Shaking up the stale Penguins

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Shaking up the stale Penguins

Postby FLPensFan on Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:26 pm

Looking at shaking up the team a bit. Here's the top 3 players I would look to move in a shakeup.

1. Carl Hagelin - He cost 4M and is a UFA at season's end. Everyone loves his speed and his PK ability. Everyone talks about his intangibles and ability to open up space for linemates. But his production is horrible, year after year. Carl Hagelin had a career end of year when acquired from Anaheim. He was putting up points at about double his career average numbers in both the regular season and playoffs the year the Penguins acquired him. He's been under his career numbers every since, regular season and playoffs. Word is there are still teams that would find Carl Hagelin a valuable addition, but, the Penguins can no longer justify "but he does so many other things well" narrative for Hagelin...not when they've got half a dozen players trying to use that same narrative.

2. Olli Maatta - Injuries, cancer, mumps...the kid just hasn't been the same since his first two years in the league. With the Penguins style of defensive play, Maatta skating deficiencies are exposed each and every game. He's not horrible in the right system. He could probably do much better in a slower Western conference. His age and his contract will still be very attractive to multiple teams. But, it's time for the Penguins to stop trying to make him fit here. His skating is not improving, and his style is exposed more under Sullivan than it was with Bylsma/Johnston.

3. Derick Brassard - Brassard still has a few games left on his clock, but, he has to stay healthy, has to remain at 3C, and has to show something quickly when he returns to the lineup. Cullen and Sheahan can't hold down the 3C job, and don't add the danger value that a producing Brassard does to the lineup. But the Penguins can't wait all season for Brassard to produce. By the end of this month, middle of December tops, they need to see what they really have with Brassard, or find someone who is willing to take a chance on him rebounding in another city.

When looking at potential targets, it's easiest to start at the bottom dwellers. A few names I would take a look at:

- Erik Haula, VGK. Haula is relatively young, has another cheap year on his contract (under 3M), and plays both LW and C. Haula has speed, can PK, and would give some added insurance if either Hagelin or Brassard is dealt. Haula replacing Hagelin on LW would be idea, and an upgrade in production for less money, while still having the speed and PK ability. Haula is currently injured, day to day.

- Marcus Johanssen, NJD. Johanssen is a UFA at season's end, and makes 4.58M. He has some speed and offensive ability, more than Hagelin on the LW in terms of production, but he isn't going to be as strong defensively. He doesn't PK.

- Andreas Athanasiou, DET. Speed, plays multiple forward positions. Solid defensively. Would be a decent add to the Penguins, and again give some flexibility in terms of LW and Center. Detroit has an aging defense with 3 of their top 4 defenders over 33 years old....would Maatta for Athansiou be of interest to the Red Wings?

- Tanner Pearson, LA. He's struggling this season and has been rumored to be on the block. LW, reasonable contract.


Bottom line: Penguins LW position has been a weakness for 2 years, and they continue to fail and address it. Hagelin having ANOTHER horrible start isn't helping matters. Penguins bottom 6 center position needs Brassard to step up, or they will need help there too. Stop dressing Cullen every game when everyone is healthy. If Johnson can continue his solid play with Letang, Dumo-Schultz can go back to 2nd pairing, Oleksiak and one of Ruhwedel, Riikola, or a deadline acquisition can round out bottom pair. Move Maatta while he still has some value with some teams.
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Re: Shaking up the stale Penguins

Postby jreed on Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:34 pm

I agree on those three. Id add Sprong to that list if he isnt able to figure things out soon. Bring ZAR up and see what he can do.

I honestly dont know who to acquire in trade, but I think some change is needed.
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Re: Shaking up the stale Penguins

Postby Ericf on Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:37 pm

I think Brassard and Maatta need to be considered as trade bait just because of fit alone but I wouldn’t trade Hags...he’ll be fine...he usually doesn’t have his legs until Christmas but he brings a lot other than scoring...

