Riikola signs 2 year, 1.15M AAV extension

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Re: Riikola signs 2 year, 1.15M AAV extension

Postby ville5 on Sat Sep 05, 2020 8:29 pm

longtimefan wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
DelPen wrote:
OKpensfan247 wrote:I am extremely happy about this. JJ to AHL please.

Cap hit of Johnson in the NHL and Riikola in the AHL is about the same as Johnson in the AHL and Riikola in the NHL.

False. 1.025M is the max amount of cap relief you can get from burying a player in AHL. So JJ in the AHL still counts a little over two Riikolas against the NHL cap.

Gotta think JJ is going somewhere with Dumo, Pettersson, Riikola, and JJ...plus an NHL ready POJ all on the left side.


I think he's saying it's basically the same cap hit if you send JJ down. The amount you can bury is $1.075 for this season. https://puckpedia.com/minimum-nhl-salary-buried-cap-hit. So if you send JJ down, you have to bury $2.175. If you add Riikola's $1.15 cap hit, it plus the buried $$$ would leave you with a total cap hit of $3.325. It may not be the plan, but the math works pretty well.

The chances of GMJR sending JMFJ to the AHL- 0.00001% or less.
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Re: Riikola signs 2 year, 1.15M AAV extension

Postby longtimefan on Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:22 pm

ville5 wrote:
longtimefan wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
DelPen wrote:
OKpensfan247 wrote:I am extremely happy about this. JJ to AHL please.

Cap hit of Johnson in the NHL and Riikola in the AHL is about the same as Johnson in the AHL and Riikola in the NHL.

False. 1.025M is the max amount of cap relief you can get from burying a player in AHL. So JJ in the AHL still counts a little over two Riikolas against the NHL cap.

Gotta think JJ is going somewhere with Dumo, Pettersson, Riikola, and JJ...plus an NHL ready POJ all on the left side.


I think he's saying it's basically the same cap hit if you send JJ down. The amount you can bury is $1.075 for this season. https://puckpedia.com/minimum-nhl-salary-buried-cap-hit. So if you send JJ down, you have to bury $2.175. If you add Riikola's $1.15 cap hit, it plus the buried $$$ would leave you with a total cap hit of $3.325. It may not be the plan, but the math works pretty well.

The chances of GMJR sending JMFJ to the AHL- 0.00001% or less.


I think people have too much paranoia about JR's opinion of JJ. He gave a very frank assessment about him a couple of weeks ago, and also made it clear why he sticks up for him so vociferously. Everything he said was on point. The JJ criticism was over the top from the day he signed. He didn't start with a clean slate or from scratch. He started as public enemy #1. He also said he's not perfect, but few 3rd pair defenseman are. He also made it a point that he plays a heavy game, something the Pens have very little of. I believe it was in the same interview where he broached the idea of buyouts, although he didn't specifically mention JJ. He also said he didn't think it would come to that.

People correctly point out that his advanced stats were a precursor of things to come, but not everyone shared that opinion. Bob McKenzie had him pegged as getting a 2 or 3 year contract at around $5M AAV. There was some talk that JJ was looking for a certain amount of money to put his financial woes behind him, and JR gave more term to soften the cap hit. That's water under the bridge.

JR showed with the vetoed Kessel deal to Minnesota that he was willing to move him. At the end of last summer, it was pretty much a given that they weren't going to keep both Gudbranson and JJ. In fact, through the final couple of pre-season games, Riikola and Guddy were the 3rd pairing. The decision to move Gudbranson instead was forced by Marino, since they played the same side. In effect, Marino beat out Riikola for the 6th spot. Guddy and JJ were interchangeable as the veteran to play with the young guy.

I believe they've tried to move him, and they will again. But he hasn't been able to for a return he finds acceptable. Before they move him, they have to find somebody who will play more of a heavy game. He's all they have in that department. But if he clearly is the 9th best option, it's not out of the question they'd send him to WBS. It's more of an option with Riikola signed. People seem to like to portray JR as an old senile buffoon. I look at his body of work. A body of work that got him in the HOF. The window is two years. I don't believe he'll let any personal feelings get in the way of that. I'd say the same of Sid too.
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Re: Riikola signs 2 year, 1.15M AAV extension

Postby Ericf on Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:59 pm

You can play a heavy game and suck, which JJ does. And if your “heavy” game is chasing hits and pushing opposing players into your goalie, then there’s zero reason you should be playing. If you can’t get a heavy and good player, then just play the good players.
Last edited by Ericf on Sat Sep 05, 2020 11:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Riikola signs 2 year, 1.15M AAV extension

Postby FLPensFan on Sat Sep 05, 2020 10:07 pm

ville5 wrote:Hey FLPensfan, do some sleuthing. Contact the local Pens' scribes and see if there's any truth to this.

