Kapanen to PIT

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Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby FLPensFan on Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:09 pm

Jim wrote:
KG wrote:Guerin is looking to make a splash and has said big changes are coming. He already went after Jarry in the Zucker trade.

I can definitely see him going hard after Murray. Looking at their roster, they have some nice younger pieces. Centers, Kunin, Eriksson Ek, Donato. D they have Dumba, Brodin.

Wouldn't be surprised at all to see JR and BG hook up on another deal. Obviously the JJ for Rask will be part of any deal :)


JJ for Rask is not favorable for the Pens

Yes, it is favorable for the Penguins.

Johnson has 3 years remaining, with a total cap hit of 9.75M over 3 years, and a total salary payout of 8.25M over those 3 years.
Rask has 2 years remaining, with a total cap hit of 8M, and a total salary payout of 8M over 2 years.

Favorable for the Penguins because:
1. They get 3.25M in cap space off the books by moving Johnson.
2. They pay 250K less in total salary.
3. Rask has not been a good player, but he is not "Johnson level" bad.

The only real negative is 750K in cap space over the next two years, and, you could have Minnesota retain 10% to even out the cap hits.
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Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby Jim on Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:15 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
Jim wrote:
KG wrote:Guerin is looking to make a splash and has said big changes are coming. He already went after Jarry in the Zucker trade.

I can definitely see him going hard after Murray. Looking at their roster, they have some nice younger pieces. Centers, Kunin, Eriksson Ek, Donato. D they have Dumba, Brodin.

Wouldn't be surprised at all to see JR and BG hook up on another deal. Obviously the JJ for Rask will be part of any deal :)


JJ for Rask is not favorable for the Pens

Yes, it is favorable for the Penguins.

Johnson has 3 years remaining, with a total cap hit of 9.75M over 3 years, and a total salary payout of 8.25M over those 3 years.
Rask has 2 years remaining, with a total cap hit of 8M, and a total salary payout of 8M over 2 years.

Favorable for the Penguins because:
1. They get 3.25M in cap space off the books by moving Johnson.
2. They pay 250K less in total salary.
3. Rask has not been a good player, but he is not "Johnson level" bad.

The only real negative is 750K in cap space over the next two years, and, you could have Minnesota retain 10% to even out the cap hits.


JJ for Rask is not favorable for the Pens
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Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby BlackNGold4Life on Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:24 pm

JJ on the pens is not favorable to the pens.
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Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby Hatrick on Wed Aug 26, 2020 12:08 am

definitely an overpay, I do not mind giving up the first but kapanen is not somebody you give up a mid round first for. The rest of the players are about a wash. I think either needed to take Hallander out of the deal or Toronto needed to throw in a 2nd or 3rd.
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Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby Hatrick on Wed Aug 26, 2020 12:09 am

FLPensFan wrote:
Jim wrote:
KG wrote:Guerin is looking to make a splash and has said big changes are coming. He already went after Jarry in the Zucker trade.

I can definitely see him going hard after Murray. Looking at their roster, they have some nice younger pieces. Centers, Kunin, Eriksson Ek, Donato. D they have Dumba, Brodin.

Wouldn't be surprised at all to see JR and BG hook up on another deal. Obviously the JJ for Rask will be part of any deal :)


JJ for Rask is not favorable for the Pens

Yes, it is favorable for the Penguins.

Johnson has 3 years remaining, with a total cap hit of 9.75M over 3 years, and a total salary payout of 8.25M over those 3 years.
Rask has 2 years remaining, with a total cap hit of 8M, and a total salary payout of 8M over 2 years.

Favorable for the Penguins because:
1. They get 3.25M in cap space off the books by moving Johnson.
2. They pay 250K less in total salary.
3. Rask has not been a good player, but he is not "Johnson level" bad.

The only real negative is 750K in cap space over the next two years, and, you could have Minnesota retain 10% to even out the cap hits.

If you get Minnesota to retain the 750k(or at least very close) I would do it. Otherwise pass.
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Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby FLPensFan on Wed Aug 26, 2020 12:14 am

From Pierre LeBrun in his Athletic article today:

"According to sources, the Leafs spoke to the likes of New Jersey, Nashville, Anaheim, Minnesota, Chicago and Carolina about Kapanen, signed to a reasonable deal at a $3.2-million AAV and controllable overall for three more years (he’s RFA at the end of the deal)."

