Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

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Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby FLPensFan on Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:42 pm

OK, last time I threw out about 5 names when I started this thread, and hit on Tanner Pearson. So, let's try this again and see if I can work some magic again.

My first thought......I generally don't like the idea of the team getting older, but there is a player out there that I think I would do it for....Michael Grabner. I think just about everyone here was interested in getting him at the deadline or over the summer. I'm not sure why it didn't work out over the summer. The Penguins reportedly had interest. I wanted to see Hagelin shipped out, and replaced with Grabner. He does many of the things Hagelin did, but with better hands. He is off to a good start, so Arizona may not be willing to part with him. But, Arizona is still going to be a stretch make the playoffs this year. The Coyotes are at the max contract limit, so, they can't take in more players than they ship out. Grabner also has a partial NMC. Would Bryan Rust (5 years younger than Grabner) and the conditional 4th (that increases to a 3rd if Sheary scores 20...which looks likely) be enough for Arizona to consider? Or instead of the pick, maybe swap out a better young forward in our system for a weaker prospect from Arizona....maybe send a guy like Anthony Angello. Not sure if Arizona even considers this trade though.

So what else? How about Tyler Bozak with 1M retained for Derick Brassard and a pick/prospect? This would be contingent on Brassard not finding his game here over the next 1-2 weeks. Bozak is playing a 2C role in STL, which is probably a bit above him as a permanent spot. I think he could do the 2C role in case of an injury (to Crosby or Malkin), but not as a permanent spot. Brassard is playing a 3C role here, and is more used to 2C minutes. Seems like a good opportunity to switch some things up. STL is struggling like Pittsburgh, and is likely looking at trade scenarios.

On defense....for Jack Johnson, I think the best we can hope for is Rutherford pulls some magic and gets Seattle to take him in a year or two in the expansion draft. Unless someone is ravaged by injuries and looking for an experienced defenseman, I think it will be hard to move JJ. But, Maatta on the other hand, the other consistently slow problem child....how about to Anaheim for either Josh Manson or Brandon Montour. There were rumors from Elliotte Friedman that the Penguins and Ducks were looking at a lateral move. Hard to find information, but I have seen some equal frustration in the Twitterverse with both Montour and Manson. I believe it is Montour who is more on the block (rumored for Nylander), which would be good in a few ways. Montour is a better skater (which Penguins need) and is a right handed RD. Oleksiak, Johnson, and Riikola can all play either side even though they are all left handed. Adding another solid skating RD would be great. His defense can have lapses, but if the guy can skate, then I'd take him over the speed challenged Maatta.

Andreas Athanisiou. Unfortunately, he's heating up, and I think the time has passed where Detroit might be willing to move him. Could you offer both Rust and Sprong and get him and a pick? I don't know. But again, this is a young guy with speed, offense, and two way ability that might help the Penguins cause. Again, I think Detroit was once considering moving him due to inconsistent play and his contract status. He's playing more consistent right now wit 7 goals and 5 assists on the season. Getting him may not be easy.

I'd be happy if any two of these actually went down, but I think these are a little bit harder to see happening.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby Ohio_Pens_fan on Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:40 pm

Get outta my head, FLPF. I was just thinking the other the day that maybe one of the reasons GMJR signed Johnson to a lengthier contract was the Pens would try to pawn him off to Seattle in case JJ didn't pan out. I'd be OK with the Bozak suggestion, but only IF there is the salary retention. Have you given any thought to a multi player deal with Carolina involving Staal and Faulk coming here? There would be some major or numerous player changes going the other way and I don't know what Carolina's needs are other than not spending much money.
Last edited by Ohio_Pens_fan on Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby Skatingpen on Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:50 pm

Guys, while I love your never ending attempt to fix this team, there are way to many issues that any trade will fix
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby thehockeyguru on Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:06 pm

I think moving Brassard would make the most sense at this point. He won't be resigning here and really hasn't fit in at all. He still has value and can bring us an asset in return. I'd really like to move him plus for Faksa from Dallas.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby KG on Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:03 pm

Would think Brassard and Maatta are the most valuable pieces they could move and get a nice return for a retool.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby FLPensFan on Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:03 pm

Skatingpen wrote:Guys, while I love your never ending attempt to fix this team, there are way to many issues that any trade will fix

You are correct. No one trade or two trades that will fix the issues, but, one or two trades, combined with increased effort, can turn things around.

