Hornqvist Traded to Panthers for Matheson

[murphydump55]

Apparently Hornqvist threw all his Pens gear outside in front of his house. Yikes. Sad ending.

Immature and childish if that’s the case.

[blurryhaze312]

It's very possible that this single photo is taken out of context. If the guy were pissed and threw that stuff in the driveway, it's awful tidy to me. Shoes sat perfectly side-by-side next to the rest of the gear. I can 100% see him being upset, but I don't know I buy this.

[ville5]

It's very possible that this single photo is taken out of context. If the guy were pissed and threw that stuff in the driveway, it's awful tidy to me. Shoes sat perfectly side-by-side next to the rest of the gear. I can 100% see him being upset, but I don't know I buy this.

C'mon. You don't believe some random guy's co-worker lol?

[ville5]

"When I found out Pittsburgh didn't want me and Florida wanted me, it was an easy choice." - Patric Hornqvist today to media...

Also, per Panthers, Hornqvist will wear #70 for Florida.

Love you Horny. But we all knew once you signed that extension you weren't going to be here for the duration of the contract.

Everyone ecxept Horny knew. Apparently he thought a NTC was a NTC. Pfft.

[murphydump55]

"When I found out Pittsburgh didn't want me and Florida wanted me, it was an easy choice." - Patric Hornqvist today to media...

Also, per Panthers, Hornqvist will wear #70 for Florida.

Love you Horny. But we all knew once you signed that extension you weren't going to be here for the duration of the contract.

Everyone ecxept Horny knew. Apparently he thought a NTC was a NTC. Pfft.

It still is. He didn’t have to accept it. He could have exercised his right. Obviously it sucks to learn they want to trade you. And the fact that GMJR apparently did it without informing him is kind of a blow.

[BigMcK]

I would think that with a trade all terms of a contract follow the player? With that, if your contract has dollars tied to performance, and you go from a contender to a pretender, that also impacts direct earnings. Score 30 goals, earn $. Score 40 goals, earn more $$$.

Makes one wonder if a older player would accept a performance incentive based contract, or tend to look at a wage guarantee?

Also, do performance bonuses count against the salary cap?

[FLPensFan]

I would think that with a trade all terms of a contract follow the player? With that, if your contract has dollars tied to performance, and you go from a contender to a pretender, that also impacts direct earnings. Score 30 goals, earn $. Score 40 goals, earn more $$$.

Makes one wonder if a older player would accept a performance incentive based contract, or tend to look at a wage guarantee?

Also, do performance bonuses count against the salary cap?

Hornqvist has no performance bonuses in his contract. Other than ELCs, performance bonuses are pretty rare, because I believe they are capped at a max of around 2.5M per year. And yes, they do count against the cap when players earn those bonuses.

[Daniel]

It's very possible that this single photo is taken out of context. If the guy were pissed and threw that stuff in the driveway, it's awful tidy to me. Shoes sat perfectly side-by-side next to the rest of the gear. I can 100% see him being upset, but I don't know I buy this.

It’s also very possible the photo was taken in front of a random house years ago and the gear is waiting to be picked up. Does anyone know where Hornqvist lives and what his home looks like? Is he even in the country or is he in Europe? That picture can be anything.

[FLPensFan]

It's very possible that this single photo is taken out of context. If the guy were pissed and threw that stuff in the driveway, it's awful tidy to me. Shoes sat perfectly side-by-side next to the rest of the gear. I can 100% see him being upset, but I don't know I buy this.

It’s also very possible the photo was taken in front of a random house years ago and the gear is waiting to be picked up. Does anyone know where Hornqvist lives and what his home looks like? Is he even in the country or is he in Europe? That picture can be anything.

Many people are saying that all it is, is Hornqvist airing out his equipment after skating yesterday....nothing more than that.

[ville5]

"When I found out Pittsburgh didn't want me and Florida wanted me, it was an easy choice." - Patric Hornqvist today to media...

Also, per Panthers, Hornqvist will wear #70 for Florida.

Sounds a bit immature...I would have expected him to keep that type of response to himself and use it as motivation internally. He should know it’s a numbers game unless he was one of the “too comfortable” culprits....

He's the same off ice as on. Meaning, he wears his emotions on his sleeve. I remember Mark Recchi openly crying when the Pens traded him in the Tocchet deal. I have no problems with it. It's tough and he was shocked.

