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Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

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Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby FLPensFan on Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:35 am

DelPen wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:So tonight, Dejan basically says Yohe and Rossi's claim that about spending 10M less is outright false. DK states in his Friday Insider piece that, his high ranking source within the team says Rutherford still has full financial commitment from ownership to spend whatever is needed to be a Cup contender.

Other interesting comment came from Molinari, saying Guerin made statements about upgrading goaltending in his season ending conference call. Molinari says don't be surprised if Guerin inquires about Murray.


We would need to take Dubnyk back but we could probably get our 1st rounder back. Might be worth it since Dubnyk is a UFA after next season.

And who would feel better with Oleksiak and Maatta as our third pair? Never made sense to trade with of them.

I really wouldn't want Dubnyk. I know the Wild would likely need to dump him, but, we don't need a goalie back in the deal. Only way I would take Dubnyk....

Murray and Johnson for Dubnyk, Brodin, and our 1st back.

I think Murray is one of the few chips (Letang and McCann are the others) that can get the team younger pieces that help now. Hornqvist, Bjugstad, Johnson, and some of the others are more where I see picks or prospects as the return. If this team wants to get younger, it would be up to the Letang and Murray returns to make that happen.
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Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby Steve on Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:38 am

The decisions cant be as uncomfortable as their last 8 playoff games.

Even the one win in those 8 games didn't feel great - I actually thought we would lose that series after this game, despite winning it.
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Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby FLPensFan on Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:55 am

Sean Gentile of the Athletic with a good piece on Athletic today, pretty much absolving the core and pointing the finger at 3 players, and coach/management behind their usage:

--Blames Sullivan for continually trotting out Johnson-Schultz as the 3rd pairing
--States they were also the worst pairing last post-season against the Isles
--Points to the mountain of data and stats against Jack Johnson that the Penguins just seem to ignore. His stats aren't just bad...they are so bad that Johnson is typically a stats outlier, ie, so far off the charts, in a bad way, from the rest of the pack. But instead, they'll vigorously defend him, talk about his shots, blocks, PK work and that he's a swell guy. :face:
--States that Schultz has been Schultz for a few years, too. They stopped sheltering him, and the problems he had before came back.
--States that Sullivan should have been wise enough to go to Riikola or Ruhwedel, or both....and if he didn't trust them enough, then that is on Rutherford for not getting a suitable replacement at the deadline...maybe instead of Marleau.
--Didn't like the 3rd line play this year. Well, guess who their most common defensive pair was in the qualifying round. Yep, by a mile.
--Final part was of course about Murray. Talked about how, when it appeared Sullivan was leaning towards Murray as the starter, Murray's save percentage actually went down from like .899 to .887.
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Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby FLPensFan on Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:57 am

FLPensFan wrote:So tonight, Dejan basically says Yohe and Rossi's claim that about spending 10M less is outright false. DK states in his Friday Insider piece that, his high ranking source within the team says Rutherford still has full financial commitment from ownership to spend whatever is needed to be a Cup contender.

Other interesting comment came from Molinari, saying Guerin made statements about upgrading goaltending in his season ending conference call. Molinari says don't be surprised if Guerin inquires about Murray.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out, who is right, and who is wrong. The Athletic as a whole is running full bore with the Yohe/Rossi story. I've seen it mentioned by other Athletic writers that Rossi & Yohe talked to TWELVE different sources, between industry sources, rival execs, team sources, and players.
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Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby thehockeyguru on Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:12 am

FLPensFan wrote:Sean Gentile of the Athletic with a good piece on Athletic today, pretty much absolving the core and pointing the finger at 3 players, and coach/management behind their usage:

--Blames Sullivan for continually trotting out Johnson-Schultz as the 3rd pairing
--States they were also the worst pairing last post-season against the Isles
--Points to the mountain of data and stats against Jack Johnson that the Penguins just seem to ignore. His stats aren't just bad...they are so bad that Johnson is typically a stats outlier, ie, so far off the charts, in a bad way, from the rest of the pack. But instead, they'll vigorously defend him, talk about his shots, blocks, PK work and that he's a swell guy. :face:
--States that Schultz has been Schultz for a few years, too. They stopped sheltering him, and the problems he had before came back.
--States that Sullivan should have been wise enough to go to Riikola or Ruhwedel, or both....and if he didn't trust them enough, then that is on Rutherford for not getting a suitable replacement at the deadline...maybe instead of Marleau.
--Didn't like the 3rd line play this year. Well, guess who their most common defensive pair was in the qualifying round. Yep, by a mile.
--Final part was of course about Murray. Talked about how, when it appeared Sullivan was leaning towards Murray as the starter, Murray's save percentage actually went down from like .899 to .887.