As far as the players you suggested, I like AA best for this team as we need youth and speed. But our biggest problem by far is lack of mobile D men who can make a good first pass in transition to the forwards...in other words we need Daley circa 2016...that will help scoring and the depth scoring so much more than a swap in forwards....so I think we should be looking at someone like Faulk maybe...not saying CAR trades with us...
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Re: Shaking up the stale Penguins

Postby itissteeltime on Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:52 pm

Hags speed is huge come playoff time.
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Re: Shaking up the stale Penguins

Postby Pitts on Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:52 pm

Don't know why they keep hanging on to Maatta. I agree he is a perfect trade chip to she things up a bit. I'd package him with Sprong and see if you can get another d/f combo from another team.
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Re: Shaking up the stale Penguins

Postby Ohio_Pens_fan on Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:33 pm

Johnson may show some ability with Letang but his salary, length of contract, and pairing skills with other Dmen is cause enough for his name to be added to the list. However, good luck in finding anyone to take him. Would love to have Haula and Athanasiou here but I don't think they'll be available unfortunately.
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Re: Shaking up the stale Penguins

Postby Penspal on Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:57 pm

itissteeltime wrote:Hags speed is huge come playoff time.


meep meep!
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Re: Shaking up the stale Penguins

Postby stonewizard51 on Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:59 pm

jreed wrote:I agree on those three. Id add Sprong to that list if he isnt able to figure things out soon. Bring ZAR up and see what he can do.

I honestly dont know who to acquire in trade, but I think some change is needed.

Sprong would most likely have to be a throw in. True he hasn't figured things out at this level, and maybe that's because he hasn't really been given a chance, but based on his level of play so far JR wouldn't get much back in return for him so here's hopng he sorts stuff out soon.
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Re: Shaking up the stale Penguins

Postby Jim on Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:08 pm

FLPensFan wrote:Looking at shaking up the team a bit. Here's the top 3 players I would look to move in a shakeup.

1. Carl Hagelin - He cost 4M and is a UFA at season's end. Everyone loves his speed and his PK ability. Everyone talks about his intangibles and ability to open up space for linemates. But his production is horrible, year after year. Carl Hagelin had a career end of year when acquired from Anaheim. He was putting up points at about double his career average numbers in both the regular season and playoffs the year the Penguins acquired him. He's been under his career numbers every since, regular season and playoffs. Word is there are still teams that would find Carl Hagelin a valuable addition, but, the Penguins can no longer justify "but he does so many other things well" narrative for Hagelin...not when they've got half a dozen players trying to use that same narrative.

2. Olli Maatta - Injuries, cancer, mumps...the kid just hasn't been the same since his first two years in the league. With the Penguins style of defensive play, Maatta skating deficiencies are exposed each and every game. He's not horrible in the right system. He could probably do much better in a slower Western conference. His age and his contract will still be very attractive to multiple teams. But, it's time for the Penguins to stop trying to make him fit here. His skating is not improving, and his style is exposed more under Sullivan than it was with Bylsma/Johnston.

3. Derick Brassard - Brassard still has a few games left on his clock, but, he has to stay healthy, has to remain at 3C, and has to show something quickly when he returns to the lineup. Cullen and Sheahan can't hold down the 3C job, and don't add the danger value that a producing Brassard does to the lineup. But the Penguins can't wait all season for Brassard to produce. By the end of this month, middle of December tops, they need to see what they really have with Brassard, or find someone who is willing to take a chance on him rebounding in another city.

When looking at potential targets, it's easiest to start at the bottom dwellers. A few names I would take a look at:

- Erik Haula, VGK. Haula is relatively young, has another cheap year on his contract (under 3M), and plays both LW and C. Haula has speed, can PK, and would give some added insurance if either Hagelin or Brassard is dealt. Haula replacing Hagelin on LW would be idea, and an upgrade in production for less money, while still having the speed and PK ability. Haula is currently injured, day to day.

- Marcus Johanssen, NJD. Johanssen is a UFA at season's end, and makes 4.58M. He has some speed and offensive ability, more than Hagelin on the LW in terms of production, but he isn't going to be as strong defensively. He doesn't PK.

- Andreas Athanasiou, DET. Speed, plays multiple forward positions. Solid defensively. Would be a decent add to the Penguins, and again give some flexibility in terms of LW and Center. Detroit has an aging defense with 3 of their top 4 defenders over 33 years old....would Maatta for Athansiou be of interest to the Red Wings?

- Tanner Pearson, LA. He's struggling this season and has been rumored to be on the block. LW, reasonable contract.


Bottom line: Penguins LW position has been a weakness for 2 years, and they continue to fail and address it. Hagelin having ANOTHER horrible start isn't helping matters. Penguins bottom 6 center position needs Brassard to step up, or they will need help there too. Stop dressing Cullen every game when everyone is healthy. If Johnson can continue his solid play with Letang, Dumo-Schultz can go back to 2nd pairing, Oleksiak and one of Ruhwedel, Riikola, or a deadline acquisition can round out bottom pair. Move Maatta while he still has some value with some teams.