Maybe GMJR knew this was the best way to get Patric to accept the trade?
Use his emotions against him.

[BleuLineLady]

Some people will definitely disagree with this, but if Rutherford does what it seems he's trying to do, I think he's on the right track. Bring in more experienced youth. Guys in their early/mid twenties who have experience and are entering their primes and who havent won anything yet.

More changes are coming and likely needed, but its probably the only formula that could result in success and avoiding stagnation. By mid season, it could be close to a completely different roster than what we saw 2 years ago. Instead of accepting middling results, he's trying to do a full rebuild on the fly.

Rutherford looks at players, contracts and picks in an unconventional way but I think the right way.

-Proven players who have futures still are better than 1st round picks that are exciting but are riskier and require more time.
-Contract length matters less than what people think. He believes he has the ability and will to trade almost anyone short of a couple exceptions.
-Some players who have won get comfortable and need to move on despite it hurting. I wish this lesson was learned faster after the 09 season. It took 5 years for them to realize the team was arrogant and too comfortable before significant changes were made.

Lets see what Rutherford does from here, but you have to give credit for him never hesitating to making big moves. It would be far far worse if we had a gm just letting the team stagnate hoping stability would bring success.

[FLPensFan]

Some people will definitely disagree with this, but if Rutherford does what it seems he's trying to do, I think he's on the right track. Bring in more experienced youth. Guys in their early/mid twenties who have experience and are entering their primes and who havent won anything yet.

More changes are coming and likely needed, but its probably the only formula that could result in success and avoiding stagnation. By mid season, it could be close to a completely different roster than what we saw 2 years ago. Instead of accepting middling results, he's trying to do a full rebuild on the fly.

Rutherford looks at players, contracts and picks in an unconventional way but I think the right way.

-Proven players who have futures still are better than 1st round picks that are exciting but are riskier and require more time.
-Contract length matters less than what people think. He believes he has the ability and will to trade almost anyone short of a couple exceptions.
-Some players who have won get comfortable and need to move on despite it hurting. I wish this lesson was learned faster after the 09 season. It took 5 years for them to realize the team was arrogant and too comfortable before significant changes were made.

Lets see what Rutherford does from here, but you have to give credit for him never hesitating to making big moves. It would be far far worse if we had a gm just letting the team stagnate hoping stability would bring success.

I've taught myself to have patience. Wait at least 48 hours after any deal to have a good, level headed feedback. I jumped off the GMJR bandwagon a week or so ago. I've jumped back on, but, I'm still standing on the edge with one foot off.

--Kapanen>>Simon on line 1
--Matheson>>Johnson on line 3. Contract is an issue, but, if Matheson regains his form, Matheson>>Pettersson on the 2nd pair, and his contract is fine for 2nd pairing
--Sceviour is a push. He's not bad. He's not overly expensive. His ability to play all 3 positions is a plus.
--GMJR dumped Bjugstad and Hornqvist contracts.

Main items left for GMJR
1) Sign RFAs
2) Trade Murray
3) Trade Johnson
4) Maybe add one more UFA forward for cheap

I think #3 impacts any potential Murray return. I'd rather get a good return and keep Johnson than get a poor return. Penguins can survive without moving Johnson and still sign Jarry, Lafferty, and Angello or Simon.

[ville5]

Some people will definitely disagree with this, but if Rutherford does what it seems he's trying to do, I think he's on the right track. Bring in more experienced youth. Guys in their early/mid twenties who have experience and are entering their primes and who havent won anything yet.

More changes are coming and likely needed, but its probably the only formula that could result in success and avoiding stagnation. By mid season, it could be close to a completely different roster than what we saw 2 years ago. Instead of accepting middling results, he's trying to do a full rebuild on the fly.

Rutherford looks at players, contracts and picks in an unconventional way but I think the right way.

-Proven players who have futures still are better than 1st round picks that are exciting but are riskier and require more time.
-Contract length matters less than what people think. He believes he has the ability and will to trade almost anyone short of a couple exceptions.
-Some players who have won get comfortable and need to move on despite it hurting. I wish this lesson was learned faster after the 09 season. It took 5 years for them to realize the team was arrogant and too comfortable before significant changes were made.

