SCP20 Game 4 vs Habs - Thoughts from the Morning After

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SCP20 Game 4 vs Habs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Penspal on Sat Aug 08, 2020 8:12 am

Pens los 2-0

- Fitting that the Habs would shutout the Pens. Teams are locking down the "high powered" offense and the Pens defense is not good enough to win. Both need fixing/overhaul
- This game came down to mistakes, Tanev's gaffe was the difference. Turbo had a decent seriesl, one of the better Pens in his limited time, but that gaffe will haunt him (certain Pens fans won't let him escape it)
- Having Sid and Tanger be interviewed so quickly after the loss, brutal. And with all due respect..."those questions were very thoughtless and pointless".
- There was no fire in this team
- Refs let thing slide late didn't they? Pens never really found "the line" that you need to play up to with respect to penalties. Teams that push the line tend to do better. This team was utterly Charmin soff
- Jarry looked okay, but his puck handling skills almost cost Pens game on one third period soft pass up the middle
- HCMS didn't make optimal line up calls, I think he's due for some of the criticism.
- Habs had injured guys who came back and led their team. Jake would be that guy for the Pens, he didn't look like he was back
- Goodbye Marleau, Sheary, Schultz, Riikola for sure. I suspect the turnover this summer to be very large
- Monday night got a whole lot more interesting
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Re: SCP20 Game 4 vs Habs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby midd on Sat Aug 08, 2020 8:44 am

HCMS is due for a lot of the criticism. Yes it's up to the players to perform but its up to the coach to do something about. With the series literally on the line, Sully does nothing to jump start the team. You have to try something during the game, right? Nope, he just rolls the same 4 lines. Hindisght is evil but why not put Tanev with Jake and Sid just to see if something happens. Move sheary to the third line and put McCann on the 4th.

His only change was scratch McCann for Lafferty for one game. Come on. Winning cups in your first two seasons seemed to have enlarge his ego. It seems that he's on the same path as Bylsma, unemployed.

The so called fans blame Murray and JJ. But this was a big turd by the team. They hoped to win based on skill alone. Well that never works out.

The series came down to sloppy play and alot of turnovers.
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Re: SCP20 Game 4 vs Habs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby OKpensfan247 on Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:39 am

I am surprised Sully has fallen to the same level as Bylsma in his last years with Pittsburgh. Stubborn and arrogant and favoring players that don’t deserve it. Sully’s success with tough decisions in 2016 and 2017 and even mostly 2018... his skill of knowing the pulse of the team... he has lost it. Guys like Johnson, Murray, and Sheary do not deserve the favoritism they got (cough... Craig Adams... cough cough), at the same time no longer developing young and new players aside from Marino who forced his playing time by making Johnson look good.

I want to see Sully go. Rex too. Martin and Gonchar maybe not.

I am undecided on Rutherford. I appreciate his aggressive style to go for it. Agree he has made worse decisions recently.

Agree all parties share blame in the lackluster effort in an elimination game, and winning about 1 playoff game in our last 10. Coaching staff is my primary blame with reasons above.

It is sad seeing our core look so slow (Sid, Geno, and Letang). Not sure if our identity can still be a speed game if we keep all 3.
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Re: SCP20 Game 4 vs Habs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby thehockeyguru on Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:48 am

OKpensfan247 wrote:I am surprised Sully has fallen to the same level as Bylsma in his last years with Pittsburgh. Stubborn and arrogant and favoring players that don’t deserve it. Sully’s success with tough decisions in 2016 and 2017 and even mostly 2018... his skill of knowing the pulse of the team... he has lost it. Guys like Johnson, Murray, and Sheary do not deserve the favoritism they got (cough... Craig Adams... cough cough), at the same time no longer developing young and new players aside from Marino who forced his playing time by making Johnson look good.

I want to see Sully go. Rex too. Martin and Gonchar maybe not.

I am undecided on Rutherford. I appreciate his aggressive style to go for it. Agree he has made worse decisions recently.

Agree all parties share blame in the lackluster effort in an elimination game, and winning about 1 playoff game in our last 10. Coaching staff is my primary blame with reasons above.

It is sad seeing our core look so slow (Sid, Geno, and Letang). Not sure if our identity can still be a speed game if we keep all 3.


I think you can keep all 3 but you need a total rebuild of the 3rd and 4th lines. Look at Chicago, Toews, Kane, and Keith aren't speedsters but the young guys are stepping up and contributing. The Pens don't have that option of going young.