I reached out to TIOPS, Dan Kingerski, and Ryan Wilson.

Ryan Wilson told me the Penguins are trading Jack Johnson to Buffalo for Rasmus Ristolainen.

Dan Kingerski said the phone has been ringing off the hook, everyone is calling GMJR asking for JJ, as they should be. He sold his house to buy a mansion.

TIOPS told me that a phone once rang in a mansion, but his sources say neither Johnson nor Ristolainen made the phone call.

:pop:
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Re: Riikola signs 2 year, 1.15M AAV extension

Postby pens_CT on Sat Sep 05, 2020 10:28 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
ville5 wrote:Hey FLPensfan, do some sleuthing. Contact the local Pens' scribes and see if there's any truth to this.

I reached out to TIOPS, Dan Kingerski, and Ryan Wilson.

Ryan Wilson told me the Penguins are trading Jack Johnson to Buffalo for Rasmus Ristolainen.

Dan Kingerski said the phone has been ringing off the hook, everyone is calling GMJR asking for JJ, as they should be. He sold his house to buy a mansion.

TIOPS told me that a phone once rang in a mansion, but his sources say neither Johnson nor Ristolainen made the phone call.

:pop:


Are you sure we're not getting Reinhart along with Ristolanien for Johnson?
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Re: Riikola signs 2 year, 1.15M AAV extension

Postby ville5 on Sun Sep 06, 2020 1:55 am

FLPensFan wrote:
ville5 wrote:Hey FLPensfan, do some sleuthing. Contact the local Pens' scribes and see if there's any truth to this.

I reached out to TIOPS, Dan Kingerski, and Ryan Wilson.

Ryan Wilson told me the Penguins are trading Jack Johnson to Buffalo for Rasmus Ristolainen.

Dan Kingerski said the phone has been ringing off the hook, everyone is calling GMJR asking for JJ, as they should be. He sold his house to buy a mansion.

TIOPS told me that a phone once rang in a mansion, but his sources say neither Johnson nor Ristolainen made the phone call.

:pop:

Well done research Andy!
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Re: Riikola signs 2 year, 1.15M AAV extension

Postby Jim on Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:38 am

FLPensFan wrote:
DelPen wrote:Cap hit of Johnson in the NHL and Riikola in the AHL is about the same as Johnson in the AHL and Riikola in the NHL.

False. 1.025M is the max amount of cap relief you can get from burying a player in AHL. So JJ in the AHL still counts a little over two Riikolas against the NHL cap.

Gotta think JJ is going somewhere with Dumo, Pettersson, Riikola, and JJ...plus an NHL ready POJ all on the left side.


Double False... one two fronts. Burried cap waive is $1,075,000. If one of them is up and one down it will be exactly the same total cap either way.

Johnson in the the NHL $3,250,000, Riikola in the AHL $75,000. Total $3,325,000
Johnson in the the AHL $2,175,000, Riikola in the NHL $1,150,000. Total $3,325,000

However, I think that DelPen misspoke a little. I think that he meant Johnson in the AHL and Riikola in the NHL is basically the same as just Johnson in the NHL. $3,325,000 vs $3,250,000... only $75,000 difference.
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Re: Riikola signs 2 year, 1.15M AAV extension

Postby Jim on Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:39 am

Crash66 wrote:They wouldn't sign him to trade him, would they?


Statistically, sign-and-trades don't happen.
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Re: Riikola signs 2 year, 1.15M AAV extension

Postby DelPen on Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:13 am

FLPensFan wrote:
DelPen wrote:
OKpensfan247 wrote:I am extremely happy about this. JJ to AHL please.

Cap hit of Johnson in the NHL and Riikola in the AHL is about the same as Johnson in the AHL and Riikola in the NHL.

