Black Wednesday behind the bench

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Black Wednesday behind the bench

Postby scpensfan on Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:47 am

Sullivan stays. Everyone else kicked to the curb.
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Re: Black Wednesday behind the bench

Postby scpensfan on Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:49 am

Recchi: No-brainer, IMO
Gonchar: Was he not around enough to keep, maybe?
Martin: Not sure I get that one. Weren't his main responsibilities D and PK? Not really sure how you can fault him for much of anything. I mean, unless he's the one who was responsible for Johnson and Schultz getting sweaters long after their expiration dates hit. (or acquiring JJ, for that matter).
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Re: Black Wednesday behind the bench

Postby DelPen on Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:50 am

It’s a good start. Recchi was not good at his job, just every play he seemed to spend time drawing up was either executed to its perfect ineptness or they were too complicated to pull off. Either way, bye.

Gonchar didn’t make any defensemen better, some started good and got worse like Pettersson. Marino could have begun a slide too.

I have no idea what Martin does or has been doing.

None of these guys are Sullivan hires too, all have been in the organization before he was. Maybe this will be his last chance to turn things around with his own picked staff?
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Re: Black Wednesday behind the bench

Postby Penguins Knight on Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:23 am

I intended to analyze the coaching staff for another discussion that is now unnecessary. Martin, Gonchar, and Recchi have been with the Penguins organization for awhile. Gonchar and Recchi are great as positional development coaches, not as assistant coaches. Martin has been around for years, but his coaching in some ways regressed to being ineffective.

I wonder if Sullivan will have input for candidates for his coaching staff, or if Rutherford has someone specific in mind to succeed Sullivan if that decision comes.
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Re: Black Wednesday behind the bench

Postby KG on Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:41 am

scpensfan wrote:Sullivan stays. Everyone else kicked to the curb.


It's a good start! Has there been any announcement that Sully is safe??

Recchi was not good. He needed to be away from behind the bench.

Sully is more of a CEO type of coach. If we are going to keep him, he needs strong assistants.

I would personally move on from Sully.
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Re: Black Wednesday behind the bench

Postby Penguins Knight on Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:49 am

KG wrote:
scpensfan wrote:Sullivan stays. Everyone else kicked to the curb.


It's a good start! Has there been any announcement that Sully is safe??

Recchi was not good. He needed to be away from behind the bench.

Sully is more of a CEO type of coach. If we are going to keep him, he needs strong assistants.

I would personally move on from Sully.


Which strong assistant candidates are available? Former head coaches that have excelled in specific positions and specialty situations (i.e. power play, penalty kill) can be included.
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Re: Black Wednesday behind the bench

Postby KG on Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:51 am

Martin was in charge of D pairings and ice time apparently. Can't bring him back if it was his decision to keep throwing out JJ/Schultz.
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Re: Black Wednesday behind the bench

Postby Pensfan4life8771 on Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:54 am

I wonder who are possible replacements? Could we grab someone like Gallant or Lavioette?

It'll be very interesting to see where this all lands. This is not even the roster side of things. If I am a player I'm curious now.
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Re: Black Wednesday behind the bench

Postby DelPen on Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:54 am

KG wrote:Martin was in charge of D pairings and ice time apparently. Can't bring him back if it was his decision to keep throwing out JJ/Schultz.

Either it’s what he wanted or he kept objecting and was ignored. Either case, needs to go at this point.
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Re: Black Wednesday behind the bench

Postby Pensfan4life8771 on Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:55 am

KG wrote:Martin was in charge of D pairings and ice time apparently. Can't bring him back if it was his decision to keep throwing out JJ/Schultz.


Can not entirely put fault on a coach on that one. Helps to have good players who can complete the job too lol JJ did not.
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Re: Black Wednesday behind the bench

Postby thehockeyguru on Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:57 am

KG wrote:Martin was in charge of D pairings and ice time apparently. Can't bring him back if it was his decision to keep throwing out JJ/Schultz.


My issue with the D for a couple seasons has been the breakout, its way way too slow. The D makes 3 or 4 passes in our end allowing teams to get into position to trap.

I really hope the new staff stresses quick transition play when there is a turnover.
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Re: Black Wednesday behind the bench

Postby pens_CT on Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:59 am

Pensfan4life8771 wrote:I wonder who are possible replacements? Could we grab someone like Gallant or Lavioette?

It'll be very interesting to see where this all lands. This is not even the roster side of things. If I am a player I'm curious now.


I doubt Laviolette is coming here as an assistant. I could see the WBS coach Vellucci coming up as one of the assistants.
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Re: Black Wednesday behind the bench

Postby Penguins Knight on Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:04 pm

Pensfan4life8771 wrote:I wonder who are possible replacements? Could we grab someone like Gallant or Lavioette?

It'll be very interesting to see where this all lands. This is not even the roster side of things. If I am a player I'm curious now.


Gallant would have a forward perspective Lavioette has a defenseman perspective. Both have been head coaches. If either or both need a break from being head coaches and working out of the spotlight, I could warm up to either or both.
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Re: Black Wednesday behind the bench

Postby Penguins Knight on Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:08 pm

pens_CT wrote:
Pensfan4life8771 wrote:I wonder who are possible replacements? Could we grab someone like Gallant or Lavioette?

It'll be very interesting to see where this all lands. This is not even the roster side of things. If I am a player I'm curious now.


I doubt Laviolette is coming here as an assistant. I could see the WBS coach Vellucci coming up as one of the assistants.


