Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Forum for Pittsburgh Penguins-related messages.

Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:42 pm

KG wrote:Friedman speculating Pens will go after Domi, again. This off season. He said JR went after him a few years ago and went for again this last trade deadline.

I wouldn't mind having Domi at all, but, he's a center or LW. If he comes here, he's likely going to be the 3C, and, his numbers are going to go down or stay around where they are now. Domi put up his 72 points in 18-19 season as a 2nd line center. His production will drop as a 3C, which means his value will drop when it comes to resigning a new contract.

Domi is an RFA right now, and, after having a 72 point season and a 44 point season, I wouldn't doubt if his agent is trying to get him in the 6-7M range of salary. To sign him, I think you'd have to give him a 5 year deal at maybe 5M-5.5M. He'd be 30 when his contract is up. 5M is a lot for a 3C, however, if Malkin only plays out his current deal and then leaves for Russia (which is starting to seem like a bigger possibility), then Domi can slide up to be the 2C.

The other problem is, what do we have that Montreal would take for Domi. I could possibly see McCann plus a good prospect or 1st/2nd round pick, or maybe a straight Domi for Rust swap. The latter then leaves this team shorthanded on the RW.
FLPensFan
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 14,827
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:30 pm
Location: South Florida

Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby KG on Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:51 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
KG wrote:Friedman speculating Pens will go after Domi, again. This off season. He said JR went after him a few years ago and went for again this last trade deadline.

I wouldn't mind having Domi at all, but, he's a center or LW. If he comes here, he's likely going to be the 3C, and, his numbers are going to go down or stay around where they are now. Domi put up his 72 points in 18-19 season as a 2nd line center. His production will drop as a 3C, which means his value will drop when it comes to resigning a new contract.

Domi is an RFA right now, and, after having a 72 point season and a 44 point season, I wouldn't doubt if his agent is trying to get him in the 6-7M range of salary. To sign him, I think you'd have to give him a 5 year deal at maybe 5M-5.5M. He'd be 30 when his contract is up. 5M is a lot for a 3C, however, if Malkin only plays out his current deal and then leaves for Russia (which is starting to seem like a bigger possibility), then Domi can slide up to be the 2C.

The other problem is, what do we have that Montreal would take for Domi. I could possibly see McCann plus a good prospect or 1st/2nd round pick, or maybe a straight Domi for Rust swap. The latter then leaves this team shorthanded on the RW.


Maybe it's time the Pens start thinking about getting some more offensive depth and not rely on 87/71 so much. Start rolling 4 lines and play more as a team as the core ages. We all know they are getting older, and it's obvious the last couple of playoffs, they can't carry the team anymore.

I saw some were speculating Rust/Domi package. That would be a change. Problem is Rust is very good value cap wise, but he's not "young" anymore. Would think Montreal being a younger team would rather have McCann. I'm sure the Pens would have to add to the deal if McCann is their main piece.
KG
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 18,095
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:53 am
Location: NY

Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby Jim on Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:56 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
Jim wrote:What do scouts or assistant coaches make?


Scouts make 100k if they are lucky


It's meant as a bribe to get him to retire. His pay in a buyout would be $916,667 per year. Ugh.
Jim
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 18,568
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:18 pm
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby thehockeyguru on Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:00 pm

Jim wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
Jim wrote:What do scouts or assistant coaches make?


Scouts make 100k if they are lucky


It's meant as a bribe to get him to retire. His pay in a buyout would be $916,667 per year. Ugh.


I know what you're getting at. I dont see any way to get rid of him without taking an equally bad contract back via trade.
thehockeyguru
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 17,780
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:43 pm
Location: I'm 30 minutes away, I'll be there in 10.

Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:28 pm

Trade Letang, Hornqvist, Murray, McCann, Riikola, Bjugstad. Sorry, but I think as much as we WANT to trade Johnson, I don't see it happening.

With those trades, I'd like to get back a top 4 RD, a solid 3C, another "gritty" forward with size (but not a sloth), and maybe 2 prospects. These are just quick spitball trades. Not thinking each of these teams is going to accept, also understanding 3rd team may need involved for cap, etc, etc....but....

