Memory Lane

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Memory Lane

Postby Skatingpen on Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:42 pm

https://nhl.nbcsports.com/2018/07/11/ph ... obody-won/

I remember this like yesterday........ yikes
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Re: Memory Lane

Postby Tonythepenguin on Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:06 pm

I remember like it was yesterday as well.. but I do my best everyday to block this from my memory, I consider it a betrayal and I will never forgive jagr for this.
Also because what we got back was a pitiful disgrace
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Re: Memory Lane

Postby longtimefan on Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:30 pm

Two seasons with the Caps, and Jagr was traded straight up to the Rangers for Anson Carter. An epic fail for both organizations. But, like the article points out, it led to both being terrible enough to draft Crosby, Ovechkin, and Malkin.
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Re: Memory Lane

Postby Daniel on Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:37 pm

Tonythepenguin wrote:I remember like it was yesterday as well.. but I do my best everyday to block this from my memory, I consider it a betrayal and I will never forgive jagr for this.
Also because what we got back was a pitiful disgrace


What the Pens got back was a new arena and 3 Stanley Cups, who gives a crap about the players. If they were any good, the team wouldn't be where it is today.
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Re: Memory Lane

Postby Tonythepenguin on Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:41 pm

Daniel wrote:
Tonythepenguin wrote:I remember like it was yesterday as well.. but I do my best everyday to block this from my memory, I consider it a betrayal and I will never forgive jagr for this.
Also because what we got back was a pitiful disgrace


What the Pens got back was a new arena and 3 Stanley Cups, who gives a crap about the players. If they were any good, the team wouldn't be where it is today.

True you're absolutely right , but i was mostly referring to the players at the time
Last edited by Tonythepenguin on Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Memory Lane

Postby Daniel on Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:42 pm

longtimefan wrote:Two seasons with the Caps, and Jagr was traded straight up to the Rangers for Anson Carter. An epic fail for both organizations. But, like the article points out, it led to both being terrible enough to draft Crosby, Ovechkin, and Malkin.


Not to mention Fleury, Whitney, Staal, Letang, Goligoski, and the players brought back with trades.
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Re: Memory Lane

Postby FLPensFan on Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:49 pm

Been talking about this trade a lot the last few weeks. It's amazing how TERRIBLE the talent evaluators/scouts from BOTH Pittsburgh and Washington were. In 1999, the Capitals had a 1st round pick (Beech), and 4 2nd round picks. Two of those 2nd round picks were Sivek and Lupashuk. Washington had 10 picks in 1999, and Kris Beech ended up being the most successful NHL player out of the bunch. Washington actually had a multiple terrible drafts.....where either very few players made it to the NHL, or the 1 or 2 players who made it didn't even play 200 games at the NHL level. Not hitting on a single draft pick in a draft year is pretty awful.

So, Beech, Sivek, and Lupashuk were highly rated prospects at the time of the trade. But obviously, two teams, PIT and WSH, totally botched their evaluation of those players.
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Re: Memory Lane

Postby Tonythepenguin on Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:51 pm

Didnt Beech come from the Calgary hitmen??
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Re: Memory Lane

Postby Daniel on Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:54 pm

Tonythepenguin wrote:
Daniel wrote:
Tonythepenguin wrote:I remember like it was yesterday as well.. but I do my best everyday to block this from my memory, I consider it a betrayal and I will never forgive jagr for this.
Also because what we got back was a pitiful disgrace


What the Pens got back was a new arena and 3 Stanley Cups, who gives a crap about the players. If they were any good, the team wouldn't be where it is today.

True you're absolutely right , but i was mostly referring to the players at the time


Oh, the players were vastly overrated, but my point was that if the Pens got fair market value for Jagr they don't become the powerhouse that they are.

Not saying you're wrong, just pointing out that it was a good trade for the Pens even if the return wasn't in the initial transaction.

Frankly, those 3 players really never got a chance with the Penguins. The first year for Beech wasn't all that bad (yes, I had to look it up), but they lessened his minutes and shuffled him back and forth between NHL/WBS after that. Lupaschuk played 3 NHL games and did pretty well in WBS. Sivek didn't get much of a chance either.