Athanasiou - Do not want
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Re: Shaking up the stale Penguins

Postby Jim on Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:09 pm

Ohio_Pens_fan wrote:Johnson may show some ability with Letang but his salary, length of contract, and pairing skills with other Dmen is cause enough for his name to be added to the list. However, good luck in finding anyone to take him. Would love to have Haula and Athanasiou here but I don't think they'll be available unfortunately.


Johnson will not be traded while Rutherford is GM.
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Re: Shaking up the stale Penguins

Postby RentedMule66 on Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:59 pm

But but but he's big game Brassard!! .... what a terrible trade that turned out to be. IIRC we were starting to roll up until the trade deadline last year.....he hasn't done dick since he's been here.
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Re: Shaking up the stale Penguins

Postby FLPensFan on Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:40 pm

itissteeltime wrote:Hags speed is huge come playoff time.

News flash....other players are fast too. Some of those fast players actually have offensive skills too.

That's not to pick on you, but, we've been hearing this stuff for 2 years. Hagelin was good his first year in Pittsburgh, and hasn't been very good since the 1st of the back to back Cups.

I keep continually thinking anymore that Carl Hagelin is Konstantin Koltsov 2.0....all the speed in the world but giant cinder blocks for hands.
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Re: Shaking up the stale Penguins

Postby FLPensFan on Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:42 pm

Ohio_Pens_fan wrote:Johnson may show some ability with Letang but his salary, length of contract, and pairing skills with other Dmen is cause enough for his name to be added to the list. However, good luck in finding anyone to take him. Would love to have Haula and Athanasiou here but I don't think they'll be available unfortunately.

His salary is fine. He's making 4/5 type money. Length is a concern. An injury to Letang, and yes, I do have some concern about how he plays with another partner again. But for now, he's fine.
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Re: Shaking up the stale Penguins

Postby FLPensFan on Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:43 pm

Jim wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Looking at shaking up the team a bit. Here's the top 3 players I would look to move in a shakeup.

1. Carl Hagelin - He cost 4M and is a UFA at season's end. Everyone loves his speed and his PK ability. Everyone talks about his intangibles and ability to open up space for linemates. But his production is horrible, year after year. Carl Hagelin had a career end of year when acquired from Anaheim. He was putting up points at about double his career average numbers in both the regular season and playoffs the year the Penguins acquired him. He's been under his career numbers every since, regular season and playoffs. Word is there are still teams that would find Carl Hagelin a valuable addition, but, the Penguins can no longer justify "but he does so many other things well" narrative for Hagelin...not when they've got half a dozen players trying to use that same narrative.

2. Olli Maatta - Injuries, cancer, mumps...the kid just hasn't been the same since his first two years in the league. With the Penguins style of defensive play, Maatta skating deficiencies are exposed each and every game. He's not horrible in the right system. He could probably do much better in a slower Western conference. His age and his contract will still be very attractive to multiple teams. But, it's time for the Penguins to stop trying to make him fit here. His skating is not improving, and his style is exposed more under Sullivan than it was with Bylsma/Johnston.

3. Derick Brassard - Brassard still has a few games left on his clock, but, he has to stay healthy, has to remain at 3C, and has to show something quickly when he returns to the lineup. Cullen and Sheahan can't hold down the 3C job, and don't add the danger value that a producing Brassard does to the lineup. But the Penguins can't wait all season for Brassard to produce. By the end of this month, middle of December tops, they need to see what they really have with Brassard, or find someone who is willing to take a chance on him rebounding in another city.

When looking at potential targets, it's easiest to start at the bottom dwellers. A few names I would take a look at:

- Erik Haula, VGK. Haula is relatively young, has another cheap year on his contract (under 3M), and plays both LW and C. Haula has speed, can PK, and would give some added insurance if either Hagelin or Brassard is dealt. Haula replacing Hagelin on LW would be idea, and an upgrade in production for less money, while still having the speed and PK ability. Haula is currently injured, day to day.

- Marcus Johanssen, NJD. Johanssen is a UFA at season's end, and makes 4.58M. He has some speed and offensive ability, more than Hagelin on the LW in terms of production, but he isn't going to be as strong defensively. He doesn't PK.

