Terrible Play but Goaltending ...

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Terrible Play but Goaltending ...

Postby maopens on Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:03 pm

Murray = .890 save percentage this year

De Smith = .933 save percentage

Playing with the same team in front of them so far. Not saying anything drastic but it might be time to ride De Smith for a while and sit Murray for an extended period. he isn't right and hasn't been for a long time going back to last year.
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Re: Terrible Play but Goaltending ...

Postby ville5 on Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:34 pm

Give me a J-
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Re: Terrible Play but Goaltending ...

Postby America on Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:57 pm

5 games giving up 5+ goals
6 games giving up 4+ goals.

MAF would have been burned at the stake by now. Murray is a bust, move on.
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Re: Terrible Play but Goaltending ...

Postby Defence21 on Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:47 pm

America wrote:5 games giving up 5+ goals
6 games giving up 4+ goals.

MAF would have been burned at the stake by now. Murray is a bust, move on.

:face:
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Re: Terrible Play but Goaltending ...

Postby Skatingpen on Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:47 pm

How many more games do you give him? This is now going back to last year. He is not playing well and has not for some time. It is the truth
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Re: Terrible Play but Goaltending ...

Postby Owchar76 on Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:19 am

Fleury has a .901 save% this year. 2.47 GAA. Not exactly lighting it up either.
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Re: Terrible Play but Goaltending ...

Postby Southern Fan on Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:22 am

The guy they are facing tonight has a .888 save percentage and is 33rd in the league on ESPN stats out of 44 goalies, albeit better than our guy at 35th place.

Remember a theory that Holtby would be affected by changes in goalie equipment. Not sure if that is true or not.
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Re: Terrible Play but Goaltending ...

Postby Great58 on Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:41 am

Owchar76 wrote:Fleury has a .901 save% this year. 2.47 GAA. Not exactly lighting it up either.

And tied for leading the league in losses with 6.
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Re: Terrible Play but Goaltending ...

Postby murphydump55 on Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:05 pm

Great58 wrote:
Owchar76 wrote:Fleury has a .901 save% this year. 2.47 GAA. Not exactly lighting it up either.

And tied for leading the league in losses with 6.


Rating a goaltender by wins and losses is akin to doing the same for starting pitchers. It’s worthless.
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Re: Terrible Play but Goaltending ...

Postby penny lane on Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:20 pm

Coach Sullivan confirms- Casey DeSmith in goal tonight.
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Re: Terrible Play but Goaltending ...

Postby Penguins Knight on Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:43 pm

Shots against and goals against can be lower if we play better defensively and do not camp in the defense zone. If the skaters on the ice cannot take care of business, goaltenders have increased risks of failing.
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Re: Terrible Play but Goaltending ...

Postby Great58 on Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:29 pm

murphydump55 wrote:
Great58 wrote:
Owchar76 wrote:Fleury has a .901 save% this year. 2.47 GAA. Not exactly lighting it up either.

And tied for leading the league in losses with 6.


Rating a goaltender by wins and losses is akin to doing the same for starting pitchers. It’s worthless.

I don't disagree, it was a throw away comment. But a bit of an extension of the theory of Ben Bishop, who essentially feels the only goalie stat that matters is wins.
http://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/2510 ... -analytics
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Re: Terrible Play but Goaltending ...

Postby LimerickPensFan on Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:31 pm

Southern Fan wrote:The guy they are facing tonight has a .888 save percentage and is 33rd in the league on ESPN stats out of 44 goalies, albeit better than our guy at 35th place.

Remember a theory that Holtby would be affected by changes in goalie equipment. Not sure if that is true or not.

I didn't think ESPN even knew how to say the word "hockey", let alone kept stats on goalies. :D
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Re: Terrible Play but Goaltending ...

Postby no name on Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:55 pm

I think Sullivan should put the starting goaltending position up grabs, give Murray DeSmith and Jarry all like 5 starts and see who wants it. Murray lost something last year and still hasn't found it again. Honestly he looks awful, but then again the team doesn't look to be playing that strong. The loss of Schultz shouldn't mean that much.
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Re: Terrible Play but Goaltending ...