They wanted their 13th overall pick from Carolina, who said no. Pretty much every team here is thought to have been asked for at least their 1st round pick for Kapanen, and all these teams said no. I'm not saying this as a negative, just that Rutherford jumped at the opportunity that others were passing on. Minnesota is said to have had a little bit further discussions with Toronto, and Montreal and Edmonton also had interest. So I think GMJR was ok with giving up his first, and, possibly knowing the level of interest, decided to make the move because this is a player he liked, always thought was a fit, and didn't want to lose out on with the heavy potential interest.
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Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby FLPensFan on Wed Aug 26, 2020 12:15 am

Hatrick wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
Jim wrote:
KG wrote:Guerin is looking to make a splash and has said big changes are coming. He already went after Jarry in the Zucker trade.

I can definitely see him going hard after Murray. Looking at their roster, they have some nice younger pieces. Centers, Kunin, Eriksson Ek, Donato. D they have Dumba, Brodin.

Wouldn't be surprised at all to see JR and BG hook up on another deal. Obviously the JJ for Rask will be part of any deal :)


JJ for Rask is not favorable for the Pens

Yes, it is favorable for the Penguins.

Johnson has 3 years remaining, with a total cap hit of 9.75M over 3 years, and a total salary payout of 8.25M over those 3 years.
Rask has 2 years remaining, with a total cap hit of 8M, and a total salary payout of 8M over 2 years.

Favorable for the Penguins because:
1. They get 3.25M in cap space off the books by moving Johnson.
2. They pay 250K less in total salary.
3. Rask has not been a good player, but he is not "Johnson level" bad.

The only real negative is 750K in cap space over the next two years, and, you could have Minnesota retain 10% to even out the cap hits.

If you get Minnesota to retain the 750k(or at least very close) I would do it. Otherwise pass.

If Minnesota retains 750K, then they are taking on more. 750K is the difference between the 2 deals. Cut that in half...325K. So Minnesota would need to retain about 8% salary.
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Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby Pens4Life on Wed Aug 26, 2020 12:35 am

Why would Guerin be that stupid and trade for JJ??
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Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby longtimefan on Wed Aug 26, 2020 8:36 am

Jim wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
Jim wrote:
KG wrote:Guerin is looking to make a splash and has said big changes are coming. He already went after Jarry in the Zucker trade.

I can definitely see him going hard after Murray. Looking at their roster, they have some nice younger pieces. Centers, Kunin, Eriksson Ek, Donato. D they have Dumba, Brodin.

Wouldn't be surprised at all to see JR and BG hook up on another deal. Obviously the JJ for Rask will be part of any deal :)


JJ for Rask is not favorable for the Pens

Yes, it is favorable for the Penguins.

Johnson has 3 years remaining, with a total cap hit of 9.75M over 3 years, and a total salary payout of 8.25M over those 3 years.
Rask has 2 years remaining, with a total cap hit of 8M, and a total salary payout of 8M over 2 years.

Favorable for the Penguins because:
1. They get 3.25M in cap space off the books by moving Johnson.
2. They pay 250K less in total salary.
3. Rask has not been a good player, but he is not "Johnson level" bad.

The only real negative is 750K in cap space over the next two years, and, you could have Minnesota retain 10% to even out the cap hits.


JJ for Rask is not favorable for the Pens


I saw some merit at one point, but I'm going to land on Jim's side here. Where would Rask fit in the lineup at this stage? Sure, you can play around with the $$$ a little. The extra year is inconsequential. By the time the contract expires, they're past the artificial 2 year window. If JJ were still to be here, a buyout of that final year will cost $1.75 and $.75 over two seasons.

The trade is just a shuffling of bad contracts, and people would complain about the Rask contract after the relief of moving JJ wears off.
You're correct, they get JJ's cap hit off the books, but they've replaced it with another problem contract. It's like a treadmill.

