Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby stonewizard51 on Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:58 am

Has Big Rig been signed yet or is he still RFA ?

I haven't seen anything about it yet is why I'm asking.
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby KG on Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:30 am

stonewizard51 wrote:Has Big Rig been signed yet or is he still RFA ?

I haven't seen anything about it yet is why I'm asking.


Not as of yet....
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby penny lane on Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:24 am

http://www.dispatch.com/sports/20180703 ... ssion=true

Regarding Tortorella, I respect anyone who is loyal. During the dark days, many folks in hockey felt free to take shots at the pens all of the time.
That wears on a team and fans. So while I know he hates all things penguns, he probably makes for a loyal friend.
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:59 am

Nice breakdown of Johnson's playoff performance this year by Jesse:

https://theathletic.com/420317/2018/07/05/marshall-looking-for-what-the-penguins-saw-in-jack-johnson/

In a nutshell, his numbers weren't bad, and when they were, they weren't bad compared to the team. For the most part, Johnson just isn't involved in a lot of plays. He makes defensive plays, etc, but the action isn't flowing through him to generate offense most times. There wasn't a lot in the film Jesse watched that indicated "oh, this guy needs benched because he stinks."
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby Great58 on Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:33 am

FLPensFan wrote:Nice breakdown of Johnson's playoff performance this year by Jesse:

https://theathletic.com/420317/2018/07/05/marshall-looking-for-what-the-penguins-saw-in-jack-johnson/

In a nutshell, his numbers weren't bad, and when they were, they weren't bad compared to the team. For the most part, Johnson just isn't involved in a lot of plays. He makes defensive plays, etc, but the action isn't flowing through him to generate offense most times. There wasn't a lot in the film Jesse watched that indicated "oh, this guy needs benched because he stinks."

Jesse's comments made me think that Rutherford and Johnson talked about the reason for the benching, which allowed Rutherford to comment that he knew why Johnson had been benched.

The combination of Johnson having asked to be traded earlier in the season for contract reasons (and the resulting implication that he wouldn't be resigning with CBJ) and the desire to highlight Ian Cole in the lineup and court him to renew in Columbus are my two leading, intertwined, theories.
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby no name on Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:25 pm

Well if Torts is anything like Sully the benching cause he asked to be traded makes the most sense. Funny though, why would a coach want a player who at some point in their career asked to be traded. Torts got Cole and Sully got JJ.
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby Jim on Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:50 pm

no name wrote:Well if Torts is anything like Sully the benching cause he asked to be traded makes the most sense. Funny though, why would a coach want a player who at some point in their career asked to be traded. Torts got Cole and Sully got JJ.


Because it is not that coach's ego that that player bruised.
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby Daniel on Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:21 pm

no name wrote:Well if Torts is anything like Sully the benching cause he asked to be traded makes the most sense. Funny though, why would a coach want a player who at some point in their career asked to be traded. Torts got Cole and Sully got JJ.


To quote Chuck Noll, "f you're thinking about retiring, you've already retired". I look at a player requesting a trade in the same way, you're already out the door. Especially a pending UFA.

With a longer term contract, you might be able to work something out during the offseason, but Johnson was gone. Really, why waste a roster spot on someone who doesn't want to be there? Players request/demand a trade and either think there will be no consequences are really want to leave. Either way, they can go home until gone.
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby murphydump55 on Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:28 pm

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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby RentedMule66 on Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:16 pm

murphydump55 wrote:https://art19.com/shows/the-only-pittsburgh-sports-podcast/episodes/8b2a5f7e-82bf-4b3c-8b60-3cb50efe924f

These guys nail it.

We get it. It's been a second crappy off-season back to back. Nothing can be done at this point so lets at least hope for the best and root for the new Pens.
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby Daniel on Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:34 pm

RentedMule66 wrote:
murphydump55 wrote:https://art19.com/shows/the-only-pittsburgh-sports-podcast/episodes/8b2a5f7e-82bf-4b3c-8b60-3cb50efe924f

These guys nail it.

We get it. It's been a second crappy off-season back to back. Nothing can be done at this point so lets at least hope for the best and root for the new Pens.


Honestly, I don't think we can judge the offseason right now. I don't see a lot of problems at forward, though I do acknowledge we have some unknowns (ZAR, Blueger, Sprong). I think Johnson is key to the offseason and will determine how good/bad it was. Hopefully Sullivan is right and they found some traits that Gonchar can fix. If that's successful, then all of a sudden the defensive 6 is a huge asset. Depth has some unknowns, but Ruhwedel is a nice 7th and someone from WBS will probably step up as a solid 8th.