Apparently the only two people on this planet who don't know how bad JJ is are Sullivan and Rutherford.
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Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby pens_CT on Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:24 am

thehockeyguru wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Sean Gentile of the Athletic with a good piece on Athletic today, pretty much absolving the core and pointing the finger at 3 players, and coach/management behind their usage:

--Blames Sullivan for continually trotting out Johnson-Schultz as the 3rd pairing
--States they were also the worst pairing last post-season against the Isles
--Points to the mountain of data and stats against Jack Johnson that the Penguins just seem to ignore. His stats aren't just bad...they are so bad that Johnson is typically a stats outlier, ie, so far off the charts, in a bad way, from the rest of the pack. But instead, they'll vigorously defend him, talk about his shots, blocks, PK work and that he's a swell guy. :face:
--States that Schultz has been Schultz for a few years, too. They stopped sheltering him, and the problems he had before came back.
--States that Sullivan should have been wise enough to go to Riikola or Ruhwedel, or both....and if he didn't trust them enough, then that is on Rutherford for not getting a suitable replacement at the deadline...maybe instead of Marleau.
--Didn't like the 3rd line play this year. Well, guess who their most common defensive pair was in the qualifying round. Yep, by a mile.
--Final part was of course about Murray. Talked about how, when it appeared Sullivan was leaning towards Murray as the starter, Murray's save percentage actually went down from like .899 to .887.


Apparently the only two people on this planet who don't know how bad JJ is are Sullivan and Rutherford.


JJ has been a disaster since his early days in LA when he fancied himself to be more of an offensive defenseman. Made stupid decisions with the puck and when he should pinch. The only thing that has changed is his foot speed has declined with age. Both Sullivan and Rutherford are either blind to his deficiencies or their ego (related to his signing) gets in the way of making correct decisions on his usage.
Last edited by pens_CT on Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby ville5 on Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:25 am

thehockeyguru wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Sean Gentile of the Athletic with a good piece on Athletic today, pretty much absolving the core and pointing the finger at 3 players, and coach/management behind their usage:

--Blames Sullivan for continually trotting out Johnson-Schultz as the 3rd pairing
--States they were also the worst pairing last post-season against the Isles
--Points to the mountain of data and stats against Jack Johnson that the Penguins just seem to ignore. His stats aren't just bad...they are so bad that Johnson is typically a stats outlier, ie, so far off the charts, in a bad way, from the rest of the pack. But instead, they'll vigorously defend him, talk about his shots, blocks, PK work and that he's a swell guy. :face:
--States that Schultz has been Schultz for a few years, too. They stopped sheltering him, and the problems he had before came back.
--States that Sullivan should have been wise enough to go to Riikola or Ruhwedel, or both....and if he didn't trust them enough, then that is on Rutherford for not getting a suitable replacement at the deadline...maybe instead of Marleau.
--Didn't like the 3rd line play this year. Well, guess who their most common defensive pair was in the qualifying round. Yep, by a mile.
--Final part was of course about Murray. Talked about how, when it appeared Sullivan was leaning towards Murray as the starter, Murray's save percentage actually went down from like .899 to .887.


Apparently the only two people on this planet who don't know how bad JJ is are Sullivan and Rutherford.

