Kapanen to PIT

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Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby lemieuxReturns on Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:13 pm

I hope the Pens free up some space and go after either Hall or Dadonov this summer. Geno needs a legit wing this season.
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Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby Cim2217 on Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:13 pm

I believe you have to take your shots while the Crosby/Malkin era is still going strong. Both are generational talents, and you gotta give them as much ammo as you can before they start to decline with age.

Does Kapanen move the needle there? I don’t know? He’s better than Simon, so he’s an upgrade in that respect. He’s fast, a righty, a PK threat.

More moves are on the horizon, and the finished product is far from complete. The top 6 seems to be set as of now. Does Rutherford want to pay Horny 5 mill to be on the third line? Who’s willing to take Bjugstad? How much will McCann get, or will he be traded? Who’s giving us the best package for Murray?

Lots of questions, todays trade is just the beginning of what seems like a very active offseason.
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Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby pens_CT on Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:16 pm

Cim2217 wrote:I believe you have to take your shots while the Crosby/Malkin era is still going strong. Both are generational talents, and you gotta give them as much ammo as you can before they start to decline with age.

Does Kapanen move the needle there? I don’t know? He’s better than Simon, so he’s an upgrade in that respect. He’s fast, a righty, a PK threat.

More moves are on the horizon, and the finished product is far from complete. The top 6 seems to be set as of now. Does Rutherford want to pay Horny 5 mill to be on the third line? Who’s willing to take Bjugstad? How much will McCann get, or will he be traded? Who’s giving us the best package for Murray?

Lots of questions, todays trade is just the beginning of what seems like a very active offseason.


People want to judge the entire off-season based on one move. They obviously need to make more, in order to get this team back to being a contender.
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Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby GSdrums87 on Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:19 pm

You have to assume the mindset for the top 6 right now is:

Guentzel - Crosby - Kapanen
Zucker - Malkin - Rust

So they're assuming the hole on top RW is filled. I'm not convinced, but whatever.

So now the next move is gonna be Murray, and the remaining holes are at 3C and RD.

You gotta assume Murray is being shopped for a 3C. Ever the optimist, I'm still pulling for Strome from Chicago.

Realistically, it'll probably be less whelming. Don't be stunned to see Murray get an extension and then be traded shortly after.

Also don't be stunned to see Jarry traded and Murray signed for 8 years $8 million per, because that's just what Rutherford does.
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Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby thehockeyguru on Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:21 pm

Ohio_Pens_fan wrote:So is Murray going to Calgary (Bennett) or Ottawa (Tierney)? Not straight up of course.


Murray and Bjugstad for Tierney
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Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby KG on Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:22 pm

People are overreacting and overvaluing the 15th overall pick. Every deadline teams trade a 1st round pick for UFA rentals! (Winnipeg traded a 1st round pick and Lemieux for Kevin Hayes) It happens every year. 2nd round picks for Dillon, 3rd round pick for Marleau. All rentals.

Here we traded a 1st for a much needed 24 year old, speedy, talented RW that fits what this team is looking to do.

If Kapanen continues to develop into a top 6 RW and scores 25 goals 50 points, plays on the PP and PK then it's a fair trade.
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Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby Cim2217 on Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:23 pm

If we could land a Hall or Hoffman, Zucker then goes to third line LW, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing. He’s a 50-60 point guy historically, although he never played with the talents that are 87/71, so Zucker could have an offensive outburst.
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Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby pens_CT on Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:25 pm

Pitts wrote:
pens_CT wrote:
Pitts wrote:
pens_CT wrote:
Jim wrote:Rodrigues wasn't part of the plan, Warsofsky is an AHLer.
Aberg is alos an AHLer and a RFA, maybe will not get qualified? Lindgren is an Addison replacement.

Kapanen, Lindgren for #15, Hallander.

Toronto fan reaction seems overwhelmingly that they love this trade for them.

I wonder if Rutherford simply has ZERO trust in his amateur scouts.

Another Rutherford trade in the L column for me.


You consider it a L because:

(A) You expect the first round pick would make the team next year

(B) You love seeing Simon on the first line

(C) You see Hallander as the next Markus Naslund

(D) You don't see next year's team as being a contender regardless of who they acquire, so they just might as well sell

(A) NO
(B) NO
(C) NO
(D) NO

Literally none of your points downplay the fact that this is a horribly unbalanced trade.


What in your mind makes it an unbalanced trade?

No need to include that #15 pick unless something else is brewing.


