Kapanen to PIT

Forum for Pittsburgh Penguins-related messages.

Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby brwi on Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:45 pm

FLPensFan wrote:Now, I do have questions about his hand. I looked at coaching, but his issues started after coming back from the hand injury (sliced tendons in a kitchen accident). Someone else here commented they've seen him play and he isn't good, maybe low hockey IQ. I don't recall.

I didn't mention low hockey IQ as I don't think Rask fits that like say a Galchenyuck; he just won't do what he needs to because he gives a minimal uninspired effort and is soff. Pure perimeter player who might could produce more if he would play between the dots in the offensive zone.
So, I'm not pushing for it saying this needs to be done, but I am saying if this trade were to go down....I'd rather have Rask on the roster than JJ. I think Rask would provide more value to the roster, and that's what is most important to me. I really don't care if Mario has to pay out more in actual salary. I do care about clearing cap space or moving space out in order to bring in better space.

First preference, move JJ, even with something else, and bring back an 8th round pick (yeah, I know).
If that isn't possible, then look at moving around bad contract for bad contract, preferably one that can be more helpful to the lineup than Johnson.


While a bad 6th dman in JJ is generally more of a liability than a bad 4th liner, why bother with either at this point? If you can't trade JJ along with someone of value, send him to WBS. No need having a player in Rask or similar guys who display the opposite of anything called "hungry" when you are trying to win now.
brwi
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 13,547
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 1:36 am

Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby Cow_Master66 on Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:01 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
Cow_Master66 wrote:
Wyopen wrote:A great number on this board do not like this trade, but I’m willing to see how this plays out on ice before making a judgement. When I watched Kapanen play (tv of course) I wish the Pens had him. Maybe they gave up too much, but who knows at this point. I was more upset with Addison being traded + a first. What I’m concerned about is this; GMs now know JR will over pay in a trade. You would think there would be “honor” amongst the GMs for fair trades but I guess not. I really don’t expect much from a Murray trade. GMs know JR is in a bind and will undercut him.


I think it’s more people here overvalue draft picks. Win now is the approach and draft picks be damned is the approach. The window is closing, but unless u think it’s closed now, you just go for it. If you are approaching the draft with the 2023 season in mind, then the window is definitely closed from your point of view... with the cap issues and age of the core there’s no way to go about this without trading futures.

I still think they may trade Rust as well, but only because they probably can’t move Horny.

We should all enjoy the last 3 years of this ride and worry about the future after it’s too late.

I thought about trading Rust at one point. Sell high. He's cheap for the output he gave last season, and only has 2 more cheap seasons left.

But, in win-now mode, you don't worry about him possibly getting a larger contract in 2 years. Rust is too valuable to this team to deal for something else. He plays the way this team wants to play, as evidenced by them getting Zucker, who is almost a clone of Rust.


I’m a huge Rust fan, it’s just a hunch on my part...I tend to believe JR when he says the team needs a shake up and guys are comfortable....I don’t personally think they will move McCann and I don’t think they can move Horny and improve the team this year. Unless there’s a bunch of moving parts with a Murray/Horny deal (probably 3 teams) then Rust is just the most logical option...hunch it will be another Hagelin situation....
Cow_Master66
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 821
Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 9:41 am

Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby murphydump55 on Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:22 am

no name wrote:Kapenen Crosby Guentzel
Rust Malkin Zucker

is this what we are looking at?


It’s Kapanen, and he’s a RW. Zucker is a LW. Guentzel is LW.
murphydump55
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 14,794
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:06 pm
Location: the real hockeyville and apparently a janitor from Eastern Canada LOL

Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby Jim on Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:37 am

murphydump55 wrote:
no name wrote:Kapenen Crosby Guentzel
Rust Malkin Zucker

is this what we are looking at?


It’s Kapanen, and he’s a RW. Zucker is a LW. Guentzel is LW.


The one that bugs me is when people do C, W, W.