As for last offseason, it was bad in retrospect. I think the Sheahan trade is the one JR was talking about being delayed. Detroit had to sign the RFA (can't remember his name) before making the trade. JR also should have been more aggressive rather than waiting on Cullen, then trade for Sheahan when he did. All in all though, even with the horrible offseason the Pens really could have beaten the Caps and who knows what happens after that.
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby LimerickPensFan on Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:16 am

Daniel wrote:
RentedMule66 wrote:
murphydump55 wrote:https://art19.com/shows/the-only-pittsburgh-sports-podcast/episodes/8b2a5f7e-82bf-4b3c-8b60-3cb50efe924f

These guys nail it.

We get it. It's been a second crappy off-season back to back. Nothing can be done at this point so lets at least hope for the best and root for the new Pens.


Honestly, I don't think we can judge the offseason right now. I don't see a lot of problems at forward, though I do acknowledge we have some unknowns (ZAR, Blueger, Sprong). I think Johnson is key to the offseason and will determine how good/bad it was. Hopefully Sullivan is right and they found some traits that Gonchar can fix. If that's successful, then all of a sudden the defensive 6 is a huge asset. Depth has some unknowns, but Ruhwedel is a nice 7th and someone from WBS will probably step up as a solid 8th.

As for last offseason, it was bad in retrospect. I think the Sheahan trade is the one JR was talking about being delayed. Detroit had to sign the RFA (can't remember his name) before making the trade. JR also should have been more aggressive rather than waiting on Cullen, then trade for Sheahan when he did. All in all though, even with the horrible offseason the Pens really could have beaten the Caps and who knows what happens after that.

What did you expect from a cap-pegged team in the offseason after winning their second cup? Especially after the previous offseason where we lost the sum-total of Ben Lovejoy from a Stanley Cup winning team? There was nothing JR could have done to prevent losing Cullen. There was no way he was going to afford to keep Bonino or Kunitz. Getting Reaves was probably mandated to him from above. Honestly, I think he did the best he could have. Of course, on this board, you're not happy unless they're trading away all their good players for not-so-good player (but younger! always younger!).
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby Daniel on Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:48 am

LimerickPensFan wrote:
Daniel wrote:
RentedMule66 wrote:
murphydump55 wrote:https://art19.com/shows/the-only-pittsburgh-sports-podcast/episodes/8b2a5f7e-82bf-4b3c-8b60-3cb50efe924f

These guys nail it.

We get it. It's been a second crappy off-season back to back. Nothing can be done at this point so lets at least hope for the best and root for the new Pens.


Honestly, I don't think we can judge the offseason right now. I don't see a lot of problems at forward, though I do acknowledge we have some unknowns (ZAR, Blueger, Sprong). I think Johnson is key to the offseason and will determine how good/bad it was. Hopefully Sullivan is right and they found some traits that Gonchar can fix. If that's successful, then all of a sudden the defensive 6 is a huge asset. Depth has some unknowns, but Ruhwedel is a nice 7th and someone from WBS will probably step up as a solid 8th.

As for last offseason, it was bad in retrospect. I think the Sheahan trade is the one JR was talking about being delayed. Detroit had to sign the RFA (can't remember his name) before making the trade. JR also should have been more aggressive rather than waiting on Cullen, then trade for Sheahan when he did. All in all though, even with the horrible offseason the Pens really could have beaten the Caps and who knows what happens after that.

What did you expect from a cap-pegged team in the offseason after winning their second cup? Especially after the previous offseason where we lost the sum-total of Ben Lovejoy from a Stanley Cup winning team? There was nothing JR could have done to prevent losing Cullen. There was no way he was going to afford to keep Bonino or Kunitz. Getting Reaves was probably mandated to him from above. Honestly, I think he did the best he could have. Of course, on this board, you're not happy unless they're trading away all their good players for not-so-good player (but younger! always younger!).


No, there was nothing he could have done to keep Cullen, but he kept planning like he could without a contingency. Hence the comment that he could have been aggressive rather than waiting on Cullen. How many times did he say he could "make a trade today" for a 3C? Yet went into training camp without one? Did he lie or was he too passive waiting on Cullen?

Bonino was paid like a 2C and no way he was staying. No reason to keep Kunitz.

