Bjugstad to Minny

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Re: Bjugstad to Minny

Postby BlackNGold4Life on Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:07 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
BlackNGold4Life wrote:So you’re the GM and mandated to no buy outs.

You have NB who’s played 70 game’s once in last 5 seasons and has multiple long term injuries coming off back surgery. You have an internal cap at 75M. You want to bring in new younger healthier bodies. There is zero market for NB. Do you keep him?


Yes, I'd play him until he got injured then LTIR him.

To get what Rutherford is trying to achieve done, hes going to have to make more trades. They'll likely be bad trades too


But you still have to pay 5M plus next year in real dollars. See comments on internal Cap issues. Different year. Last year, I would agree with this.
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Re: Bjugstad to Minny

Postby pens_CT on Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:11 pm

FLPensFan wrote:So, Rutherford apparently told Yohe he wants to shed enough salary to make moves when free agency opens.

“Well, I’d really like to be able to get there, to be at the point where we can do something in free agency,” he said. “But we aren’t there yet.”

Rutherford laughed when asked if another trade must be made for the Penguins to be active on Oct. 9.

“Yes,” the normally long-winded Rutherford said.


Or this could all just be GMJR **** with Josh Yohe. Who really knows at this point?


Based on Rutherford's track record in free agency we should be very scared :scared: :scared:
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Re: Bjugstad to Minny

Postby thehockeyguru on Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:11 pm

BlackNGold4Life wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
BlackNGold4Life wrote:So you’re the GM and mandated to no buy outs.

You have NB who’s played 70 game’s once in last 5 seasons and has multiple long term injuries coming off back surgery. You have an internal cap at 75M. You want to bring in new younger healthier bodies. There is zero market for NB. Do you keep him?


Yes, I'd play him until he got injured then LTIR him.

To get what Rutherford is trying to achieve done, hes going to have to make more trades. They'll likely be bad trades too


But you still have to pay 5M plus next year in real dollars. See comments on internal Cap issues. Different year. Last year, I would agree with this.


If hes telling Yohe the truth then hes moving salary to spend more in free agency. You think they are dumping cap because they have to. Rutherford just said that isnt true
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Re: Bjugstad to Minny

Postby Skatingpen on Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:15 pm

BlackNGold4Life wrote:
Skatingpen wrote:
pens_CT wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Nick Bjugstad has played over 70 games 1 time in the past 5 seasons.
Nick Bjugstad has gotten 35 points 1 time in the past 5 seasons.

Gimme the rights to your 80 year old grandmother or something. A one-legged prospect. A blind goalie. Anything.


If the guy has negative trade value, not sure what you expect.



Might as well kept him. They not only got nothing in return, they are still paying him half his salary.


I disagree. Let’s say you use that extra 2M to sign someone like Haula - so it’s Haula for NB next year. What’s better? I agree with you slightly if NB would stay healthy - but that’s probably not gonna happen. And even if he does at 4.1 - is he what the team needs?



Fair, if that situation happens! :)
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Re: Bjugstad to Minny

Postby Skatingpen on Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:19 pm

“ Had the Penguins opted to buy out Bjugstad instead, the implications would have cost them $600,000 toward the cap in 2020-21 and $1.75 million in 2021-22.”

Does this not seem a better option? Since hopefully the cap goes up
Next year?
Last edited by Skatingpen on Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bjugstad to Minny

Postby Cim2217 on Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:19 pm

Who’s it gonna be gentlemen?! Gotta be Horny, right?
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Re: Bjugstad to Minny

Postby BlackNGold4Life on Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:20 pm

Skatingpen wrote:
BlackNGold4Life wrote:
Skatingpen wrote:
pens_CT wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Nick Bjugstad has played over 70 games 1 time in the past 5 seasons.
Nick Bjugstad has gotten 35 points 1 time in the past 5 seasons.

Gimme the rights to your 80 year old grandmother or something. A one-legged prospect. A blind goalie. Anything.


If the guy has negative trade value, not sure what you expect.



Might as well kept him. They not only got nothing in return, they are still paying him half his salary.


I disagree. Let’s say you use that extra 2M to sign someone like Haula - so it’s Haula for NB next year. What’s better? I agree with you slightly if NB would stay healthy - but that’s probably not gonna happen. And even if he does at 4.1 - is he what the team needs?