Is it really that difficult to do L, C, R?
Jim
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 18,568
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:18 pm
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:38 am

So, the general consensus around the league is that the Penguins badly overpaid for Kapanen. There were as many as 6 teams in the mix, including Carolina (who Toronto wanted to get their #13 overall pick back) and Chicago with #17 overall. Several other teams were asked for their 1st round pick IN A PACKAGE to get Kapanen. Everyone else said no to the 1st rounder, and Rutherford won out. Here's why, a few days later, I don't think this was as bad as everyone in the national media thinks it was for Pittsburgh:

1. Kapanen is the guy GMJR targeted. He checks a lot of boxes in that he is young, fast, RH shot, and generally good defensively.
2. Rutherford lacked picks. If everyone said no to the 1st rounder, eventually, Toronto probably would have had to settle for a 2nd and a high prospect. Pittsburgh doesn't have a 2nd.
3. Rutherford lacks prospects. The Penguins prospect pool is thin. Again, if everyone said no to the 1st, Toronto likely would have had to settle for a 2nd, and likely would have asked for a better prospect. For the Penguins, that would be Poulin, Legare, or POJ, and I don't think Rutherford would give up those guys....plus he had no 2nd to offer.
4. Rutherford had soured on Hallander. I was trying to find the articles, but I am fairly certain when GMJR traded Addison as part of the Zucker deal, he lamented and explained sometimes you have to give a good player/prospect to get what you want. That wasn't the case with Hallander. What you heard was, we felt he was going to be several years away still, AND....they no longer viewed him as a top 6 potential prospect.

Hate to give up #15 overall, but, if you have seen some of my trade proposals a few weeks back, guys like Legare and Hallander were often included because they were are "better" prospects, but also the ones further away from being able to help at the NHL level.
FLPensFan
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 14,808
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:30 pm
Location: South Florida

Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby pens_CT on Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:58 am

FLPensFan wrote:So, the general consensus around the league is that the Penguins badly overpaid for Kapanen. There were as many as 6 teams in the mix, including Carolina (who Toronto wanted to get their #13 overall pick back) and Chicago with #17 overall. Several other teams were asked for their 1st round pick IN A PACKAGE to get Kapanen. Everyone else said no to the 1st rounder, and Rutherford won out. Here's why, a few days later, I don't think this was as bad as everyone in the national media thinks it was for Pittsburgh:

1. Kapanen is the guy GMJR targeted. He checks a lot of boxes in that he is young, fast, RH shot, and generally good defensively.
2. Rutherford lacked picks. If everyone said no to the 1st rounder, eventually, Toronto probably would have had to settle for a 2nd and a high prospect. Pittsburgh doesn't have a 2nd.
3. Rutherford lacks prospects. The Penguins prospect pool is thin. Again, if everyone said no to the 1st, Toronto likely would have had to settle for a 2nd, and likely would have asked for a better prospect. For the Penguins, that would be Poulin, Legare, or POJ, and I don't think Rutherford would give up those guys....plus he had no 2nd to offer.
4. Rutherford had soured on Hallander. I was trying to find the articles, but I am fairly certain when GMJR traded Addison as part of the Zucker deal, he lamented and explained sometimes you have to give a good player/prospect to get what you want. That wasn't the case with Hallander. What you heard was, we felt he was going to be several years away still, AND....they no longer viewed him as a top 6 potential prospect.

Hate to give up #15 overall, but, if you have seen some of my trade proposals a few weeks back, guys like Legare and Hallander were often included because they were are "better" prospects, but also the ones further away from being able to help at the NHL level.


I think each team is in a different position. Most of the teams drafting ahead of Pittsburgh are more than one player away from being a serious playoff contender. If you're in that stage why would you give up a 1st round pick for Kapanen? It's not like he's a point per game player (or at least hasn't shown that ability so far).

The basis behind the trade is that Rutherford thinks this core is still capable, with additional help of winning a cup. If you agree with that the trade makes sense, if you believe those three guys are over the hill, then it doesn't make much sense.

The trade from Toronto's POV is pretty simple, reduce the cap hit. That team is driven by the offense in the top six, so they will not miss Kapanen much from that perspective.

People are going way overboard on Hallander. Only time will tell what kind of player he might be, but to date he looks like a decent bottom six forward. While that type of player is important on a team, its not exactly a type of player that you can't find by trade or the UFA market.
pens_CT
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,510
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 6:47 pm

Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby KG on Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:46 am

FLPensFan wrote:So, the general consensus around the league is that the Penguins badly overpaid for Kapanen. There were as many as 6 teams in the mix, including Carolina (who Toronto wanted to get their #13 overall pick back) and Chicago with #17 overall. Several other teams were asked for their 1st round pick IN A PACKAGE to get Kapanen. Everyone else said no to the 1st rounder, and Rutherford won out. Here's why, a few days later, I don't think this was as bad as everyone in the national media thinks it was for Pittsburgh:

1. Kapanen is the guy GMJR targeted. He checks a lot of boxes in that he is young, fast, RH shot, and generally good defensively.
2. Rutherford lacked picks. If everyone said no to the 1st rounder, eventually, Toronto probably would have had to settle for a 2nd and a high prospect. Pittsburgh doesn't have a 2nd.
3. Rutherford lacks prospects. The Penguins prospect pool is thin. Again, if everyone said no to the 1st, Toronto likely would have had to settle for a 2nd, and likely would have asked for a better prospect. For the Penguins, that would be Poulin, Legare, or POJ, and I don't think Rutherford would give up those guys....plus he had no 2nd to offer.
4. Rutherford had soured on Hallander. I was trying to find the articles, but I am fairly certain when GMJR traded Addison as part of the Zucker deal, he lamented and explained sometimes you have to give a good player/prospect to get what you want. That wasn't the case with Hallander. What you heard was, we felt he was going to be several years away still, AND....they no longer viewed him as a top 6 potential prospect.

Hate to give up #15 overall, but, if you have seen some of my trade proposals a few weeks back, guys like Legare and Hallander were often included because they were are "better" prospects, but also the ones further away from being able to help at the NHL level.


I agree. Well said. Many are acting like Kapanen is a finished product. He is 24. He is only going to get better as he is going to be given every opportunity to be a big time part of this team going forward. If Sully starts to pull the Pearson treatment on Kapanen then I"m sure JR will intercede. Kapanen is JR's boy! Kapenen calls him "Jimmy" lol

I really don't have a problem with the trade. If he produces and meshes in the top 6 then you have a $3.2mill top 6 young wing. Those are hard to find. I don't see why Kapanen can't get 25 goals next year and be an important player on the PK and PP units.
KG
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 18,087
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:53 am
Location: NY

Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby Pitts on Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:32 pm

Jim wrote:
murphydump55 wrote:
no name wrote:Kapenen Crosby Guentzel
Rust Malkin Zucker

is this what we are looking at?


It’s Kapanen, and he’s a RW. Zucker is a LW. Guentzel is LW.


The one that bugs me is when people do C, W, W.

Is it really that difficult to do L, C, R?

Or, we could just not be whiny internet police and understand what the poster implies.
Pitts
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 22,276
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:22 am
Location: Working ....

Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby sjnhiils on Thu Aug 27, 2020 1:01 pm

pens_CT wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:So, the general consensus around the league is that the Penguins badly overpaid for Kapanen. There were as many as 6 teams in the mix, including Carolina (who Toronto wanted to get their #13 overall pick back) and Chicago with #17 overall. Several other teams were asked for their 1st round pick IN A PACKAGE to get Kapanen. Everyone else said no to the 1st rounder, and Rutherford won out. Here's why, a few days later, I don't think this was as bad as everyone in the national media thinks it was for Pittsburgh:

1. Kapanen is the guy GMJR targeted. He checks a lot of boxes in that he is young, fast, RH shot, and generally good defensively.
2. Rutherford lacked picks. If everyone said no to the 1st rounder, eventually, Toronto probably would have had to settle for a 2nd and a high prospect. Pittsburgh doesn't have a 2nd.
3. Rutherford lacks prospects. The Penguins prospect pool is thin. Again, if everyone said no to the 1st, Toronto likely would have had to settle for a 2nd, and likely would have asked for a better prospect. For the Penguins, that would be Poulin, Legare, or POJ, and I don't think Rutherford would give up those guys....plus he had no 2nd to offer.
4. Rutherford had soured on Hallander. I was trying to find the articles, but I am fairly certain when GMJR traded Addison as part of the Zucker deal, he lamented and explained sometimes you have to give a good player/prospect to get what you want. That wasn't the case with Hallander. What you heard was, we felt he was going to be several years away still, AND....they no longer viewed him as a top 6 potential prospect.

Hate to give up #15 overall, but, if you have seen some of my trade proposals a few weeks back, guys like Legare and Hallander were often included because they were are "better" prospects, but also the ones further away from being able to help at the NHL level.


I think each team is in a different position. Most of the teams drafting ahead of Pittsburgh are more than one player away from being a serious playoff contender. If you're in that stage why would you give up a 1st round pick for Kapanen? It's not like he's a point per game player (or at least hasn't shown that ability so far).

The basis behind the trade is that Rutherford thinks this core is still capable, with additional help of winning a cup. If you agree with that the trade makes sense, if you believe those three guys are over the hill, then it doesn't make much sense.

The trade from Toronto's POV is pretty simple, reduce the cap hit. That team is driven by the offense in the top six, so they will not miss Kapanen much from that perspective.