Not making excuses for the players, but the Pens didn't give young players as much of a chance as we're seeing today. Wonder what would have happened if they gave them the same chance that Rust, Sheary, Guentzel, etc are getting now. Don't know if it would have made a difference, but it wasn't like the three would have kept them out of the playoffs. So why not have them play a bigger role, especially for what they gave up to get them?

That being said, I wouldn't change anythng.
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Re: Memory Lane

Postby longtimefan on Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:45 pm

FLPensFan wrote:Been talking about this trade a lot the last few weeks. It's amazing how TERRIBLE the talent evaluators/scouts from BOTH Pittsburgh and Washington were. In 1999, the Capitals had a 1st round pick (Beech), and 4 2nd round picks. Two of those 2nd round picks were Sivek and Lupashuk. Washington had 10 picks in 1999, and Kris Beech ended up being the most successful NHL player out of the bunch. Washington actually had a multiple terrible drafts.....where either very few players made it to the NHL, or the 1 or 2 players who made it didn't even play 200 games at the NHL level. Not hitting on a single draft pick in a draft year is pretty awful.

So, Beech, Sivek, and Lupashuk were highly rated prospects at the time of the trade. But obviously, two teams, PIT and WSH, totally botched their evaluation of those players.


In fairness to the Caps, you can only draft what's available. As mentioned in the article, the 1999 entry draft was terrible. Beech went 6th, Sivek 28th, and Lupaschuk 34th. Look at what was available though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_NHL_Entry_Draft

Everybody knew the Pens needed cash, and Jagr had to be moved. There weren't too many teams capable of paying Jagr at the time. I remember watching a very candid interview with Patrick not long aafter the deal. Glen Sather had been negotiating with the Pens for quite a while. Their off er included Pavel Brendl as the prize in place of Beech, and a couple of vets like Harry York. Sather thought he was the only legitimate offer, but Patrick told him he had received an offer he liked better, and asked Sather to up his offer. Sather thought he was bluffing. So the Pens ended up with 3 of the top 34 picks in a draft that started with Patrick Stefan.

An aside, Craig Patrick never traded for a 1st round pick, and never traded one away. It just seems so contrary to today's thinking. Today, that deal would have included several high picks.

Sivek looked the part, and showed a few brief flashes, but he left the organization during the lockout in '04-'05 to play in the Czech Republic, and played their the rest of his career. Lupaschuk was the least heralded, a strong offensive defenseman who left doubts that he'd ever play adequate enough defense to stick. He didn't.
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Re: Memory Lane

Postby Hatrick on Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:52 am

longtimefan wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Been talking about this trade a lot the last few weeks. It's amazing how TERRIBLE the talent evaluators/scouts from BOTH Pittsburgh and Washington were. In 1999, the Capitals had a 1st round pick (Beech), and 4 2nd round picks. Two of those 2nd round picks were Sivek and Lupashuk. Washington had 10 picks in 1999, and Kris Beech ended up being the most successful NHL player out of the bunch. Washington actually had a multiple terrible drafts.....where either very few players made it to the NHL, or the 1 or 2 players who made it didn't even play 200 games at the NHL level. Not hitting on a single draft pick in a draft year is pretty awful.

So, Beech, Sivek, and Lupashuk were highly rated prospects at the time of the trade. But obviously, two teams, PIT and WSH, totally botched their evaluation of those players.


In fairness to the Caps, you can only draft what's available. As mentioned in the article, the 1999 entry draft was terrible. Beech went 6th, Sivek 28th, and Lupaschuk 34th. Look at what was available though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_NHL_Entry_Draft

Everybody knew the Pens needed cash, and Jagr had to be moved. There weren't too many teams capable of paying Jagr at the time. I remember watching a very candid interview with Patrick not long aafter the deal. Glen Sather had been negotiating with the Pens for quite a while. Their off er included Pavel Brendl as the prize in place of Beech, and a couple of vets like Harry York. Sather thought he was the only legitimate offer, but Patrick told him he had received an offer he liked better, and asked Sather to up his offer. Sather thought he was bluffing. So the Pens ended up with 3 of the top 34 picks in a draft that started with Patrick Stefan.