It's kind of interesting to me, and I didn't do it on purpose, that 3 of the trade targets I mentioned were all guys I thought they should have went after last year....Grabner and Bozak, and to a lesser extent, Athanisiou. There was mutual interest in Grabner, I know that for sure. The money he got is less than Bryan Rust and Carl Hagelin. So, not sure why it didn't work out. Only thing I can think of is at the time, Rutherford was so attached to Rust and wouldn't move Hagelin there was no room for Grabner. Also recall, Penguins had heavy interest in Domi, but reportedly wouldn't part with Rust and/or Simon.

Imagine this to start the season:

Guentzel-Crosby-Grabner
Domi-Malkin-Hornqvist
Hagelin-Brassard-Kessel
Sheahan-Cullen-Sprong
xGrant

It still wouldn't have solved the Cullen mistake, but that lineup adds youth, skill and speed, instead of adding age and not much skill.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby Skatingpen on Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:08 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
Skatingpen wrote:Guys, while I love your never ending attempt to fix this team, there are way to many issues that any trade will fix

You are correct. No one trade or two trades that will fix the issues, but, one or two trades, combined with increased effort, can turn things around.

It's kind of interesting to me, and I didn't do it on purpose, that 3 of the trade targets I mentioned were all guys I thought they should have went after last year....Grabner and Bozak, and to a lesser extent, Athanisiou. There was mutual interest in Grabner, I know that for sure. The money he got is less than Bryan Rust and Carl Hagelin. So, not sure why it didn't work out. Only thing I can think of is at the time, Rutherford was so attached to Rust and wouldn't move Hagelin there was no room for Grabner. Also recall, Penguins had heavy interest in Domi, but reportedly wouldn't part with Rust and/or Simon.

Imagine this to start the season:

Guentzel-Crosby-Grabner
Domi-Malkin-Hornqvist
Hagelin-Brassard-Kessel
Sheahan-Cullen-Sprong
xGrant

It still wouldn't have solved the Cullen mistake, but that lineup adds youth, skill and speed, instead of adding age and not much skill.


Agree
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby Malkintent on Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:19 am

No way the Pens don't have better options for Seattle to draft than Johnson.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby ville5 on Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:35 am

Grant should only be up as a 13th forward when injuries occur. Cullen should get around 1 game off every 3. I think Teddy Blueger deserves a shot. He should be able to provide some much needed hunger and energy at the least. And hopefully some secondary scoring. If Brassard can't get things going in a week or so, it's time to maybe move on.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby stonewizard51 on Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:34 am

IMHO we're seeing the effects of all those #1 draft picks given up for rentals that didn't work out. Lots of older players and not a lot of depth and the depth they have aren't getting a chance to prove themselves at the NHL level. Blueger is a good example.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby murphydump55 on Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:22 am

Malkintent wrote:No way the Pens don't have better options for Seattle to draft than Johnson.


But he has lots of hits and is nasty! And that’s why the Pens went out to get him. Plus we have Gonchar to fix his 13 year career! He’s just what this team needs! Just go back and read! We don’t know anything and GMJR knows all and doesn’t make any mistakes! Look at the YouTube links people posted of him being mean and hitting!

The guy sucks and I along with many others said it from the start. Only 4 more years to go!
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby Malkintent on Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:29 am

murphydump55 wrote:
Malkintent wrote:No way the Pens don't have better options for Seattle to draft than Johnson.