Lets see what Rutherford does from here, but you have to give credit for him never hesitating to making big moves. It would be far far worse if we had a gm just letting the team stagnate hoping stability would bring success.

I've taught myself to have patience. Wait at least 48 hours after any deal to have a good, level headed feedback. I jumped off the GMJR bandwagon a week or so ago. I've jumped back on, but, I'm still standing on the edge with one foot off.

--Kapanen>>Simon on line 1
--Matheson>>Johnson on line 3. Contract is an issue, but, if Matheson regains his form, Matheson>>Pettersson on the 2nd pair, and his contract is fine for 2nd pairing
--Sceviour is a push. He's not bad. He's not overly expensive. His ability to play all 3 positions is a plus.
--GMJR dumped Bjugstad and Hornqvist contracts.

Main items left for GMJR
1) Sign RFAs
2) Trade Murray
3) Trade Johnson
4) Maybe add one more UFA forward for cheap

I think #3 impacts any potential Murray return. I'd rather get a good return and keep Johnson than get a poor return. Penguins can survive without moving Johnson and still sign Jarry, Lafferty, and Angello or Simon.

#4 is no maybe. You need a 3rd line forward who can put up points. If Teddy is 3C, you need a RW. If Teddy isn't your 3C, you need one of those.
And another trade is coming besides Murray. Otherwise, you have no cap space after rfas resigned.

[Ericf]

Some people will definitely disagree with this, but if Rutherford does what it seems he's trying to do, I think he's on the right track. Bring in more experienced youth. Guys in their early/mid twenties who have experience and are entering their primes and who havent won anything yet.

More changes are coming and likely needed, but its probably the only formula that could result in success and avoiding stagnation. By mid season, it could be close to a completely different roster than what we saw 2 years ago. Instead of accepting middling results, he's trying to do a full rebuild on the fly.

Rutherford looks at players, contracts and picks in an unconventional way but I think the right way.

-Proven players who have futures still are better than 1st round picks that are exciting but are riskier and require more time.
-Contract length matters less than what people think. He believes he has the ability and will to trade almost anyone short of a couple exceptions.
-Some players who have won get comfortable and need to move on despite it hurting. I wish this lesson was learned faster after the 09 season. It took 5 years for them to realize the team was arrogant and too comfortable before significant changes were made.

Lets see what Rutherford does from here, but you have to give credit for him never hesitating to making big moves. It would be far far worse if we had a gm just letting the team stagnate hoping stability would bring success.

I've taught myself to have patience. Wait at least 48 hours after any deal to have a good, level headed feedback. I jumped off the GMJR bandwagon a week or so ago. I've jumped back on, but, I'm still standing on the edge with one foot off.

--Kapanen>>Simon on line 1
--Matheson>>Johnson on line 3. Contract is an issue, but, if Matheson regains his form, Matheson>>Pettersson on the 2nd pair, and his contract is fine for 2nd pairing
--Sceviour is a push. He's not bad. He's not overly expensive. His ability to play all 3 positions is a plus.
--GMJR dumped Bjugstad and Hornqvist contracts.

Main items left for GMJR
1) Sign RFAs
2) Trade Murray
3) Trade Johnson
4) Maybe add one more UFA forward for cheap

I think #3 impacts any potential Murray return. I'd rather get a good return and keep Johnson than get a poor return. Penguins can survive without moving Johnson and still sign Jarry, Lafferty, and Angello or Simon.

I don’t think they’ll be able to trade JJ, even with some retention, unless they offer up a significant asset, and I think JR knows that. Given that situation, they have a better solution than keeping him: buy him out. His buy out is cheap and I don’t understand why they don’t do it. It costs them about $1.1 mil for the next three years and then $916k after that. It’s like paying a 14th forward to be on the roster. They save $2.1 mil each of the next two years, which is Rutherford’s professed window.

[brwi]

It's very possible that this single photo is taken out of context. If the guy were pissed and threw that stuff in the driveway, it's awful tidy to me. Shoes sat perfectly side-by-side next to the rest of the gear. I can 100% see him being upset, but I don't know I buy this.

It’s also very possible the photo was taken in front of a random house years ago and the gear is waiting to be picked up. Does anyone know where Hornqvist lives and what his home looks like? Is he even in the country or is he in Europe? That picture can be anything.

This was my first thought too.