Hornqvist, Bjugstad, McCann, ZAR all need to go
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Re: SCP20 Game 4 vs Habs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Durbano on Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:56 am

This postseason is nothing short of surreal.

The most successful era in Pens history is finished, and I have no complaints. Been a great run.
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Re: SCP20 Game 4 vs Habs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby OKpensfan247 on Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:05 am

thehockeyguru wrote:
I think you can keep all 3 but you need a total rebuild of the 3rd and 4th lines. Look at Chicago, Toews, Kane, and Keith aren't speedsters but the young guys are stepping up and contributing. The Pens don't have that option of going young.

Hornqvist, Bjugstad, McCann, ZAR all need to go


I hope you are right. I fear we now need some of the cap space sucked up by those 3 in order to bolster depth to carry their deteriorating play. Can’t believe Im typing that.

I forgot the 3rd and 4th lines. They were both pathetic in the playoffs. Second to Sully, the bottom 2 lines are the most disappointing. Power play pathetic-ness was close, but We were back to a 2 line team this year.

I appreciate Sully and Rutherford attempted to create a 4th line like NYI’s who could play higher minutes against teams’ top offensive players, do the dirty work and tough zone assignments, and free our offensive players for shifts against lower lines. It failed this year in playoffs. They were a liability and could not be trusted.

Personally, if we keep Hornqvist I think he is a 4th liner and kicks ZAR to the bench. Horny can still get PP time.
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Re: SCP20 Game 4 vs Habs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby RisslingsMissingTeeth on Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:25 am

I'm cracking up at these comments. Talk about not seeing the forest for the trees! Geno scored...let me check here....ZERO goals. We were shutout in a must win game 4. We have a lot of money tied up in Sid (33) and Geno (34). I've posted for the past several years how superstars see sharp fall offs in production and effectiveness after age 29. Jake has had to carry us in the playoffs and he just wasn't back to full form. The window has been closed for the past 2 years. Isles embarrassed us and the worst playoff team this year barely let us see the scoreboard.

Rebuild has to start now. Time for Geno to go while we can get anything for him. I personally woudn't give the Pens anything but some GM out there may be foolish enough to think he still has something in the tank. We need youth and speed period and good ole Jim traded away all our draft picks the past couple years.

The puck support system Sully wants doesn't work with old guys and that was obvious yesterday. Get him youth and speed and we can win again.

While I was typing this, Sheary fell down 8 more times.
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Re: SCP20 Game 4 vs Habs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby OKpensfan247 on Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:30 am

Lol at Sheary.

Yes these playoffs reminded us why we were not upset to see Sheary go a few years ago. If our top line did not score on the rush, Sheary was where o-zone cycles went to die.
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Re: SCP20 Game 4 vs Habs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby penny lane on Sat Aug 08, 2020 11:03 am

Experience does nothing without fast legs and a deep hunger. The GM was wrong to bring in Marleau and the coach was wrong to continue to play him. In a five game series Sullivan went in flat footed and never adjusted. The coach must play youth.

Coaching- Sid & Evgeni- Power play- their inability to admit they aren't as good as their media says.

What in Hades happened from Cranberry to Toronto?
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Re: SCP20 Game 4 vs Habs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby sjnhiils on Sat Aug 08, 2020 11:04 am

RisslingsMissingTeeth wrote:I'm cracking up at these comments. Talk about not seeing the forest for the trees! Geno scored...let me check here....ZERO goals. We were shutout in a must win game 4. We have a lot of money tied up in Sid (33) and Geno (34). I've posted for the past several years how superstars see sharp fall offs in production and effectiveness after age 29. Jake has had to carry us in the playoffs and he just wasn't back to full form. The window has been closed for the past 2 years. Isles embarrassed us and the worst playoff team this year barely let us see the scoreboard.

Rebuild has to start now. Time for Geno to go while we can get anything for him. I personally woudn't give the Pens anything but some GM out there may be foolish enough to think he still has something in the tank. We need youth and speed period and good ole Jim traded away all our draft picks the past couple years.

The puck support system Sully wants doesn't work with old guys and that was obvious yesterday. Get him youth and speed and we can win again.

While I was typing this, Sheary fell down 8 more times.

Speed alone does not guarantee success. They brought in McCann, Tanev, Zucker and Sheary and that hasn't seemed to be the answer. They need
guys that play a more rounded game the right way as well as a better mix of players. TB,Washington,Boston,NYI and Philly all have that!
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Re: SCP20 Game 4 vs Habs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Weegie on Sat Aug 08, 2020 11:11 am

Sadly it played out like most of us figured, they just don't have "it" anymore. They were a great team for years winning the Cup back to back which is not easy to do, but we saw last season them get swept in the playoffs and this past season they had that hot streak where they were beating everyone then went cold and struggled, then this pandemic hit and they picked up right where they left off, very cold, very empty of drive and desire for the most part, and this is how it ends.