Or it was a favor to Sid. Which people would still bash GMJR for. But if I'm GMJR, as much as Sid had done for the franchise, Sid gets what he wants.
Ok, JJ played bad. Several members of a team will in the playoffs. But it's a team loss. Everyone could've played better.
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Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby thehockeyguru on Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:36 am

ville5 wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Sean Gentile of the Athletic with a good piece on Athletic today, pretty much absolving the core and pointing the finger at 3 players, and coach/management behind their usage:

--Blames Sullivan for continually trotting out Johnson-Schultz as the 3rd pairing
--States they were also the worst pairing last post-season against the Isles
--Points to the mountain of data and stats against Jack Johnson that the Penguins just seem to ignore. His stats aren't just bad...they are so bad that Johnson is typically a stats outlier, ie, so far off the charts, in a bad way, from the rest of the pack. But instead, they'll vigorously defend him, talk about his shots, blocks, PK work and that he's a swell guy. :face:
--States that Schultz has been Schultz for a few years, too. They stopped sheltering him, and the problems he had before came back.
--States that Sullivan should have been wise enough to go to Riikola or Ruhwedel, or both....and if he didn't trust them enough, then that is on Rutherford for not getting a suitable replacement at the deadline...maybe instead of Marleau.
--Didn't like the 3rd line play this year. Well, guess who their most common defensive pair was in the qualifying round. Yep, by a mile.
--Final part was of course about Murray. Talked about how, when it appeared Sullivan was leaning towards Murray as the starter, Murray's save percentage actually went down from like .899 to .887.


Apparently the only two people on this planet who don't know how bad JJ is are Sullivan and Rutherford.

Or it was a favor to Sid. Which people would still bash GMJR for. But if I'm GMJR, as much as Sid had done for the franchise, Sid gets what he wants.
Ok, JJ played bad. Several members of a team will in the playoffs. But it's a team loss. Everyone could've played better.


Do you think Sid would put signing JJ ahead of winning?
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Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby Jim on Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:58 am

thehockeyguru wrote:
ville5 wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Sean Gentile of the Athletic with a good piece on Athletic today, pretty much absolving the core and pointing the finger at 3 players, and coach/management behind their usage:

--Blames Sullivan for continually trotting out Johnson-Schultz as the 3rd pairing
--States they were also the worst pairing last post-season against the Isles
--Points to the mountain of data and stats against Jack Johnson that the Penguins just seem to ignore. His stats aren't just bad...they are so bad that Johnson is typically a stats outlier, ie, so far off the charts, in a bad way, from the rest of the pack. But instead, they'll vigorously defend him, talk about his shots, blocks, PK work and that he's a swell guy. :face:
--States that Schultz has been Schultz for a few years, too. They stopped sheltering him, and the problems he had before came back.
--States that Sullivan should have been wise enough to go to Riikola or Ruhwedel, or both....and if he didn't trust them enough, then that is on Rutherford for not getting a suitable replacement at the deadline...maybe instead of Marleau.
--Didn't like the 3rd line play this year. Well, guess who their most common defensive pair was in the qualifying round. Yep, by a mile.
--Final part was of course about Murray. Talked about how, when it appeared Sullivan was leaning towards Murray as the starter, Murray's save percentage actually went down from like .899 to .887.


Apparently the only two people on this planet who don't know how bad JJ is are Sullivan and Rutherford.

Or it was a favor to Sid. Which people would still bash GMJR for. But if I'm GMJR, as much as Sid had done for the franchise, Sid gets what he wants.
Ok, JJ played bad. Several members of a team will in the playoffs. But it's a team loss. Everyone could've played better.


Do you think Sid would put signing JJ ahead of winning?


Johnson's contract is annoying, but it is not the cause of any of Pittsburgh's problems. It's less than the mean. There are teams with more cap hit than his tied up in buyouts, teams with more cap hit tied up in retained. It would be nice to have that $3M to use, but it's not at the cost of winning. Johnson's contract doesn't make Malkin slack off or Letang turn the puck over.

But I do hold that Johnson was signed 100% on Crosby's urging. Crosby to Johnson, "I got you bud!" That is also why I said from the start that Johnson would not get moved during the first 3 years of his deal. However, it might get to the point where Crosby talks to Johnson again.
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Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby thehockeyguru on Fri Aug 14, 2020 11:02 am

Jim wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
ville5 wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Sean Gentile of the Athletic with a good piece on Athletic today, pretty much absolving the core and pointing the finger at 3 players, and coach/management behind their usage:

--Blames Sullivan for continually trotting out Johnson-Schultz as the 3rd pairing
--States they were also the worst pairing last post-season against the Isles
--Points to the mountain of data and stats against Jack Johnson that the Penguins just seem to ignore. His stats aren't just bad...they are so bad that Johnson is typically a stats outlier, ie, so far off the charts, in a bad way, from the rest of the pack. But instead, they'll vigorously defend him, talk about his shots, blocks, PK work and that he's a swell guy. :face:
--States that Schultz has been Schultz for a few years, too. They stopped sheltering him, and the problems he had before came back.
--States that Sullivan should have been wise enough to go to Riikola or Ruhwedel, or both....and if he didn't trust them enough, then that is on Rutherford for not getting a suitable replacement at the deadline...maybe instead of Marleau.
--Didn't like the 3rd line play this year. Well, guess who their most common defensive pair was in the qualifying round. Yep, by a mile.
--Final part was of course about Murray. Talked about how, when it appeared Sullivan was leaning towards Murray as the starter, Murray's save percentage actually went down from like .899 to .887.


Apparently the only two people on this planet who don't know how bad JJ is are Sullivan and Rutherford.

Or it was a favor to Sid. Which people would still bash GMJR for. But if I'm GMJR, as much as Sid had done for the franchise, Sid gets what he wants.
Ok, JJ played bad. Several members of a team will in the playoffs. But it's a team loss. Everyone could've played better.


Do you think Sid would put signing JJ ahead of winning?


Johnson's contract is annoying, but it is not the cause of any of Pittsburgh's problems. It's less than the mean. There are teams with more cap hit than his tied up in buyouts, teams with more cap hit tied up in retained. It would be nice to have that $3M to use, but it's not at the cost of winning. Johnson's contract doesn't make Malkin slack off or Letang turn the puck over.

But I do hold that Johnson was signed 100% on Crosby's urging. Crosby to Johnson, "I got you bud!" That is also why I said from the start that Johnson would not get moved during the first 3 years of his deal. However, it might get to the point where Crosby talks to Johnson again.


Did you mean to say "all" problems?
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Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby FLPensFan on Fri Aug 14, 2020 11:11 am

thehockeyguru wrote:
ville5 wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Sean Gentile of the Athletic with a good piece on Athletic today, pretty much absolving the core and pointing the finger at 3 players, and coach/management behind their usage:

--Blames Sullivan for continually trotting out Johnson-Schultz as the 3rd pairing
--States they were also the worst pairing last post-season against the Isles
--Points to the mountain of data and stats against Jack Johnson that the Penguins just seem to ignore. His stats aren't just bad...they are so bad that Johnson is typically a stats outlier, ie, so far off the charts, in a bad way, from the rest of the pack. But instead, they'll vigorously defend him, talk about his shots, blocks, PK work and that he's a swell guy. :face:
--States that Schultz has been Schultz for a few years, too. They stopped sheltering him, and the problems he had before came back.
--States that Sullivan should have been wise enough to go to Riikola or Ruhwedel, or both....and if he didn't trust them enough, then that is on Rutherford for not getting a suitable replacement at the deadline...maybe instead of Marleau.
--Didn't like the 3rd line play this year. Well, guess who their most common defensive pair was in the qualifying round. Yep, by a mile.
--Final part was of course about Murray. Talked about how, when it appeared Sullivan was leaning towards Murray as the starter, Murray's save percentage actually went down from like .899 to .887.


Apparently the only two people on this planet who don't know how bad JJ is are Sullivan and Rutherford.

Or it was a favor to Sid. Which people would still bash GMJR for. But if I'm GMJR, as much as Sid had done for the franchise, Sid gets what he wants.
Ok, JJ played bad. Several members of a team will in the playoffs. But it's a team loss. Everyone could've played better.


Do you think Sid would put signing JJ ahead of winning?

Even if it was a favor to Sid, and to JJ for his financial issues....signing him is one thing. That doesn't mean you have to play him, and play him every night. That's a WHOLE different animal, and I believe Gentile brought this up too.