I wasn't a fan of trading the pick, but unless you think the guy you're getting at that spot is better than Kapanen, and is NHL ready next year, then your pis*ing another year away with 87 & 71 trying to play Hornqvist or Simon in that spot in the top six.
Last edited by pens_CT on Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby FLPensFan on Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:28 pm

OK, now that I've had a chance to step away, eat some lunch, etc, I've calmed down a bit on this trade. If you want to feel better about this trade, this is the best terms I can put the trade....

--I don't care about Rodrigues, Warsofsky, or Lindgren. These were throw aways. We weren't going to resign Rodrigues, Warsofsky was horrible and passed by Trotman and Czuczman in terms of veteran AHL depth, and Lindgren seems like nothing more than AHL depth.

--I don't know that status of Aberg. He seems like he could be a useful bottom 6 player, if, he isn't tied to the KHL this year as has been rumored.

So, now we are at the bulk of the trade Kapanen for a 1st and Hallander:

--Kapanen is listed as a .45 pts per game player. His first 3 seasons (8 games, 9 games, 38 games drag that down a bit). The last two seasons, he has been a .54 pts/gm player, with a 20 goal season. He was on pace for 42 points in a full 82 game season. Kapanen is 24. He's RH. He fills a position of need.

--Penguins just made a very similar trade 6 months ago, getting a player who is 4 years older, and a .54 pts/gm career player in Zucker. Zucker has been a mid-40's point guy more consistently, because he's older, and also been a consistent 20 goal guy, with one flex season up to 60 plus points and 33 goals.

--The cost for Zucker was a 1st rounder and Calen Addison.....a 1st round and a high end prospect.....a 1st rounder and Filip Hallander. It's the same trade.

--People complain that Kapanen couldn't seize the opportunity to be a solid top 6 player. Counterpoint....he had a short leash, with Marner and Nylander, 2 top 10 overall draft picks with better upside, ahead of him at RW. He was blocked.

If Kapanen becomes a solid, consistent 40-50 point player and low 20's goal scorer, I can't say it is a win, but, you can't say it is worse than the Zucker deal either. Rutherford is banking on Kapanen's production improving without the large blockers he had in Toronto.
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Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby FLPensFan on Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:31 pm

Per Jim Rutherford, (via Seth Rorabaugh)

Jesper Lindgren is on loan to MODO in Sweden. He can be brought to North American once training camps open.

Pontus Aberg is signed to play 2020-21 with Traktor Chelyabinsk of the KHL. He is a pending RFA. A decision to qualify him will be made in due time.
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Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby pens_CT on Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:32 pm

lemieuxReturns wrote:I hope the Pens free up some space and go after either Hall or Dadonov this summer. Geno needs a legit wing this season.


Dadonov is on the wrong side of 30 and Hall has one 30 goal season in his career, is that really worth what he's going to be asking for probably north of 7 million per season?
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Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby Pensfan4life8771 on Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:34 pm

FLPensFan wrote:OK, now that I've had a chance to step away, eat some lunch, etc, I've calmed down a bit on this trade. If you want to feel better about this trade, this is the best terms I can put the trade....

--I don't care about Rodrigues, Warsofsky, or Lindgren. These were throw aways. We weren't going to resign Rodrigues, Warsofsky was horrible and passed by Trotman and Czuczman in terms of veteran AHL depth, and Lindgren seems like nothing more than AHL depth.

--I don't know that status of Aberg. He seems like he could be a useful bottom 6 player, if, he isn't tied to the KHL this year as has been rumored.

So, now we are at the bulk of the trade Kapanen for a 1st and Hallander:

--Kapanen is listed as a .45 pts per game player. His first 3 seasons (8 games, 9 games, 38 games drag that down a bit). The last two seasons, he has been a .54 pts/gm player, with a 20 goal season. He was on pace for 42 points in a full 82 game season. Kapanen is 24. He's RH. He fills a position of need.

--Penguins just made a very similar trade 6 months ago, getting a player who is 4 years older, and a .54 pts/gm career player in Zucker. Zucker has been a mid-40's point guy more consistently, because he's older, and also been a consistent 20 goal guy, with one flex season up to 60 plus points and 33 goals.

--The cost for Zucker was a 1st rounder and Calen Addison.....a 1st round and a high end prospect.....a 1st rounder and Filip Hallander. It's the same trade.

--People complain that Kapanen couldn't seize the opportunity to be a solid top 6 player. Counterpoint....he had a short leash, with Marner and Nylander, 2 top 10 overall draft picks with better upside, ahead of him at RW. He was blocked.

