Pens Roster 20-21 Based on some initial moves

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Re: Pens Roster 20-21 Based on some initial moves

Postby Jim on Mon Aug 03, 2020 3:54 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:It seems like the consensus is McCann will be back next season at 3C but man he's been unproductive. 0 goals in his last 24 games or something like that. I don't know how you pay him 3.5M a season.

There are 3 glaring weaknesses with this team that need addressed

The PP has never replaced Kessel
The 3rd line doesn't have any chemistry
JJ paired with anyone drags the bottom pairing down.


Consensus?
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Re: Pens Roster 20-21 Based on some initial moves

Postby pens_CT on Mon Aug 03, 2020 4:10 pm

Pensfan4life8771 wrote:Well Murray looked so bad last game in my opinion....and now he is starting game 2 so we will lose this series quick.


So we've lost the last seven playoffs games in a row, and we've scored a grand total of twelve goals in those games, but let's blame the issue on the goalie and a 3rd pairing defensemen. You can make the claim that Jarry has outplayed Murray this year, and that Johnson sucks (which he does), but if this team doesn't significantly improve on that 1.7 goals for average (over the last seven losses) it doesn't really matter who's in goal, or playing on the third paring, unless you plan to win games 1-0. That offensive failure starts with 87 and 71 and goes on down the lineup. People here might need to get used to the possibility that the championship window with 87 & 71 leading the charge is now closed.
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Re: Pens Roster 20-21 Based on some initial moves

Postby thehockeyguru on Mon Aug 03, 2020 4:21 pm

pens_CT wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
pens_CT wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:It seems like the consensus is McCann will be back next season at 3C but man he's been unproductive. 0 goals in his last 24 games or something like that. I don't know how you pay him 3.5M a season.

There are 3 glaring weaknesses with this team that need addressed

The PP has never replaced Kessel
The 3rd line doesn't have any chemistry
JJ paired with anyone drags the bottom pairing down.


I don't see McCann as the 3C or a center in general. Doesn't distribute the puck well enough, and isn't a good defensive player in my opinion. If he isn't scoring he brings nothing to this team, but they probably need to re-sign him because who else do you have to play that position unless they believe Rodriques is the answer at Center and they leave McCann at wing.


If Rodriques is the answer I question why he can't earn a spot right now?

I would rather play Lafferty there. If I'm Sullivan my 3rd line is McCann Lafferty Hornqvist. I'd sit Marleau tonight.


I don't see Lafferty as a Center, he is better at Wing. I would put Rodriques between McCann and Hornqvist. I'd put Lafferty on the 4th line in place of ZAR. Not sure what ZAR brings to the lineup, get someone with speed and hitting ability on the 4th line.


That's a fair point on Lafferty. I had to look at Rodrigues's stats to see how he is at faceoffs, 46% in a larger sample size with Buffalo and 52% in 7 games with the Pens.

I'm for trying anything different on the 4th line
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Re: Pens Roster 20-21 Based on some initial moves

Postby Wyopen on Mon Aug 03, 2020 4:25 pm

pens_CT wrote:
Pensfan4life8771 wrote:Well Murray looked so bad last game in my opinion....and now he is starting game 2 so we will lose this series quick.


So we've lost the last seven playoffs games in a row, and we've scored a grand total of twelve goals in those games, but let's blame the issue on the goalie and a 3rd pairing defensemen. You can make the claim that Jarry has outplayed Murray this year, and that Johnson sucks (which he does), but if this team doesn't significantly improve on that 1.7 goals for average (over the last seven losses) it doesn't really matter who's in goal, or playing on the third paring, unless you plan to win games 1-0. That offensive failure starts with 87 and 71 and goes on down the lineup. People here might need to get used to the possibility that the championship window with 87 & 71 leading the charge is now closed.


Excellent :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
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Re: Pens Roster 20-21 Based on some initial moves

Postby thehockeyguru on Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:04 pm

Wyopen wrote:
pens_CT wrote:
Pensfan4life8771 wrote:Well Murray looked so bad last game in my opinion....and now he is starting game 2 so we will lose this series quick.


So we've lost the last seven playoffs games in a row, and we've scored a grand total of twelve goals in those games, but let's blame the issue on the goalie and a 3rd pairing defensemen. You can make the claim that Jarry has outplayed Murray this year, and that Johnson sucks (which he does), but if this team doesn't significantly improve on that 1.7 goals for average (over the last seven losses) it doesn't really matter who's in goal, or playing on the third paring, unless you plan to win games 1-0. That offensive failure starts with 87 and 71 and goes on down the lineup. People here might need to get used to the possibility that the championship window with 87 & 71 leading the charge is now closed.


Excellent :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:


3-1 lead against the 24th best team in the league and they find a way to blow it.

There needs to be a total overhaul of this team.
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Re: Pens Roster 20-21 Based on some initial moves

Postby 100565 on Fri Aug 07, 2020 9:14 am

To me...

Sully has demonstrated an outstanding ability to coach young players. I mean young as in rookies-2nd (or 3rd) year players.

Sully has demonstrated that he is not good at coaching veterans and established NHL players.

Poulin, POJ, and a couple other young players (maybe Lafferty is one) need to be on next year's roster OR Sully needs to go. I believe all the injuries saved his job this year.