But he has lots of hits and is nasty! And that’s why the Pens went out to get him. Plus we have Gonchar to fix his 13 year career! He’s just what this team needs! Just go back and read! We don’t know anything and GMJR knows all and doesn’t make any mistakes! Look at the YouTube links people posted of him being mean and hitting!

The guy sucks and I along with many others said it from the start. Only 4 more years to go!

I'm right there with you. I hated this signing since it was rumored. After all of JR's talk about not wanting to give out term so he didn't handcuff himself when it came to resigning players, I can't believe he gave this bum 5 YEARS.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby murphydump55 on Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:36 am

With the Blues reeling, would they move Parayko? Huge, slick skating, RH shot. He isn’t without his warts either but the upside is there. The problem is his contract. I’d move Maatta for him, but assume there would be more moving parts and/or money.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby ville5 on Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:48 am

murphydump55 wrote:
Malkintent wrote:No way the Pens don't have better options for Seattle to draft than Johnson.


But he has lots of hits and is nasty! And that’s why the Pens went out to get him. Plus we have Gonchar to fix his 13 year career! He’s just what this team needs! Just go back and read! We don’t know anything and GMJR knows all and doesn’t make any mistakes! Look at the YouTube links people posted of him being mean and hitting!

The guy sucks and I along with many others said it from the start. Only 4 more years to go!

Please do go back and read.
The guy that posted the youtube videos, me, never once said it was a good signing.
What I said, in the post right before the videos, was the first time he flattens Wilson like the vids, he'll be worth every penny.
But nice try.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby ville5 on Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:50 am

Good Lord. Skinner looking for 8 years at $9-$9.5 million???
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Should clarify. That's what he's seeking to not go to the open market.
Last edited by ville5 on Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby thehockeyguru on Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:58 am

murphydump55 wrote:With the Blues reeling, would they move Parayko? Huge, slick skating, RH shot. He isn’t without his warts either but the upside is there. The problem is his contract. I’d move Maatta for him, but assume there would be more moving parts and/or money.


I'd love Parayko. I can't see the Blues moving him.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby thehockeyguru on Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:03 am

ville5 wrote:
murphydump55 wrote:
Malkintent wrote:No way the Pens don't have better options for Seattle to draft than Johnson.


But he has lots of hits and is nasty! And that’s why the Pens went out to get him. Plus we have Gonchar to fix his 13 year career! He’s just what this team needs! Just go back and read! We don’t know anything and GMJR knows all and doesn’t make any mistakes! Look at the YouTube links people posted of him being mean and hitting!

The guy sucks and I along with many others said it from the start. Only 4 more years to go!

Please do go back and read.
The guy that posted the youtube videos, me, never once said it was a good signing.
What I said, in the post right before the videos, was the first time he flattens Wilson like the vids, he'll be worth every penny.
But nice try.


I think that's the part that is infuriating a bit, I can't recall one person in the media let alone on this board who was of the opinion that the Pens were smart to sign JJ. Everyone said it was a terrible move and hated the idea except our GM.

Moving JJ will take a miracle
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby murphydump55 on Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:25 am

ville5 wrote:
murphydump55 wrote:
Malkintent wrote:No way the Pens don't have better options for Seattle to draft than Johnson.


But he has lots of hits and is nasty! And that’s why the Pens went out to get him. Plus we have Gonchar to fix his 13 year career! He’s just what this team needs! Just go back and read! We don’t know anything and GMJR knows all and doesn’t make any mistakes! Look at the YouTube links people posted of him being mean and hitting!

The guy sucks and I along with many others said it from the start. Only 4 more years to go!

Please do go back and read.
The guy that posted the youtube videos, me, never once said it was a good signing.
What I said, in the post right before the videos, was the first time he flattens Wilson like the vids, he'll be worth every penny.
But nice try.


Maybe I wasn’t pertaining to you? But nice try.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby FLPensFan on Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:34 am

stonewizard51 wrote:IMHO we're seeing the effects of all those #1 draft picks given up for rentals that didn't work out. Lots of older players and not a lot of depth and the depth they have aren't getting a chance to prove themselves at the NHL level. Blueger is a good example.