If Kapanen becomes a solid, consistent 40-50 point player and low 20's goal scorer, I can't say it is a win, but, you can't say it is worse than the Zucker deal either. Rutherford is banking on Kapanen's production improving without the large blockers he had in Toronto.



thoughts on the Pens recouping the first round pick with a Murray to Ottawa type trade? Say the Islander pick they own?
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Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby Ohio_Pens_fan on Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:38 pm

Pensfan4life8771 wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:OK, now that I've had a chance to step away, eat some lunch, etc, I've calmed down a bit on this trade. If you want to feel better about this trade, this is the best terms I can put the trade....

--I don't care about Rodrigues, Warsofsky, or Lindgren. These were throw aways. We weren't going to resign Rodrigues, Warsofsky was horrible and passed by Trotman and Czuczman in terms of veteran AHL depth, and Lindgren seems like nothing more than AHL depth.

--I don't know that status of Aberg. He seems like he could be a useful bottom 6 player, if, he isn't tied to the KHL this year as has been rumored.

So, now we are at the bulk of the trade Kapanen for a 1st and Hallander:

--Kapanen is listed as a .45 pts per game player. His first 3 seasons (8 games, 9 games, 38 games drag that down a bit). The last two seasons, he has been a .54 pts/gm player, with a 20 goal season. He was on pace for 42 points in a full 82 game season. Kapanen is 24. He's RH. He fills a position of need.

--Penguins just made a very similar trade 6 months ago, getting a player who is 4 years older, and a .54 pts/gm career player in Zucker. Zucker has been a mid-40's point guy more consistently, because he's older, and also been a consistent 20 goal guy, with one flex season up to 60 plus points and 33 goals.

--The cost for Zucker was a 1st rounder and Calen Addison.....a 1st round and a high end prospect.....a 1st rounder and Filip Hallander. It's the same trade.

--People complain that Kapanen couldn't seize the opportunity to be a solid top 6 player. Counterpoint....he had a short leash, with Marner and Nylander, 2 top 10 overall draft picks with better upside, ahead of him at RW. He was blocked.

If Kapanen becomes a solid, consistent 40-50 point player and low 20's goal scorer, I can't say it is a win, but, you can't say it is worse than the Zucker deal either. Rutherford is banking on Kapanen's production improving without the large blockers he had in Toronto.



thoughts on the Pens recouping the first round pick with a Murray to Ottawa type trade? Say the Islander pick they own?


...and somehow get them to take on JJ since they only have four signed defensemen and have the cap space.
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Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby pens_CT on Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:43 pm

FLPensFan wrote:OK, now that I've had a chance to step away, eat some lunch, etc, I've calmed down a bit on this trade. If you want to feel better about this trade, this is the best terms I can put the trade....

--I don't care about Rodrigues, Warsofsky, or Lindgren. These were throw aways. We weren't going to resign Rodrigues, Warsofsky was horrible and passed by Trotman and Czuczman in terms of veteran AHL depth, and Lindgren seems like nothing more than AHL depth.

--I don't know that status of Aberg. He seems like he could be a useful bottom 6 player, if, he isn't tied to the KHL this year as has been rumored.

So, now we are at the bulk of the trade Kapanen for a 1st and Hallander:

--Kapanen is listed as a .45 pts per game player. His first 3 seasons (8 games, 9 games, 38 games drag that down a bit). The last two seasons, he has been a .54 pts/gm player, with a 20 goal season. He was on pace for 42 points in a full 82 game season. Kapanen is 24. He's RH. He fills a position of need.

--Penguins just made a very similar trade 6 months ago, getting a player who is 4 years older, and a .54 pts/gm career player in Zucker. Zucker has been a mid-40's point guy more consistently, because he's older, and also been a consistent 20 goal guy, with one flex season up to 60 plus points and 33 goals.

--The cost for Zucker was a 1st rounder and Calen Addison.....a 1st round and a high end prospect.....a 1st rounder and Filip Hallander. It's the same trade.

--People complain that Kapanen couldn't seize the opportunity to be a solid top 6 player. Counterpoint....he had a short leash, with Marner and Nylander, 2 top 10 overall draft picks with better upside, ahead of him at RW. He was blocked.

If Kapanen becomes a solid, consistent 40-50 point player and low 20's goal scorer, I can't say it is a win, but, you can't say it is worse than the Zucker deal either. Rutherford is banking on Kapanen's production improving without the large blockers he had in Toronto.


