Training camp (finally!)

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Re: Training camp (finally!)

Postby Penspal on Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:58 am

What's that smell, is Trader Jim waving around some interesting players?

I have to agree, it has been a while since the Pens started a season with so few holes to fill as this year.

When your biggest issue is how to fit in your 21 yr old (not quite ready) goal scoring stud, you've really got it made.
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Re: Training camp (finally!)

Postby Daniel on Thu Sep 27, 2018 12:15 pm

Penspal wrote:When your biggest issue is how to fit in your 21 yr old (not quite ready) goal scoring stud, you've really got it made.


Where to put Sprong and who your 7th and 8th defensemen are ;)

I can't remember a Penguins team this deep from top to bottom.
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Re: Training camp (finally!)

Postby LimerickPensFan on Thu Sep 27, 2018 12:20 pm

Remember the late summer when everyone was afraid of the moves made during the offseason?

:scared:
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Re: Training camp (finally!)

Postby Puck-Lurker on Thu Sep 27, 2018 1:00 pm

LimerickPensFan wrote:Remember the late summer when everyone was afraid of the moves made during the offseason?

:scared:

This year's Greg McKegg and Carter Rowney are not on the opening night roster.

Instead we have Brassard and Cullen. One goes down we will still have Sheahan. So our 3C and 4C from last year are pretty much what we have as the 6C and 7C. Yes.

We have 3 pairs set and ready to go. A cheap 7-8 L/R pair behind that.

Worries? Hmmm... Everyone reaching their level
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Re: Training camp (finally!)

Postby Hatrick on Thu Sep 27, 2018 1:57 pm

Daniel wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
DelPen wrote:So waiver exempt players left are Jarry, Riikola and ZAR that are good?

I think all three are better than others still in camp but seems like an easy call to send them down and not risk some other players on waivers yet. There’s still Trotman and Dea too and Grant whenever Sheahan is off of IR.

Jarry and Riikola deserve to stay, however, I think both are better served going to WBS where they can play every day until an NHL roster injury occurs.
Aston-Reese, to me, should make the roster no matter his waiver status.
Dea and Trotman should both be waived and returned to WBS.

I'm not sold on Grant. Quite honestly, other than his size, I didn't see the need for signing him after Cullen was signed and with Blueger reportedly deserving of an NHL spot already. I know why it happens (because annual playoff coaches are often afraid of putting their faith in too many young players over vets), but, I would rather see Bluger up here as well. Crosby, Malkin, Brassard, Sheahan, Cullen, Blueger, Dea was enough depth without adding Grant, not to mention both Simon, DiPauli, and Johnson were all centers originally who have been shifted to wing.

In Blueger's case, he just turned 24 years old, had a breakout year in the AHL, had his GM lauding him all summer.....and he is still sitting in the minors. I will be intrigued to see if he gets moved in a deal (although, he won't have a ton of value) or asks to not be retained next year. The Penguins took two steps forward by dumping guys like Rowney and Kuhnhackl, but then brought in Grant and Hayes types, with Grant possibly grabbing an NHL spot. There is a delicate balance between trusting your young players and having too many in the lineup, and the Penguins tend to lean a little too much on vets.


I view Blueger like Jarry or Riikola in that they're best suited for WBS but would be called up as long term replacements for the starter. Blueger seems to just be a late bloomer and will likely be as high as 3C in 2019-20. No way the team signs Brassard and they may or may not sign Sheahan.

I think Grant is like DeSmith or Ruhwedel in that he's best suited for healthy scratch or 1-2 game replacement for minor injuries.

while im not sure if blueger can step into 3c role next season(I think they might sign somebody else for that and have blueger as the the fourth line center) I agree with the concept of him being better for him(and jarry and rikola) to be playing everyday in WBS rather than just watching up here, with all being better options if a replacement is needed for longer term.
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Re: Training camp (finally!)

Postby Pruezy11881 on Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:44 pm

Sprong not in the line-up tomorrow night for the final preseason game...

Good or bad? Discuss.
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Re: Training camp (finally!)

Postby Great58 on Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:52 pm

Pruezy11881 wrote:Sprong not in the line-up tomorrow night for the final preseason game...