IMO, beyond '21-'22 isn't all that consequential right now. Things will change dramatically then. I hate the idea, but the proper play would be to send JJ to the minors. He'll cost you $2.175 against the cap. So that's the cost. If you take Rask back, you may be forced to send him to the minors. He'll cost $2.925 to bury. Which is why you don't move JJ at all cost. Whatever comes back has to have more worth than that $2.175 cap hit. It can complicate your life, but it's not a Seabrook or Turris deal. Or Karl Alzner. Trading JJ, besides his play, is all about the cap space. If you don't trade and demote JJ to WBS, and you choose to keep POJ, the relative cap hit for POJ is $3.038333. His salary of $.863333 + JJ's buried amount of $2.175M. It makes more sense to do that rather than bring a Rask aboard. So no new bad deal. POJ's cap hit is good for the next two seasons. It doesn't really change the cap structure.

I think that's the smarter play unless you can move JJ without taking a bad contract back. Even then, you have to weigh the value of the return. If the sweetener is draconian, simply demote him. If I've got to trade JJ and a 3rd for a 7th, is that worth $2.175M in cap space? If POJ is ready, it may not eliminate the JJ problem, but it can at least calm it down a bit.

The other issue is that Guerin is not the one who offered that deal. It was his since fired predecessor. For all we know, Guerin was the one pushing for Rask as the bad contract in return. The point is that deal was structured by a guy who no longer has a job.
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Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby DelPen on Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:12 am

I’m left wondering if anyone above us would have traded down for the #15 and Hollander and if the player we would have taken could step into the NHL this coming season and be a potential 30 goal scorer.

If that’s the binary choice Rutherford forced himself to make then in the immediate short term of the next 12 months then this was a good trade.

My larger issue is I don’t have a problem traded assets to make the team better but adding Kapanen doesn’t change the fundamental issues with this team where Sullivan doesn’t play the best lineup, he goes with guys he likes at a personal level more often than who is better on the ice, Letang and Malkin are detriments you the team when they are off and when they both play stupid we are never winning a series, and Jack Johnson is still here getting ice time.

If we want to be a charitable foundation for one of Crosby’s friends that can cost us $2 million in cap space that’s fine but please send the waste of space in paper to WBS so we can play someone better. We carry 9 defensemen at some points and waste development years to placate garbage vets. Yesterday’s trade doesn’t change that culture.
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Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby KG on Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:46 am

Devils with their 3 first round picks supposedly had interest in Kapanen too. Makes sense with Fitzgerald at the helm. The more I think about it, Kapanen could be the Dupuis that Sid hasn't had in a while, but with more offense. He will go into the corners and do the dirty work and be defensively sound.

Sid/Zucker/Kapanen has a little bit of Sid/Kunitz/Dupuis feel to it IMO.
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Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby pens_CT on Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:59 am

KG wrote:Devils with their 3 first round picks supposedly had interest in Kapanen too. Makes sense with Fitzgerald at the helm. The more I think about it, Kapanen could be the Dupuis that Sid hasn't had in a while, but with more offense. He will go into the corners and do the dirty work and be defensively sound.

Sid/Zucker/Kapanen has a little bit of Sid/Kunitz/Dupuis feel to it IMO.


I think if you were willing to trade a 1st for Kapanen you consider yourself a playoff contender for next season. I don't see Jersey as that kind of team so why bother, get the prospects and build for 2 - 3 years down the road.
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Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby FLPensFan on Wed Aug 26, 2020 10:07 am

longtimefan wrote:
Jim wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
Jim wrote:
KG wrote:Guerin is looking to make a splash and has said big changes are coming. He already went after Jarry in the Zucker trade.

I can definitely see him going hard after Murray. Looking at their roster, they have some nice younger pieces. Centers, Kunin, Eriksson Ek, Donato. D they have Dumba, Brodin.

Wouldn't be surprised at all to see JR and BG hook up on another deal. Obviously the JJ for Rask will be part of any deal :)


JJ for Rask is not favorable for the Pens

Yes, it is favorable for the Penguins.

Johnson has 3 years remaining, with a total cap hit of 9.75M over 3 years, and a total salary payout of 8.25M over those 3 years.
Rask has 2 years remaining, with a total cap hit of 8M, and a total salary payout of 8M over 2 years.

