Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

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Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby thehockeyguru on Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:02 pm

DelPen wrote:Murray and Johnson to Detroit for Bernier and one of the three 2nd rounders they have this year. That’s the type of deal we can expect if we can move Johnson. Johnson will take up space during a rebuild where Detroit is better off being bad to get more high picks and then in 4 years they can push back to being relevant.


Murray is the best trade piece they have, he better net more than a backup goalie we dont want and a salary dump.
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Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby Skatingpen on Thu Aug 20, 2020 11:18 pm

Why do you think a Murray deal will involve anything of real substance? Everyone knows they don’t want him, he has been subpar for years now and he wants starter money......
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Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby Jim on Thu Aug 20, 2020 11:38 pm

Skatingpen wrote:Why do you think a Murray deal will involve anything of real substance? Everyone knows they don’t want him, he has been subpar for years now and he wants starter money......


Same reason that he is going to get paaaaid by whoever's signs him...
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Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Aug 20, 2020 11:51 pm

Jim wrote:
Skatingpen wrote:Why do you think a Murray deal will involve anything of real substance? Everyone knows they don’t want him, he has been subpar for years now and he wants starter money......


Same reason that he is going to get paaaaid by whoever's signs him...

I think Murray will get traded, the return will be average (not outstanding, and not poor). I also believe Murray will get Franson'd...that is, will be in for a big shock when his next contract isn't anywhere close to what he wants. If Murray thinks he can get 8M, he's delusional:

1. He signed his current 3 year deal in 2017-2018 and, his numbers dropped in all major categories in each year of his deal. That's typically a good recipe for getting a pay cut.
2. The league itself is moving towards split starters
3. There have been only 3 goalies paid above 8M AAV on new deals in the last 3 years. Vasilevskiy, Bobrovsky, Fleury, and Price. Bob was 1000% overpaid. Fleury definitely got too much. Price and Vasilevskiy are debatable. Probably overpaid each by a 1M or so, but in the grand scheme, not horrible. Murray isn't above any of these guys (maybe Bob) right now.
4. Knock, knock. Who's there? Pandemic. Sorry Matt, but this isn't the time to be signing break the bank deals. If your demands hadn't been so out of line in the first place, maybe you would have gotten GMJR to negotiate during the season.
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Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby 100565 on Fri Aug 21, 2020 7:45 am

FLPensFan wrote:
Jim wrote:
Skatingpen wrote:Why do you think a Murray deal will involve anything of real substance? Everyone knows they don’t want him, he has been subpar for years now and he wants starter money......


Same reason that he is going to get paaaaid by whoever's signs him...

I think Murray will get traded, the return will be average (not outstanding, and not poor). I also believe Murray will get Franson'd...that is, will be in for a big shock when his next contract isn't anywhere close to what he wants. If Murray thinks he can get 8M, he's delusional:

1. He signed his current 3 year deal in 2017-2018 and, his numbers dropped in all major categories in each year of his deal. That's typically a good recipe for getting a pay cut.
2. The league itself is moving towards split starters
3. There have been only 3 goalies paid above 8M AAV on new deals in the last 3 years. Vasilevskiy, Bobrovsky, Fleury, and Price. Bob was 1000% overpaid. Fleury definitely got too much. Price and Vasilevskiy are debatable. Probably overpaid each by a 1M or so, but in the grand scheme, not horrible. Murray isn't above any of these guys (maybe Bob) right now.
4. Knock, knock. Who's there? Pandemic. Sorry Matt, but this isn't the time to be signing break the bank deals. If your demands hadn't been so out of line in the first place, maybe you would have gotten GMJR to negotiate during the season.


Aren't these all good reasons for poor trade value? You seem to describe Murray as a inconsistant amd declining goalie who will probably be part of a tandemm pair - a replacement level starter who will earn ~$5mil.

I agree he gets traded. I think the return will be relatively poor...but his value really depends on his salary. Even at $5mil, he is a risk. IMO, he has not played much better (last 2-3 years) than DeSmith a couple years ago.
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Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby pens_CT on Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:03 am

After watching that Calgary goaltending display last night, 7 goals against on 24 shots, add the Flames as a team that need someone else at that position.
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Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby KG on Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:42 am

pens_CT wrote:After watching that Calgary goaltending display last night, 7 goals against on 24 shots, add the Flames as a team that need someone else at that position.


Sam Bennett would be high on the Pens list I would think. Had a real good playoff, big, skilled, 24. Hasn't fully put it together yet though.

Murray for Bennett and a 2nd?
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Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby DelPen on Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:50 am

KG wrote:
pens_CT wrote:After watching that Calgary goaltending display last night, 7 goals against on 24 shots, add the Flames as a team that need someone else at that position.