Fair, if that situation happens! :)
I think that’s their “hope”. Also, could see them giving someone a 2-3 year deal with more actual dollars given in year 2 and 3 when things should be normal. Like 2.5, 3.5, 3.0. 9M over 3 years. You save 2.6 M in actually money for a contact like that, this year. But you lose about 500k towards the cap. Let’s see who they sign in that range.
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Re: Bjugstad to Minny

Postby thehockeyguru on Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:21 pm

Skatingpen wrote:
BlackNGold4Life wrote:
Skatingpen wrote:
pens_CT wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Nick Bjugstad has played over 70 games 1 time in the past 5 seasons.
Nick Bjugstad has gotten 35 points 1 time in the past 5 seasons.

Gimme the rights to your 80 year old grandmother or something. A one-legged prospect. A blind goalie. Anything.


If the guy has negative trade value, not sure what you expect.



Might as well kept him. They not only got nothing in return, they are still paying him half his salary.


I disagree. Let’s say you use that extra 2M to sign someone like Haula - so it’s Haula for NB next year. What’s better? I agree with you slightly if NB would stay healthy - but that’s probably not gonna happen. And even if he does at 4.1 - is he what the team needs?



Fair, if that situation happens! :)


How much are you going to pay Haula? 3.5M? You likely have to move 100% of JJs salary and another roster player like McCann.

Good luck
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Re: Bjugstad to Minny

Postby BlackNGold4Life on Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:22 pm

Skatingpen wrote:“ Had the Penguins opted to buy out Bjugstad instead, the implications would have cost them $600,000 toward the cap in 2020-21 and $1.75 million in 2021-22.”

Does this not seem a better option? Since hopefully the cap goes up
Next year?
Normally yes, but in actual dollars they have to spend when check year teams could all lose money. It matters.
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Re: Bjugstad to Minny

Postby Ohio_Pens_fan on Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:16 pm

Is this legal (in terms of NHL rules):

Could this be part of another deal with Minnesota? We make a trade which is favorable to Minnesota involving Murray (the particulars are not important in making my point). In return for making the trade favorable to them, Minnesota buys out Bjugstad. For the next 2 years each team will pay $300K in '20-'21 and $875K in '21-'22. Highly doubtful that it happens but I'd like to know if it could be done.
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Re: Bjugstad to Minny

Postby BlackNGold4Life on Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:20 pm

Ohio_Pens_fan wrote:Is this legal (in terms of NHL rules):

Could this be part of another deal with Minnesota? We make a trade which is favorable to Minnesota involving Murray (the particulars are not important in making my point). In return for making the trade favorable to them, Minnesota buys out Bjugstad. For the next 2 years each team will pay $300K in '20-'21 and $875K in '21-'22. Highly doubtful that it happens but I'd like to know if it could be done.


Not sure. If MN buys our NB, we gain aback the cap space, I can’t be sure if that’s legal.
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Re: Bjugstad to Minny

Postby Dr Rosenrosen on Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:23 pm

FLPensFan wrote:Based on what Rutherford just told reporters:

--He thinks Blueger can take on more responsibility.
--If Blueger can't do it, he says they also have Lafferty that can step in.
--He also mentions needing to find someone that has chemistry with McCann.

So, if I’m following correctly, the answer to “shaking up” the bottom 6 is to give more responsibility to one of the six and find “chemistry” for another. The answer to bottom pair RD is promote the backup to the guy you trashed on the way out of town.

All the pieces are just falling into place!
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Re: Bjugstad to Minny

Postby BlackNGold4Life on Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:24 pm

Dr Rosenrosen wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Based on what Rutherford just told reporters:

--He thinks Blueger can take on more responsibility.
--If Blueger can't do it, he says they also have Lafferty that can step in.
--He also mentions needing to find someone that has chemistry with McCann.

So, if I’m following correctly, the answer to “shaking up” the bottom 6 is to give more responsibility to one of the six and find “chemistry” for another. The answer to bottom pair RD is promote the backup to the guy you trashed on the way out of town.

All the pieces are just falling into place!