As a related side note, Kingerski has some info on younger Penguins who could make the roster, listing Poulin at about 75%, POJ at 100% (but might not be the starter), Legare as 20% (skating deficiencies and defensive deficiencies....I have heard similar feedback other places), and then Riikola (who didn't have a percentage). The key feedback on Riikola:

**For the questions about WHY Riikola didn’t play, a Penguins team source opened up to PHN. The Penguins love Riikola’s skill set but weren’t yet comfortable with Riikola’s adjustment to the North American rinks. The Penguins coaches felt Riikola was short on defensive awareness, and his angles were off.**

If this is true, this is another horrible mismanagement of a player. Riikola looked very good his first training camp. He looked like he would need very little adjustment. If this is truly the way the Penguins felt, well, he had waiver exemption. He should have stayed in WBS to get adjusted, not on the NHL roster. This is why I think Riikola will request a trade this offseason. He's been jerked around by the Penguins. We've seen Ruhwedel playing his offside get into games over Riikola. Riikola may not be a top 6 guy, but, when you start putting guys on their off-side ahead of him, that's an issue.

I know this is coming from Kingerski, and some people think he's just another Eklund type....but, I've learned Kingerski is slowly starting to gain some credibility. He is definitely above TIOPS level, as Kingerski has access to the Penguins locker room. They don't give that to just anyone. You can get credentialed for NHL games (can sit in press box) but not have locker room access. Kingerski gained access last year I believe mid-way through the season. He also was the ONLY local hockey reporter that went to Toronto and was in the bubble. Kingerski just needs to lose his fanboy comments, which is what kept him from gaining credibility. I can relate...I like to think of myself as a pretty knowledgeable hockey poster, but, every now and again I'll go off on a tangent with trades or wild ideas that are outside my more thought out or realistic hockey talk....but I'm not trying to be an NHL level writer.
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Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby thehockeyguru on Fri Aug 14, 2020 11:21 am

Well the Max Domi rumors are starting again..... I feel like his perceived value is much higher than his actual value. That is a guy you don't want to deal for IMO

Don't get me started on Riikola. The Pens totally screwed up with him, he'll excel when he gets a legit shot with another franchise
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Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby Cow_Master66 on Fri Aug 14, 2020 12:06 pm

I'm personally very high on Riikola...I think he's one of those guys that when he finds his way to another team he will bust out (as much as 3-4 can "bust out"). I hope he gets that chance here next year but if he doesn't and they move him I think it will be doing a service to the player.
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Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby pens_CT on Fri Aug 14, 2020 12:20 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:Well the Max Domi rumors are starting again..... I feel like his perceived value is much higher than his actual value. That is a guy you don't want to deal for IMO

Don't get me started on Riikola. The Pens totally screwed up with him, he'll excel when he gets a legit shot with another franchise


Regardin Domi. Two issues firdt is the acquisition cost, if Montreal wants our first round pick i hope Rutherford says no. The 2nd is what kind of money does he want on his next contract. If we're talking around 4 million then that's within reason, if we're talking 5+ million then i don't see it especially with a flat cap.

Regarding Riikola I only see him wanting to stay here if JJ is moved from the roster. Otherwise he probably either goes back to Europe or asks not to be qualified so he can become an UFA.
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Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby Jim on Fri Aug 14, 2020 12:51 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
Jim wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:Do you think Sid would put signing JJ ahead of winning?


Johnson's contract is annoying, but it is not the cause of any of Pittsburgh's problems. It's less than the mean. There are teams with more cap hit than his tied up in buyouts, teams with more cap hit tied up in retained. It would be nice to have that $3M to use, but it's not at the cost of winning. Johnson's contract doesn't make Malkin slack off or Letang turn the puck over.

But I do hold that Johnson was signed 100% on Crosby's urging. Crosby to Johnson, "I got you bud!" That is also why I said from the start that Johnson would not get moved during the first 3 years of his deal. However, it might get to the point where Crosby talks to Johnson again.


Did you mean to say "all" problems?


No.
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Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby Jim on Fri Aug 14, 2020 12:56 pm

FLPensFan wrote:Kingerski **For the questions about WHY Riikola didn’t play, a Penguins team source opened up to PHN. The Penguins love Riikola’s skill set but weren’t yet comfortable with Riikola’s adjustment to the North American rinks. The Penguins coaches felt Riikola was short on defensive awareness, and his angles were off.**


So they love his skill set... but aren't comfortable with his... skill set?

Writers are so great.
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Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby thehockeyguru on Fri Aug 14, 2020 12:59 pm

Jim wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
Jim wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:Do you think Sid would put signing JJ ahead of winning?


