OK, let's blow it up

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Re: OK, let's blow it up

Postby pens_CT on Mon May 13, 2019 2:49 pm

Pensfan4life8771 wrote:https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/1165184

So something like this maybe?


If the goal of these moves is to get the Pens into the 2020 draft lottery, congratulations these moves will accomplish that goal.
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Re: OK, let's blow it up

Postby Jim on Mon May 13, 2019 3:15 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
Jim wrote:I can't wait for the season to start so that whoever is traded is traded and I don't have to see any more idiotic Kessel trade suggestions.


If you had to bet, are you saying Kessel isn't traded this offseason?

I think it's a bad move to trade him, but I think it's more likely hes traded than not.


I think that for $6.8M it is basically flat out stupid to trade him. It doesn't mean that I think that he 100% won't get traded though. Everyone should be available for the right price. FOR THE RIGHT PRICE.

However, to my comment above... come the start of the season whoever is traded is traded, that includes Kessel. He is either gone and the idiotic trade suggestions naturally stop, or he is still here and someone else has been traded and therefore (hopefully) people will stop trying to trade him. (at least the majority) Either way something will have happened and we can move on.
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Re: OK, let's blow it up

Postby dark_forces on Mon May 13, 2019 6:34 pm

Would anyone be surprised if Jim didn't really do much this offseason other than dealing Maatta for a prospect/cap space and Jarry for a draft pick and essentially brings back a very similar team that we saw in April?
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Re: OK, let's blow it up

Postby KG on Mon May 13, 2019 8:23 pm

dark_forces wrote:Would anyone be surprised if Jim didn't really do much this offseason other than dealing Maatta for a prospect/cap space and Jarry for a draft pick and essentially brings back a very similar team that we saw in April?


I would be very surprised if more then that isn’t done. You can’t have an inconsistent regular season and then get swept by the Islanders in the first round and not expect significant changes to be made.
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Re: OK, let's blow it up

Postby thehockeyguru on Mon May 13, 2019 8:43 pm

Jim wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
Jim wrote:I can't wait for the season to start so that whoever is traded is traded and I don't have to see any more idiotic Kessel trade suggestions.


If you had to bet, are you saying Kessel isn't traded this offseason?

I think it's a bad move to trade him, but I think it's more likely hes traded than not.


I think that for $6.8M it is basically flat out stupid to trade him. It doesn't mean that I think that he 100% won't get traded though. Everyone should be available for the right price. FOR THE RIGHT PRICE.

However, to my comment above... come the start of the season whoever is traded is traded, that includes Kessel. He is either gone and the idiotic trade suggestions naturally stop, or he is still here and someone else has been traded and therefore (hopefully) people will stop trying to trade him. (at least the majority) Either way something will have happened and we can move on.


I understand your point and I agree with your premise, but it seems like Sullivan hates him. I just have a feeling we will see a Kessel trade this offseason and he'll be moved for less than market value. I hope I'm wrong.
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Re: OK, let's blow it up

Postby Jim on Mon May 13, 2019 10:38 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
Jim wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
Jim wrote:I can't wait for the season to start so that whoever is traded is traded and I don't have to see any more idiotic Kessel trade suggestions.


If you had to bet, are you saying Kessel isn't traded this offseason?

I think it's a bad move to trade him, but I think it's more likely hes traded than not.


I think that for $6.8M it is basically flat out stupid to trade him. It doesn't mean that I think that he 100% won't get traded though. Everyone should be available for the right price. FOR THE RIGHT PRICE.

However, to my comment above... come the start of the season whoever is traded is traded, that includes Kessel. He is either gone and the idiotic trade suggestions naturally stop, or he is still here and someone else has been traded and therefore (hopefully) people will stop trying to trade him. (at least the majority) Either way something will have happened and we can move on.


I understand your point and I agree with your premise, but it seems like Sullivan hates him. I just have a feeling we will see a Kessel trade this offseason and he'll be moved for less than market value. I hope I'm wrong.