Good or bad? Discuss.

Lower body (abdominal) injury, day to day.
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Re: Training camp (finally!)

Postby stonewizard51 on Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:28 pm

Great58 wrote:
Pruezy11881 wrote:Sprong not in the line-up tomorrow night for the final preseason game...

Good or bad? Discuss.

Lower body (abdominal) injury, day to day.

And so it begins
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Re: Training camp (finally!)

Postby Daniel on Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:05 pm

Hatrick wrote:while im not sure if blueger can step into 3c role next season(I think they might sign somebody else for that and have blueger as the the fourth line center) I agree with the concept of him being better for him(and jarry and rikola) to be playing everyday in WBS rather than just watching up here, with all being better options if a replacement is needed for longer term.


While he won't be as good as Brassard, I think he'd be as good as Sheahan and Bonino. If Sprong reaches his potential, I think a 3rd line of him, Blueger/Rust (or ZAR) would be a nice 3rd line. This year, I can see Brassard carrying the line for scoring, then Sprong in 2019-20. Of course if neither, or just one, doesn't pan out we'll see signings, but I can see a very young 3rd line in 2019-20.
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Re: Training camp (finally!)

Postby FLPensFan on Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:55 am

I guess we should all get used to Dominik Simon. I had heard this before earlier in camp, but from DK's Insider piece today, he commented that there probably has never been a bigger divide between fan perception and team perception of a player than Simon. Crosby, Letang, and Murray were all raving about his hands and ability earlier in camp. Brassard apparently told DK yesterday that Simon was "one of the most effective linemates I have ever had."

Other odds and ends were that apparently, Jimmy Hayes showed up to camp out of shape, which was why he was an early camp cut.

Says Riikola is almost 100% going to the minors. The Pens like their top 6, they like Ruhwedel, and, most importantly, they want Riikola to play, not sit in the press box.

Finally, Cody Tucker says don't hold your breath waiting for the Penguins 3rd jersey. It isn't coming soon....not until the season starts. Main reason is, they aren't ready with stock of the new jerseys to sell. Tucker asked if the new jersey would be blue, and the source didn't give a yes or no.
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Re: Training camp (finally!)

Postby stonewizard51 on Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:21 am

Oh Lord please not blue.
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Re: Training camp (finally!)

Postby RisslingsMissingTeeth on Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:23 am

The team, as built now, could win the cup no doubt. The team, as built now, is almost the exact team that could not win the cup last year. Replace a well rounded firecracker like Sheary with a no-skill Simon and add Cullen and essentially you have a net-net. Going to be a fun season and we should be very good.
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Re: Training camp (finally!)

Postby FLPensFan on Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:22 am

New Jersey has claimed JS Dea on waivers.....
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Re: Training camp (finally!)

Postby KG on Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:38 am

FLPensFan wrote:New Jersey has claimed JS Dea on waivers.....


Shero!
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Re: Training camp (finally!)

Postby Puck-Lurker on Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:46 am

FLPensFan wrote:New Jersey has claimed JS Dea on waivers.....

Power to him.

With the Pens he was like 8th on the depth chart. And that's not taking into account Guentzel or Simon moving off the wing to center ice.

Good fortune to Dea, there wasn't much for him here.
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Re: Training camp (finally!)

Postby Penspal on Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:55 am

Puck-Lurker wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:New Jersey has claimed JS Dea on waivers.....

Power to him.

With the Pens he was like 8th on the depth chart. And that's not taking into account Guentzel or Simon moving off the wing to center ice.

Good fortune to Dea, there wasn't much for him here.


Lol, Shero has been picking off the Pens scrap heap since he left.

JSD looked better than ever in his pre-season action, but that's not saying its a huge loss, just a loss. Happy for him, I suspect he'll get quite a bit of NHL action this season.
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Re: Training camp (finally!)

Postby Great58 on Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:00 pm

RisslingsMissingTeeth wrote:The team, as built now, could win the cup no doubt. The team, as built now, is almost the exact team that could not win the cup last year. Replace a well rounded firecracker like Sheary with a no-skill Simon and add Cullen and essentially you have a net-net. Going to be a fun season and we should be very good.