Johnson's contract is annoying, but it is not the cause of any of Pittsburgh's problems. It's less than the mean. There are teams with more cap hit than his tied up in buyouts, teams with more cap hit tied up in retained. It would be nice to have that $3M to use, but it's not at the cost of winning. Johnson's contract doesn't make Malkin slack off or Letang turn the puck over.

But I do hold that Johnson was signed 100% on Crosby's urging. Crosby to Johnson, "I got you bud!" That is also why I said from the start that Johnson would not get moved during the first 3 years of his deal. However, it might get to the point where Crosby talks to Johnson again.


Did you mean to say "all" problems?


No.


I dont know how you can say JJ isn't a problem. He isn't the main problem but he still is a problem
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Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby ville5 on Fri Aug 14, 2020 1:29 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
ville5 wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Sean Gentile of the Athletic with a good piece on Athletic today, pretty much absolving the core and pointing the finger at 3 players, and coach/management behind their usage:

--Blames Sullivan for continually trotting out Johnson-Schultz as the 3rd pairing
--States they were also the worst pairing last post-season against the Isles
--Points to the mountain of data and stats against Jack Johnson that the Penguins just seem to ignore. His stats aren't just bad...they are so bad that Johnson is typically a stats outlier, ie, so far off the charts, in a bad way, from the rest of the pack. But instead, they'll vigorously defend him, talk about his shots, blocks, PK work and that he's a swell guy. :face:
--States that Schultz has been Schultz for a few years, too. They stopped sheltering him, and the problems he had before came back.
--States that Sullivan should have been wise enough to go to Riikola or Ruhwedel, or both....and if he didn't trust them enough, then that is on Rutherford for not getting a suitable replacement at the deadline...maybe instead of Marleau.
--Didn't like the 3rd line play this year. Well, guess who their most common defensive pair was in the qualifying round. Yep, by a mile.
--Final part was of course about Murray. Talked about how, when it appeared Sullivan was leaning towards Murray as the starter, Murray's save percentage actually went down from like .899 to .887.


Apparently the only two people on this planet who don't know how bad JJ is are Sullivan and Rutherford.

Or it was a favor to Sid. Which people would still bash GMJR for. But if I'm GMJR, as much as Sid had done for the franchise, Sid gets what he wants.
Ok, JJ played bad. Several members of a team will in the playoffs. But it's a team loss. Everyone could've played better.


Do you think Sid would put signing JJ ahead of winning?

JJ isn't going to prevent the Pens from winning.
Do I think Sid would go above and beyond to help out a lifelong best friend? Absolutely.
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Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby largegarlic on Fri Aug 14, 2020 1:56 pm

Cow_Master66 wrote:I'm personally very high on Riikola...I think he's one of those guys that when he finds his way to another team he will bust out (as much as 3-4 can "bust out"). I hope he gets that chance here next year but if he doesn't and they move him I think it will be doing a service to the player.


Yeah, I think he seems at least like a perfectly competent bottom pairing LD, maybe with potential for more if he actually got a decent run of games. All coaches have their players who they just don't like for whatever reason, even if the player looks fine to outsiders and could go on to flourish on a different team. When the team's winning, it's easy enough to cut the coach slack on this, but when the team's losing, and the guys in the doghouse (or the guys who were shipped out because they were in the doghouse) look better than the coach's picks, it starts raising some red flags about the coach and GM.
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Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby FLPensFan on Fri Aug 14, 2020 2:03 pm

largegarlic wrote:
Cow_Master66 wrote:I'm personally very high on Riikola...I think he's one of those guys that when he finds his way to another team he will bust out (as much as 3-4 can "bust out"). I hope he gets that chance here next year but if he doesn't and they move him I think it will be doing a service to the player.


Yeah, I think he seems at least like a perfectly competent bottom pairing LD, maybe with potential for more if he actually got a decent run of games. All coaches have their players who they just don't like for whatever reason, even if the player looks fine to outsiders and could go on to flourish on a different team. When the team's winning, it's easy enough to cut the coach slack on this, but when the team's losing, and the guys in the doghouse (or the guys who were shipped out because they were in the doghouse) look better than the coach's picks, it starts raising some red flags about the coach and GM.