Favorable for the Penguins because:
1. They get 3.25M in cap space off the books by moving Johnson.
2. They pay 250K less in total salary.
3. Rask has not been a good player, but he is not "Johnson level" bad.

The only real negative is 750K in cap space over the next two years, and, you could have Minnesota retain 10% to even out the cap hits.


JJ for Rask is not favorable for the Pens


I saw some merit at one point, but I'm going to land on Jim's side here. Where would Rask fit in the lineup at this stage? Sure, you can play around with the $$$ a little. The extra year is inconsequential. By the time the contract expires, they're past the artificial 2 year window. If JJ were still to be here, a buyout of that final year will cost $1.75 and $.75 over two seasons.

The trade is just a shuffling of bad contracts, and people would complain about the Rask contract after the relief of moving JJ wears off.
You're correct, they get JJ's cap hit off the books, but they've replaced it with another problem contract. It's like a treadmill.

IMO, beyond '21-'22 isn't all that consequential right now. Things will change dramatically then. I hate the idea, but the proper play would be to send JJ to the minors. He'll cost you $2.175 against the cap. So that's the cost. If you take Rask back, you may be forced to send him to the minors. He'll cost $2.925 to bury. Which is why you don't move JJ at all cost. Whatever comes back has to have more worth than that $2.175 cap hit. It can complicate your life, but it's not a Seabrook or Turris deal. Or Karl Alzner. Trading JJ, besides his play, is all about the cap space. If you don't trade and demote JJ to WBS, and you choose to keep POJ, the relative cap hit for POJ is $3.038333. His salary of $.863333 + JJ's buried amount of $2.175M. It makes more sense to do that rather than bring a Rask aboard. So no new bad deal. POJ's cap hit is good for the next two seasons. It doesn't really change the cap structure.

I think that's the smarter play unless you can move JJ without taking a bad contract back. Even then, you have to weigh the value of the return. If the sweetener is draconian, simply demote him. If I've got to trade JJ and a 3rd for a 7th, is that worth $2.175M in cap space? If POJ is ready, it may not eliminate the JJ problem, but it can at least calm it down a bit.

The other issue is that Guerin is not the one who offered that deal. It was his since fired predecessor. For all we know, Guerin was the one pushing for Rask as the bad contract in return. The point is that deal was structured by a guy who no longer has a job.

He could be your 3C, your 4LW. He is 2 years removed from being a consistent 30-40 point player. I would much rather give Rask a spot in the lineup than JJ at this point. Would Rask be my top choice to fill any of those spots? No, but as I said, he isn't JJ level bad. Even as an expensive 13th forward

Now, I do have questions about his hand. I looked at coaching, but his issues started after coming back from the hand injury (sliced tendons in a kitchen accident). Someone else here commented they've seen him play and he isn't good, maybe low hockey IQ. I don't recall.

So, I'm not pushing for it saying this needs to be done, but I am saying if this trade were to go down....I'd rather have Rask on the roster than JJ. I think Rask would provide more value to the roster, and that's what is most important to me. I really don't care if Mario has to pay out more in actual salary. I do care about clearing cap space or moving space out in order to bring in better space.

First preference, move JJ, even with something else, and bring back an 8th round pick (yeah, I know).
If that isn't possible, then look at moving around bad contract for bad contract, preferably one that can be more helpful to the lineup than Johnson.
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Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby Wyopen on Wed Aug 26, 2020 10:15 am

A great number on this board do not like this trade, but I’m willing to see how this plays out on ice before making a judgement. When I watched Kapanen play (tv of course) I wish the Pens had him. Maybe they gave up too much, but who knows at this point. I was more upset with Addison being traded + a first. What I’m concerned about is this; GMs now know JR will over pay in a trade. You would think there would be “honor” amongst the GMs for fair trades but I guess not. I really don’t expect much from a Murray trade. GMs know JR is in a bind and will undercut him.
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Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby Cow_Master66 on Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:39 pm

Wyopen wrote:A great number on this board do not like this trade, but I’m willing to see how this plays out on ice before making a judgement. When I watched Kapanen play (tv of course) I wish the Pens had him. Maybe they gave up too much, but who knows at this point. I was more upset with Addison being traded + a first. What I’m concerned about is this; GMs now know JR will over pay in a trade. You would think there would be “honor” amongst the GMs for fair trades but I guess not. I really don’t expect much from a Murray trade. GMs know JR is in a bind and will undercut him.


