Shaking up the stale Penguins

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Re: Shaking up the stale Penguins

Postby Jim on Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:29 pm

Wyopen wrote:On a side note, doesn’t seem weird to sign a GM to an extension when your team has lost 6 out of the last 7 games and has made questionable trades/acquisitions recently, as others have stated? Not knocking it, just saying it’s weird timing.


No, because professionals look at larger pictures than the last 6 games.

I dislike nearly all of Rutherford's signings, but that is me. His trades however... while not all gems they are all wins for the Pens. (even though Brassard has dropped the ball)
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Re: Shaking up the stale Penguins

Postby Crashguy66 on Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:59 pm

Crosby is "being evaluated for an upper body injury" per Sully.
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Re: Shaking up the stale Penguins

Postby Great58 on Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:15 pm

[quote="Wyopen] We got a younger version of Carl Hagelin.[/quote]
Did we? Is Pearson that terribly fast? And it's said he can shoot.
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Re: Shaking up the stale Penguins

Postby alancac98 on Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:09 pm

Actually, I think it is a stupid move to trade anyone away from the offensive side. Gotta fix the D first - Letang is a turnover machine, yet apparently he gets a free pass.
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Re: Shaking up the stale Penguins

Postby Jim on Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:16 pm

alancac98 wrote:Actually, I think it is a stupid move to trade anyone away from the offensive side.


Rutherford agrees, which is why he traded Hagelin. 8-)
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Re: Shaking up the stale Penguins

Postby Pitts on Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:22 pm

alancac98 wrote:Actually, I think it is a stupid move to trade anyone away from the offensive side. Gotta fix the D first - Letang is a turnover machine, yet apparently he gets a free pass.

He gets a pass because he creates a sh#t-ton of offense. It's the same reason Malkin and Kessel get passes for all the turnovers they create. Why do people not understand this?
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Re: Shaking up the stale Penguins

Postby Puck-Lurker on Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:53 pm

scpensfan wrote:It does open us up to the possibility, however farfetched, of a Pearson-Malkin-Sprong PMS line.

HMS would've been fun just for the hell of it.

The HMS Penguin...
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Re: Shaking up the stale Penguins

Postby murphydump55 on Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:39 pm

alancac98 wrote:Actually, I think it is a stupid move to trade anyone away from the offensive side. Gotta fix the D first - Letang is a turnover machine, yet apparently he gets a free pass.


Leading the league in turnovers? Doughty. Most top offensive defensemen are up there because they always have the puck and try to make things happen using their skill. I guess they could be “safe” ala Rob Scuderi or Dan Girardi? We all know how great they are. Brent Burns is also way up there. Does he suck too?

Btw Letang has 15 giveaways and 18 takeaways. Doughty has 37 giveaways and 3 takeaways.

You were saying?
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Re: Shaking up the stale Penguins

Postby FLPensFan on Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:07 pm

murphydump55 wrote:
alancac98 wrote:Actually, I think it is a stupid move to trade anyone away from the offensive side. Gotta fix the D first - Letang is a turnover machine, yet apparently he gets a free pass.


Leading the league in turnovers? Doughty. Most top offensive defensemen are up there because they always have the puck and try to make things happen using their skill. I guess they could be “safe” ala Rob Scuderi or Dan Girardi? We all know how great they are. Brent Burns is also way up there. Does he suck too?

Btw Letang has 15 giveaways and 18 takeaways. Doughty has 37 giveaways and 3 takeaways.

You were saying?

I still remember last year, when Letang was struggling, and someone spoke to Brent Burns about it at the All-Star game. Burns talked about how the great players make plays that are fractions of an inch one way or another. Passes and plays that are fractions of an inch from being an incredible play or a bad turnover. The great players are much more successful at those fraction of an inch plays, and much more willing to even try them. Said he knew Letang would be fine, he's just on the wrong side of those fractions of inches right now. He'd be more concerned if he stopped trying those plays altogether.

I'd say this season, those plays are going Letang's way more often than not. Doesn't mean there still aren't turnovers and bad giveaways, but, sometimes people have to realize that a lot of players in the league can't even make those plays, and won't consider them. When they work, they are often overlooked much more than when they fail.
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Re: Shaking up the stale Penguins

Postby Pruezy11881 on Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:37 pm

So I've been pondering something since the trade went down. I fully get the team needed a shakeup and Haggy was the one to go. It should get the attention of guys as he was well liked. What I'm wondering is if this wasn't a little bit of an attention grabber for Sully as well. The two of them had history back with the Rangers and it's been said that Sully pushed to acquire Haggy that year. Maybe Rutherford wants to bring him back down to Earth a little bit and refocus him as the coach? I don't feel that it's completely off base...
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Re: Shaking up the stale Penguins

Postby pronovost19 on Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:56 am

Tank it...for Hughes or Dach....that is all.
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Re: Shaking up the stale Penguins

Postby Pensfan4life8771 on Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:02 am

Anyone else get the sense the Pens are making another trade today? I think the D needs a major shakeup. I don't know if you can trade Matta though. The kid is so young. If you get a great return for him or a package of Sprong/Matta for a solid D and forward than maybe you do it. It doesn't help Sid has been out and Brassard has been out. Would really like to see both of them in lineup before this five game stretch is over.