Just because he did the best he couldn't doesn't mean the offseason wasn't bad. Sometimes things are bad and nothing can be done to stop it, doesn't make it less bad.
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby Badamski9 on Sat Jul 07, 2018 2:31 am

RentedMule66 wrote:
murphydump55 wrote:https://art19.com/shows/the-only-pittsburgh-sports-podcast/episodes/8b2a5f7e-82bf-4b3c-8b60-3cb50efe924f

These guys nail it.

We get it. It's been a second crappy off-season back to back. Nothing can be done at this point so lets at least hope for the best and root for the new Pens.


There is nothing wrong with this off-season. They signed a very good, tough to play against, defenseman for cheap. They traded a worthless defenseman and a one dimensional forward, to free space. They solidified the center position. What the heck do you want them to do? The lines are set and there really isn’t much that can be done, given our tradeable assets and the cap space. This team is in as good of a position as it can be heading into the season. The grass isn’t always greener. The only player that would be a great get is Pacioretty, but unless JR can pull a miracle, that’s not going to happen.

P.S. Just don’t give up our 2019 1st rounder...
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby murphydump55 on Sat Jul 07, 2018 10:08 pm

Badamski9 wrote:
RentedMule66 wrote:
murphydump55 wrote:https://art19.com/shows/the-only-pittsburgh-sports-podcast/episodes/8b2a5f7e-82bf-4b3c-8b60-3cb50efe924f

These guys nail it.

We get it. It's been a second crappy off-season back to back. Nothing can be done at this point so lets at least hope for the best and root for the new Pens.


There is nothing wrong with this off-season. They signed a very good, tough to play against, defenseman for cheap. They traded a worthless defenseman and a one dimensional forward, to free space. They solidified the center position. What the heck do you want them to do? The lines are set and there really isn’t much that can be done, given our tradeable assets and the cap space. This team is in as good of a position as it can be heading into the season. The grass isn’t always greener. The only player that would be a great get is Pacioretty, but unless JR can pull a miracle, that’s not going to happen.

P.S. Just don’t give up our 2019 1st rounder...


Except they didn’t sign a very good defenseman. Eye test and numbers show it. Those that say he’s good are going by his name and clearly haven’t watched him play over the last oh, 13 years.

I hope they have a magical power to fix him because 15+ coaches in the past haven’t been able to.
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby Badamski9 on Sat Jul 07, 2018 10:52 pm

murphydump55 wrote:
Badamski9 wrote:
RentedMule66 wrote:
murphydump55 wrote:https://art19.com/shows/the-only-pittsburgh-sports-podcast/episodes/8b2a5f7e-82bf-4b3c-8b60-3cb50efe924f

These guys nail it.

We get it. It's been a second crappy off-season back to back. Nothing can be done at this point so lets at least hope for the best and root for the new Pens.


There is nothing wrong with this off-season. They signed a very good, tough to play against, defenseman for cheap. They traded a worthless defenseman and a one dimensional forward, to free space. They solidified the center position. What the heck do you want them to do? The lines are set and there really isn’t much that can be done, given our tradeable assets and the cap space. This team is in as good of a position as it can be heading into the season. The grass isn’t always greener. The only player that would be a great get is Pacioretty, but unless JR can pull a miracle, that’s not going to happen.

P.S. Just don’t give up our 2019 1st rounder...


Except they didn’t sign a very good defenseman. Eye test and numbers show it. Those that say he’s good are going by his name and clearly haven’t watched him play over the last oh, 13 years.

I hope they have a magical power to fix him because 15+ coaches in the past haven’t been able to.


Passed the Sullivan, Gonchar and JR eye test. Good enough for me.
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby thehockeyguru on Sat Jul 07, 2018 10:55 pm

Yeah so did Hunwick.....
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby Badamski9 on Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:00 pm

Guess we’ll see, Johnson is much better than hunwick and always was. He will be good here.
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby thehockeyguru on Sun Jul 08, 2018 9:53 am

Badamski9 wrote:Guess we’ll see, Johnson is much better than hunwick and always was. He will be good here.


Actually if you compare their body of work it is eerily similar with a slight edge to Hunwick.
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby Owchar76 on Sun Jul 08, 2018 10:08 am

Badamski9 wrote:Guess we’ll see, Johnson is much better than hunwick and always was. He will be good here.


Why will he be good here? Because he's had 12 bad seasons out of 13? Because he fails the eye test and also fails the numbers test? Because he makes horrible reads? Because he gets turned around constantly by fast forwards? Because he has a tendency to get lost in the defensive zone?

GMJR and Sullivan aren't without their mistakes, they aren't perfect. Heck Hunwick was horrible, Perron wasn't great, McKegg was awful, Rowney was terrible, the benching of Cole, etc.