An aside, Craig Patrick never traded for a 1st round pick, and never traded one away. It just seems so contrary to today's thinking. Today, that deal would have included several high picks.

Sivek looked the part, and showed a few brief flashes, but he left the organization during the lockout in '04-'05 to play in the Czech Republic, and played their the rest of his career. Lupaschuk was the least heralded, a strong offensive defenseman who left doubts that he'd ever play adequate enough defense to stick. He didn't.

That makes me think about something interesting; not sure about how the rules were set up at the time, but imagine if instead of that return the pens got something that included first round pick(s) several years after the deal, in which one of due to the lottery would turn into the top pick in the draft. The penguins could have ended up with the 1 and 2 picks one year and the number one overall the following year. (as long as the changes in trade return wouldn't change final records the next few seasons)
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Re: Memory Lane

Postby Jim on Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:33 am

longtimefan wrote:Two seasons with the Caps, and Jagr was traded straight up to the Rangers for Anson Carter. An epic fail for both organizations. But, like the article points out, it led to both being terrible enough to draft Crosby, Ovechkin, and Malkin.


It wasn't just a straight up trade for Carter. The Capitals also paid $20M of Jagr's salary over the remaining 5 years of his contract. $4M a year just to send him away.

Also, 44 days later, six weeks... Carter was traded to LA for an AHLer who's NHL career is short of 20 games total (all in LA).
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Re: Memory Lane

Postby no name on Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:44 am

It was widely known that Beech Lupi and Meathead were all not living up to their potential in Wash. The deal was about Jagr and the 5m dollars we got. Same with the Kovalev trade. It had nothing to do with players we got but the return of 5m dollar. We were trying to get out of debt. Of course we had to get something back as in players and at the time taking on any players back with salary was not going to help the books. Players making league min was what we wanted. Patrick was told to gut the team get back the cash to keep the team afloat and pay the bare minimum in salary. It had to be done from a bankruptcy standpoint moving forward.

Nicely how it worked out. Still got the Pens and a championship team at that.

In my youth I didn't understand it, now as an adult I see it had to be done.
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Re: Memory Lane

Postby Badger Bob on Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:29 am

Every time I think of that trade I feel like I'm dying alive.
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Re: Memory Lane

Postby KG on Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:35 am

Kris Beech...the next Ron Francis...so said CP :) gasp...
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Re: Memory Lane

Postby penny lane on Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:00 am



Beginning of the bursting into flames ... dark period for the pens.
Love Harry Potter 8-)
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Re: Memory Lane

Postby Jim on Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:48 pm

KG wrote:Kris Beech...the next Ron Francis...so said CP :) gasp...


Technically, that comment originally came from Head Scout Greg Malone.
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Re: Memory Lane

Postby ville5 on Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:24 pm

KG wrote:Kris Beech...the next Ron Francis...so said CP :) gasp...

He wasn't far off in his assessment. Beech only had 1731 less points.
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Re: Memory Lane

Postby Badger Bob on Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:00 pm

Kris Beech also had Sonni Abatta. So he had that going for him, which was nice. Ron could not make that claim.......... that I know of anyhow.
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Re: Memory Lane

Postby Cow_Master66 on Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:05 pm

2 things come to mind for me....

#1) The 4OT game was to this day the most intense hockey game I remember. It wasn't your typical long game where everyone was tired and could barely skate and played mostly in the neutral zone. I remember the entire OT being a constant wave of stress with tons of posts being hit and tons of chances both ways. I was in college and extremely lit so I may be way off :pop:

#2) I really liked Sivek and thought he was ready to break out, but he completely vanished. The details are foggy now but wasn't he going home for a "family issue" and just dropped off the face of the Earth? It was like he just disappeared....Mob hit? :scared:
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Re: Memory Lane

Postby Badger Bob on Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:44 pm

Wasn't Michal Sivek Archie Bunker's son-in-law on All In The Family?
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