It reminds me of the Denver Broncos, they won the Super Bowl back to back in the late 90's, were a great team, Elway retired, Terrell Davis got hurt, and they struggled and were not what they once were and then things got even worse. But no one on the Pens has retired from those Cup years that I recall, there were changes made, but they just have seem to run out of gas, drive, will, heart, whatever. Oh, there were some players who still had it and were hustling and trying their all, but overall collectively this team just didn't have it, they had glimpses of it but not enough and once Montreal realized it they just kept after them and playing hard and got the key goals and won.

The glory days were great but they are gone, this team looked like a shell of itself from a few years ago and will most likely have a much different look next season. But those Cup years sure were fun, weren't they?!
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Re: SCP20 Game 4 vs Habs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Antonio on Sat Aug 08, 2020 11:12 am

Durbano wrote:This postseason is nothing short of surreal.

The most successful era in Pens history is finished, and I have no complaints. Been a great run.

This 1000 percent. Cheers to the team for a great decade +.
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Re: SCP20 Game 4 vs Habs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby sirik71 on Sat Aug 08, 2020 11:51 am

Antonio wrote:
Durbano wrote:This postseason is nothing short of surreal.

The most successful era in Pens history is finished, and I have no complaints. Been a great run.

This 1000 percent. Cheers to the team for a great decade +.


To be honest don't know if the era is fully finished (always hoping when it comes to my beloved Pens :)) but up until now it has been a superb run! Yesterday there was obvious disappointment and there will be a lot of analyzing to do, luckily there are great people in this organization who will figure it all out. Today just want to thank the Pens for this year, a season filled with setbacks but yet a lot of very good hockey. The stop because of this terrible virus and then the getting back in training camp, going into the bubble and playing games in a weird setting. Unfortunately it was not to be but that happens in Hockey. Hope everyone stays safe and till next season, Lets Go Pens!
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Re: SCP20 Game 4 vs Habs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby IntangibleBeer on Sat Aug 08, 2020 11:54 am

That was another hard game to watch:
  • Pens looked like they just didn't want to be there.
  • Outworked, out-hustled in the corners and on the boards, again. :face:
  • PK was the only bright spot in the series. :thumb:
  • PP cost them the series. :thumbdown: :thumbdown:
  • I think these folks have overstayed their welcome: Recchi, Geno, Sheary, Shultz, Marleau, Johnson, ZAR, perhaps even Sullivan.

There needs to be some serious re-evaluation and major changes if this team is to be competitive again. The only bright spot is that with the playoff streak over, it's obvious that the pretending is over.
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Re: SCP20 Game 4 vs Habs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby lemieuxReturns on Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:18 pm

I for one am completely fine with the chance at a #1 overall pick versus limping through the qualifying round to the first round. Also, to put some things in perspective here, schools in my area have opened for 1 day and shut down after positive Covid results. 1 Day! There is a SIGNIFICANT chance that the playoffs do not get completed this year. SIGNIFICANT. The fact we are even playing hockey right now is amazing to me. Think about if the Pens had made it past Montreal and even made it past the 1st round and then a positive Covid result.... what then? I mean we are not talking about out-of-this-world hypotheticals here. I think when its all said and done, this is the best thing that could have happened. I love hockey. I love watching the Penguins play, but lets be real here. The entire country is essentially on lockdown in one way or the other and things are not getting better right now. Lets get that #1 pick!!!
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Re: SCP20 Game 4 vs Habs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Southern Fan on Sat Aug 08, 2020 1:08 pm

Penspal. You mentioned the Jarry pass up the middle. Couldn’t get a good view, but it looked like neither team had anyone near the center of the ice. Probably wasn’t as harmful as it looked, but it did look bad at first.

Thought Zucker wasn’t bad in the series. A good pickup for the next few years.

Did we win a single puck off the forecheck? Just dreadful.

Coaching was horrible. Twice they started with the McCann line with the Johnson-Schultz pairing after a tv timeout. Power play personnel out of position. It was clear Schultz couldn’t be effective on the power play. And what genius sends out Marleau with two minutes left in the game down 0-1. Plus, I think it was Benz who mentioned that the defensemen played their opposite side on offensive zone face offs to get the shot on a face off win and then when they won it, they didn’t shoot. Why bother?