I'm all for moving the coach and his horrible decision making. Plus, he obviously doesn't see eye to eye with the GM and ownership. People keep moving Kessel because of not getting along with the coach... we'll the coach doesn't seem to get along with anyone. Remove the problem.
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Re: OK, let's blow it up

Postby Ericf on Mon May 13, 2019 10:50 pm

Jim wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
Jim wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
Jim wrote:I can't wait for the season to start so that whoever is traded is traded and I don't have to see any more idiotic Kessel trade suggestions.


If you had to bet, are you saying Kessel isn't traded this offseason?

I think it's a bad move to trade him, but I think it's more likely hes traded than not.


I think that for $6.8M it is basically flat out stupid to trade him. It doesn't mean that I think that he 100% won't get traded though. Everyone should be available for the right price. FOR THE RIGHT PRICE.

However, to my comment above... come the start of the season whoever is traded is traded, that includes Kessel. He is either gone and the idiotic trade suggestions naturally stop, or he is still here and someone else has been traded and therefore (hopefully) people will stop trying to trade him. (at least the majority) Either way something will have happened and we can move on.


I understand your point and I agree with your premise, but it seems like Sullivan hates him. I just have a feeling we will see a Kessel trade this offseason and he'll be moved for less than market value. I hope I'm wrong.


I'm all for moving the coach and his horrible decision making. Plus, he obviously doesn't see eye to eye with the GM and ownership. People keep moving Kessel because of not getting along with the coach... we'll the coach doesn't seem to get along with anyone. Remove the problem.


Can’t like this enough...why is the coach assumed to stay and the core players who don’t “buy in” on the trade bait list? Every coach’s message gets stale. He’s been here four years. If Geno, Phil, Letang or whoever are tuning him out—and it’s clearly more than one player—why does he get a free pass? Thank him for the Cups but he’s not winning more here if the team’s best players disagree with him.
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Re: OK, let's blow it up

Postby Humperdink on Tue May 14, 2019 7:59 am

Jim wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
Jim wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
Jim wrote:I can't wait for the season to start so that whoever is traded is traded and I don't have to see any more idiotic Kessel trade suggestions.


If you had to bet, are you saying Kessel isn't traded this offseason?

I think it's a bad move to trade him, but I think it's more likely hes traded than not.


I think that for $6.8M it is basically flat out stupid to trade him. It doesn't mean that I think that he 100% won't get traded though. Everyone should be available for the right price. FOR THE RIGHT PRICE.

However, to my comment above... come the start of the season whoever is traded is traded, that includes Kessel. He is either gone and the idiotic trade suggestions naturally stop, or he is still here and someone else has been traded and therefore (hopefully) people will stop trying to trade him. (at least the majority) Either way something will have happened and we can move on.


I understand your point and I agree with your premise, but it seems like Sullivan hates him. I just have a feeling we will see a Kessel trade this offseason and he'll be moved for less than market value. I hope I'm wrong.


I'm all for moving the coach and his horrible decision making. Plus, he obviously doesn't see eye to eye with the GM and ownership. People keep moving Kessel because of not getting along with the coach... we'll the coach doesn't seem to get along with anyone. Remove the problem.


My thoughts exactly. Say good bye to Sully. He and his stubbornness have worn out his welcome with me. Hey, the Sabres are looking for a coach.
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Re: OK, let's blow it up

Postby lemieuxReturns on Tue May 14, 2019 8:22 am

I am at the same point most are here as well. I like Sully, and think he could be here long term BUT if the star players are not down with his message then the decision is easy... Sully goes. I feel the same way with JR as well. JR goes wayyyy before Geno goes. Not even a discussion as far as I am concerned.
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Re: OK, let's blow it up

Postby KG on Tue May 14, 2019 8:46 am

I'm surprised we haven't heard at least rumbles of Sully not being back. The fact they are talking about moving Geno/Phil/Letang shows you what the organization thinks of Sully. Or at least what JR thinks of Sully.
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Re: OK, let's blow it up

Postby Ericf on Tue May 14, 2019 9:31 am

KG wrote:I'm surprised we haven't heard at least rumbles of Sully not being back. The fact they are talking about moving Geno/Phil/Letang shows you what the organization thinks of Sully. Or at least what JR thinks of Sully.