Postby Penguins Knight on Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:15 pm

Sullivan should put game day roster positions up for grabs. If you play and make contributions, you play. If you do not show up to play, you do not play.
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Re: Terrible Play but Goaltending ...

Postby Great58 on Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:15 pm

no name wrote:I think Sullivan should put the starting goaltending position up grabs, give Murray DeSmith and Jarry all like 5 starts and see who wants it. Murray lost something last year and still hasn't found it again. Honestly he looks awful, but then again the team doesn't look to be playing that strong. The loss of Schultz shouldn't mean that much.

Murray played great in Toronto and Calgary. Toronto was the best team effort all around all season, and Murray looked his best. I hope that interplay can be rekindled quickly.
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Re: Terrible Play but Goaltending ...

Postby danish_penguin on Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:57 pm

I don't have the statistics, but how many of the 18 goals in the last 4 games have come after turnovers in the neutral or defensive zone? I think the answer is a lot.

It's hard to play goalie for the Pens right now.
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Re: Terrible Play but Goaltending ...

Postby Penguins Knight on Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:16 pm

Goaltending remains not the issue. The issues are owned by the skaters who want to play the game in the defense zone.
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Re: Terrible Play but Goaltending ...

Postby Risto on Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:52 am

Penguins Knight wrote:Goaltending remains not the issue. The issues are owned by the skaters who want to play the game in the defense zone.


Yeah, defensive play is an issue, but there's also another NHL team out there on the ice with good players who are going to generate some scoring chances. The goalie's job is to stop some of those grade-A chances, not just to make routine saves. The difference in save percentage between DeSmith and Murray, playing behind the same defense, is striking and cannot be brushed off.
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Re: Terrible Play but Goaltending ...

Postby Jim on Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:55 am

I got into this over Fleury a few years back... but the goalie has 1 job. One. Everything else that he happens to do is bonus/secondary. If he doesn't stop the puck then he is not doing his job.
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Re: Terrible Play but Goaltending ...

Postby Great58 on Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:46 pm

I am happily surprised with DeSmith's continued good play. Aside from shootouts, he's been remarkably good. I did not see him as a NHL netminder, ever as a backup, when he first joined the team.
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Re: Terrible Play but Goaltending ...

Postby Risto on Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:23 pm

NHL goalie is kind of a unique position in all of team sports. How many times over the years have we seen a young guy take the league by storm in his first year or two and then struggle for the rest of his career to find that early form again? The list is long.

Obviously the hope is that this is not Murray's fate, but we're looking at a pretty long stretch now of lackluster play going back to last season, broken only by a couple spurts of strong play. And the numbers so far this season are ghastly.

DeSmith has earned the lion's share of the starts right now. It's a simple as that. Some guys are late bloomers. Tim Thomas didn't make it to the NHL until he was in his 30's, and then he was arguably the best goalie in the league for a period of time and won a Cup.
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Re: Terrible Play but Goaltending ...

Postby Wyopen on Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:37 am

I keep reading about how DeSmith was an ECHL goalie several years ago and other still view him in that light. But we must remember that Johnathan Quick was an ECHL goalie for the Reading Royals and is now not only an NHL goaltender, but a SC champion. I know these are few and far between, but doesn’t he deserve a chance? Maybe as stated, he’s a late bloomer.
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Re: Terrible Play but Goaltending ...

Postby Jim on Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:26 am

Wyopen wrote:I keep reading about how DeSmith was an ECHL goalie several years ago and other still view him in that light. But we must remember that Johnathan Quick was an ECHL goalie for the Reading Royals and is now not only an NHL goaltender, but a SC champion. I know these are few and far between, but doesn’t he deserve a chance? Maybe as stated, he’s a late bloomer.


Looking at another recent Pens goalie... Casey Desmith played 13 games for the Wheeling Nailers (ECHL) after college before moving to the AHL. Tomas Vokoun played 35 games for Wheeling Thunderbirds (ECHL) after coming from Czech before moving onto playing 700 NHL games.
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Re: Terrible Play but Goaltending ...

Postby Pitts on Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:31 pm

Owchar76 wrote:Fleury has a .901 save% this year. 2.47 GAA. Not exactly lighting it up either.

Fleury is also playing on an expansion team who came back down to the standard this season. I'd think his numbers would be better on a better team.
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