I think it’s more people here overvalue draft picks. Win now is the approach and draft picks be damned is the approach. The window is closing, but unless u think it’s closed now, you just go for it. If you are approaching the draft with the 2023 season in mind, then the window is definitely closed from your point of view... with the cap issues and age of the core there’s no way to go about this without trading futures.

I still think they may trade Rust as well, but only because they probably can’t move Horny.

We should all enjoy the last 3 years of this ride and worry about the future after it’s too late.
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Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby FLPensFan on Wed Aug 26, 2020 2:14 pm

Cow_Master66 wrote:
Wyopen wrote:A great number on this board do not like this trade, but I’m willing to see how this plays out on ice before making a judgement. When I watched Kapanen play (tv of course) I wish the Pens had him. Maybe they gave up too much, but who knows at this point. I was more upset with Addison being traded + a first. What I’m concerned about is this; GMs now know JR will over pay in a trade. You would think there would be “honor” amongst the GMs for fair trades but I guess not. I really don’t expect much from a Murray trade. GMs know JR is in a bind and will undercut him.


I think it’s more people here overvalue draft picks. Win now is the approach and draft picks be damned is the approach. The window is closing, but unless u think it’s closed now, you just go for it. If you are approaching the draft with the 2023 season in mind, then the window is definitely closed from your point of view... with the cap issues and age of the core there’s no way to go about this without trading futures.

I still think they may trade Rust as well, but only because they probably can’t move Horny.

We should all enjoy the last 3 years of this ride and worry about the future after it’s too late.

I thought about trading Rust at one point. Sell high. He's cheap for the output he gave last season, and only has 2 more cheap seasons left.

But, in win-now mode, you don't worry about him possibly getting a larger contract in 2 years. Rust is too valuable to this team to deal for something else. He plays the way this team wants to play, as evidenced by them getting Zucker, who is almost a clone of Rust.
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Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby longtimefan on Wed Aug 26, 2020 2:53 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
Cow_Master66 wrote:
Wyopen wrote:A great number on this board do not like this trade, but I’m willing to see how this plays out on ice before making a judgement. When I watched Kapanen play (tv of course) I wish the Pens had him. Maybe they gave up too much, but who knows at this point. I was more upset with Addison being traded + a first. What I’m concerned about is this; GMs now know JR will over pay in a trade. You would think there would be “honor” amongst the GMs for fair trades but I guess not. I really don’t expect much from a Murray trade. GMs know JR is in a bind and will undercut him.


I think it’s more people here overvalue draft picks. Win now is the approach and draft picks be damned is the approach. The window is closing, but unless u think it’s closed now, you just go for it. If you are approaching the draft with the 2023 season in mind, then the window is definitely closed from your point of view... with the cap issues and age of the core there’s no way to go about this without trading futures.

I still think they may trade Rust as well, but only because they probably can’t move Horny.

We should all enjoy the last 3 years of this ride and worry about the future after it’s too late.

I thought about trading Rust at one point. Sell high. He's cheap for the output he gave last season, and only has 2 more cheap seasons left.

But, in win-now mode, you don't worry about him possibly getting a larger contract in 2 years. Rust is too valuable to this team to deal for something else. He plays the way this team wants to play, as evidenced by them getting Zucker, who is almost a clone of Rust.


His contract is the type of bargain they need. In two years time, you deal with it. If he plays well enough, the cap isn't an issue. I'm over waiting for Rust to revert to his past inconsistencies. He has 45 goals in his last 100 games. That's the type of contract a contender doesn't move.
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Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby longtimefan on Wed Aug 26, 2020 4:21 pm

Cow_Master66 wrote:
Wyopen wrote:A great number on this board do not like this trade, but I’m willing to see how this plays out on ice before making a judgement. When I watched Kapanen play (tv of course) I wish the Pens had him. Maybe they gave up too much, but who knows at this point. I was more upset with Addison being traded + a first. What I’m concerned about is this; GMs now know JR will over pay in a trade. You would think there would be “honor” amongst the GMs for fair trades but I guess not. I really don’t expect much from a Murray trade. GMs know JR is in a bind and will undercut him.