Hahaha. Great take.
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Re: Bjugstad to Minny

Postby BlackNGold4Life on Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:26 pm

Dr Rosenrosen wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Based on what Rutherford just told reporters:

--He thinks Blueger can take on more responsibility.
--If Blueger can't do it, he says they also have Lafferty that can step in.
--He also mentions needing to find someone that has chemistry with McCann.

So, if I’m following correctly, the answer to “shaking up” the bottom 6 is to give more responsibility to one of the six and find “chemistry” for another. The answer to bottom pair RD is promote the backup to the guy you trashed on the way out of town.

All the pieces are just falling into place!


Hahaha. Great take.
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Re: Bjugstad to Minny

Postby FLPensFan on Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:54 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
BlackNGold4Life wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
BlackNGold4Life wrote:So you’re the GM and mandated to no buy outs.

You have NB who’s played 70 game’s once in last 5 seasons and has multiple long term injuries coming off back surgery. You have an internal cap at 75M. You want to bring in new younger healthier bodies. There is zero market for NB. Do you keep him?


Yes, I'd play him until he got injured then LTIR him.

To get what Rutherford is trying to achieve done, hes going to have to make more trades. They'll likely be bad trades too


But you still have to pay 5M plus next year in real dollars. See comments on internal Cap issues. Different year. Last year, I would agree with this.


If hes telling Yohe the truth then hes moving salary to spend more in free agency. You think they are dumping cap because they have to. Rutherford just said that isnt true

Great. When you only dump 50% of the salary....you ain't getting much in free agency. Maybe we can sign Derek Grant.

If you are going to get absolutely nothing for Bjugstad.....if that was his value....you keep him and give it a try. This seemed more like a favor to Bjugstad and Guerin than it did GMJR trying to make a hockey trade.
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Re: Bjugstad to Minny

Postby pens_CT on Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:59 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
BlackNGold4Life wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
BlackNGold4Life wrote:So you’re the GM and mandated to no buy outs.

You have NB who’s played 70 game’s once in last 5 seasons and has multiple long term injuries coming off back surgery. You have an internal cap at 75M. You want to bring in new younger healthier bodies. There is zero market for NB. Do you keep him?


Yes, I'd play him until he got injured then LTIR him.

To get what Rutherford is trying to achieve done, hes going to have to make more trades. They'll likely be bad trades too


But you still have to pay 5M plus next year in real dollars. See comments on internal Cap issues. Different year. Last year, I would agree with this.


If hes telling Yohe the truth then hes moving salary to spend more in free agency. You think they are dumping cap because they have to. Rutherford just said that isnt true

Great. When you only dump 50% of the salary....you ain't getting much in free agency. Maybe we can sign Derek Grant.

If you are going to get absolutely nothing for Bjugstad.....if that was his value....you keep him and give it a try. This seemed more like a favor to Bjugstad and Guerin than it did GMJR trying to make a hockey trade.


When he costs you 5.2 million in actual salary, and starting off next season with little to no fans allowed (most likely), you cut your losses, and move him. Not the environment to give it a try.
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Re: Bjugstad to Minny

Postby Hatrick on Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:32 am

retaining salary and only getting a 7th...? fire GMJR now he officially is senile.
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Re: Bjugstad to Minny

Postby KG on Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:49 am

Covid people ....back surgery . I guess we should be happy with what we got .

This is not your typical year ....
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Re: Bjugstad to Minny

Postby SubtropicalPenguin on Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:42 am

Steve Dave wrote:
BlackNGold4Life wrote:Does the conditional 7th mean if he plays X amount of games it goes to a 5th or 4th. Do we have those details yet?

Pens receive a 7th from Min (2021 draft) if Bjugstad plays 70 games or scores 35 points.


If bjugstad plays 70 games, minnesota will have won this deal massively. Given the salary retention and conditions, the pick really should have been higher. Keep this same deal, and make the pick a conditional 4th rounder, and it may have been a little easier to swallow.

I would have preferred to just roll the dice on a healthy half a season from bjugstad than make this deal. If he stayed healthy for half the season, as an expiring contract, he could have had a much better return. If, on the other hand, he gets injured again - send him to the IR, and the salary cap situation is ameliorated.