False. 1.025M is the max amount of cap relief you can get from burying a player in AHL. So JJ in the AHL still counts a little over two Riikolas against the NHL cap.

Gotta think JJ is going somewhere with Dumo, Pettersson, Riikola, and JJ...plus an NHL ready POJ all on the left side.


Check your math there, I know what can be shielded in the AHL. Johnson in the NHL is just over $3 million, Riikola in the AHL is $0. Johnson in the AHL is just over $2 million. Riikola is just about $1 million.

Tell me how that’s false?
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Re: Riikola signs 2 year, 1.15M AAV extension

Postby FLPensFan on Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:19 am

DelPen wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
DelPen wrote:
OKpensfan247 wrote:I am extremely happy about this. JJ to AHL please.

Cap hit of Johnson in the NHL and Riikola in the AHL is about the same as Johnson in the AHL and Riikola in the NHL.

False. 1.025M is the max amount of cap relief you can get from burying a player in AHL. So JJ in the AHL still counts a little over two Riikolas against the NHL cap.

Gotta think JJ is going somewhere with Dumo, Pettersson, Riikola, and JJ...plus an NHL ready POJ all on the left side.


Check your math there, I know what can be shielded in the AHL. Johnson in the NHL is just over $3 million, Riikola in the AHL is $0. Johnson in the AHL is just over $2 million. Riikola is just about $1 million.

Tell me how that’s false?

Sorry DelPen, misunderstood your post, and got the max bury amount wrong by 50K as well.
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Re: Riikola signs 2 year, 1.15M AAV extension

Postby Hatrick on Sun Sep 06, 2020 2:33 pm

surprised Riikola resigned here given his lack of playing time previously, the fact the penguins resigned him could mean four possible things
1. trading a defenseman (or two) away
2. they plan on carrying 8 defenseman and don't plan on signing another one(Dumo, letang, pettersson, marino, JJ, Riikola, POJ, ruhwedel
3. insurance in case POJ is not ready and the bottom pairing could be JJ-Riikola
4.burying an NHL defenseman in the AHL
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Re: Riikola signs 2 year, 1.15M AAV extension

Postby FLPensFan on Sun Sep 06, 2020 4:07 pm

Hatrick wrote:surprised Riikola resigned here given his lack of playing time previously, the fact the penguins resigned him could mean four possible things
1. trading a defenseman (or two) away
2. they plan on carrying 8 defenseman and don't plan on signing another one(Dumo, letang, pettersson, marino, JJ, Riikola, POJ, ruhwedel
3. insurance in case POJ is not ready and the bottom pairing could be JJ-Riikola
4.burying an NHL defenseman in the AHL

I think 1 is most likely, followed by 4. I think a lot of people expected Riikola to be traded or non-qualified, including me. He looked good at times, did have some bad spots, but Sullivan just wouldn't use him. I have to think Rutherford/Sullivan had to have some type of conversation with him about getting more playing time here over the next two years. The guy is only 26, and was 24 when Penguins first signed him. I'd much rather play the 26 year old who may make some mistakes but still can grow, over the 33 year old with 14 years of crappy numbers and being an anchor on his linemates.

Carrying 8 makes sense, but not those 8, because you have 5 lefties and only 3 righties. Keeping JJ, POJ, and Riikola all on the roster doesn't seem to be the best roster configuration.
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Re: Riikola signs 2 year, 1.15M AAV extension

Postby DelPen on Sun Sep 06, 2020 4:40 pm

I hope the plan will be to have Joseph and Maniscalco be the top pair in all situations in WBS next year so they come up together already familiar with how they each play and as soon as next season or later this coming year.

I am fine with Riikola-Rhuwedel as a 3rd pair playing behind a fast 3rd and 4th lines. Puck retrieval and recovery would be fine, zone exits could be an issue of the forwards don’t help.

We need someone better than Marino to be able to coddle Johnson, we are truely better off burying him and signing another vet who’s a righty but is comfortable also playing the left side as a #7 and have negligible cap difference.
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Re: Riikola signs 2 year, 1.15M AAV extension

Postby murphydump55 on Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:00 pm

Jim wrote:
Crash66 wrote:They wouldn't sign him to trade him, would they?