I think it’s more people here overvalue draft picks. Win now is the approach and draft picks be damned is the approach. The window is closing, but unless u think it’s closed now, you just go for it. If you are approaching the draft with the 2023 season in mind, then the window is definitely closed from your point of view... with the cap issues and age of the core there’s no way to go about this without trading futures.

I still think they may trade Rust as well, but only because they probably can’t move Horny.

We should all enjoy the last 3 years of this ride and worry about the future after it’s too late.


People on here way overvalue draft picks. Not only are they futures, they're lottery tickets. Hording them is not conducive to a win now mentality. Once the window is closed, if the team's bad you start trading the leftover, aging players for picks.

As far as any concerns about GM's trying to box JR in, that's where the relationship aspect comes in. JR has a lot of them built up over a long period of time. I've seen the articles which suggest the Pens were fleeced, but I've seen just as many understanding the Pens reasoning. That's why the Athletic gave the trade an A- for the Leafs, and a B for the Pens. A B is not a bad grade. It was a deal that fills a hole in the Pens lineup.

I never thought they were looking to move Rust, and the deal makes it less likely. The idea of bringing Kappy in was to complete the top 6 with a nice $3.2M cap hit for two years. Trading Rust puts you back in the same spot as you were in, just with Kappy rather than Rust. And Kappy hasn't scored 45 goals in his last 100 games. Rusty's contract is reason enough to keep him around.
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Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby ville5 on Wed Aug 26, 2020 4:35 pm

Does this trade make Hornqvist more amenable to a trade? Should be even less ice time available for him. I'm sure other teams can offer top 6 minutes.
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Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby DelPen on Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:39 pm

If push comes to shove and Hornqvist isn’t among the 13 beat forwards then send him to WBS, the minimal cap savings will pretty much offset whoever makes the team like Poulin or Legare. Same thing with Johnson, if Joseph plays better send Johnson down and it’s a neutral cost move. If someone wants to claim them so be it.
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Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby BleuLineLady on Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:52 pm

Am I missing something? I know Hornqvist's salary is high, but he still scored 17 goals without even close to a full season and is the consummate net front presence. I'm not sure how trading or putting Hornqvist in the AHL remotely makes the team better.

There will be spots for Poulin and O'Connor to have a chance, there will be injuries as there are every year in the top 9.
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Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby pens_CT on Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:01 pm

BleuLineLady wrote:Am I missing something? I know Hornqvist's salary is high, but he still scored 17 goals without even close to a full season and is the consummate net front presence. I'm not sure how trading or putting Hornqvist in the AHL remotely makes the team better.

There will be spots for Poulin and O'Connor to have a chance, there will be injuries as there are every year in the top 9.


The only thing you're missing is Hornqvist is over 30 making over 5 million dollars that makes him in some peoples eyes as a prime guy to trade.
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Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby Jim on Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:27 pm

BleuLineLady wrote:Am I missing something? I know Hornqvist's salary is high, but he still scored 17 goals without even close to a full season and is the consummate net front presence. I'm not sure how trading or putting Hornqvist in the AHL remotely makes the team better.

There will be spots for Poulin and O'Connor to have a chance, there will be injuries as there are every year in the top 9.


People think speed is everything. If you are not fast in a straight line then you have absolutely nothing to add to a team.
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Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby Wyopen on Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:49 pm

longtimefan wrote:
Cow_Master66 wrote:
Wyopen wrote:A great number on this board do not like this trade, but I’m willing to see how this plays out on ice before making a judgement. When I watched Kapanen play (tv of course) I wish the Pens had him. Maybe they gave up too much, but who knows at this point. I was more upset with Addison being traded + a first. What I’m concerned about is this; GMs now know JR will over pay in a trade. You would think there would be “honor” amongst the GMs for fair trades but I guess not. I really don’t expect much from a Murray trade. GMs know JR is in a bind and will undercut him.