People are going way overboard on Hallander. Only time will tell what kind of player he might be, but to date he looks like a decent bottom six forward. While that type of player is important on a team, its not exactly a type of player that you can't find by trade or the UFA market.

Yea, those trades and free agents have really solidified their bottom 6 since they won their last Cup.
sjnhiils
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 2,319
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:32 pm

Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby Jim on Thu Aug 27, 2020 1:03 pm

Pitts wrote:
Jim wrote:
murphydump55 wrote:
no name wrote:Kapenen Crosby Guentzel
Rust Malkin Zucker

is this what we are looking at?


It’s Kapanen, and he’s a RW. Zucker is a LW. Guentzel is LW.


The one that bugs me is when people do C, W, W.

Is it really that difficult to do L, C, R?

Or, we could just not be whiny internet police and understand what the poster implies.


.. whines the internet police?

:pop:
Jim
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 18,568
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:18 pm
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby Hatrick on Fri Aug 28, 2020 2:03 am

FLPensFan wrote:So, the general consensus around the league is that the Penguins badly overpaid for Kapanen. There were as many as 6 teams in the mix, including Carolina (who Toronto wanted to get their #13 overall pick back) and Chicago with #17 overall. Several other teams were asked for their 1st round pick IN A PACKAGE to get Kapanen. Everyone else said no to the 1st rounder, and Rutherford won out. Here's why, a few days later, I don't think this was as bad as everyone in the national media thinks it was for Pittsburgh:

1. Kapanen is the guy GMJR targeted. He checks a lot of boxes in that he is young, fast, RH shot, and generally good defensively.
2. Rutherford lacked picks. If everyone said no to the 1st rounder, eventually, Toronto probably would have had to settle for a 2nd and a high prospect. Pittsburgh doesn't have a 2nd.
3. Rutherford lacks prospects. The Penguins prospect pool is thin. Again, if everyone said no to the 1st, Toronto likely would have had to settle for a 2nd, and likely would have asked for a better prospect. For the Penguins, that would be Poulin, Legare, or POJ, and I don't think Rutherford would give up those guys....plus he had no 2nd to offer.
4. Rutherford had soured on Hallander. I was trying to find the articles, but I am fairly certain when GMJR traded Addison as part of the Zucker deal, he lamented and explained sometimes you have to give a good player/prospect to get what you want. That wasn't the case with Hallander. What you heard was, we felt he was going to be several years away still, AND....they no longer viewed him as a top 6 potential prospect.

Hate to give up #15 overall, but, if you have seen some of my trade proposals a few weeks back, guys like Legare and Hallander were often included because they were are "better" prospects, but also the ones further away from being able to help at the NHL level.

I do not mind giving up our first, and I do not mind giving up Hallander(and the other two I don't really care about). I do mind giving up both together. If other teams would have been wiling to do second and a prospect, while the pens don't have a second to match that, they could just offer the first(which I would view as higher package than a second and a prospect) or they could have got a pick back from Toronto(I don't know which picks they have available off top of my head and which ones they traded, but a second or third back seems reasonable since the pens threw in both the first and hallander).

The fact this follows up the Zucker trade is actually what worries me more. That is two trades in a row that GMJR has given up a first AND a prospect(with Addison being the better of the two prospects) for a winger who is good but frankly not worth a first and a prospect. Hopefully that pick next year is in the 30s that Minnesota gets. But even if it ends up being in the mid20s which is the most likely scenario, that is the 15th pick, 20something pick, Addison, plus Hallander, for only Zucker and Kapanen to show for it. They are solid players but that is a very very lopsided package not in our favor.
Hatrick
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 949
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2017 10:48 pm

Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby murphydump55 on Fri Aug 28, 2020 7:26 am

KG wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:So, the general consensus around the league is that the Penguins badly overpaid for Kapanen. There were as many as 6 teams in the mix, including Carolina (who Toronto wanted to get their #13 overall pick back) and Chicago with #17 overall. Several other teams were asked for their 1st round pick IN A PACKAGE to get Kapanen. Everyone else said no to the 1st rounder, and Rutherford won out. Here's why, a few days later, I don't think this was as bad as everyone in the national media thinks it was for Pittsburgh:

1. Kapanen is the guy GMJR targeted. He checks a lot of boxes in that he is young, fast, RH shot, and generally good defensively.
2. Rutherford lacked picks. If everyone said no to the 1st rounder, eventually, Toronto probably would have had to settle for a 2nd and a high prospect. Pittsburgh doesn't have a 2nd.
3. Rutherford lacks prospects. The Penguins prospect pool is thin. Again, if everyone said no to the 1st, Toronto likely would have had to settle for a 2nd, and likely would have asked for a better prospect. For the Penguins, that would be Poulin, Legare, or POJ, and I don't think Rutherford would give up those guys....plus he had no 2nd to offer.
4. Rutherford had soured on Hallander. I was trying to find the articles, but I am fairly certain when GMJR traded Addison as part of the Zucker deal, he lamented and explained sometimes you have to give a good player/prospect to get what you want. That wasn't the case with Hallander. What you heard was, we felt he was going to be several years away still, AND....they no longer viewed him as a top 6 potential prospect.