Jarry good enough to live or die with him and DeSmith next year. They don’t have the cap space to sign him and Murray, and one of them will be exposed the following year in the Seattle draft.

Tanev made a mistake. it happens. Others could have cleaned it up. Not why they lost the series.

Boston and Caps will have fun in the real games, having to play Carolina or the Islanders. Flyers and Bolts have something to play for today because the winner will take out Montreal in 4 games. Not shocked if the Flyers win the Cup.
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Re: SCP20 Game 4 vs Habs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Hatrick on Sat Aug 08, 2020 2:51 pm

lemieuxReturns wrote:I for one am completely fine with the chance at a #1 overall pick versus limping through the qualifying round to the first round. Also, to put some things in perspective here, schools in my area have opened for 1 day and shut down after positive Covid results. 1 Day! There is a SIGNIFICANT chance that the playoffs do not get completed this year. SIGNIFICANT. The fact we are even playing hockey right now is amazing to me. Think about if the Pens had made it past Montreal and even made it past the 1st round and then a positive Covid result.... what then? I mean we are not talking about out-of-this-world hypotheticals here. I think when its all said and done, this is the best thing that could have happened. I love hockey. I love watching the Penguins play, but lets be real here. The entire country is essentially on lockdown in one way or the other and things are not getting better right now. Lets get that #1 pick!!!

They are in a bubble, a positive test is extremely unlikely or close to impossible. But I agree with everything else. Best case scenario was win cup as always, but losing to montreal was the second best case scenario because it lets us get a first round pick at all, plus a chance at that number one.
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Re: SCP20 Game 4 vs Habs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby mayday56 on Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:24 pm

I agree with Hatrick...plus the Stanley Cup this year is going to have an asterix so Get a decent 1st round pick, make a few trades, let some others walk and maybe 1 buyout and start fresh in November...lets go Pens !
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Re: SCP20 Game 4 vs Habs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Cow_Master66 on Sun Aug 09, 2020 12:30 pm

Will be interesting off season...Just my thoughts

Don't see Sully being fired under any circumstances during the off season. He had arguably his best performance this year considering what the team went through, so he's probably just starting to be able to see the hot seat...I would expect a semi-short leash next year, but he probably should be a Jack Adams finalist so canning him after the season doesn't seem likely (unless it comes from the top and the captain that they want a change).

Excited to see the Pens win the lottery on Monday!


I'll stick to my original thoughts that this season should have just been cancelled or it will just conclude with an asterisk....I'm fine with it being over and I felt almost nothing when they were eliminated....TBH I was kind of happy because I wanted to golf yesterday and playoff hockey on sloppy ice without fans does nothing for me.


This off season does have me a bit nervous because I don't see any way that this team moves into any type of rebuild. I think the core will be fully back and they will try to win a 4th cup over the next 2-3 seasons. With that mindset, there's potential for a lot of risky transactions to try to turn this team into a top contender next season. I can see a lot of future mortgaging over the next few months...
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Re: SCP20 Game 4 vs Habs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby penny lane on Sun Aug 09, 2020 12:49 pm

Image
Dear Craig Patrick~ go say a prayer again!
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Re: SCP20 Game 4 vs Habs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby pcmforless on Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:50 pm

Really felt like they just didn't want to be in the bubble and made it look close enough in the losses so they could head home to family. Starting to think now that even having a postseason wasn't a great idea. Wait 6 months to see hockey and it was over in a week :(
Losing 9 out of 10 postseason games is not acceptable, it's like as soon as they lost two in a row to Washington in 2018 they ran out of steam and then lost 4 in a row to an Islanders team that got swept in the next round and then 3 out of 4 to the Habs who will get swept in their next round.
About the only good that can come and not close the window and have them head off into mediocrity (like Detroit for a good bit of years after 2009) will be hitting that lottery pick and doing some housecleaning and maybe reinvigorate the team for a few more years of solid runs in the Crosby/Malkin era.
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Re: SCP20 Game 4 vs Habs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby penny lane on Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:05 am

Phil Bourque on a post game newsy show said he doesn't believe the Coach Sullivan message is being heard.
Talk about an honest response.
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Re: SCP20 Game 4 vs Habs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Pensfan4life8771 on Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:13 am

penny lane wrote:Phil Bourque on a post game newsy show said he doesn't believe the Coach Sullivan message is being heard.
Talk about an honest response.


If this is the true case than he has to go. You can not waste the final years of Sid/Malkin.

It may be good year to do it too. Gallant is available. Lavioette. Dare I say...Babcock?!
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