[FLPensFan]

Some people will definitely disagree with this, but if Rutherford does what it seems he's trying to do, I think he's on the right track. Bring in more experienced youth. Guys in their early/mid twenties who have experience and are entering their primes and who havent won anything yet.

More changes are coming and likely needed, but its probably the only formula that could result in success and avoiding stagnation. By mid season, it could be close to a completely different roster than what we saw 2 years ago. Instead of accepting middling results, he's trying to do a full rebuild on the fly.

Rutherford looks at players, contracts and picks in an unconventional way but I think the right way.

-Proven players who have futures still are better than 1st round picks that are exciting but are riskier and require more time.
-Contract length matters less than what people think. He believes he has the ability and will to trade almost anyone short of a couple exceptions.
-Some players who have won get comfortable and need to move on despite it hurting. I wish this lesson was learned faster after the 09 season. It took 5 years for them to realize the team was arrogant and too comfortable before significant changes were made.

Lets see what Rutherford does from here, but you have to give credit for him never hesitating to making big moves. It would be far far worse if we had a gm just letting the team stagnate hoping stability would bring success.

I've taught myself to have patience. Wait at least 48 hours after any deal to have a good, level headed feedback. I jumped off the GMJR bandwagon a week or so ago. I've jumped back on, but, I'm still standing on the edge with one foot off.

--Kapanen>>Simon on line 1
--Matheson>>Johnson on line 3. Contract is an issue, but, if Matheson regains his form, Matheson>>Pettersson on the 2nd pair, and his contract is fine for 2nd pairing
--Sceviour is a push. He's not bad. He's not overly expensive. His ability to play all 3 positions is a plus.
--GMJR dumped Bjugstad and Hornqvist contracts.

Main items left for GMJR
1) Sign RFAs
2) Trade Murray
3) Trade Johnson
4) Maybe add one more UFA forward for cheap

I think #3 impacts any potential Murray return. I'd rather get a good return and keep Johnson than get a poor return. Penguins can survive without moving Johnson and still sign Jarry, Lafferty, and Angello or Simon.

I don’t think they’ll be able to trade JJ, even with some retention, unless they offer up a significant asset, and I think JR knows that. Given that situation, they have a better solution than keeping him: buy him out. His buy out is cheap and I don’t understand why they don’t do it. It costs them about $1.1 mil for the next three years and then $916k after that. It’s like paying a 14th forward to be on the roster. They save $2.1 mil each of the next two years, which is Rutherford’s professed window.

It's 1.1M for 2 years, then 1.9M for a year, then 916K for 3 years. You turn 3 years of contract into 6. I'd rather just keep him as a 7th/8th, and send him to the AHL if you need an extra 1M in cap space at any point.
If GMJR could trade JJ with Simon's rights, without retention, or if he could give up a prospect like a Bellerive type go for it. But we can't afford to give up picks with JJ just to move him, and, I don't know what the market is for Murray but, my gut says Murray on his own might get you a 2nd and a B-level prospect, and Murray with Johnson is maybe a 3rd or just a B/C level prospect. I'd rather get the better return.

[FLPensFan]

Some people will definitely disagree with this, but if Rutherford does what it seems he's trying to do, I think he's on the right track. Bring in more experienced youth. Guys in their early/mid twenties who have experience and are entering their primes and who havent won anything yet.

More changes are coming and likely needed, but its probably the only formula that could result in success and avoiding stagnation. By mid season, it could be close to a completely different roster than what we saw 2 years ago. Instead of accepting middling results, he's trying to do a full rebuild on the fly.

Rutherford looks at players, contracts and picks in an unconventional way but I think the right way.

-Proven players who have futures still are better than 1st round picks that are exciting but are riskier and require more time.
-Contract length matters less than what people think. He believes he has the ability and will to trade almost anyone short of a couple exceptions.
-Some players who have won get comfortable and need to move on despite it hurting. I wish this lesson was learned faster after the 09 season. It took 5 years for them to realize the team was arrogant and too comfortable before significant changes were made.

Lets see what Rutherford does from here, but you have to give credit for him never hesitating to making big moves. It would be far far worse if we had a gm just letting the team stagnate hoping stability would bring success.

I've taught myself to have patience. Wait at least 48 hours after any deal to have a good, level headed feedback. I jumped off the GMJR bandwagon a week or so ago. I've jumped back on, but, I'm still standing on the edge with one foot off.