Exactly. That JR elevates Sully over his star players—remember his after season quote where he listed Sid, Murray and Sully as his centerpieces moving forward—tells you how out of touch he or the FO is. The coach doesn’t make the players. Very scared for this team with JR and Sully at the helm for the next X years
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Re: OK, let's blow it up

Postby pens_CT on Tue May 14, 2019 9:34 am

lemieuxReturns wrote:I am at the same point most are here as well. I like Sully, and think he could be here long term BUT if the star players are not down with his message then the decision is easy... Sully goes. I feel the same way with JR as well. JR goes wayyyy before Geno goes. Not even a discussion as far as I am concerned.


I don’t know maybe it’s my cynical view of the world but when you have the “core” of this team on its fourth coach, maybe it’s time for them to take responsibility for last season and play a style which has been proven to work (two cups). I’m tired of changing coaches because some members of the “core” feel it’s too hard to play the coach’s system. If they don’t like it’s time to trade some of them.
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Re: OK, let's blow it up

Postby Daniel on Tue May 14, 2019 9:51 am

Ericf wrote:
KG wrote:I'm surprised we haven't heard at least rumbles of Sully not being back. The fact they are talking about moving Geno/Phil/Letang shows you what the organization thinks of Sully. Or at least what JR thinks of Sully.


Exactly. That JR elevates Sully over his star players—remember his after season quote where he listed Sid, Murray and Sully as his centerpieces moving forward—tells you how out of touch he or the FO is. The coach doesn’t make the players. Very scared for this team with JR and Sully at the helm for the next X years


I think what makes it worse is JR seemingly not getting Sullivan players that fit his system. He's praising the coach while at the same time retarding his ability to coach to the scheme that he wants to coach to. Frankly, with all the discussion of who goes JR tops the list.
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Re: OK, let's blow it up

Postby Pruezy11881 on Tue May 14, 2019 9:56 am

pens_CT wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:I am at the same point most are here as well. I like Sully, and think he could be here long term BUT if the star players are not down with his message then the decision is easy... Sully goes. I feel the same way with JR as well. JR goes wayyyy before Geno goes. Not even a discussion as far as I am concerned.


I don’t know maybe it’s my cynical view of the world but when you have the “core” of this team on its fourth coach, maybe it’s time for them to take responsibility for last season and play a style which has been proven to work (two cups). I’m tired of changing coaches because some members of the “core” feel it’s too hard to play the coach’s system. If they don’t like it’s time to trade some of them.

I'm with you on this.
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Re: OK, let's blow it up

Postby FLPensFan on Tue May 14, 2019 10:04 am

KG wrote:I'm surprised we haven't heard at least rumbles of Sully not being back. The fact they are talking about moving Geno/Phil/Letang shows you what the organization thinks of Sully. Or at least what JR thinks of Sully.

I'm not. Rutherford is as dedicated to Sullivan as Shero was to Bylsma. And at some point, that dedication to Sullivan may end up costing him his job. I'm not at the point where I think Sullivan needs to go. I thought I started seeing some of that Bylsma stubbornness creeping in to Sullivan last season early on, but he hasn't gone full Disco yet.

In my job, I often have to look at things from both sides. Sullivan made some strange decisions at times this season, but, I think we all need to ask ourselves why? Sullivan had never been a massive line juggler in his past 2 and a half years, and yet this season, he was Michel Thierrien on steroids. I personally think this was because there were multiple people slumping and another good portion of the roster not executing on a nightly basis. Another reason could be, he didn't think he had the right pieces to make things work.