I think it’s more people here overvalue draft picks. Win now is the approach and draft picks be damned is the approach. The window is closing, but unless u think it’s closed now, you just go for it. If you are approaching the draft with the 2023 season in mind, then the window is definitely closed from your point of view... with the cap issues and age of the core there’s no way to go about this without trading futures.

I still think they may trade Rust as well, but only because they probably can’t move Horny.

We should all enjoy the last 3 years of this ride and worry about the future after it’s too late.


People on here way overvalue draft picks. Not only are they futures, they're lottery tickets. Hording them is not conducive to a win now mentality. Once the window is closed, if the team's bad you start trading the leftover, aging players for picks.

As far as any concerns about GM's trying to box JR in, that's where the relationship aspect comes in. JR has a lot of them built up over a long period of time. I've seen the articles which suggest the Pens were fleeced, but I've seen just as many understanding the Pens reasoning. That's why the Athletic gave the trade an A- for the Leafs, and a B for the Pens. A B is not a bad grade. It was a deal that fills a hole in the Pens lineup.

I never thought they were looking to move Rust, and the deal makes it less likely. The idea of bringing Kappy in was to complete the top 6 with a nice $3.2M cap hit for two years. Trading Rust puts you back in the same spot as you were in, just with Kappy rather than Rust. And Kappy hasn't scored 45 goals in his last 100 games. Rusty's contract is reason enough to keep him around.



On Score, Josh Wegman gave the Pens a C. Not that it matters.
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Re: Kapanen to PIT

Postby longtimefan on Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:31 pm

Wyopen wrote:
longtimefan wrote:
Cow_Master66 wrote:
Wyopen wrote:A great number on this board do not like this trade, but I’m willing to see how this plays out on ice before making a judgement. When I watched Kapanen play (tv of course) I wish the Pens had him. Maybe they gave up too much, but who knows at this point. I was more upset with Addison being traded + a first. What I’m concerned about is this; GMs now know JR will over pay in a trade. You would think there would be “honor” amongst the GMs for fair trades but I guess not. I really don’t expect much from a Murray trade. GMs know JR is in a bind and will undercut him.


I think it’s more people here overvalue draft picks. Win now is the approach and draft picks be damned is the approach. The window is closing, but unless u think it’s closed now, you just go for it. If you are approaching the draft with the 2023 season in mind, then the window is definitely closed from your point of view... with the cap issues and age of the core there’s no way to go about this without trading futures.

I still think they may trade Rust as well, but only because they probably can’t move Horny.

We should all enjoy the last 3 years of this ride and worry about the future after it’s too late.


People on here way overvalue draft picks. Not only are they futures, they're lottery tickets. Hording them is not conducive to a win now mentality. Once the window is closed, if the team's bad you start trading the leftover, aging players for picks.

As far as any concerns about GM's trying to box JR in, that's where the relationship aspect comes in. JR has a lot of them built up over a long period of time. I've seen the articles which suggest the Pens were fleeced, but I've seen just as many understanding the Pens reasoning. That's why the Athletic gave the trade an A- for the Leafs, and a B for the Pens. A B is not a bad grade. It was a deal that fills a hole in the Pens lineup.

I never thought they were looking to move Rust, and the deal makes it less likely. The idea of bringing Kappy in was to complete the top 6 with a nice $3.2M cap hit for two years. Trading Rust puts you back in the same spot as you were in, just with Kappy rather than Rust. And Kappy hasn't scored 45 goals in his last 100 games. Rusty's contract is reason enough to keep him around.



On Score, Josh Wegman gave the Pens a C. Not that it matters.


It really doesn't matter what grades anybody gives it at this point. It's all arbitrary. If Kappy plays a big role and gets to hoist the cup in the next couple of years, it was worth every bit of it. Two teams with different goals. The Leafs needed some cap flexibility, and Kappy was the one they could move and get the most back for. The Pens were looking for a player to fill out their top 2 lines with a reasonable contract.

The Kessel trade comes to mind. The Leafs moved what they considered an onerous contract and they needed cap space to build. The Pens got Kessel. That wasn't seen as a steal for the Pens universally, and they received some criticism. Especially the belief that his contract would be difficult to move as he aged. It was, but they did get it done. And Phil and the Pens won 2 cups. So it will forever be a win for the Pens.
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