If Laviolette does not find a head coaching position, he may have to opt for an assistant coach job. Calgary, Dallas, San José, and Seattle have Head Coach vacancies.
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Re: Black Wednesday behind the bench

Postby KG on Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:24 pm

Rumor has it the Devils tried to hire Laviolette for their head coach job. He wanted $5mill per year...He's not coming here to be an assistant. Nor should he. He's a legit NHL head coach who will have a job soon enough.
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Re: Black Wednesday behind the bench

Postby lemieuxReturns on Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:42 pm

I like the move. It sort of puts the onus on the coaches for once. Rutherford basically said I am not trading away the core and all the coaches except for Sully can hit the road.... and now Sully is on notice as well. No head coach wants to have a bunch of new guys behind the bench itching for his job the moment he slips up again.
The one absolutely crazy thing that happens every season is the crap that Geno has to work with on his line. Rutherford gets guys but Sully decides where they play. I have no idea why Sully did not reunite one of the best lines in all of hockey this season (Jake-Geno-Rust) when no one was scoring goals. Why did he not try it for even a period???
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Re: Black Wednesday behind the bench

Postby thehockeyguru on Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:47 pm

So is this a precursor to Mike Vellucci being added to the NHL staff and Botterill coming back as an assistant GM and to be WBS GM?
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Re: Black Wednesday behind the bench

Postby demangone on Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:17 pm

Just like Gonchar to leave the organization after a disappointing series with the Canadiens.
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Re: Black Wednesday behind the bench

Postby FLPensFan on Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:22 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:So is this a precursor to Mike Vellucci being added to the NHL staff and Botterill coming back as an assistant GM and to be WBS GM?

I can easily see Botterill coming back to be asst. GM just at the big club. That really seems like a no brainer at this point.

I'm not sure moving Velluci up to the big club makes much sense right now. Unless you feel like he is far and away going to help in one specific area, I'd keep him in WBS.

I'd prefer to see some people from outside the organization. Martin was the only one that really had no ties when he came here. Recchi and Gonchar had obvious ones.
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Re: Black Wednesday behind the bench

Postby KG on Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:25 pm

Sullivan talking to the media now about assistant coaches and roster philosophy. Guess that means he’s officially back next year.

Pick some good assistants Sully. Leash will be short next year.
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Re: Black Wednesday behind the bench

Postby penny lane on Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:29 pm

Mario being loyal, I am sure it was difficult to let Recchi go.

Alain Nasreddine ? A new voice!!! A young voice.
He was in the running for the devils job. Penguin connections.

Sullivan is speaking now- My God, really, truly the quote below.

Wes Crosby
@OtherNHLCrosby
· 22m
Sullivan says he doesn't know if he would've done anything differently in terms of lineup decisions against Montreal. #Pens
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Re: Black Wednesday behind the bench

Postby thehockeyguru on Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:32 pm

I dont often agree with MM but this is a valid point

"If you want to get their attention, you have to shoot a hostage. Firing assistant coaches doesn’t suffice.

It’s possible for the Penguins to contend by keeping the core intact. But it’s far from probable."

If this team returns with Crosby Malkin and Letang on the roster itll be another one and done playoffs.
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Re: Black Wednesday behind the bench

Postby pens_CT on Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:48 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:I dont often agree with MM but this is a valid point

"If you want to get their attention, you have to shoot a hostage. Firing assistant coaches doesn’t suffice.

It’s possible for the Penguins to contend by keeping the core intact. But it’s far from probable."

If this team returns with Crosby Malkin and Letang on the roster itll be another one and done playoffs.


If you think you can trade Crosby, Malkin, or Letang, and get a younger, cheaper, comparable talent in return either from the trade itself or via free agency then you do it. The only one of the three that you could possibly move and fit that criteria is Letang. Otherwise if all you want to do is get younger, then move all three and the team will be in NHL draft lottery for the next 5 years or so.
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Re: Black Wednesday behind the bench

Postby thehockeyguru on Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:55 pm

pens_CT wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:I dont often agree with MM but this is a valid point

"If you want to get their attention, you have to shoot a hostage. Firing assistant coaches doesn’t suffice.

It’s possible for the Penguins to contend by keeping the core intact. But it’s far from probable."

If this team returns with Crosby Malkin and Letang on the roster itll be another one and done playoffs.


If you think you can trade Crosby, Malkin, or Letang, and get a younger, cheaper, comparable talent in return either from the trade itself or via free agency then you do it. The only one of the three that you could possibly move and fit that criteria is Letang. Otherwise if all you want to do is get younger, then move all three and the team will be in NHL draft lottery for the next 5 years or so.


Id trade Letang and look to implement a new structured system.
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Re: Black Wednesday behind the bench

Postby lemieuxReturns on Wed Aug 12, 2020 2:52 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
pens_CT wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:I dont often agree with MM but this is a valid point

"If you want to get their attention, you have to shoot a hostage. Firing assistant coaches doesn’t suffice.

It’s possible for the Penguins to contend by keeping the core intact. But it’s far from probable."

If this team returns with Crosby Malkin and Letang on the roster itll be another one and done playoffs.


If you think you can trade Crosby, Malkin, or Letang, and get a younger, cheaper, comparable talent in return either from the trade itself or via free agency then you do it. The only one of the three that you could possibly move and fit that criteria is Letang. Otherwise if all you want to do is get younger, then move all three and the team will be in NHL draft lottery for the next 5 years or so.


Id trade Letang and look to implement a new structured system.


I would trade Letang and the rest of the high priced defense and go with a low-priced crap defensive core and spend the savings on offensive help. Its really no different than what we have had over the years with the exception this new plan saves money and allows you to load up on forwards.
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