I'm just not one that thinks the coach needs to be uprooted every 2-3 years to be successful. If the same core is burning through coaches....maybe your coaches aren't the problem. And right now, the only real people that may have clashed a bit with Sullivan this season, to my knowledge, were Phil and Geno. I believe both (but don't quote me 100% because I can't keep track anymore) were have said to be flat out insubordinate (refusing to play the system, talking back, etc) to the coaching staff. I have never heard anything of Letang not getting along with the coach, just that they weren't happy with some of his decision making.

So, to be blunt.....we have a guy in Kessel who has a pretty long history of being difficult to coach, reportedly being difficult to coach. Then you have Geno, who has never really had issues with coaches in the past that I am aware of. Where is the rest of the team tuning Sully out or not liking the coach? Not hearing anything about Sid, Hornqvist, Guentzel, Dumoulin, Schultz, Murray, Maatta.....guys that have been here almost the whole time under Sullivan....having issues.

If management believes in Sullivan's system, one that won them two Cups, then I don't see enough yet to make a change behind the bench.

I question ownership and Rutherford right now more than I question Sullivan. Why ownership?

--I've tried a few times in vain to find the article or chat, but I recall seeing in multiple places that the decision to acquire Ryan Reaves came from above Rutherford's head....which leaves really only Morehouse, Burkle, and Lemieux.

--I understand letting your GM make decisions, and not getting involved in what seem like non-major decisions, but, there were pages and pages and pages AND PAGES of data showing that Jack Johnson was not a good player. Somebody in the organization should have had enough sense not to sign him. It's a downright critical failure for this team to have signed him for a 5 year deal. The data was there to say don't sign him. If you want to buck that data and take a risk, fine. But FIVE YEARS is HIGH RISK, LOW REWARD. I could live with 1-2 years. Show me the data is wrong and you can turn this thing around. He's shown in 1 year the data isn't wrong. Now what do you do for these next 4 years? What semi-valuable asset are you going to have to give up with Johnson to move him off the roster?

--I love Crosby. I love Malkin. I really like Letang. Phil ain't so bad. Neither is Hornqvist.....but, root for the crest on the front 99% of the time more than the nameplate on the back. Ownership can't stay in love with all these players that they hang onto them too long. They are all in their 30's. Unless you want to move this team into some dark days in a few years (and it can be avoided), they need to move some of these guys sooner rather than later. It's a business, not a fan club.

--Finally, the Rutherford extension. Extend your GM, who has had two straight off-seasons of questionable deals, and, while were at it, let's extend the guy right in the middle of a stretch where the team lost 10 of 12 games played. :face:

Rutherford has made some good trades. The Hornqvist trade, the Kessel trade, the McCann/Bjugstad trade, acquiring Schultz, acquiring Pettersson, Daley for Scuderi, acquiring Hagelin. Those were all very good trades under his tenure, with the 1st 3 being the biggest ones. I'm not going to put the Brassard trade down as a horrible trade for Rutherford. I don't think there was any data out there that said he was going to turn into a pumpkin. It was a good, solid decision at the time, and seemed to be the right piece that the team needed. They didn't know the guy was going to pout and flat out suck. I'm not going to lament too much over Oskar Sundqvist going in the Reaves deal. The team had high hopes for Sundqvist, but, he had failed to earn a roster spot for 2 years. He had a solid AHL season, was brought up for 10 games, and looked lost. He rightfully had worn out his time in Pittsburgh. Good on him for turning it around in STL, but I don't think the Penguins made a bad move here either. The killer roster moves lately have been:
--Signing Hunwick. There wasn't a lot of data out there that said he was what GMJR thought he was.
--Trading Hunwick at the cost of Sheary. I'd much rather have Sheary over Simon. The cap space would have been nice but, that space went to.....
--Jack Johnson. Take a chance. Fine. But a 5 year deal isn't a chance, it's a sucker's bet. And GMJR lost big time.
--Failure to start the 2017-2018 with viable 3C and 4C. Greg McKegg and Carter Rowney? Really?
--Signing Cullen and Grant. Rutherford over-reacts to not having enough centers going into 17-18 by signing too many centers and blocking the one center that might have provided the most help. Crosby, Malkin, Brassard, Sheahan, Cullen, Grant......then that Blueger kid stuck in the AHL behind them all.