If that team had a reasonably healthy Malkin, Kessel, Hagelin, and Brassard along with a pre-injury version of Letang and a version of Murray that we were used to seeing, they would have beaten the Capitals. I still don't think they'd have had enough in the tank to beat the Bolts, but it wouldn't have been for a lack of talent. Now, injuries are part of the game, but when looking at lineup*, I don't see anything that suggests this team can't make it to the Eastern Conference Final.

*there's no guarantee that Letang won't struggle again, but there is some reason to think he won't be THAT bad again
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Re: Training camp (finally!)

Postby Jim on Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:24 pm

Only the second guy to be plucked off of waivers this preseason.
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Re: Training camp (finally!)

Postby largegarlic on Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:56 pm

Great58 wrote:
RisslingsMissingTeeth wrote:The team, as built now, could win the cup no doubt. The team, as built now, is almost the exact team that could not win the cup last year. Replace a well rounded firecracker like Sheary with a no-skill Simon and add Cullen and essentially you have a net-net. Going to be a fun season and we should be very good.

If that team had a reasonably healthy Malkin, Kessel, Hagelin, and Brassard along with a pre-injury version of Letang and a version of Murray that we were used to seeing, they would have beaten the Capitals. I still don't think they'd have had enough in the tank to beat the Bolts, but it wouldn't have been for a lack of talent. Now, injuries are part of the game, but when looking at lineup*, I don't see anything that suggests this team can't make it to the Eastern Conference Final.

*there's no guarantee that Letang won't struggle again, but there is some reason to think he won't be THAT bad again


That's what I think too. The difference in the Caps series was that Holtby outplayed Murray, Carlson outplayed Letang, and the Caps got more secondary scoring than the Pens. If Letang, Murray, Brassard, and Kessel play at their normal levels, the Pens win that series.
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Re: Training camp (finally!)

Postby largegarlic on Fri Sep 28, 2018 2:00 pm

I don't want to place too much weight on a preseason performance against Buffalo, but I'll stick for Simon again a little bit. That 3rd line looked very good Wednesday, and he was a key part of that. I went into the arena a Simon skeptic, hoping to see Aston-Reese in that role, but Simon looked good, sharper in his skating, puck handling, and decision making compared to last year. Of course, we still have to see if that carries over when the games get real, but I think he's earned a shot in the top-9 based on preseason.
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Re: Training camp (finally!)

Postby Daniel on Fri Sep 28, 2018 2:28 pm

largegarlic wrote:I don't want to place too much weight on a preseason performance against Buffalo, but I'll stick for Simon again a little bit. That 3rd line looked very good Wednesday, and he was a key part of that. I went into the arena a Simon skeptic, hoping to see Aston-Reese in that role, but Simon looked good, sharper in his skating, puck handling, and decision making compared to last year. Of course, we still have to see if that carries over when the games get real, but I think he's earned a shot in the top-9 based on preseason.


I can see a lot of openings next season, so no reason to think ZAR, Riikola (though he'll be an RFA), Bleuger won't get a chance in 2019-20. The team will lose a few centers, with one of the centers (Cullen or Sheahan) as a wing. I think there is no way they sign Brassard, unless he takes about a 50% cut from the open market. Bleuger and ZAR will be able to step up next season, if they earn it. I can see one of Schultz or Letang gone next summer, or Schultz the summer after that, with Riikola moving into the lineup. Maybe not to replace one of them, but bottom pairing with everything else moving up a spot.

I think Jarry is in a different situation. By this time next year, Murray could have proven he's not injury prone and Jarry could have proven he's NHL starter ready. If that happens, who do you trade (likely Jarry, but still a question because of the salary cap).
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Re: Training camp (finally!)

Postby FLPensFan on Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:03 pm

Daniel wrote:
largegarlic wrote:I don't want to place too much weight on a preseason performance against Buffalo, but I'll stick for Simon again a little bit. That 3rd line looked very good Wednesday, and he was a key part of that. I went into the arena a Simon skeptic, hoping to see Aston-Reese in that role, but Simon looked good, sharper in his skating, puck handling, and decision making compared to last year. Of course, we still have to see if that carries over when the games get real, but I think he's earned a shot in the top-9 based on preseason.