Hate to give up #15 overall, but, if you have seen some of my trade proposals a few weeks back, guys like Legare and Hallander were often included because they were are "better" prospects, but also the ones further away from being able to help at the NHL level.


I agree. Well said. Many are acting like Kapanen is a finished product. He is 24. He is only going to get better as he is going to be given every opportunity to be a big time part of this team going forward. If Sully starts to pull the Pearson treatment on Kapanen then I"m sure JR will intercede. Kapanen is JR's boy! Kapenen calls him "Jimmy" lol

I really don't have a problem with the trade. If he produces and meshes in the top 6 then you have a $3.2mill top 6 young wing. Those are hard to find. I don't see why Kapanen can't get 25 goals next year and be an important player on the PK and PP units.


Because his impact on the PP has been pretty bad to this point?

Or are we Gonchar’ing him here? They’ll fix him by inserting him on an awful power play.
murphydump55
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 14,794
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:06 pm
Location: the real hockeyville and apparently a janitor from Eastern Canada LOL

Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby pens_CT on Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:21 am

murphydump55 wrote:
KG wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:So, the general consensus around the league is that the Penguins badly overpaid for Kapanen. There were as many as 6 teams in the mix, including Carolina (who Toronto wanted to get their #13 overall pick back) and Chicago with #17 overall. Several other teams were asked for their 1st round pick IN A PACKAGE to get Kapanen. Everyone else said no to the 1st rounder, and Rutherford won out. Here's why, a few days later, I don't think this was as bad as everyone in the national media thinks it was for Pittsburgh:

1. Kapanen is the guy GMJR targeted. He checks a lot of boxes in that he is young, fast, RH shot, and generally good defensively.
2. Rutherford lacked picks. If everyone said no to the 1st rounder, eventually, Toronto probably would have had to settle for a 2nd and a high prospect. Pittsburgh doesn't have a 2nd.
3. Rutherford lacks prospects. The Penguins prospect pool is thin. Again, if everyone said no to the 1st, Toronto likely would have had to settle for a 2nd, and likely would have asked for a better prospect. For the Penguins, that would be Poulin, Legare, or POJ, and I don't think Rutherford would give up those guys....plus he had no 2nd to offer.
4. Rutherford had soured on Hallander. I was trying to find the articles, but I am fairly certain when GMJR traded Addison as part of the Zucker deal, he lamented and explained sometimes you have to give a good player/prospect to get what you want. That wasn't the case with Hallander. What you heard was, we felt he was going to be several years away still, AND....they no longer viewed him as a top 6 potential prospect.

Hate to give up #15 overall, but, if you have seen some of my trade proposals a few weeks back, guys like Legare and Hallander were often included because they were are "better" prospects, but also the ones further away from being able to help at the NHL level.


I agree. Well said. Many are acting like Kapanen is a finished product. He is 24. He is only going to get better as he is going to be given every opportunity to be a big time part of this team going forward. If Sully starts to pull the Pearson treatment on Kapanen then I"m sure JR will intercede. Kapanen is JR's boy! Kapenen calls him "Jimmy" lol

I really don't have a problem with the trade. If he produces and meshes in the top 6 then you have a $3.2mill top 6 young wing. Those are hard to find. I don't see why Kapanen can't get 25 goals next year and be an important player on the PK and PP units.


Because his impact on the PP has been pretty bad to this point?

Or are we Gonchar’ing him here? They’ll fix him by inserting him on an awful power play.