This team better figure out its identity, and work on acquiring players that fit that identity. If that means they think Kessel or Hornqvist or Letang don't fit their identity, fine, but you better get solid players in return who do fit the identity. Right now, it's Johnson and Maatta and Gudbranson on the backend that seem to be more out of place for the team concept.
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Re: OK, let's blow it up

Postby Jim on Tue May 14, 2019 10:27 am

One of my problems with Rutherford this year was moving players with contracts that were ending for players with multi-year term left. With Guentzel's salary going up $5.5M the Pens needed salary to go out. Now they are already over the cap for next year. he put them in a harder spot.

They didn't trade Hunwick at the cost of Sheary. Much like I mentioned above about this summer, they needed to move out salary. Sheary's contract was not too far off of Hunwick's as far as bad for the team goes. Sheary certainly did nothing in Buffalo to show that he should have been held on to. Rutherford managed to move 2 not-good contracts for a pick.

While I would rather have just given a WBS guy a shot, I can't hold Grant against Rutherford at all. $650K for a guy coming off a 12g/24pt in 66 games season. It was basically a medium reward / zero risk signing. Grant dropped the ball and was sent packing for someone that went to WBS. I was more against the Hayes signing, but at least that was 2-way and therefore another guy for WBS.
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Re: OK, let's blow it up

Postby Cow_Master66 on Tue May 14, 2019 10:39 am

50% of me feels good that people are debating firing a coach who has won 2 cups in 4 years.

The other 50% is scared who may replace him. Of those who want him gone, and I'm definitely not one of them, where are the replacement suggestions? Just curious, who do you guys want to see take over the reigns??
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Re: OK, let's blow it up

Postby blurryhaze312 on Tue May 14, 2019 10:57 am

Ericf wrote:
KG wrote:I'm surprised we haven't heard at least rumbles of Sully not being back. The fact they are talking about moving Geno/Phil/Letang shows you what the organization thinks of Sully. Or at least what JR thinks of Sully.


Exactly. That JR elevates Sully over his star players—remember his after season quote where he listed Sid, Murray and Sully as his centerpieces moving forward—tells you how out of touch he or the FO is. The coach doesn’t make the players. Very scared for this team with JR and Sully at the helm for the next X years


Huh?

The team is doing exactly what they should be doing at this point in time that most other championship teams in the past 10 years have failed to do before it was too late and grew too old, leaving themselves stuck with their players that now make too much and aren't playing at the same level they used to.

Do I want Malkin or Letang to leave? No, but if it keeps the window with Sid rolling for another 5+ years or more, then I'm all in. Out of touch? Mario has first hand experience playing on team(s) that has had the strategy of hoping for luck in the draft...wouldn't you trust him to not want to be in that situation yet again? It's possible we won't get even value for a Malkin or Letang coming back, but maybe our value of them is inflated a bit? It's a gamble to keep the crew together for too long and risk becoming a Detroit/LA/Chicago. One that I'm not sure I want to endure.
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Re: OK, let's blow it up

Postby penny lane on Tue May 14, 2019 11:09 am

https://theathletic.com/
From Rob Rossi. Today he has an article regarding the core, Sullivan, trading Evgeni, and other penguin news.
have to sign J Schultz before anything with Letang done. Letang- they like & Kessel.
Sullivan has not lost the team- but it is possible that Sergei Gonchar will be more involved with the power play. ??
Core- GM Rutherford includes McGann and Bjugstad. I would not say core , but not looking to trade so soon. ?

we’ve heard that Crosby was not pleased with the Malkin trade speculation. That alone was probably reason enough for what had been a hot topic to cool considerably over the past couple of weeks.