Looking at the next five games ahead we have the following games:

Ottawa Saturday
Buffalo Monday
Dallas Wednesday
Boston Friday
Columbus Saturday

If Pens come out of that five game stretch with only two wins or less I think you start hearing rumbles of Sullivan being on the hot seat. I love Sully but Pens do this every 4-5 years where they flourish with a new coach and than become def tone. It's going to be an interesting second half of November.

Side note: I need the Pens to get going....my baseball team fell on their face this year and my football team lost their season on an ACL injury. Come on Pens!
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Re: Shaking up the stale Penguins

Postby pronovost19 on Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:36 am

Pensfan4life8771 wrote:Anyone else get the sense the Pens are making another trade today? I think the D needs a major shakeup. I don't know if you can trade Matta though. The kid is so young. If you get a great return for him or a package of Sprong/Matta for a solid D and forward than maybe you do it. It doesn't help Sid has been out and Brassard has been out. Would really like to see both of them in lineup before this five game stretch is over.

Looking at the next five games ahead we have the following games:

Ottawa Saturday
Buffalo Monday
Dallas Wednesday
Boston Friday
Columbus Saturday

If Pens come out of that five game stretch with only two wins or less I think you start hearing rumbles of Sullivan being on the hot seat. I love Sully but Pens do this every 4-5 years where they flourish with a new coach and than become def tone. It's going to be an interesting second half of November.

Side note: I need the Pens to get going....my baseball team fell on their face this year and my football team lost their season on an ACL injury. Come on Pens!


Maybe the Cole situation last year turned some of the room against Sully? Seems to be getting less dividend from his investment lately.
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Re: Shaking up the stale Penguins

Postby FLPensFan on Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:42 am

Pensfan4life8771 wrote:Anyone else get the sense the Pens are making another trade today? I think the D needs a major shakeup. I don't know if you can trade Matta though. The kid is so young. If you get a great return for him or a package of Sprong/Matta for a solid D and forward than maybe you do it. It doesn't help Sid has been out and Brassard has been out. Would really like to see both of them in lineup before this five game stretch is over.

Looking at the next five games ahead we have the following games:

Ottawa Saturday
Buffalo Monday
Dallas Wednesday
Boston Friday
Columbus Saturday

If Pens come out of that five game stretch with only two wins or less I think you start hearing rumbles of Sullivan being on the hot seat. I love Sully but Pens do this every 4-5 years where they flourish with a new coach and than become def tone. It's going to be an interesting second half of November.

Side note: I need the Pens to get going....my baseball team fell on their face this year and my football team lost their season on an ACL injury. Come on Pens!

I think we need to wait until at least one of Brassard or Crosby is back to get a full sense of the team. The other centers they are dressing just are not any good, and it is difficult to bring in a minute other center when the jury is still out on Brassard.

Maatta age really isn't a factor for me anymore, except maybe increasing his return in a deal. He doesnt fit well on this team, and hasn't been consistent since Bylsma left. If there were a d for d swap involving Maatta, I'd likely be all for it.
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Re: Shaking up the stale Penguins

Postby ville5 on Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:55 am

Pruezy11881 wrote:So I've been pondering something since the trade went down. I fully get the team needed a shakeup and Haggy was the one to go. It should get the attention of guys as he was well liked. What I'm wondering is if this wasn't a little bit of an attention grabber for Sully as well. The two of them had history back with the Rangers and it's been said that Sully pushed to acquire Haggy that year. Maybe Rutherford wants to bring him back down to Earth a little bit and refocus him as the coach? I don't feel that it's completely off base...

I think you are spot on.
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Re: Shaking up the stale Penguins

Postby brwi on Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:00 am

FLPensFan wrote:I think we need to wait until at least one of Brassard or Crosby is back to get a full sense of the team. The other centers they are dressing just are not any good, and it is difficult to bring in a minute other center when the jury is still out on Brassard.

Definitely not much else can be done except wait on the return of Brass and/or Sid. Right now it's Malkin and useless scrubs, turning what was supposed to be the best 4 centers in the league into one of the worst. Sheahan looks just like he did in Detroit and right after when the Pens acquired him. He became pretty decent last year finally, but has regressed, Grant is pressbox or WBS material and no way Cullen should be a full time starter. Until a healthy return, it is what it is,
Maatta age really isn't a factor for me anymore, except maybe increasing his return in a deal. He doesnt fit well on this team, and hasn't been consistent since Bylsma left. If there were a d for d swap involving Maatta, I'd likely be all for it.