Letang for Kapanen and Mikhail Abramov (21 yr center who put up 35 goals, 76 points in Juniors this past season). 3rd team retains salary on Letang.
McCann, Riikola, and B/C prospect for Domi
Murray for Montour and a 2nd/3rd or B level prospect
Hornqvist somewhere for an NHL ready prospect and picks (Say, Colorado, for Nichuskin and a 3rd)
Bjugstad and Hallander to Calgary for Sam Bennett

Zucker-Crosby-Kapanen
Guentzel-Malkin-Rust
Bennett-Domi-Poulin
ZAR-Blueger-Tanev
xLafferty, Nichuskin

Dumo-Marino
Petterson-Montour
POJ-Ruhwedel
xJohnson

Jarry
DeSmith

You've added Kapanen, Bennett, Domi, Nichushkin who are all 25 or under, plus Poulin and POJ (also under 25), and Montour who is 26. P
You've added a solid prospect in Abramov. I think he has more offensive upside than Hallander (who we traded for Bennett)
You've shipped out Letang (33), Hornqvist (33), Bjugstad (28)....plus McCann (24), Riikola (25).
Picked up a 2nd (Buffalo deal) and a 3rd (Hornqvist deal)

Sign Jarry 3.5M for 2 years.
Sign Lafferty 850K for 2 years.
Sign Domi for 5M for 5 years.
Sign Montour for 4.25M for 4 years
Sign Nichushkin for 2M for 2 years.

You've added some size in Bennett and Nichushkin. Sullivan is going to need to be willing to spread Tanev, ZAR, Nichushkin and Bennett throughout the lineup at times. Poulin can play a bit of a power game too.

With those resigns of players, I have that roster coming out to around 75.5M. That's plenty to make some adjustments at the trade deadline, like upgrading 3rd pairing if Ruhwedel stumbles or POJ can't handle the time.

Again, not saying that all or any of these deals would happen, but, it's just another look at the type of transformation this team could undergo with the right type of thinking by Rutherford. Question is, can he think like this and put something like this together?
FLPensFan
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 14,827
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:30 pm
Location: South Florida

Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby Southern Fan on Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:32 pm

Even if Jarry isn’t the final answer he handles the puck way better than Murray and can start break outs. His puck handling can save wear and tear on defense from opposing team forechecks and make them think about dumping a puck in the zone.

JR cannot give Sullivan the opportunity to use Murray next year.
Southern Fan
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 5,236
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:51 am

Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby KG on Thu Aug 13, 2020 5:04 pm

I like the above FLP. Have to question if Poulin is ready to play 3rd line minutes as of yet though right?

I could also see the team moving on from ZAR. He is not a physical player anymore. Ever since the Washington series his game has regressed in my opinion. I could see him having trade value however because he is young and the analytics love him.

Part of me hopes they get a nice offer for Letang and move on it. That could help re-tool the team for the next several years.
KG
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 18,095
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:53 am
Location: NY

Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby thehockeyguru on Thu Aug 13, 2020 5:24 pm

KG wrote:I like the above FLP. Have to question if Poulin is ready to play 3rd line minutes as of yet though right?

I could also see the team moving on from ZAR. He is not a physical player anymore. Ever since the Washington series his game has regressed in my opinion. I could see him having trade value however because he is young and the analytics love him.

Part of me hopes they get a nice offer for Letang and move on it. That could help re-tool the team for the next several years.


Yeah I'm not sure why you'd sign Nichushkin to have him be an extra forward. I'd think you could fill that spot cheaper.

I also don't see Poulin making the team so I guess he could fit there
thehockeyguru
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 17,780
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:43 pm
Location: I'm 30 minutes away, I'll be there in 10.

Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby KG on Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:55 pm

Watching the playoffs. I still am not over the Reaves situation. Talk about lacking for a feel for your team and chemistry. Everyone on the team, especially the core, wanted Reaves and respected what he brought to the team. Ownership wanted him, players, even Tocchet sent out a tweet supporting the move when they acquired him. There is/was no reason why he shouldn't have been a strong contributor for this team.

Granted the team was coming off back to back cups so Sully had a lot of pull on roster decisions and players etc. Safe to say those days are over...thankfully.

JR, this year specifically brought in Sully type players with speed and skill. It didn't work again.

Time to get a little nasty, physical, young and hungry!
KG
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 18,095
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:53 am
Location: NY

Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby penny lane on Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:09 pm

Just now watching Kane & Toews romp on the ice it is now time that Sid & Evgeni make all efforts to be able to play together. If this could happen, may transfer over to the power play. Also a tangible way to show a real willingness to adjust.
penny lane
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 34,975
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 6:29 pm
Location: Pingvin na vsyu zhizn

Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby thehockeyguru on Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:16 pm

I know it's Eklund but he's saying PK Subban (salary retained) and a 1st for Nylander has been discussed.

Would you do Letang and the 15th for Nylander?
thehockeyguru
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 17,780
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:43 pm
Location: I'm 30 minutes away, I'll be there in 10.

Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby pens_CT on Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:42 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:I know it's Eklund but he's saying PK Subban (salary retained) and a 1st for Nylander has been discussed.

Would you do Letang and the 15th for Nylander?


I wouldn't give them a first round pick in addition to Letang. You're going to have to move another significant contract in order to free up money to replace Letang in the top 4.
pens_CT
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,511
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 6:47 pm

Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby thehockeyguru on Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:01 pm

pens_CT wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:I know it's Eklund but he's saying PK Subban (salary retained) and a 1st for Nylander has been discussed.

