Again, there is a reason why some others, less talented, have bypassed him on their way to the NHL. There have been questions surrounding his work ethic .. his defense hasn't improved. This farm system flourishes with some, fails with others. The Pens failed the development of Despres, Pouliot and others. I see Sprong going that group. But lets not just blame this on the Pens.

Yes, this farm system sucks. It's frustrating to watch the draft and see others get prime talent,w hen Pittsburgh throws those picks away for this "all in win now mode". It's not like we haven't won two Cups recently. When Geno and Sid are ready to be done, this roster will look more like Ottawa than anything good. That is on them for not taking care of building a decent farm system. Which brings you back to Sprong. He is by far the best in the system, but he is seriously flawed. Tells you how bad of shape this system is in. There are many fans that think he is an automatic help. He isn't. People who have actually watched him play know this and that includes the brass in Pittsburgh.
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Re: POLL: Trading Sprong for a winger.

Postby Daniel on Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:01 pm

State College Penguin wrote:Sprong gives you youth and a potential, not a given, to score goals. That is it. Again, there is a reason why some others, less talented, have bypassed him on their way to the NHL. There have been questions surrounding his work ethic .. his defense hasn't improved. This farm system flourishes with some, fails with others. The Pens failed the development of Despres, Pouliot and others. I see Sprong going that group. But lets not just blame this on the Pens.


The reason I put the blame on the Pens is twofold. First, they rushed him and blew his ELC for 26 games of NHL experience. Second, his defense isn't up to par. Second is shared of course, is it coaching or the player? Probably a little of both. I think they should allow him to sink or swim in the first half of next season. Give him a good 40 games to show if he should be traded or if he can improve enough to warrant a longer look. Trading him now is just a waste and will make the Penguins older and slower. Trading him later might do the same thing, but in January they won't have a choice, today they do.

State College Penguin wrote:Yes, this farm system sucks. It's frustrating to watch the draft and see others get prime talent,w hen Pittsburgh throws those picks away for this "all in win now mode". It's not like we haven't won two Cups recently. When Geno and Sid are ready to be done, this roster will look more like Ottawa than anything good. That is on them for not taking care of building a decent farm system. Which brings you back to Sprong. He is by far the best in the system, but he is seriously flawed. Tells you how bad of shape this system is in. There are many fans that think he is an automatic help. He isn't. People who have actually watched him play know this and that includes the brass in Pittsburgh.


I do think that part of the reason the farm system sucks is because we saw a migration of a lot of talent over the past 3 years and keeping that kind of talent flow going is hard. Most of those players might not be All Stars, but teams need all kind of players to succsed. Better to bring up a guy like Rust than waste a trade for a guy like Morrow.

I agree the Pens could look like Ottawa when Sid and Geno are gone....the early 90s Ottawa. That's why they need to start trading guys like Kessel, Letang, Hagelin over the next year or so for top young players. While this won't keep the Pens out of a lottery pick or two, it might allow them to have a couple of bad seasons to retool rather than a complete 5 year overhaul. My thoughts are that if they do this, Guenztel and Murray can go through the transition and be on the new wave of Penguin contending teams. Otherwise, I think when Sid and Geno retire, you might as well trade everyone on the team and start over, circa early 2000s Penguins.
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Re: POLL: Trading Sprong for a winger.

Postby Cow_Master66 on Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:58 pm

State College Penguin wrote:
Daniel wrote:
State College Penguin wrote:
Cow_Master66 wrote:I for one am not in favor of trading a young right-handed winger with 40+ goal potential and don't see why anyone else would be either. He's just what this team needs right now....Actually he's what most teams are looking for. There's only so many RWs with his skill set, so unless there's truth behind his attitude problem and/or no hope for him to improve his defense, I don't get the idea of moving him right now. This is coming from someone who's very much in the win-now mindset too.

Sprong/Kessel could certainly be considered the top 2 RW combos in the league by years end.



Potential is a word that gets coaches and GMs fired more than hired. There is a reason why he wasn't up here last year. Why people can't see this is beyond me. He is closer to a bust than an impact player here. He is what the team needs now? A guy with a lousy two way game?