I can see a lot of openings next season, so no reason to think ZAR, Riikola (though he'll be an RFA), Bleuger won't get a chance in 2019-20. The team will lose a few centers, with one of the centers (Cullen or Sheahan) as a wing. I think there is no way they sign Brassard, unless he takes about a 50% cut from the open market. Bleuger and ZAR will be able to step up next season, if they earn it. I can see one of Schultz or Letang gone next summer, or Schultz the summer after that, with Riikola moving into the lineup. Maybe not to replace one of them, but bottom pairing with everything else moving up a spot.

I think Jarry is in a different situation. By this time next year, Murray could have proven he's not injury prone and Jarry could have proven he's NHL starter ready. If that happens, who do you trade (likely Jarry, but still a question because of the salary cap).

Brassard is a tough sign because of his salary, as well as the fact that so far, he hasn't fit in well. However, if he shows this year he fits as anticipated, the Penguins would still be able to sign him (assuming he isn't upset at lack of playing time, which is a potential issue for him). Signing Brassard for 5M again would likely mean no Hagelin, or the Penguins would need to see continued growth from Riikola and consider moving Maatta/Schultz in a deal to free up more cap space.

If Brassard works well this season at 3C, I would make him a top priority to resign.
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Re: Training camp (finally!)

Postby Jim on Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:13 pm

The issue for the Pens next summer is Guentzel. Any increase to the NHL cap will be eaten by him, plus. Brassard and Hagelin open $7M, but some of that may go to Guentzel and then you need a 3C and mid-6 LW to replace those two. It's not horrible, but it's not going to be fun.
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Re: Training camp (finally!)

Postby Hatrick on Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:37 pm

Daniel wrote:
largegarlic wrote:I don't want to place too much weight on a preseason performance against Buffalo, but I'll stick for Simon again a little bit. That 3rd line looked very good Wednesday, and he was a key part of that. I went into the arena a Simon skeptic, hoping to see Aston-Reese in that role, but Simon looked good, sharper in his skating, puck handling, and decision making compared to last year. Of course, we still have to see if that carries over when the games get real, but I think he's earned a shot in the top-9 based on preseason.


I can see a lot of openings next season, so no reason to think ZAR, Riikola (though he'll be an RFA), Bleuger won't get a chance in 2019-20. The team will lose a few centers, with one of the centers (Cullen or Sheahan) as a wing. I think there is no way they sign Brassard, unless he takes about a 50% cut from the open market. Bleuger and ZAR will be able to step up next season, if they earn it. I can see one of Schultz or Letang gone next summer, or Schultz the summer after that, with Riikola moving into the lineup. Maybe not to replace one of them, but bottom pairing with everything else moving up a spot.

I think Jarry is in a different situation. By this time next year, Murray could have proven he's not injury prone and Jarry could have proven he's NHL starter ready. If that happens, who do you trade (likely Jarry, but still a question because of the salary cap).

because of the cap I don't see them resigning brass, unless like you said he takes a significant pay cut from the open market. They should go after a center in the market but it might have to be somebody cheaper.
I think all the guys you named should get a shot next year to be up the entire year(ZAR as winger, rikkola as a middle pairing or maybe bottom pairing guy, blueger as 4c or maybe even 3c, jarry as backup goalie), all of them can be sent down to AHL this year without risk losing them, and that is better than any of them sitting at the NHL level not doing anything most games.

As for jarry vs murray, its the fleury vs murray debate all over again and for the same reasons imo it would be the right move to keep jarry instead of murray. Of course that is if both prove themselves to be not injury prone NHL goalies both capable of playing reasonably well but not extraordinarily better than the other one.
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Re: Training camp (finally!)

Postby netwolf on Fri Sep 28, 2018 5:36 pm

Don't like to see JS Dea go, but this should be good for him. He's proven to be a very good player, so the next step is to go after an NHL job. He'll get a good look in NJ, and much sooner than he would've here.

Really good story. A kid that inexplicably goes undrafted after scoring a ton in juniors, but gets a look at Pens development camp and worked his tail off to earn a contract. Kept working and made it to the NHL. Hope he keeps it going.
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