Some on here posted his "good" advanced stats. That good advanced stat? He was a top passing dman. I believe it was Jesse Marshall that spoke about this saying that it seemed like most passes Johnson completed were 10 foot passes. Their forwards came down extremely deep.

If you had some substance behind your argument maybe I'd agree or take it seriously, but to say he's better than Hunwick and will be good here? Wow, that's deep thinking.
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby Daniel on Sun Jul 08, 2018 10:27 am

Owchar76 wrote:
Badamski9 wrote:Guess we’ll see, Johnson is much better than hunwick and always was. He will be good here.


Why will he be good here? Because he's had 12 bad seasons out of 13? Because he fails the eye test and also fails the numbers test? Because he makes horrible reads? Because he gets turned around constantly by fast forwards? Because he has a tendency to get lost in the defensive zone?

GMJR and Sullivan aren't without their mistakes, they aren't perfect. Heck Hunwick was horrible, Perron wasn't great, McKegg was awful, Rowney was terrible, the benching of Cole, etc.

Some on here posted his "good" advanced stats. That good advanced stat? He was a top passing dman. I believe it was Jesse Marshall that spoke about this saying that it seemed like most passes Johnson completed were 10 foot passes. Their forwards came down extremely deep.

If you had some substance behind your argument maybe I'd agree or take it seriously, but to say he's better than Hunwick and will be good here? Wow, that's deep thinking.


All those arguments are great, but they all discount one thing........GONCHAR!!! :scared: :fist:

Seriously, I hope they're right about seeing something in his game they can fix. Hopefully most of Johnson's issues are his draft status, meaning that people think if you're a number 3 pick that you have to play top minutes whether you can or not. Or that it was the money issues and everything in his life but his talent. Because if his issues are talent only, we're in a for a long 5 years.
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby Owchar76 on Sun Jul 08, 2018 10:39 am

thehockeyguru wrote:
Badamski9 wrote:Guess we’ll see, Johnson is much better than hunwick and always was. He will be good here.


Actually if you compare their body of work it is eerily similar with a slight edge to Hunwick.


I decided to look this up:

Career Corsi 5v5

Hunwick - 49.2
Johnson - 47.1

On Ice Goals For/60

Hunwick - 2.2
Johnson - 2.1

On Ice Goals Against/60

Hunwick - 2.3
Johnson - 2.6

Plus/Minus over career - both entered the league in 2007

Hunwick - -12
Johnson - -109!!!

Corsi For relative to teammates

Hunwick - -2.6
Johnson - -4.3

Points per 60 minutes and primary points per 60 minutes

Hunwick - 0.63, 0.41
Johnson - 0.58, 0.34

Goals for %

Hunwick - 49.23
Johnson - 45.75

Expected Goals For %

Hunwick - 48.74
Johnson - 47.4

Relative XGF%

Hunwick - -1.7
Johnson - -3.88

Well Hunwick hasn't been ugly to the eye test his whole career (like he was here last year), he's had some good seasons where he was a plus possession player and even when he wasn't a positive possession player, he was still good relative to his teammates. The same can't be said for Johnson. He's had ONE season where he wasn't below 50% possession (he was actually 50% on the nose). The difference with Johnson is that he wasn't very good relative to his teammates. Watching Johnson you'd also see a lot of the stuff that Hunwick went through last year, except it's happened throughout his whole career.

Anyway, the numbers above do show that Hunwick does have the slight edge believe it or not. I will say that Johnson has started more shifts in the defensive zone.

Take a chance on Johnson? Sure. Sign him to a 5 year deal? Not sure I like that. Sure you can say Anaheim was in the running for him and he left more money to sign here. Keep in mind that Anaheim just signed Rowney to a 3 year deal over a million per year, as well as Sustr who hasn't been great for Tampa, and Luke Schenn too. Those are some bad additions.
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby thehockeyguru on Sun Jul 08, 2018 10:55 am

Owchar76 wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
Badamski9 wrote:Guess we’ll see, Johnson is much better than hunwick and always was. He will be good here.


Actually if you compare their body of work it is eerily similar with a slight edge to Hunwick.


I decided to look this up:

Career Corsi 5v5

Hunwick - 49.2
Johnson - 47.1

On Ice Goals For/60

Hunwick - 2.2
Johnson - 2.1

On Ice Goals Against/60

Hunwick - 2.3
Johnson - 2.6

Plus/Minus over career - both entered the league in 2007

Hunwick - -12
Johnson - -109!!!