Reads like GM Rutherford and the Coach need to be more united and send out the 1 voice. Also, the GM too likes his team, but is disgusted by their last 4 games. Who knows who he deals?

Doesn't even mention Maatta- a given he will be traded ? In 2 years, they will need a defenseman like Oli.
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Re: OK, let's blow it up

Postby FLPensFan on Tue May 14, 2019 11:10 am

Jim wrote:One of my problems with Rutherford this year was moving players with contracts that were ending for players with multi-year term left. With Guentzel's salary going up $5.5M the Pens needed salary to go out. Now they are already over the cap for next year. he put them in a harder spot.

They didn't trade Hunwick at the cost of Sheary. Much like I mentioned above about this summer, they needed to move out salary. Sheary's contract was not too far off of Hunwick's as far as bad for the team goes. Sheary certainly did nothing in Buffalo to show that he should have been held on to. Rutherford managed to move 2 not-good contracts for a pick.

While I would rather have just given a WBS guy a shot, I can't hold Grant against Rutherford at all. $650K for a guy coming off a 12g/24pt in 66 games season. It was basically a medium reward / zero risk signing. Grant dropped the ball and was sent packing for someone that went to WBS. I was more against the Hayes signing, but at least that was 2-way and therefore another guy for WBS.

I can agree with you on the Hunwick/Sheary stuff.

If Rutherford somehow managed to move Johnson this offseason, I am OK at keeping Gudbranson for 1 more year. Rather him at 4M for 1 more than Johnson for 4 more years at only 750K less. I believe Gudbranson is the better player overall. More physical and better defensively. He's just not as good of a skater as Johnson, with lateral movement his main issue. Keeping both of these guys on the roster is a big, big problem.

I'm quite fine with McCann and Bjugstad adds as well. McCann was a cheap add. Some think Bjugstad is overpaid. If they play him in the right spot (which is 3C) and it works out, he's a bargain. Centers are typically paid more than wingers, so I'm OK with a 4.1M Bjugstad who can net 40-50 points, when we have Hornqvist in that same range making 5.3M.

While Johnson and Gudbranson are easily the two worst contracts on defense (with Maatta a close 3rd), Hornqvist hands down has the worst forward contract. Age, style of play, and now injuries make that Hornqvist contract look really, really bad. The original hope was it would hold up in years 1-3, and might be an issue in years 4 & 5. I think there is already a lot of concern after year 1.
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Re: OK, let's blow it up

Postby FLPensFan on Tue May 14, 2019 11:17 am

penny lane wrote:https://theathletic.com/
From Rob Rossi. Today he has an article regarding the core, Sullivan, trading Evgeni, and other penguin news.
have to sign J Schultz before anything with Letang done. Letang- they like & Kessel.
Sullivan has not lost the team- but it is possible that Sergei Gonchar will be more involved with the power play. ??
Core- GM Rutherford includes McGann and Bjugstad. I would not say core , but not looking to trade so soon. ?

we’ve heard that Crosby was not pleased with the Malkin trade speculation. That alone was probably reason enough for what had been a hot topic to cool considerably over the past couple of weeks.


Reads like GM Rutherford and the Coach need to be more united and send out the 1 voice. Also, the GM too likes his team, but is disgusted by their last 4 games. Who knows who he deals?

Doesn't even mention Maatta- a given he will be traded ? In 2 years, they will need a defenseman like Oli.

Going to go read this in a few, but just based on your notes:
--I'm not so sure about that "have to sign Schultz" narrative. He hasn't been bad, but, he also hasn't come close to that monster season he had when Letang was out...last year or during his limited time this year. The Penguins will make a huge mistake if they resign Schultz and give him a raise.

Core - I think if McCann has a strong full season with Pittsburgh, he is definitely part of the core at 22 years old.