Would you do Letang and the 15th for Nylander?


I wouldn't give them a first round pick in addition to Letang. You're going to have to move another significant contract in order to free up money to replace Letang in the top 4.


Not necessarily, if you move Murray and McCann for Middlestadt and Montour that plugs two holes. Then move Bjugstad for the space and sign a guy a bottom pairing RHD

Zucker Crosby Nylander
Guentzel Malkin Rust
Poulin Middlestadt Hornqvist
ZAR Bleuger Tanev

Dumoulin Montour
Petterssen Marino
POJ ???
thehockeyguru
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 17,780
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:43 pm
Location: I'm 30 minutes away, I'll be there in 10.

Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby KG on Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:11 pm

If the Pens could get a 24 year old top line talent in Nylander for a 33 year old Letang you make the deal and figure out the rest after that.
KG
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 18,095
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:53 am
Location: NY

Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:18 pm

KG wrote:If the Pens could get a 24 year old top line talent in Nylander for a 33 year old Letang you make the deal and figure out the rest after that.

Yep, I agree. Other than a horrible year last year after signing late, Nylander has been solid. Maybe you could try him at center again in the future.

But, he's 24 years old and he's signed for 4 more seasons. He's not quite the bargain Guentzel is, but it's still a decent salary compared to what guys like Marner and Matthews pulled down. You get no guarantees that your 15th overall pick is going to pan out into a player that plays significant NHL minutes. For a 24 year old, I'd take the risk for sure.
FLPensFan
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 14,827
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:30 pm
Location: South Florida

Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:21 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
KG wrote:I like the above FLP. Have to question if Poulin is ready to play 3rd line minutes as of yet though right?

I could also see the team moving on from ZAR. He is not a physical player anymore. Ever since the Washington series his game has regressed in my opinion. I could see him having trade value however because he is young and the analytics love him.

Part of me hopes they get a nice offer for Letang and move on it. That could help re-tool the team for the next several years.


Yeah I'm not sure why you'd sign Nichushkin to have him be an extra forward. I'd think you could fill that spot cheaper.

I also don't see Poulin making the team so I guess he could fit there

I do think Poulin is going to make the team. I think he'd have to have an awful camp not to, based on comments GMJR has made...saying he came close to making it last year.
Nichushkin would be a guy that could fill in those minutes when Poulin or another forward is struggling. He'd be a better option than plugging Lafferty, Simon, A.Johnson, or Angello into the lineup.
I liked him too because he has some size and skill.
FLPensFan
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 14,827
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:30 pm
Location: South Florida

Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby thehockeyguru on Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:26 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
KG wrote:I like the above FLP. Have to question if Poulin is ready to play 3rd line minutes as of yet though right?

I could also see the team moving on from ZAR. He is not a physical player anymore. Ever since the Washington series his game has regressed in my opinion. I could see him having trade value however because he is young and the analytics love him.

Part of me hopes they get a nice offer for Letang and move on it. That could help re-tool the team for the next several years.


Yeah I'm not sure why you'd sign Nichushkin to have him be an extra forward. I'd think you could fill that spot cheaper.

I also don't see Poulin making the team so I guess he could fit there

I do think Poulin is going to make the team. I think he'd have to have an awful camp not to, based on comments GMJR has made...saying he came close to making it last year.
Nichushkin would be a guy that could fill in those minutes when Poulin or another forward is struggling. He'd be a better option than plugging Lafferty, Simon, A.Johnson, or Angello into the lineup.
I liked him too because he has some size and skill.


That's fair, he's had a good year with the Avs and they have the space to keep him. Id rather spend the money on him than McCann especially if you can package McCann to get a piece that can help.
thehockeyguru
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 17,780
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:43 pm
Location: I'm 30 minutes away, I'll be there in 10.

Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby Jim on Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:28 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:I know it's Eklund but he's saying PK Subban (salary retained) and a 1st for Nylander has been discussed.

Would you do Letang and the 15th for Nylander?


No. Nylander is solid, but not Letang and 1st.
Jim
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 18,568
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:18 pm
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby thehockeyguru on Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:41 pm

Jim wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:I know it's Eklund but he's saying PK Subban (salary retained) and a 1st for Nylander has been discussed.

Would you do Letang and the 15th for Nylander?


No. Nylander is solid, but not Letang and 1st.


If the Pens were able to move Murray for a top 4 RHD does that change your mind?
thehockeyguru
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 17,780
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:43 pm
Location: I'm 30 minutes away, I'll be there in 10.

Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby Jim on Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:44 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
Jim wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:I know it's Eklund but he's saying PK Subban (salary retained) and a 1st for Nylander has been discussed.