Maatta has a good grasp on being a defensive dman and can be pretty effective at that generally, but that isn't what the Pens value very much from a blueliner(see Cole). They want dmen with some offensive ability. He's also overpaid and not good value at all on a cap-maxed club. A d-d swap for a cheaper player who can make the first pass on a zone breakout or get a shot on net would be delightful for this system.
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Re: Shaking up the stale Penguins

Postby ville5 on Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:24 am

Jim wrote:
alancac98 wrote:Actually, I think it is a stupid move to trade anyone away from the offensive side.


Rutherford agrees, which is why he traded Hagelin. 8-)

I chuckled.
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Re: Shaking up the stale Penguins

Postby ville5 on Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:27 am

Jim wrote:
ville5 wrote:
ville5 wrote:Pearson 26- 325 games, .44 points per.
Rust 26- 197 games, .42 points per.

Hagelin 30- 504 games, .45 points per.


Last 2 seasons (16-17 and 17-18)
Hagelin: 0.373
Pearson: 0.519

This is fun.

Yes it is. Someone asked what kind of player Pearson was. I was just providing a reference point.
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Re: Shaking up the stale Penguins

Postby FLPensFan on Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:12 pm

brwi wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:I think we need to wait until at least one of Brassard or Crosby is back to get a full sense of the team. The other centers they are dressing just are not any good, and it is difficult to bring in a minute other center when the jury is still out on Brassard.

Definitely not much else can be done except wait on the return of Brass and/or Sid. Right now it's Malkin and useless scrubs, turning what was supposed to be the best 4 centers in the league into one of the worst. Sheahan looks just like he did in Detroit and right after when the Pens acquired him. He became pretty decent last year finally, but has regressed, Grant is pressbox or WBS material and no way Cullen should be a full time starter. Until a healthy return, it is what it is,
Maatta age really isn't a factor for me anymore, except maybe increasing his return in a deal. He doesnt fit well on this team, and hasn't been consistent since Bylsma left. If there were a d for d swap involving Maatta, I'd likely be all for it.


Maatta has a good grasp on being a defensive dman and can be pretty effective at that generally, but that isn't what the Pens value very much from a blueliner(see Cole). They want dmen with some offensive ability. He's also overpaid and not good value at all on a cap-maxed club. A d-d swap for a cheaper player who can make the first pass on a zone breakout or get a shot on net would be delightful for this system.

Brassard skated on his own, and is now a full participant in practice today. Hopefully that means he plays against Ottawa.

He must have heard me getting my name change tweet ready for him, from big game Brass to big ball of Glass. I've already used Beau Brassard on him once....
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Re: Shaking up the stale Penguins

Postby FLPensFan on Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:34 pm

According to Yohe, he believes another deal will be coming soon if the Penguins dont turn things around quick. He said for being around Rutherford as much as he has, he can tell he is impatient and extremely disappointed with the teams play to date.

I cant remember the stat, but I want to say it is something like more than 6 points out of playoff spot by end of November is less than 20% chance of making playoffs.
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Re: Shaking up the stale Penguins

Postby LimerickPensFan on Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:55 pm

FLPensFan wrote:According to Yohe, he believes another deal will be coming soon if the Penguins dont turn things around quick. He said for being around Rutherford as much as he has, he can tell he is impatient and extremely disappointed with the teams play to date.

I cant remember the stat, but I want to say it is something like more than 6 points out of playoff spot by end of November is less than 20% chance of making playoffs.

We're only 3 points behind the 3rd place Rangers and have two games in hand on them.
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Re: Shaking up the stale Penguins

Postby DelPen on Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:15 pm

Rutherford did not look happy last night.

At least Brassard was between Jake and Phil at practice. I would have these as the lines tomorrow:

Pearson-Malkin-Hornqvsit
Guentzel-Brassard-Kessel
Simon-Cullen(or Crosby)-Sprong
ZAR-Sheehan-Rust

Sprong was on 2nd unit PP so hopefully he’s back in.
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Re: Shaking up the stale Penguins

Postby THEREALpittsburghpenguins on Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:57 pm

Maybe we could trade for Ryan Reaves and Oskar sundqvist. 4 goals each. Sundqvist has his 4 in only 9 games this year. Each of these players individually has scored the same amount of goals as rust, Cullen, Sheahan, brassard, zar, Wilson, sprong, and grant combined. Ouch.
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Re: Shaking up the stale Penguins

Postby Maestro on Sat Nov 17, 2018 3:18 am

DelPen wrote:Rutherford did not look happy last night.

At least Brassard was between Jake and Phil at practice. I would have these as the lines tomorrow:

Pearson-Malkin-Hornqvsit
Guentzel-Brassard-Kessel
Simon-Cullen(or Crosby)-Sprong
ZAR-Sheehan-Rust

Sprong was on 2nd unit PP so hopefully he’s back in.


That should be enough to beat Ott.
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Re: Shaking up the stale Penguins

Postby RisslingsMissingTeeth on Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:59 am

Amazing to think that as of this morning, the Pens have only 1 more win than the worst team in the league (LA). Yes it is early but the league is very competitive this year.
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