I hate seeing over 2 million in dead cap space on a team with probably a two year window. This severely limits the Pens' options this year. I'm honestly surprised there was no market for a player like bjugstad with only one year of term. I didn't expect a good return, but I thought he would at least be able to be given away for a mid to late pick.
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Re: Bjugstad to Minny

Postby pekkasteele on Sat Sep 12, 2020 3:21 am

If he goes on LTIR in MN, will the part we retained also go to LTIR then?
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Re: Bjugstad to Minny

Postby longtimefan on Sat Sep 12, 2020 6:46 am

To those who have suggested they buy out Bjugstad but are now throwing a fit, what's your reasoning? In essence, they just did. A buyout would have cost them $3.5M in real dollars, and a cap hit this season of $600K, and next season, $1.75M. So they decided to take a $2.05M hit this season, without a hit next season. Plus a real dollars saving of $1.45M, which is relevant when you're starved for revenue. If you sign Lafferty for the minimum, the $1.5M in savings will be pay all but $50K of his and Blueger's salaries this season.

Everybody needs to take a wait and see approach. I recall reading how badly they lost the Zucker trade, and then saw it rated as the best of the deadline deals this season. Giving up a 1st and a top 50 prospect was viewed as a fleecing. What's that say about Tampa using it's two 1st rounders to acquire Coleman and Goodrow? And including their own top 50 prospect in the Coleman deal. I don't see this as the Pens trying to cut payroll because of an internal cap. JR mentioned that he had to keep the team cap compliant. Nick's $5.25M salary coming off a major injury was a bigger barrier than we thought. JR mentioned that everybody in the league is trying to cut salary. Some because of the flat cap, but a great many with self-imposed caps. Dreger said the other night that many teams are looking to stay in the low '70's.

There's been numerous RFA signings. The highest cap hit to date was given to Fabbri by Detroit. It's $2.95M. No one has been given more. Read into it what you'd like. But here's a couple of quotes from JR.

“You’ve got to realize that teams don’t know how much money they’ll be making next season and moving forward,” he said. “Plus, teams all thought (before the pandemic) the salary cap for next season was going to be anywhere between $3 million and $6 million higher than what it is. So, everyone is in a pretty difficult situation, and that includes us.”


“First things first, we need to get to a point where we are comfortable that we’ll be compliant with the cap,” Rutherford said.”


“It’s been an extremely busy five or six weeks,” he said. “Phone is ringing a lot. There’s a lot of talk about a lot of things around the league right now. Everybody is trying to put themselves in a spot where they are comfortable financially. In today’s climate, it’s really tough. Everyone is trying to make deals, but coming up with fair deals is really hard. Everyone is worried about the cap. Everyone. Not just this year, but into the future. And remember, we have an expansion draft next season. There are so, so many variables right now. It’s just not easy for anyone. But that said, we have some moves to make, and we’d like to change this team around.”


Rutherford will continue hitting the phones this weekend and beyond. Unhappy with his team’s performance during the past two seasons, he wants to change the supporting cast but to keep Sidney Crosby, Evgeni Malkin and Kris Letang on his roster.

The work continues.

“We’ll see what happens next,” he said. “I’ll do everything I can to make this a better hockey team.”


First off, the talk about JR going back on what he said at the end of the season is misplaced. He still says the same things. He'd like to change things up. It's not like he isn't trying! But he's not a magician when there doesn't appear to be anyone comfortable with their situation. It's not just the cap, it's real dollars. And it's not just flat for one season. There's no way it doesn't remain flat in '21-'22. Not with the likelihood of playing at least a part of the season with no fans, or a small percentage of capacity. Not to mention the possibility of the season being shortened depending on when they can start. You've got to be prepared. Not just the Pens, but everybody.

Priority one is compliance. The deal likely allows for that with the current roster, even after re-signing all of their remaining RFAs. His comments on McCann suggests they are leaning toward keeping him. Which leads me to believe that they feel his contract demands will be reasonable. He stated he was a little concerned about that at season's end. Realistically, even after the trade, they are going to be close to the cap.