He might be a bust, he might never be an impact player, but trading him now is trading low and will hurt the team overall. The team drafted the kid knowing defense was a weakness, started his ELC too soon, and now have to give a new contract or trade him. Total waste of time and money and very poor asset management.

It isn't Sprong's fault that this should be the 2nd year of his ELC and the Penguins burned his waiver status while rushing him for no reason whatsoever. They need to compensate for his defensive liabilities and hope he can improve as the year progresses.

This team has a terrible farm system, they have one of the oldest teams in the league, their cap situation is a mess, and they might trade the one player that can potentially help all those issues? Again, not suggesting he's a HOF player, or even an All Star, but I am thinking that he should be given more than the 26 NHL games (18 or which were wasted to blow his ELC/waiver) to determine his future with the Penguins.

Better than adding more age and cap space to an already old and expensive team.


Sprong gives you youth and a potential, not a given, to score goals. That is it. Again, there is a reason why some others, less talented, have bypassed him on their way to the NHL. There have been questions surrounding his work ethic .. his defense hasn't improved. This farm system flourishes with some, fails with others. The Pens failed the development of Despres, Pouliot and others. I see Sprong going that group. But lets not just blame this on the Pens.

Yes, this farm system sucks. It's frustrating to watch the draft and see others get prime talent,w hen Pittsburgh throws those picks away for this "all in win now mode". It's not like we haven't won two Cups recently. When Geno and Sid are ready to be done, this roster will look more like Ottawa than anything good. That is on them for not taking care of building a decent farm system. Which brings you back to Sprong. He is by far the best in the system, but he is seriously flawed. Tells you how bad of shape this system is in. There are many fans that think he is an automatic help. He isn't. People who have actually watched him play know this and that includes the brass in Pittsburgh.


What do you mean by “throwing picks away”? Are you upset that we don’t have a first rounder this year because we traded it to improve our chances at a 3rd straight cup? This team has to be in a win now mode. Not directed at anyone in particular but can we please stop acting like draft picks in the late first/second are some sort of guarantee? The odds of any of the recent picks we traded being full rime NHLers is really low. Out of all of the the Kapanen deal is probably the one that will eventually sting but guess what, we won 2 cups so it won’t sting too bad....
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Re: POLL: Trading Sprong for a winger.

Postby Daniel on Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:32 pm

Cow_Master66 wrote:What do you mean by “throwing picks away”? Are you upset that we don’t have a first rounder this year because we traded it to improve our chances at a 3rd straight cup? This team has to be in a win now mode. Not directed at anyone in particular but can we please stop acting like draft picks in the late first/second are some sort of guarantee? The odds of any of the recent picks we traded being full rime NHLers is really low. Out of all of the the Kapanen deal is probably the one that will eventually sting but guess what, we won 2 cups so it won’t sting too bad....


I won't speak for State College, but I would say RS threw away picks:

From 2013 to 2014 the Pens gave up

2013 2nd and 2014 2nd for Doug Murray
2013 1st for Jarome Iginla (plus two prospects)
2013 conditional pick (6th or 7th) for Jussi Jokinen
2014 3rd for Lee Stempniak
2014 5th and 2015 3rd for Marcel Goc

Who knows what those picks would have been, but how much better would the farm system be with 7 extra prospects all about 21-23?

RS threw away a lot of picks for players that didn't even contribute as much as Sheary....who was gotten for free.
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Re: POLL: Trading Sprong for a winger.

Postby LimerickPensFan on Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:29 pm

Daniel wrote:
Cow_Master66 wrote:What do you mean by “throwing picks away”? Are you upset that we don’t have a first rounder this year because we traded it to improve our chances at a 3rd straight cup? This team has to be in a win now mode. Not directed at anyone in particular but can we please stop acting like draft picks in the late first/second are some sort of guarantee? The odds of any of the recent picks we traded being full rime NHLers is really low. Out of all of the the Kapanen deal is probably the one that will eventually sting but guess what, we won 2 cups so it won’t sting too bad....


I won't speak for State College, but I would say RS threw away picks:

From 2013 to 2014 the Pens gave up

2013 2nd and 2014 2nd for Doug Murray
2013 1st for Jarome Iginla (plus two prospects)
2013 conditional pick (6th or 7th) for Jussi Jokinen
2014 3rd for Lee Stempniak
2014 5th and 2015 3rd for Marcel Goc

Who knows what those picks would have been, but how much better would the farm system be with 7 extra prospects all about 21-23?