Sam Bennett would be high on the Pens list I would think. Had a real good playoff, big, skilled, 24. Hasn't fully put it together yet though.

Murray for Bennett and a 2nd?


With Talbot a UFA and Rittich one year away and only $2.75 million Murray would fit their roster. Bennett also fits as a 3C here. Calgary has a problem too on defense, only three guys signed and a lot of UFA, they might actually want Riikkola or Rhuwedel in a trade too. Johnson will be too expensive.

Calgary is a good fit though.
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Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby FLPensFan on Fri Aug 21, 2020 12:16 pm

DelPen wrote:
KG wrote:
pens_CT wrote:After watching that Calgary goaltending display last night, 7 goals against on 24 shots, add the Flames as a team that need someone else at that position.


Sam Bennett would be high on the Pens list I would think. Had a real good playoff, big, skilled, 24. Hasn't fully put it together yet though.

Murray for Bennett and a 2nd?


With Talbot a UFA and Rittich one year away and only $2.75 million Murray would fit their roster. Bennett also fits as a 3C here. Calgary has a problem too on defense, only three guys signed and a lot of UFA, they might actually want Riikkola or Rhuwedel in a trade too. Johnson will be too expensive.

Calgary is a good fit though.

I've seen some suggestions here that, with Bennett having a good playoffs, they may not deal him. I've also seen some suggestions on Twitterverse that Calgary may be close to blowing things up. They made the playoffs, but, they don't really have enough to be strong contenders, and they have a lot of players that have been there for awhile. Gaudreau's been there 6 years, Monahan 7, Bennett 5, Giordano 13. They haven't gotten it done. It may be time for them to bring in some different pieces. Gaudreau's been rumored to possibly be on the move. Bennett has been in trade rumors for at least the past 3 years because he hasn't lived up to being a 4th overall pick.

I wouldn't mind Bennett and a 2nd or Bennett, a 3rd, and a B level prospect for Murray and Riikola.
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Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby thehockeyguru on Fri Aug 21, 2020 1:18 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
DelPen wrote:
KG wrote:
pens_CT wrote:After watching that Calgary goaltending display last night, 7 goals against on 24 shots, add the Flames as a team that need someone else at that position.


Sam Bennett would be high on the Pens list I would think. Had a real good playoff, big, skilled, 24. Hasn't fully put it together yet though.

Murray for Bennett and a 2nd?


With Talbot a UFA and Rittich one year away and only $2.75 million Murray would fit their roster. Bennett also fits as a 3C here. Calgary has a problem too on defense, only three guys signed and a lot of UFA, they might actually want Riikkola or Rhuwedel in a trade too. Johnson will be too expensive.

Calgary is a good fit though.

I've seen some suggestions here that, with Bennett having a good playoffs, they may not deal him. I've also seen some suggestions on Twitterverse that Calgary may be close to blowing things up. They made the playoffs, but, they don't really have enough to be strong contenders, and they have a lot of players that have been there for awhile. Gaudreau's been there 6 years, Monahan 7, Bennett 5, Giordano 13. They haven't gotten it done. It may be time for them to bring in some different pieces. Gaudreau's been rumored to possibly be on the move. Bennett has been in trade rumors for at least the past 3 years because he hasn't lived up to being a 4th overall pick.

I wouldn't mind Bennett and a 2nd or Bennett, a 3rd, and a B level prospect for Murray and Riikola.


The only constant I've seen regarding the Pens offseason plans is the need for a top line RW to play with Sid.

I think it makes sense to use Murray in order to fill that void but it may limit the trading partners. Minnesota and Buffalo then wouldn't appear to be good trade partners
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Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby Ericf on Fri Aug 21, 2020 1:26 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
DelPen wrote:
KG wrote:
pens_CT wrote:After watching that Calgary goaltending display last night, 7 goals against on 24 shots, add the Flames as a team that need someone else at that position.


Sam Bennett would be high on the Pens list I would think. Had a real good playoff, big, skilled, 24. Hasn't fully put it together yet though.

Murray for Bennett and a 2nd?


With Talbot a UFA and Rittich one year away and only $2.75 million Murray would fit their roster. Bennett also fits as a 3C here. Calgary has a problem too on defense, only three guys signed and a lot of UFA, they might actually want Riikkola or Rhuwedel in a trade too. Johnson will be too expensive.

Calgary is a good fit though.