I think Riikola can be a solid #5 guy, and could possibly be an average #4 guy as his ceiling. But unless Johnson is moved, I don't see him staying. Why would he want to if Ruhwedel is favored over him, even on his off side, Johnson is favored over both, and POJ is knocking on the door.

I would much rather prefer a POJ/Riikola platoon on the 3rd pairing over Johnson getting any more minutes.

In order, I see Riikola:

1. Being included in a deal to another team.
2. Requesting a trade and/or non-qualifying to become a UFA
3. Resigning with the Penguins.
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Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby FLPensFan on Fri Aug 14, 2020 2:13 pm

pens_CT wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:Well the Max Domi rumors are starting again..... I feel like his perceived value is much higher than his actual value. That is a guy you don't want to deal for IMO

Don't get me started on Riikola. The Pens totally screwed up with him, he'll excel when he gets a legit shot with another franchise


Regardin Domi. Two issues firdt is the acquisition cost, if Montreal wants our first round pick i hope Rutherford says no. The 2nd is what kind of money does he want on his next contract. If we're talking around 4 million then that's within reason, if we're talking 5+ million then i don't see it especially with a flat cap.

Regarding Riikola I only see him wanting to stay here if JJ is moved from the roster. Otherwise he probably either goes back to Europe or asks not to be qualified so he can become an UFA.

Domi for McCann are close in age. Only a year apart. My view is, Domi for McCann, Riikola (if MTL still has interest in him), and a 3rd/4th/Bellerive type prospect should be enough. If you ask any MTL fan, they want a 1st, top prospect, and Crosby's first born.

It's a mixed bag on Domi. He put up 28 goals and 72 points last year. This year, he's fallen back towards his career norms with 44 points. Even at his career average and worst season, he's still a more skilled player than McCann. Biggest issue is he has arbitration rights, and if he were to go to arbitration, he's probably going to get a bigger reward than he deserves.

I'd be willing to go as high as 5M for 5 years on Domi, but that's it. The other option would be a 1 year show me deal for maybe 4-4.5M. If Domi completes the 20-21 season under a 1 year deal, that would only be his 6th complete season in the NHL, so he would still be an RFA at seasons end, with Penguins retaining his rights at that point. If he can get back to 50-60 point range, 5-6M AAV contract is reasonable. If he stays in that mid 30's to mid-40's range, 5M AAV tops is reasonable.

What I like about Domi is, if he can get back to that 50-70 point range, he can be a 2C on this team. He could be a 3C on this team. He could be a top 6 LW on this team. Lot of options. I have considered that, if Domi pulled his numbers up, maybe in the last year or two of Geno's deal, you consider a top line of Malkin-Crosby-Guentzel, with Zucker-Domi-Rust as your 2nd, and then whatever you can put together as the 3rd line.

Lot more options with Domi on board.
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Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby Jim on Fri Aug 14, 2020 2:16 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
Jim wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
Jim wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:Do you think Sid would put signing JJ ahead of winning?


Johnson's contract is annoying, but it is not the cause of any of Pittsburgh's problems. It's less than the mean. There are teams with more cap hit than his tied up in buyouts, teams with more cap hit tied up in retained. It would be nice to have that $3M to use, but it's not at the cost of winning. Johnson's contract doesn't make Malkin slack off or Letang turn the puck over.

But I do hold that Johnson was signed 100% on Crosby's urging. Crosby to Johnson, "I got you bud!" That is also why I said from the start that Johnson would not get moved during the first 3 years of his deal. However, it might get to the point where Crosby talks to Johnson again.


Did you mean to say "all" problems?


No.


I dont know how you can say JJ isn't a problem. He isn't the main problem but he still is a problem


Not what I said at all.
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Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby Jim on Fri Aug 14, 2020 2:18 pm

Rutherford should do for Riikola what Edmonton did for Marino.
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Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby thehockeyguru on Fri Aug 14, 2020 2:23 pm

Jim wrote:Rutherford should do for Riikola what Edmonton did for Marino.


And what regret trading him?
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Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby thehockeyguru on Fri Aug 14, 2020 2:27 pm

You said that Johnson's contract isn't a problem. Show me a team that will take Johnson without us giving up an asset or equally bad contract in return.

That in and of itself is a problem
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