RS threw away a lot of picks for players that didn't even contribute as much as Sheary....who was gotten for free.

Most of those picks would have been lucky to play on the Nailers. The middle one baffles me. I though Jokinen played some pretty good hockey for us - certainly worth a 6th or 7th round pick. Iginla was certainly not a bad attempt. Had they played him on the appropriate side, he may have actually done some good.
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Re: POLL: Trading Sprong for a winger.

Postby Daniel on Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:00 pm

LimerickPensFan wrote:Most of those picks would have been lucky to play on the Nailers.


Not sure who the Pens would have taken, but of the actual draft picks, 2 have made the NHL, 3 were in the AHL last year, 1 in NCAA, and 1 in Europe (see below). 5 out of the 7 went further than your opinion.

Fact is, RS traded a bunch of future help for what turned out to be no immediate help at all. I would wager that the seasons would have turned out exactly the same, or even better, if RS hadn't made those trades and used random WBS players instead.

Notice that when the Penguins started to integrate some youth into the NHL team good things started to happen? Now don't get me wrong, I am not against traded draft picks or prospects. I am against wasting picks for Marcel Goc, Douglas Murray, Lee Stempniak, etc and having such a disconnect with a coach that Jarome Iginla looks like an average player.

I have no problems with the Kessel trade, the Brassard trade, and after further reflection, the Reaves trade as well. Sure the Pens gave up draft picks, but they actually improved the team. RS didn't improve the team, killed the prospect pool, and didn't develop anyone. JR has improved the team, added several UDFA to the prospect pool, and I think he'll get the depth that he wants.

1st - Morgan Klimchuk - AHL/Calgary
2nd - Tyler Bertuzzi - NHL
5th - Matej Paulovic (to Dallas) - Europe (that was the Jokinen pick, I have no problem if you want to remove Jokinen as a waste, I was just adding the last few years of RS and added him by mistake)

2nd - Noah Rod - AHL
3rd - Matt Iacopelli - AHL
5th - Miguel Fidler - NCAA
3rd - Samuel Montembeault - AHL
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Re: POLL: Trading Sprong for a winger.

Postby brwi on Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:20 pm

Sprong probably sees the complete lack of a two-way game in Kessel and develops some attitude when Pens harp on him to really improve his two-way game. If that's the case, he's got to realize that you have to put up some big production in the NHL first and then you can give a mediocre or less effort as far as two-way play goes.

Don't see much return value in trading him now and there isn't any option except to play Sprong for at least half the season and see exactly what you have.
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Re: POLL: Trading Sprong for a winger.

Postby Cow_Master66 on Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:00 pm

Daniel wrote:
Cow_Master66 wrote:What do you mean by “throwing picks away”? Are you upset that we don’t have a first rounder this year because we traded it to improve our chances at a 3rd straight cup? This team has to be in a win now mode. Not directed at anyone in particular but can we please stop acting like draft picks in the late first/second are some sort of guarantee? The odds of any of the recent picks we traded being full rime NHLers is really low. Out of all of the the Kapanen deal is probably the one that will eventually sting but guess what, we won 2 cups so it won’t sting too bad....


I won't speak for State College, but I would say RS threw away picks:

From 2013 to 2014 the Pens gave up

2013 2nd and 2014 2nd for Doug Murray
2013 1st for Jarome Iginla (plus two prospects)
2013 conditional pick (6th or 7th) for Jussi Jokinen
2014 3rd for Lee Stempniak
2014 5th and 2015 3rd for Marcel Goc

Who knows what those picks would have been, but how much better would the farm system be with 7 extra prospects all about 21-23?

RS threw away a lot of picks for players that didn't even contribute as much as Sheary....who was gotten for free.


Nothing in that list inspires any regret for me, and I highly doubt RS would take any of them back (maybe the Murray one?).... When you have a chance to go all the way you take it. Giving up picks outside of the top 15 is not as big of a deal as is being implied here. Picks round 4+ are almost worthless in the grand scheme of things. Yes there are some players to be found but has anyone ever heard a GM say he really “regretted trading that 6th rounder”....
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Junior 'A'
 
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Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 9:41 am

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