Maatta - I'm indifferent. He's never played as well as his first few seasons, which makes me believe he just isn't a good fit for Sullivan's system. Again, Olli has done some good things here, but can't fall in love with the player. If he's not a fit here, find a cheaper option who is, because 8M is way too much to spend on your 3rd pairing defense (assuming Pettersson jumps up to 2nd pair).
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Re: OK, let's blow it up

Postby FLPensFan on Tue May 14, 2019 11:22 am

Dan Kingerski has an article today on Pittsburgh Hockey Now stating that the biggest mistake Rutherford made was not trading Phil Kessel over this past summer.

Kingerski claims trading Hagelin in season was the wrong core piece to trade, and Kessel should have went during the summer. Kingerski claims that several "middling" teams had made some interesting offers for Kessel at the draft, and that recent follow up with Penguins sources have said it definitely was not unanimous among Penguins management to keep Kessel this past summer.
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Re: OK, let's blow it up

Postby theblackarts on Tue May 14, 2019 11:34 am

FLPensFan wrote:Dan Kingerski has an article today on Pittsburgh Hockey Now stating that the biggest mistake Rutherford made was not trading Phil Kessel over this past summer.

Kingerski claims trading Hagelin in season was the wrong core piece to trade, and Kessel should have went during the summer. Kingerski claims that several "middling" teams had made some interesting offers for Kessel at the draft, and that recent follow up with Penguins sources have said it definitely was not unanimous among Penguins management to keep Kessel this past summer.


Couldn't agree more. Really hoping we move him at the draft. I'll miss a lot about Kessel but after watching the outright energy and grit shown by current playoff teams, we need several new, hungry pieces. Kessel is hardly the only offender but it'd be a good start. No idea what his stock is going to be after putting up career numbers but appearing to be asleep while doing so.
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Re: OK, let's blow it up

Postby thehockeyguru on Tue May 14, 2019 11:36 am

theblackarts wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Dan Kingerski has an article today on Pittsburgh Hockey Now stating that the biggest mistake Rutherford made was not trading Phil Kessel over this past summer.

Kingerski claims trading Hagelin in season was the wrong core piece to trade, and Kessel should have went during the summer. Kingerski claims that several "middling" teams had made some interesting offers for Kessel at the draft, and that recent follow up with Penguins sources have said it definitely was not unanimous among Penguins management to keep Kessel this past summer.


Couldn't agree more. Really hoping we move him at the draft. I'll miss a lot about Kessel but after watching the outright energy and grit shown by current playoff teams, we need several new, hungry pieces. Kessel is hardly the only offender but it'd be a good start. No idea what his stock is going to be after putting up career numbers but appearing to be asleep while doing so.


Curious if the offers were actually reasonable. I'm guessing they were low ball offers if a move wasnt made
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Re: OK, let's blow it up

Postby FLPensFan on Tue May 14, 2019 11:36 am

theblackarts wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Dan Kingerski has an article today on Pittsburgh Hockey Now stating that the biggest mistake Rutherford made was not trading Phil Kessel over this past summer.

Kingerski claims trading Hagelin in season was the wrong core piece to trade, and Kessel should have went during the summer. Kingerski claims that several "middling" teams had made some interesting offers for Kessel at the draft, and that recent follow up with Penguins sources have said it definitely was not unanimous among Penguins management to keep Kessel this past summer.


Couldn't agree more. Really hoping we move him at the draft. I'll miss a lot about Kessel but after watching the outright energy and grit shown by current playoff teams, we need several new, hungry pieces. Kessel is hardly the only offender but it'd be a good start. No idea what his stock is going to be after putting up career numbers but appearing to be asleep while doing so.

Here's the biggest issue, though.....of all the guys being thrown around the rumor mill as trade fodder (Malkin, Letang, Kessel, Hornqvist, Johnson, Maatta, Gudbranson), I think all but maybe Gudbranson (who turned his season around from VAN) have their trade value at about the lowest it can be right now.
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