Corsi For relative to teammates

Hunwick - -2.6
Johnson - -4.3

Points per 60 minutes and primary points per 60 minutes

Hunwick - 0.63, 0.41
Johnson - 0.58, 0.34

Goals for %

Hunwick - 49.23
Johnson - 45.75

Expected Goals For %

Hunwick - 48.74
Johnson - 47.4

Relative XGF%

Hunwick - -1.7
Johnson - -3.88

Well Hunwick hasn't been ugly to the eye test his whole career (like he was here last year), he's had some good seasons where he was a plus possession player and even when he wasn't a positive possession player, he was still good relative to his teammates. The same can't be said for Johnson. He's had ONE season where he wasn't below 50% possession (he was actually 50% on the nose). The difference with Johnson is that he wasn't very good relative to his teammates. Watching Johnson you'd also see a lot of the stuff that Hunwick went through last year, except it's happened throughout his whole career.

Anyway, the numbers above do show that Hunwick does have the slight edge believe it or not. I will say that Johnson has started more shifts in the defensive zone.

Take a chance on Johnson? Sure. Sign him to a 5 year deal? Not sure I like that. Sure you can say Anaheim was in the running for him and he left more money to sign here. Keep in mind that Anaheim just signed Rowney to a 3 year deal over a million per year, as well as Sustr who hasn't been great for Tampa, and Luke Schenn too. Those are some bad additions.


Kudos for throwing the numbers out there. When GMJR moved Hunwick and Sheary I was expecting something bold, not JJ and Cullen. If you would have told me those were the moves I wouldn't have done it.
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby Hatrick on Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:39 am

Badamski9 wrote:
RentedMule66 wrote:
murphydump55 wrote:https://art19.com/shows/the-only-pittsburgh-sports-podcast/episodes/8b2a5f7e-82bf-4b3c-8b60-3cb50efe924f

These guys nail it.

We get it. It's been a second crappy off-season back to back. Nothing can be done at this point so lets at least hope for the best and root for the new Pens.


There is nothing wrong with this off-season. They signed a very good, tough to play against, defenseman for cheap. They traded a worthless defenseman and a one dimensional forward, to free space. They solidified the center position. What the heck do you want them to do? The lines are set and there really isn’t much that can be done, given our tradeable assets and the cap space. This team is in as good of a position as it can be heading into the season. The grass isn’t always greener. The only player that would be a great get is Pacioretty, but unless JR can pull a miracle, that’s not going to happen.

P.S. Just don’t give up our 2019 1st rounder...

there is plenty wrong with this offseason,
1. overpaying rust
2. not getting enough in the sheary and hunwick trade- as you said the main thing back was space which is sometimes valuable but should have gotten better return.
3. then blowing that space on Johnson, its not "for cheap" when its a million MORE than hunwick made, and for 5 years. I have no problem with long term if it means the pens get a good deal on AAV but they didn't. So the cap savings were wasted in two separate deals.

I do agree they added even more center depth by adding Cullen(and resigning Sheahan for a reasonable deal) which also helps the left wing spot. I think it also helps their PK by having a second center available to do that without forcing brassard to kill penalties(Cullen and Sheahan have been better at faceoffs than brassard).
I was of the opinion that the penguins didn't need to do a lot this offseason, add some depth most likely through UFA market, resign the RFA guys we had to medium term deals close to their prior salary(Sheahan and Oleksiak), and when the right deal came along unload some overpaid guys who were not the best of performers(sheary and hunwick being the notable ones in that category). They did add depth(Cullen and Johnson) but to do so they decided to vastly overpay Johnson. They did resign Sheahan(to an acceptable deal) and are gonna have to go to arbitration with Oleksiak. To sign Johnson they got rid of the Johnson they already had (hunwick) for a bag of beans and gave away sheary for much less than he is actually worth. So while they met all the conditions basically they did so in the worst way possible(overpaying, not getting enough in return, picking the wrong pieces). That is the problem with the offseason.
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Re: Pens to sign Jack Johnson for...

Postby Badamski9 on Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:02 pm

I guess I just disagree with all negative Jonhson comments. I see all the advanced stats posted on here, but I’m looking at his talent, skating ability and expecting the issues he’s experienced will be corrected by Gonch and the rest of the staff.

Tortorella is not a tactical coach, so I’m sure he wasn’t given much guidance for improving his deficiencies.

Paying a top 4 defenseman $3.25 million is cheap. Again, I expect him to be successful here, due to his skating, nasty edge and overall talent.
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