Can Kapanen be any worse than the revolving door of players they tried last year at the LW faceoff circle? He would appear to have the shot that work's in that location, the fact that he didn't get much PP time in Toronto has more to due with Marner, Nylander, Tavares and Matthews being ahead of him rather his play.
pens_CT
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,510
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 6:47 pm

Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby Pensfan4life8771 on Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:54 am

I agree with you...Kappy is an upgrade 10x over Simon/Sheary.
Pensfan4life8771
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,010
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:44 pm

Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby longtimefan on Fri Aug 28, 2020 10:36 am

There was an article in the Athletic yesterday to grade all of JR's 50 trades since becoming Pens GM. The grades have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight. Some of them were minor deals, even minor league. But the results are telling if you compare them to the perception of the trade when made. Here's a few of the highlights.

https://theathletic.com/2024632/2020/08 ... l-of-them/

Hornqvist/Neal- This was lambasted from the beginning. Not a failure, but certainly no better than a C. Everybody was ticked off JR didn't get more. It was a popular talking point on here, at least until the Pens won a Cup.

In hindsight, the panel gave it an A+.

Lovejoy/Despres- The trade was considered a disaster when it was announced, and it didn't get better when the Pens were elimimated in 5 games in Rd 1. But Lovejoy ended up a key piece in a bottom pairing role in 2016. This deal would have been given an F at the time they made it. No one could foresee Despres' health misfortunes, but the end result is what's graded now.

In hindsight, the panel gave it an A-.

Kessel/Kapanen- This got some mixed play, but was not universally lauded. Many felt that Phil wasn't capable of playing for a contender. There was also a concern that Phil wouldn't age well, and that the Pens would find it difficult to move him. To a degree, it wasn't easy, although it was the NMC, not his cap hit, that made it so difficult.

In hindsight, Phil won two cups, and the panel gives it an A+.

Brassard coming- After this trade, JR was being lauded as a genius. Many thought he had acquired a third straight cup. JR went and got the best target available to man the 3C. He did cap gymnastics that were thought to be out of reach.

In hindsight, the panel gave this deal 2 F's. One for the deal with Ottawa, and the second was the salary dump of Reaves to make space.

Brassard going- This deal got decent reviews, more so because of Brassard's departure. Bjugstad was acceptable, and we knew little about McCann. It's still a WIP because we don't know the final results of exactly what was received. The panel admitted McCann's bad finish lowered this grade. If I were to guess, I'd say the board's reaction was maybe a C+ or B-.

In hindsight, the panel gave it a D. They put too much credence in what was given up to bring Brassard in IMO. That ship has sailed, and this deal should have been graded as it's own entity. It's incomplete at this point. McCann is young. If he reaches his potential, this deal can still end up a win.

Kessel out- This deal got a lot of mixed reactions, but was largely panned on the boards. It didn't help that the Wild deal was vetoed by Kessel. Galchenyuk's play had many downgrading their grades. POJ was in WBS, and was all we could count on. Not much of a return for PK. Although, the NMC was given it's fair share of blame.

The panel's grade was an A-. I take exception again with them putting stock into the eventual Zucker trade. This deal should be judged solely on it's merit. I honestly can't see better than a C+ or B- presently. POJ hasn't played in an NHL game, and Galchenyuk sucked. Phil's sucking helped raise the grade. Like a lot of these deals, they're still incomplete and may change.

Marino- If you look at JR's body of work, this has to be included. The reaction on the board is there wasn't much of one. Camp fodder. A former 6th round pick. Nothing to see here.

The panel gave this the only grade you can at this point, an A+. There's still a lot for Marino to prove, but this one may end up in the rights to Kevin Stevens for Anders Hakansson category as one of the great steals in franchise history.

Zucker- There was a lot of wailing. Many saw Zucker as an overrated and overpaid player. The distress was more caused by the cost, which many considered outrageous. JR was the first to make a move. In hindsight, this deal has been lauded by some national sources as the best of the deadline season. A lot of that has to do with other deals that came later. It didn't seem as bad of an overpay when you saw Tampa give up a similar package for Blake Coleman.

The panel gives this an A-, lauding it as the right deal for the moment. The feeling is that he was the prototypical wing for the Pens system.

The panel consisted of Rossi, Yohe, and Gentile. There were a ton of C's for low key and minor league deals. A few more F's like the Kahun deal. Marleau got a D-. He also had his A's such as Bonino and Daley. There wasn't a lot of hair pulling on these though, with the exception of the Kahun deal. The Daley deal was a huge win, but certainly not criticized much on here. Largely, the same holds true with the Bonino deal. Sutter had to go, and it seemed like good value. The biggest complaint was that JR had signed Fehr to supposedly be the 3C early the same day. Regardless, it worked out OK.