I'm really not so sure all those #1's matter as much as people think. With them being late round picks, they have a much lower success rate. Rutherford actually has a pretty good habit of trading for former #1 picks: Cole, Oleksiak, Johnson, Brassard, Kessel, Sheahan, Perron, Pearson....these are all players Rutherford acquired at some point, and they are all former 1st round picks. Much easier to let someone else take the chance, do the development, and then bring in the talent.

Plus, no sure bet that Sullivan would play said 1st round picks.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby ville5 on Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:36 am

murphydump55 wrote:
ville5 wrote:
murphydump55 wrote:
Malkintent wrote:No way the Pens don't have better options for Seattle to draft than Johnson.


But he has lots of hits and is nasty! And that’s why the Pens went out to get him. Plus we have Gonchar to fix his 13 year career! He’s just what this team needs! Just go back and read! We don’t know anything and GMJR knows all and doesn’t make any mistakes! Look at the YouTube links people posted of him being mean and hitting!

The guy sucks and I along with many others said it from the start. Only 4 more years to go!

Please do go back and read.
The guy that posted the youtube videos, me, never once said it was a good signing.
What I said, in the post right before the videos, was the first time he flattens Wilson like the vids, he'll be worth every penny.
But nice try.


Maybe I wasn’t pertaining to you? But nice try.

Only 1 person posted youtube in the thread.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby FLPensFan on Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:37 am

murphydump55 wrote:With the Blues reeling, would they move Parayko? Huge, slick skating, RH shot. He isn’t without his warts either but the upside is there. The problem is his contract. I’d move Maatta for him, but assume there would be more moving parts and/or money.

I'd say probably not, just because after Pietrangelo and Parayko, I don't think they have much else on defense. J-Bo is closer to retirement than anything. Edmunson, Gunnarsson, Schmaltz, Bortozzo....those guys are ok but not high end talent, and they don't have much in the minors either. I think if they make a move, it would be a forward or in goal.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby stonewizard51 on Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:49 am

FLPensFan wrote:
stonewizard51 wrote:IMHO we're seeing the effects of all those #1 draft picks given up for rentals that didn't work out. Lots of older players and not a lot of depth and the depth they have aren't getting a chance to prove themselves at the NHL level. Blueger is a good example.

I'm really not so sure all those #1's matter as much as people think. With them being late round picks, they have a much lower success rate. Rutherford actually has a pretty good habit of trading for former #1 picks: Cole, Oleksiak, Johnson, Brassard, Kessel, Sheahan, Perron, Pearson....these are all players Rutherford acquired at some point, and they are all former 1st round picks. Much easier to let someone else take the chance, do the development, and then bring in the talent.

Plus, no sure bet that Sullivan would play said 1st round picks.

Yeah I get that part. It was just frustrating to watch Shero give away picks for rentals that for one reason or another didn't work out. IMHO the worst one being Ignla and Disco playing him on left wing. Ugh !!
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby GSdrums87 on Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:49 am

FLPensFan wrote:
murphydump55 wrote:With the Blues reeling, would they move Parayko? Huge, slick skating, RH shot. He isn’t without his warts either but the upside is there. The problem is his contract. I’d move Maatta for him, but assume there would be more moving parts and/or money.

I'd say probably not, just because after Pietrangelo and Parayko, I don't think they have much else on defense. J-Bo is closer to retirement than anything. Edmunson, Gunnarsson, Schmaltz, Bortozzo....those guys are ok but not high end talent, and they don't have much in the minors either. I think if they make a move, it would be a forward or in goal.

Vince Dunn is the real deal. He's on their top PP as well.
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby FLPensFan on Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:00 am

GSdrums87 wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
murphydump55 wrote:With the Blues reeling, would they move Parayko? Huge, slick skating, RH shot. He isn’t without his warts either but the upside is there. The problem is his contract. I’d move Maatta for him, but assume there would be more moving parts and/or money.