- Andreas Athanasiou, DET. Speed, plays multiple forward positions. Solid defensively. Would be a decent add to the Penguins, and again give some flexibility in terms of LW and Center. Detroit has an aging defense with 3 of their top 4 defenders over 33 years old....would Maatta for Athansiou be of interest to the Red Wings?

- Tanner Pearson, LA. He's struggling this season and has been rumored to be on the block. LW, reasonable contract.


Bottom line: Penguins LW position has been a weakness for 2 years, and they continue to fail and address it. Hagelin having ANOTHER horrible start isn't helping matters. Penguins bottom 6 center position needs Brassard to step up, or they will need help there too. Stop dressing Cullen every game when everyone is healthy. If Johnson can continue his solid play with Letang, Dumo-Schultz can go back to 2nd pairing, Oleksiak and one of Ruhwedel, Riikola, or a deadline acquisition can round out bottom pair. Move Maatta while he still has some value with some teams.


Athanasiou - Do not want

Why? Just curious.
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Re: Shaking up the stale Penguins

Postby Maestro on Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:10 am

Let's see how Brassard can impact the team. No need to panic yet. It's early doors.
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Re: Shaking up the stale Penguins

Postby Great58 on Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:56 am

Erik Haula

Haula is on IR, I believe labeled as “month to month” with the full extent of the injury and recovery time still not clear. I read yesterday they are waiting for second and third opinions to guide their decision making.
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Re: Shaking up the stale Penguins

Postby Pitts on Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:08 am

FLPensFan wrote:I keep continually thinking anymore that Carl Hagelin is Konstantin Koltsov 2.0....all the speed in the world but giant cinder blocks for hands.

Yep! He's had so many chances, especially recently, and he can't buy a goal. His hands are terrible.
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Re: Shaking up the stale Penguins

Postby BurghThing on Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:15 am

Apparently the only shakeup they think they need is signing GMJR for 3 more years.
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Re: Shaking up the stale Penguins

Postby murphydump55 on Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:23 am

itissteeltime wrote:Hags speed is huge come playoff time.


He might prevent the team from making the playoffs. He’s brutal.
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Re: Shaking up the stale Penguins

Postby murphydump55 on Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:24 am

BurghThing wrote:Apparently the only shakeup they think they need is signing GMJR for 3 more years.


This is the worst. We are in trouble.
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Re: Shaking up the stale Penguins

Postby Penspal on Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:42 am

A shakeup of some kind is coming. I'm not thrilled with any of the acquisitions you have proposed.

Hindsight is 20/20 as they say. Skinner was the guy the Pens should have gotten, he's been great (still could take one head shot, be done though....)

What could a Jake Guentzel bring? What if you combo'ed it up with Brassard? I think with the right stuff on the table, the return could be much bigger. What if they trade Kessel?
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Re: Shaking up the stale Penguins

Postby largegarlic on Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:30 am

Penspal wrote:A shakeup of some kind is coming. I'm not thrilled with any of the acquisitions you have proposed.

Hindsight is 20/20 as they say. Skinner was the guy the Pens should have gotten, he's been great (still could take one head shot, be done though....)

What could a Jake Guentzel bring? What if you combo'ed it up with Brassard? I think with the right stuff on the table, the return could be much bigger. What if they trade Kessel?


I don't even think this is hindsight, though. Most people on this board were pretty skeptical about the moves made over the summer. It seemed clear to just about everyone that the Pens needed to get younger and/or hungrier and/or faster, and then the two main UFA additions were an over-30 d-man with skating issues and an over-40 retread center.

I'd also be open to considering a Kessel trade. There was a lot of talk over the summer about Letang and Kessel as being two over-30 guys we could trade and get a good return on. It's not necessarily about either guy being bad per se, but more just about the issue of having an over-30 core and trying to find a way to inject some younger talent into that. Clearly, trading Letang is out at this point (he's playing reasonably well and there's nobody else remotely close to being a #1 d-man), so Kessel seems to be the big move if they really want to shake things up.
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Re: Shaking up the stale Penguins

Postby penny lane on Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:43 am

Wes Crosby
‏Verified account @OtherNHLCrosby
3m3 minutes ago

Rutherford when asked if he has something to announce, he says the #Pens HAVE made a trade. He cannot say what it is yet.


Apparently the pens are on the clock. tick tock
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Re: Shaking up the stale Penguins

Postby scpensfan on Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:52 am

Dreger says it's Tanner Pearson
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Re: Shaking up the stale Penguins

Postby E-Ramone on Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:52 am

I've read that Tanner Pearson is coming to the Pens.
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