They give the Kapanen deal a C+. We'll see down the road if this changes. The point of it is that many things change over time, and preliminary grades are fun, but without real merit. The grades that matter are the ones after the fact, not at the time of the trade.
longtimefan
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,019
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:33 pm

Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby Jim on Fri Aug 28, 2020 10:51 am

I was head over heals when the Hornqvist/Neal trade went down. It also was the start of a very fun time on the board for me.
Jim
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 18,568
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:18 pm
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby lemieuxReturns on Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:37 am

I *hated* the Hornqvist deal. We had a 40 goal-scorer and actual winger for Geno and traded him away.
In retrospect I was obviously wrong.

But I do want to get Geno a legit wing again
lemieuxReturns
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,431
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:00 pm

Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby ville5 on Sun Aug 30, 2020 12:28 pm

Pitts wrote:
KG wrote:He is 24 signed for 2 more years at $3.2Mill. Will probably be on Sid's wing and could easily get to 30 goals.

What makes you assume this? All the talent he played with in Toronto?

He's scored 20 already. And he's only averaged 16:37 and 15:47 atoi in his 2 full seasons. It's not out of the realm of possibility.
And only 6 of his 90 points are on the power play.(5SH goals.) Especially if he gets some top power play time and sticks with Sid or Evgeni.
ville5
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 8,498
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 2:17 pm
Location: getting body slammed by kelly kelly

Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby ville5 on Sun Aug 30, 2020 12:32 pm

FLPensFan wrote:From Pierre LeBrun in his Athletic article today:

"According to sources, the Leafs spoke to the likes of New Jersey, Nashville, Anaheim, Minnesota, Chicago and Carolina about Kapanen, signed to a reasonable deal at a $3.2-million AAV and controllable overall for three more years (he’s RFA at the end of the deal)."

They wanted their 13th overall pick from Carolina, who said no. Pretty much every team here is thought to have been asked for at least their 1st round pick for Kapanen, and all these teams said no. I'm not saying this as a negative, just that Rutherford jumped at the opportunity that others were passing on. Minnesota is said to have had a little bit further discussions with Toronto, and Montreal and Edmonton also had interest. So I think GMJR was ok with giving up his first, and, possibly knowing the level of interest, decided to make the move because this is a player he liked, always thought was a fit, and didn't want to lose out on with the heavy potential interest.

I've read there were 13 teams interested and Toronto's ask was a first plus. Example- I've read the ask from NJ was Zacha and one of their firsts. Who knows for sure. There was certainly interest.
ville5
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 8,498
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 2:17 pm
Location: getting body slammed by kelly kelly

Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby thehockeyguru on Sun Aug 30, 2020 1:13 pm

lemieuxReturns wrote:I *hated* the Hornqvist deal. We had a 40 goal-scorer and actual winger for Geno and traded him away.
In retrospect I was obviously wrong.

But I do want to get Geno a legit wing again


Here's my take on the deal, Neal had way more value than Hornqvist at the time but Hornqvist was something we needed to add to the team. The Pens should have gotten more from Nashville period.

It's like going into a restaurant with $20 and seeing your favorite food on the menu for $12. You dont pay $20 because it's for favorite, you pay $12 and take your change. Its like Rutherford gets so excited he doesn't care what he pays as long as he gets his favorite.
thehockeyguru
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 17,773
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:43 pm
Location: I'm 30 minutes away, I'll be there in 10.

Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby pens_CT on Sun Aug 30, 2020 1:54 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:I *hated* the Hornqvist deal. We had a 40 goal-scorer and actual winger for Geno and traded him away.
In retrospect I was obviously wrong.

But I do want to get Geno a legit wing again


Here's my take on the deal, Neal had way more value than Hornqvist at the time but Hornqvist was something we needed to add to the team. The Pens should have gotten more from Nashville period.

It's like going into a restaurant with $20 and seeing your favorite food on the menu for $12. You dont pay $20 because it's for favorite, you pay $12 and take your change. Its like Rutherford gets so excited he doesn't care what he pays as long as he gets his favorite.


Meh Neal was a one-trick pony who wasn't a very smart hockey player. Hit Neal a couple of times, and you would get inside his head, and he would enviably take a stupid penalty or two. I remember in the 2017 SCF when he took a 2nd minor, during a delayed penalty call in game 1 which led to a Malkin PP goal, and when he tried to take out Hainsey in Game 5, and instead got his own player and the boards which lead to a Hainsey goal. He had one good season here, and beyond that he's been shuffled through multiple organizations. We did get a second asset back in Spaling who was a bottom six guy at best. Not sure how much you expect for a guy in Neal who was far from being a complete player.
pens_CT
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,510
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 6:47 pm

Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby Jim on Sun Aug 30, 2020 2:30 pm

pens_CT wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:I *hated* the Hornqvist deal. We had a 40 goal-scorer and actual winger for Geno and traded him away.
In retrospect I was obviously wrong.