I'd say probably not, just because after Pietrangelo and Parayko, I don't think they have much else on defense. J-Bo is closer to retirement than anything. Edmunson, Gunnarsson, Schmaltz, Bortozzo....those guys are ok but not high end talent, and they don't have much in the minors either. I think if they make a move, it would be a forward or in goal.

Vince Dunn is the real deal. He's on their top PP as well.

Yeah, I forget about him because there are two Vince Dunns and I always mix them up.....the scrub we picked up along with Brassard who is currently in the ECHL, and the good Dunn who plays for STL. :)
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Re: Shaking up the Penguins, Part 2

Postby murphydump55 on Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:00 am

thehockeyguru wrote:
ville5 wrote:
murphydump55 wrote:
Malkintent wrote:No way the Pens don't have better options for Seattle to draft than Johnson.


But he has lots of hits and is nasty! And that’s why the Pens went out to get him. Plus we have Gonchar to fix his 13 year career! He’s just what this team needs! Just go back and read! We don’t know anything and GMJR knows all and doesn’t make any mistakes! Look at the YouTube links people posted of him being mean and hitting!

The guy sucks and I along with many others said it from the start. Only 4 more years to go!

Please do go back and read.
The guy that posted the youtube videos, me, never once said it was a good signing.
What I said, in the post right before the videos, was the first time he flattens Wilson like the vids, he'll be worth every penny.
But nice try.


I think that's the part that is infuriating a bit, I can't recall one person in the media let alone on this board who was of the opinion that the Pens were smart to sign JJ. Everyone said it was a terrible move and hated the idea except our GM.

Moving JJ will take a miracle


Maybe not in the mainstream media, but a lot of writers/bloggers on twitter with large followings were on board with the signing. Sure you could say they don't know their @ss from a hole in the ground, but many actually do know hockey, they were just wrong. lol Was Mark Madden on board? I don't remember because I don't follow him.

As for this board?

1 season ago Johnson played 82 games and was 5-18-23 and was a +23.

He still has skill and grit. He has never played on a team like this before with this much talent. It’s not like the cap hit is $6mill. Could be a bargain if he “gets to his game”. :)


One thing to take into account....that fancy advanced stats cannot....The man has been playing how many years now with this financial/family crisis over his head? One would think that with a new longterm contract he would be freed from the family/bankruptcy issues. Add to that, that he is coming to a first class organization where one of his best friends is team captain....can you say rejuvenated!

Similar to Murray losing his dad this season...there is a human element to the real game, not capology fantasy hockey.

Give the guy a chance.


Johnson would be solid addition, he is gritty defensman and blocks a lot of shots.. but he is also known to be blind on D a lot :)


For god sakes people give the guy 20 games before you crucify him. He isn't even a member of of this squad yet. This is nauseating. You put a seed in a radioactive environment it grows weak. Put it in a warm humid environment the seed flourishes. I don't really give a flying crap where he has played what he has done this is a new environment unlike anything before. Can we wait and see what is going to happen. Heaven forbid you ever can transplanted to a new job and people think of you this way.


So we get a talented guy to play bottom pair, and it fits our cap well. the term is a cost of doing business, and will be handled down the road.


I'm excited about the JJ signing.


I like the signing a lot


After thinking on it more, I think Jack will be fine in Pittsburgh. He'll play a lesser role with much less pressure than he's used to. He's always been an athletic, physical player and he's not hurting for motivation.


Passed the Sullivan, Gonchar and JR eye test. Good enough for me.


Guess we’ll see, Johnson is much better than hunwick and always was. He will be good here.


I guess I just disagree with all negative Jonhson comments. I see all the advanced stats posted on here, but I’m looking at his talent, skating ability and expecting the issues he’s experienced will be corrected by Gonch and the rest of the staff.


That was on a quick skim, it was one after the other. There's plenty of others out there defending him in their subtle ways. The point being, there are people on here that liked the signing and think he's a good player.
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