Would you do Letang and the 15th for Nylander?


No. Nylander is solid, but not Letang and 1st.


If the Pens were able to move Murray for a top 4 RHD does that change your mind?


No, that doesnt change the value of Letang, the 1st, or Nylander.
Jim
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 18,568
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:18 pm
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby FLPensFan on Fri Aug 14, 2020 12:32 am

So tonight, Dejan basically says Yohe and Rossi's claim that about spending 10M less is outright false. DK states in his Friday Insider piece that, his high ranking source within the team says Rutherford still has full financial commitment from ownership to spend whatever is needed to be a Cup contender.

Other interesting comment came from Molinari, saying Guerin made statements about upgrading goaltending in his season ending conference call. Molinari says don't be surprised if Guerin inquires about Murray.
FLPensFan
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 14,827
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:30 pm
Location: South Florida

Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby DelPen on Fri Aug 14, 2020 2:18 am

FLPensFan wrote:So tonight, Dejan basically says Yohe and Rossi's claim that about spending 10M less is outright false. DK states in his Friday Insider piece that, his high ranking source within the team says Rutherford still has full financial commitment from ownership to spend whatever is needed to be a Cup contender.

Other interesting comment came from Molinari, saying Guerin made statements about upgrading goaltending in his season ending conference call. Molinari says don't be surprised if Guerin inquires about Murray.


We would need to take Dubnyk back but we could probably get our 1st rounder back. Might be worth it since Dubnyk is a UFA after next season.

And who would feel better with Oleksiak and Maatta as our third pair? Never made sense to trade with of them.
DelPen
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 51,737
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:27 am
Location: Lake Wylie, SC

Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby KG on Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:26 am

FLPensFan wrote:So tonight, Dejan basically says Yohe and Rossi's claim that about spending 10M less is outright false. DK states in his Friday Insider piece that, his high ranking source within the team says Rutherford still has full financial commitment from ownership to spend whatever is needed to be a Cup contender.

Other interesting comment came from Molinari, saying Guerin made statements about upgrading goaltending in his season ending conference call. Molinari says don't be surprised if Guerin inquires about Murray.


Good to hear about being a cap team. Hopefully he’s right!

On a side note, I read some quotes from Rask. He’s saying the games don’t feel like playoff games, they feel like exhibition games! Not something you want to hear from your starting goalie as you try to win the cup.

I’m pretty sure Neely considers these games playoff games.
KG
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 18,095
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:53 am
Location: NY

Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby thehockeyguru on Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:26 am

Jim wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
Jim wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:I know it's Eklund but he's saying PK Subban (salary retained) and a 1st for Nylander has been discussed.

Would you do Letang and the 15th for Nylander?


No. Nylander is solid, but not Letang and 1st.


If the Pens were able to move Murray for a top 4 RHD does that change your mind?


No, that doesnt change the value of Letang, the 1st, or Nylander.


Letang to me is no longer a top pairing defenseman. Hes awful on the PP and average on the PK.

The 1st is a 50/50 raffle ticket that you get something useful in 4 years.

Nylander is a 1st line player now and for years to come.

I dont think I value Letang or the 1st as highly, but I respect where you're coming from.
thehockeyguru
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 17,780
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:43 pm
Location: I'm 30 minutes away, I'll be there in 10.

Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby FLPensFan on Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:30 am

DelPen wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:So tonight, Dejan basically says Yohe and Rossi's claim that about spending 10M less is outright false. DK states in his Friday Insider piece that, his high ranking source within the team says Rutherford still has full financial commitment from ownership to spend whatever is needed to be a Cup contender.

Other interesting comment came from Molinari, saying Guerin made statements about upgrading goaltending in his season ending conference call. Molinari says don't be surprised if Guerin inquires about Murray.


We would need to take Dubnyk back but we could probably get our 1st rounder back. Might be worth it since Dubnyk is a UFA after next season.

And who would feel better with Oleksiak and Maatta as our third pair? Never made sense to trade with of them.

Penguins seem to have too short of a leash with some, too long with others. For as much as I wanted Maatta gone, I still think I would take Maatta's slowness over Jack Johnson's everything right now. Oleksiak also suffered the Wilson fate, but, I thought he was still playing ok. Some pairing don't seem to work well (Maatta-Oleksiak was one), and the team just seems to hone in on one guy.

As a side note, I know Gonchar gets a ton of praise for his defensive work, but, it doesn't seem like many people see that a lot of his "great reclamation projects" regress after a year or two. Schultz and Oleksiak seem to be the two big ones. Cole also rejuvinated his career here, but then moved on.
FLPensFan
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 14,827
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:30 pm
Location: South Florida

PreviousNext

Return to Pittsburgh Penguins

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ohio_Pens_fan and 16 guests


e-mail