But I do want to get Geno a legit wing again


Here's my take on the deal, Neal had way more value than Hornqvist at the time but Hornqvist was something we needed to add to the team. The Pens should have gotten more from Nashville period.

It's like going into a restaurant with $20 and seeing your favorite food on the menu for $12. You dont pay $20 because it's for favorite, you pay $12 and take your change. Its like Rutherford gets so excited he doesn't care what he pays as long as he gets his favorite.


Meh Neal was a one-trick pony who wasn't a very smart hockey player. Hit Neal a couple of times, and you would get inside his head, and he would enviably take a stupid penalty or two. I remember in the 2017 SCF when he took a 2nd minor, during a delayed penalty call in game 1 which led to a Malkin PP goal, and when he tried to take out Hainsey in Game 5, and instead got his own player and the boards which lead to a Hainsey goal. He had one good season here, and beyond that he's been shuffled through multiple organizations. We did get a second asset back in Spaling who was a bottom six guy at best. Not sure how much you expect for a guy in Neal who was far from being a complete player.


Nashville regretted that trade almost immediately. Pittsburgh never did.

A lot of Penguin fans have fond memories of Neal, but they are wrong.

I did like the one-timer goals off of the faceoff. But that trade was a big Pittsburgh win.
Jim
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 18,568
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:18 pm
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby ville5 on Sun Aug 30, 2020 2:33 pm

Neal- 6 teams, 12 seasons.
ville5
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 8,498
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 2:17 pm
Location: getting body slammed by kelly kelly

Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby thehockeyguru on Sun Aug 30, 2020 3:50 pm

Jim wrote:
pens_CT wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:I *hated* the Hornqvist deal. We had a 40 goal-scorer and actual winger for Geno and traded him away.
In retrospect I was obviously wrong.

But I do want to get Geno a legit wing again


Here's my take on the deal, Neal had way more value than Hornqvist at the time but Hornqvist was something we needed to add to the team. The Pens should have gotten more from Nashville period.

It's like going into a restaurant with $20 and seeing your favorite food on the menu for $12. You dont pay $20 because it's for favorite, you pay $12 and take your change. Its like Rutherford gets so excited he doesn't care what he pays as long as he gets his favorite.


Meh Neal was a one-trick pony who wasn't a very smart hockey player. Hit Neal a couple of times, and you would get inside his head, and he would enviably take a stupid penalty or two. I remember in the 2017 SCF when he took a 2nd minor, during a delayed penalty call in game 1 which led to a Malkin PP goal, and when he tried to take out Hainsey in Game 5, and instead got his own player and the boards which lead to a Hainsey goal. He had one good season here, and beyond that he's been shuffled through multiple organizations. We did get a second asset back in Spaling who was a bottom six guy at best. Not sure how much you expect for a guy in Neal who was far from being a complete player.


Nashville regretted that trade almost immediately. Pittsburgh never did.

A lot of Penguin fans have fond memories of Neal, but they are wrong.

I did like the one-timer goals off of the faceoff. But that trade was a big Pittsburgh win.


Getting to play with Malkin or Crosby in their prime made quite a few players look better than they were and Neal was certainly one. Over three seasons Neal was a point per game player in the regular season and scored 40 goals. I still think Neal should have brought in another decent piece instead of Spaling.

Neal though was known to be an idiot off the ice so I dont know if that reduced his value..
thehockeyguru
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 17,773
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:43 pm
Location: I'm 30 minutes away, I'll be there in 10.

Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby netwolf on Mon Aug 31, 2020 5:34 pm

I didn't like the Hornqvist deal at the time, but it's hard not to view it as a net positive now. I don't think it was an A+ deal though for two reasons. First, Spaling was a drag on the deal. He gave them very little on the ice. A mid-sized prospect or puck would've been better. I think that might have been the year a cap crunch forced the Pens to dress 5 D too, which isn't ideal. Second, the offense they lost for an improved "fit" was addressed with the addition of Kessel later on. The Hornqvist/Neal swap probably needed to happen, but if they don't get Kessel to make up for the list goals, I don't know if that swap is viewed as successful.
netwolf
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 15,827
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:04 am

PreviousNext

Return to Pittsburgh Penguins

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Cheeez, dj2wicks, Pruezy11881 and 16 guests


e-mail