JR wasn't misleading anybody. It's going to be a process, and they have to see what they can actually do. They aren't unique. It's across the league. Everybody is looking to dump salary, but there's no takers. In less than a month, the buyout period will likely be very active. Which will increase the number of players on the UFA market. I keep seeing people estimate Haula's salary as $3M. Normally, I'd say that's a bit light. But he may actually have to take a pay cut from his current $2.75M cap hit. I suspect you'll see a lot of bargain prices this season. Likely short term and low dollar. JR hopes to be able to participate, but still has to clear cap room to do so in a meaningful way. So there's work to be done.

Getting younger and changing things up was the plan. It still is. But you may have to take a different tact. You may have to count on some of the prospects to take a step forward. Like they did in '15-'16 with the WBS group. Or like the Caps did the year they had to purge salary because the cap caught up to them. They were roundly panned that summer, and were expected to take a dramatic fall. Instead they won the Cup.

At some point, you've got to give people a shot to sink or swim. Some aren't comfortable with Blueger because he hasn't been a 3C before. Although he really was for 80% of the season. But he actually stacks up fine against most of the suggestions I've seen. Lafferty looked like he may had taken a step forward when they had the camp games this summer. He's been in the league for a season. It might be worth giving him a regular spot to lose. Perhaps the re-tooling of the bottom six will have to include guys like Poulin, O'Conner, Angello, and Miletic. They are no more unknown than Rust, Sheary, Kuhnhackl, etc. You don't always have to go outside the organization to change thigs up.

It's also safe to assume that the team will be a WIP a good portion of the season, and they likely will be active at the deadline. I'm sure he'll continue to try and clear cap space by moving out a contract or two. Maybe he can, maybe he can't. But that's the climate. So you deal with it. Before going overboard on the criticism, wait to see what happens elsewhere around the league.

Next up is the Murray deal, and the RFA signings.

But as far as the Bjugstad deal, if you were a proponent of buying him out, they did.
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Re: Bjugstad to Minny

Postby Tico Rick on Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:33 am

It’s quite possible that Bjugstad has just a few dozen games left in his NHL career. It’s also quite possible that both GMJR and Guerin realize this, yet Guerin is willing to make a reclamation project of the Minny boy. I have no problem with this trade.
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Re: Bjugstad to Minny

Postby ville5 on Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:44 am

Tico Rick wrote:It’s quite possible that Bjugstad has just a few dozen games left in his NHL career. It’s also quite possible that both GMJR and Guerin realize this, yet Guerin is willing to make a reclamation project of the Minny boy. I have no problem with this trade.

A point being overlooked- what happens if Bjugstad gets LTIRed again. Which is the odds on favorite at this point. Now they can't bank cap for deadline. With the uncertain financial landscape moving forward, this may not be as bad as I originally thought. But, was it a case of Jimmy and Billy getting Bjugstad back home? Could Jimmy have gone to Ottawa and gotten a better pick? We armchair gms certainly portray to know, but truth be we don't know what goes on behind the scenes. Maybe it was his best offer.
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Re: Bjugstad to Minny

Postby thehockeyguru on Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:53 am

ville5 wrote:
Tico Rick wrote:It’s quite possible that Bjugstad has just a few dozen games left in his NHL career. It’s also quite possible that both GMJR and Guerin realize this, yet Guerin is willing to make a reclamation project of the Minny boy. I have no problem with this trade.

A point being overlooked- what happens if Bjugstad gets LTIRed again. Which is the odds on favorite at this point. Now they can't bank cap for deadline. With the uncertain financial landscape moving forward, this may not be as bad as I originally thought. But, was it a case of Jimmy and Billy getting Bjugstad back home? Could Jimmy have gone to Ottawa and gotten a better pick? We armchair gms certainly portray to know, but truth be we don't know what goes on behind the scenes. Maybe it was his best offer.


From a cap perspective the better move would have been a buy out instead of this trade. So to say this was a hockey move is false, it was purely a financial move.
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Re: Bjugstad to Minny

Postby Steve Dave on Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:06 am

CapFriendly is showing that if Bjugstad is bought out, both Min and Pit would have cap hits of $300k this season and $875 next. Can anyone verify this to be correct? If so, it looks as if Billy G could be doing JR a favor if he buys out Bjugstad. Each team would save $1.75 against the cap.
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