I think it is too late to blow up the core (Malkin, Sid, and Letang).
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Re: Pens Roster 20-21 Based on some initial moves

Postby Wyopen on Fri Aug 07, 2020 9:25 am

I really think it’s going to be extremely difficult for the Pens to get any kind of quality return for trades. With the number of FAs and a stagnant salary cap. The return for a Malkin or Letang will be mediocre at best. Let me suggest this, IF the Pens win the first overall pick, couldn’t they dangle out that pick with a “core” player and get a great return? I know I’m probably speaking anathema here but it’s just an idea.
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Re: Pens Roster 20-21 Based on some initial moves

Postby thehockeyguru on Fri Aug 07, 2020 9:46 am

Wyopen wrote:I really think it’s going to be extremely difficult for the Pens to get any kind of quality return for trades. With the number of FAs and a stagnant salary cap. The return for a Malkin or Letang will be mediocre at best. Let me suggest this, IF the Pens win the first overall pick, couldn’t they dangle out that pick with a “core” player and get a great return? I know I’m probably speaking anathema here but it’s just an idea.


Last season was the time to trade Malkin or Letang, both Malkin and Letang have 2 years left. So I'd keep them next season and then see if there are any takers with 1 year left.

Here is my to do list
1. Buyout JJ, 916.667k for 6 seasons isn't all that bad especially when the Pens will be in total rebuild mode in 3 years. If the buyout is too rich just bury him in the minors.
2. Move McCann, Bjugstad, and Hornqvist. I love Hornqvist but if he's not playing on Sid's RW he has no place in the bottom 6. The 3rd line needs a total makeover.
3. Trade MM for a 3C or RHD. Retooling the bottom pairing is a must.
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Re: Pens Roster 20-21 Based on some initial moves

Postby Skatingpen on Fri Aug 07, 2020 9:49 am

100565 wrote:To me...

Sully has demonstrated an outstanding ability to coach young players. I mean young as in rookies-2nd (or 3rd) year players.

Sully has demonstrated that he is not good at coaching veterans and established NHL players.

Poulin, POJ, and a couple other young players (maybe Lafferty is one) need to be on next year's roster OR Sully needs to go. I believe all the injuries saved his job this year.

I think it is too late to blow up the core (Malkin, Sid, and Letang).


Can’t coach established players????? What? They won back to back cups with the core of established players. We are getting a little crazy here now.......
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Re: Pens Roster 20-21 Based on some initial moves

Postby Pensfan4life8771 on Fri Aug 07, 2020 10:41 am

Well we know one thing for certain...Jarry is starting Game 4 which is an elimination game.

::Matt Murray starts to see the door::
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Re: Pens Roster 20-21 Based on some initial moves

Postby thehockeyguru on Fri Aug 07, 2020 10:46 am

Skatingpen wrote:
100565 wrote:To me...

Sully has demonstrated an outstanding ability to coach young players. I mean young as in rookies-2nd (or 3rd) year players.

Sully has demonstrated that he is not good at coaching veterans and established NHL players.

Poulin, POJ, and a couple other young players (maybe Lafferty is one) need to be on next year's roster OR Sully needs to go. I believe all the injuries saved his job this year.

I think it is too late to blow up the core (Malkin, Sid, and Letang).


Can’t coach established players????? What? They won back to back cups with the core of established players. We are getting a little crazy here now.......


Whats ironic is the Pens saw the need to get a guy like Kessel who can put up a Point Per Game as a PP specialist and 3rd liner. Kessel gave them real scoring depth then got rid of him without replacing his production. This team is in the same Pre-Kessel rut.

The solution? Find another Kessel, which is a lot easier said than done. Until then this team has no chance.
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Re: Pens Roster 20-21 Based on some initial moves

Postby Pensfan4life8771 on Fri Aug 07, 2020 11:39 am

Que the Alexis L music :D

Or we just don't sign any RFA's and sign Taylor Hall LOL
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Re: Pens Roster 20-21 Based on some initial moves

Postby Skatingpen on Fri Aug 07, 2020 12:34 pm

Wow if Murray gave up a goal like the one Bobrosky(sp) just did...... yikes....
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Re: Pens Roster 20-21 Based on some initial moves

Postby 100565 on Fri Aug 07, 2020 12:40 pm

Skatingpen wrote:
100565 wrote:To me...

Sully has demonstrated an outstanding ability to coach young players. I mean young as in rookies-2nd (or 3rd) year players.

Sully has demonstrated that he is not good at coaching veterans and established NHL players.

Poulin, POJ, and a couple other young players (maybe Lafferty is one) need to be on next year's roster OR Sully needs to go. I believe all the injuries saved his job this year.

I think it is too late to blow up the core (Malkin, Sid, and Letang).


Can’t coach established players????? What? They won back to back cups with the core of established players. We are getting a little crazy here now.......


A core of established players who gained motivation from young players performing at high levels. Guentzel, Rust, Sheary, Simon to name several were all rookies to 3rd year players during cup wins.

Sully's motivation tactics work on young guys, but not on experienced NHLers. See last two years: when injuries occur and toung players are playing, the team performed better.
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Re: Pens Roster 20-21 Based on some initial moves

Postby thehockeyguru on Fri Aug 07, 2020 1:11 pm

100565 wrote:
Skatingpen wrote:
100565 wrote:To me...

Sully has demonstrated an outstanding ability to coach young players. I mean young as in rookies-2nd (or 3rd) year players.

Sully has demonstrated that he is not good at coaching veterans and established NHL players.

Poulin, POJ, and a couple other young players (maybe Lafferty is one) need to be on next year's roster OR Sully needs to go. I believe all the injuries saved his job this year.

I think it is too late to blow up the core (Malkin, Sid, and Letang).


Can’t coach established players????? What? They won back to back cups with the core of established players. We are getting a little crazy here now.......


A core of established players who gained motivation from young players performing at high levels. Guentzel, Rust, Sheary, Simon to name several were all rookies to 3rd year players during cup wins.

Sully's motivation tactics work on young guys, but not on experienced NHLers. See last two years: when injuries occur and toung players are playing, the team performed better.


I dont agree. You leave out Kessel, Hagelin and Bonino as all huge contributors. None of them were rookies through 3rd year players.
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