I've seen some suggestions here that, with Bennett having a good playoffs, they may not deal him. I've also seen some suggestions on Twitterverse that Calgary may be close to blowing things up. They made the playoffs, but, they don't really have enough to be strong contenders, and they have a lot of players that have been there for awhile. Gaudreau's been there 6 years, Monahan 7, Bennett 5, Giordano 13. They haven't gotten it done. It may be time for them to bring in some different pieces. Gaudreau's been rumored to possibly be on the move. Bennett has been in trade rumors for at least the past 3 years because he hasn't lived up to being a 4th overall pick.

I wouldn't mind Bennett and a 2nd or Bennett, a 3rd, and a B level prospect for Murray and Riikola.


The only constant I've seen regarding the Pens offseason plans is the need for a top line RW to play with Sid.

I think it makes sense to use Murray in order to fill that void but it may limit the trading partners. Minnesota and Buffalo then wouldn't appear to be good trade partners


Sam Reinhart RFA for Matt Murray RFA...would love this one
Luke Kunin +2nd pick for Murray
They could be trading partners
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Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby Ohio_Pens_fan on Fri Aug 21, 2020 2:12 pm

I think you'd have to give a bit more to get Reinhart and even then I doubt that they would even consider trading him. Would love to get him though. If not, Murray for Montour straight up has been suggested.
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Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby FLPensFan on Fri Aug 21, 2020 2:21 pm

Ericf wrote:Sam Reinhart RFA for Matt Murray RFA...would love this one
Luke Kunin +2nd pick for Murray
They could be trading partners

If you've been around awhile, you know Reinhart is one of my man-crush players I love to have. But, there's no way Buffalo is giving him up for just Murray. I sure wouldn't. He's young and still improving. 24 years old, 20 goal seasons in 4 of his 5 NHL seasons, 2 50 point and 1 65 point season. He's a keeper.

I don't see Minnesota trading any of their young forwards...Fiala, Kunin, Kaprizov. They traded Zucker to make space for Kaprizov to come over to the NHL.
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Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby DelPen on Fri Aug 21, 2020 3:58 pm

Wild would need to do something with Dubnyk for next year as at $4.3 million. If they want Murray then there should be some team, like the Caps, who will be losing their starter to UFA and need a cheaper option for a #1. But I wouldn’t be adverse to trading Murray for Dubnyk and our 2021 1st back.
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Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby thehockeyguru on Fri Aug 21, 2020 4:01 pm

DelPen wrote:Wild would need to do something with Dubnyk for next year as at $4.3 million. If they want Murray then there should be some team, like the Caps, who will be losing their starter to UFA and need a cheaper option for a #1. But I wouldn’t be adverse to trading Murray for Dubnyk and our 2021 1st back.


Caps are high on Samsonov, they just need a cheap veteran backup.
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Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby Ohio_Pens_fan on Fri Aug 21, 2020 4:18 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
Ericf wrote:Sam Reinhart RFA for Matt Murray RFA...would love this one
Luke Kunin +2nd pick for Murray
They could be trading partners

If you've been around awhile, you know Reinhart is one of my man-crush players I love to have. But, there's no way Buffalo is giving him up for just Murray. I sure wouldn't. He's young and still improving. 24 years old, 20 goal seasons in 4 of his 5 NHL seasons, 2 50 point and 1 65 point season. He's a keeper.

I don't see Minnesota trading any of their young forwards...Fiala, Kunin, Kaprizov. They traded Zucker to make space for Kaprizov to come over to the NHL.

Not sure if it was you or not, but the suggestion was Murray to Detroit for either Mantha or Bertuzzi. Personally I like either one.
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Re: Uncomfortable decisions ahead for Penguins

Postby FLPensFan on Fri Aug 21, 2020 4:56 pm

Ohio_Pens_fan wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
Ericf wrote:Sam Reinhart RFA for Matt Murray RFA...would love this one
Luke Kunin +2nd pick for Murray
They could be trading partners

If you've been around awhile, you know Reinhart is one of my man-crush players I love to have. But, there's no way Buffalo is giving him up for just Murray. I sure wouldn't. He's young and still improving. 24 years old, 20 goal seasons in 4 of his 5 NHL seasons, 2 50 point and 1 65 point season. He's a keeper.

I don't see Minnesota trading any of their young forwards...Fiala, Kunin, Kaprizov. They traded Zucker to make space for Kaprizov to come over to the NHL.

Not sure if it was you or not, but the suggestion was Murray to Detroit for either Mantha or Bertuzzi. Personally I like either one.

Pretty sure I mentioned Murray for Mantha at one point.

Buffalo, Calgary, Chicago, Detroit, Edmonton and Minnesota seem the most likely destinations to me. I know Colorado had interest, but both their goalies have played well in the playoffs. Even though they are a few years older, I doubt they have interest in Murray now.
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