Statistically, sign-and-trades don't happen.


Seguin was signed and traded before it kicked in I believe?
I believe Jeff Carter as well.
Hossa was a big one in the Heatley trade. Might’ve been the same day.
Subban signed and was traded before his no move clause kicked in I think.
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Re: Riikola signs 2 year, 1.15M AAV extension

Postby Jim on Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:44 am

Seguin - Signed 9/11/12, traded 7/4/13 (after a full season)
Carter - Signed 11/13/10, traded 6/30/11 (after a full season)
Hossa - That's one (same day, signed by Ottawa then traded to Atlanta)
Subban - Signed 8/2/14, traded 6/29/16 (after 2 full seasons). His NTC would have kicked in 7/1/16 but Nashville nixed it.

So, thank you for providing support my comment. Out of all of the signings and all of the trades, thousands and thousands... 1 comes up as a sign-and-trade.
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Re: Riikola signs 2 year, 1.15M AAV extension

Postby Pitts on Tue Sep 08, 2020 1:16 pm

Jim wrote:Seguin - Signed 9/11/12, traded 7/4/13 (after a full season)
Carter - Signed 11/13/10, traded 6/30/11 (after a full season)
Hossa - That's one (same day, signed by Ottawa then traded to Atlanta)
Subban - Signed 8/2/14, traded 6/29/16 (after 2 full seasons). His NTC would have kicked in 7/1/16 but Nashville nixed it.

So, thank you for providing support my comment. Out of all of the signings and all of the trades, thousands and thousands... 1 comes up as a sign-and-trade.

And, if my memory serves me right, the Hossa deal, signing and trading, were all part of the same deal.
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Re: Riikola signs 2 year, 1.15M AAV extension

Postby Jim on Tue Sep 08, 2020 1:53 pm

Pitts wrote:
Jim wrote:Seguin - Signed 9/11/12, traded 7/4/13 (after a full season)
Carter - Signed 11/13/10, traded 6/30/11 (after a full season)
Hossa - That's one (same day, signed by Ottawa then traded to Atlanta)
Subban - Signed 8/2/14, traded 6/29/16 (after 2 full seasons). His NTC would have kicked in 7/1/16 but Nashville nixed it.

So, thank you for providing support my comment. Out of all of the signings and all of the trades, thousands and thousands... 1 comes up as a sign-and-trade.

And, if my memory serves me right, the Hossa deal, signing and trading, were all part of the same deal.


He was officially signed by Ottawa, so that's 1.
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Re: Riikola signs 2 year, 1.15M AAV extension

Postby Pitts on Tue Sep 08, 2020 6:12 pm

Jim wrote:
Pitts wrote:
Jim wrote:Seguin - Signed 9/11/12, traded 7/4/13 (after a full season)
Carter - Signed 11/13/10, traded 6/30/11 (after a full season)
Hossa - That's one (same day, signed by Ottawa then traded to Atlanta)
Subban - Signed 8/2/14, traded 6/29/16 (after 2 full seasons). His NTC would have kicked in 7/1/16 but Nashville nixed it.

So, thank you for providing support my comment. Out of all of the signings and all of the trades, thousands and thousands... 1 comes up as a sign-and-trade.

And, if my memory serves me right, the Hossa deal, signing and trading, were all part of the same deal.


He was officially signed by Ottawa, so that's 1.

No, I mean he agreed to sign, pending the trade completion. I believe he really wanted out of Ottawa.
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Re: Riikola signs 2 year, 1.15M AAV extension

Postby murphydump55 on Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:50 pm

Jim wrote:Seguin - Signed 9/11/12, traded 7/4/13 (after a full season)
Carter - Signed 11/13/10, traded 6/30/11 (after a full season)
Hossa - That's one (same day, signed by Ottawa then traded to Atlanta)
Subban - Signed 8/2/14, traded 6/29/16 (after 2 full seasons). His NTC would have kicked in 7/1/16 but Nashville nixed it.

So, thank you for providing support my comment. Out of all of the signings and all of the trades, thousands and thousands... 1 comes up as a sign-and-trade.



I was going off memory, turns out I was off. However, signing players top players to relatively big contracts and trading them within a year seems odd. I didn’t realize Subban had so long between signing and being traded. It felt like less.
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