Hallander is a bottom six guy at best in the NHL, those guys aren't hard to replace. The question becomes whether this team is better with Kapanen, or the guy they would have selected with the 15th overall pick. For next season the answer has to be Kapanen, since the draft pick wouldn't be in the NHL. Beyond next year only time will tell.
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Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby Hawkeynut on Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:45 pm

Jimmy's just getting started...

:fist:
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Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby longtimefan on Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:50 pm

pens_CT wrote:
Pitts wrote:Ottawa has 3 first round picks. One of them better be owned by the Pens very soon. And it better not be #22. :)


You think that Murray is going to get you one of those first round picks?


I don't see Ottawa as a likely destination. The team is still a long way from contention, and Melnyk doesn't like to shell out big contracts when the team is playing well. Every player I can recall them trying to re-signed was dealt. Stone, Duchene, Pageau, Dzingel. Rumblings about how they wanted to sign all of them. Then they were all traded at the deadline. Bringing in Murray will not make them a playoff contender. I just don't see it.
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Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby pens_CT on Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:55 pm

longtimefan wrote:
pens_CT wrote:
Pitts wrote:Ottawa has 3 first round picks. One of them better be owned by the Pens very soon. And it better not be #22. :)


You think that Murray is going to get you one of those first round picks?


I don't see Ottawa as a likely destination. The team is still a long way from contention, and Melnyk doesn't like to shell out big contracts when the team is playing well. Every player I can recall them trying to re-signed was dealt. Stone, Duchene, Pageau, Dzingel. Rumblings about how they wanted to sign all of them. Then they were all traded at the deadline. Bringing in Murray will not make them a playoff contender. I just don't see it.


If they really want a goalie who's ready to go when that team is ready to compete then draft the Russian kid Askarov who's supposed to be the "next franchise" goaltender.
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Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby Penguins Knight on Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:00 pm

I look forward to seeing what Kapanen can do for the Penguins.

It sucks trading away this year's first round pick. I hope other trades are being lined up in order to address immediate needs and restock the farm.
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Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby no name on Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:01 pm

Kapenen Crosby Guentzel
Rust Malkin Zucker

is this what we are looking at?
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Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby KG on Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:03 pm

no name wrote:Kapenen Crosby Guentzel
Rust Malkin Zucker

is this what we are looking at?


That. Or sawp Guentzel and Zucker. But I would say Kapanen and Rust and 1/2 RW for sure.
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Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby Pensfan4life8771 on Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:04 pm

Any chance Kapenen lands on a 3rd line with Poulin and we sign another RW?
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Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby Penguins Knight on Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:05 pm

no name wrote:Kapenen Crosby Guentzel
Rust Malkin Zucker

is this what we are looking at?


That is how I am viewing top six forwards.
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Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby Pitts on Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:05 pm

Cim2217 wrote:If we could land a Hall or Hoffman, Zucker then goes to third line LW, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing. He’s a 50-60 point guy historically, although he never played with the talents that are 87/71, so Zucker could have an offensive outburst.

I used to love Taylor Hall and always had hoped he would become a Pen. But, since his second season in NJ and onward, I'm not convinced he's a good fit. Not sure of how much a a team player he actually is. Why did NJ move on from him so quickly? Why was he the piece Edmonton moved when they seemingly had so many other highly ranked passengers?
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Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby steelershark on Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:11 pm

Damn, grow up! i know this is a forum, but how much has anyone watched Hallander play? What makes you believe that the 15th pick overall will be over the top? Speculation, that is all it is, acting like your the gm. give me a break, go back to playstation 2020.
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Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby longtimefan on Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:15 pm

pens_CT wrote:
longtimefan wrote:
pens_CT wrote:
Pitts wrote:Ottawa has 3 first round picks. One of them better be owned by the Pens very soon. And it better not be #22. :)


You think that Murray is going to get you one of those first round picks?


I don't see Ottawa as a likely destination. The team is still a long way from contention, and Melnyk doesn't like to shell out big contracts when the team is playing well. Every player I can recall them trying to re-signed was dealt. Stone, Duchene, Pageau, Dzingel. Rumblings about how they wanted to sign all of them. Then they were all traded at the deadline. Bringing in Murray will not make them a playoff contender. I just don't see it.


If they really want a goalie who's ready to go when that team is ready to compete then draft the Russian kid Askarov who's supposed to be the "next franchise" goaltender.


With 3 #1's, that makes perfect sense.
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