--Kapanen>>Simon on line 1
--Matheson>>Johnson on line 3. Contract is an issue, but, if Matheson regains his form, Matheson>>Pettersson on the 2nd pair, and his contract is fine for 2nd pairing
--Sceviour is a push. He's not bad. He's not overly expensive. His ability to play all 3 positions is a plus.
--GMJR dumped Bjugstad and Hornqvist contracts.

Main items left for GMJR
1) Sign RFAs
2) Trade Murray
3) Trade Johnson
4) Maybe add one more UFA forward for cheap

I think #3 impacts any potential Murray return. I'd rather get a good return and keep Johnson than get a poor return. Penguins can survive without moving Johnson and still sign Jarry, Lafferty, and Angello or Simon.

#4 is no maybe. You need a 3rd line forward who can put up points. If Teddy is 3C, you need a RW. If Teddy isn't your 3C, you need one of those.
And another trade is coming besides Murray. Otherwise, you have no cap space after rfas resigned.

I don't see them having the cap space to add a guy like that, even if they move Johnson. There aren't a ton of UFAs out there that will fit that mold, and the ones that are probably arent' going to be available for the 3.25M in cap space moving Johnson would open up.

This is why I think getting a young NHL ready prospect like Mittlestadt, Marody, McLeod, etc is a must in a Murray deal. It at least gives you the potential option of going McCann-Mittlestadt-Poulin.

[largegarlic]

I've come around a bit on the trade after hearing more in-depth scouting reports of Matheson. The initial ones were "OMG! Worst contract in the league! Healthy scratch in the playoffs!" And I was never on board with the idea of dumping Hornqvist for whatever we could get. He was still a useful player, even if overpaid at this point, and I would have preferred keeping him over adding a useless player with an equally bad contract.

It seems, though, like Rutherford is taking a calculated risk that he could be a Niskanen-like reclamation project. I still would have preferred a reclamation project at RD or 3C, but if Matheson can become Niskanen 2.0, and Johnson is moved to clear cap space and the log jam at LD, this will end up a good trade. Two big "ifs" there, of course.

[GSdrums87]

I've come around a bit on the trade after hearing more in-depth scouting reports of Matheson. The initial ones were "OMG! Worst contract in the league! Healthy scratch in the playoffs!" And I was never on board with the idea of dumping Hornqvist for whatever we could get. He was still a useful player, even if overpaid at this point, and I would have preferred keeping him over adding a useless player with an equally bad contract.

It seems, though, like Rutherford is taking a calculated risk that he could be a Niskanen-like reclamation project. I still would have preferred a reclamation project at RD or 3C, but if Matheson can become Niskanen 2.0, and Johnson is moved to clear cap space and the log jam at LD, this will end up a good trade. Two big "ifs" there, of course.

Agreed. My stance is, if he can play the way we were hoping Schultz could, its a big win.

If Sullivan pulls his head out of his ass and puts Matheson on the top unit instead of Letang, I bet the numbers go up.

[murphydump55]

I've come around a bit on the trade after hearing more in-depth scouting reports of Matheson. The initial ones were "OMG! Worst contract in the league! Healthy scratch in the playoffs!" And I was never on board with the idea of dumping Hornqvist for whatever we could get. He was still a useful player, even if overpaid at this point, and I would have preferred keeping him over adding a useless player with an equally bad contract.

It seems, though, like Rutherford is taking a calculated risk that he could be a Niskanen-like reclamation project. I still would have preferred a reclamation project at RD or 3C, but if Matheson can become Niskanen 2.0, and Johnson is moved to clear cap space and the log jam at LD, this will end up a good trade. Two big "ifs" there, of course.

Agreed. My stance is, if he can play the way we were hoping Schultz could, its a big win.

If Sullivan pulls his head out of his ass and puts Matheson on the top unit instead of Letang, I bet the numbers go up.

Jesus. They aren’t in the same hemisphere.

From healthy scratch on a bad team to 1st pairing D?

[Jim]

It's very possible that this single photo is taken out of context. If the guy were pissed and threw that stuff in the driveway, it's awful tidy to me. Shoes sat perfectly side-by-side next to the rest of the gear. I can 100% see him being upset, but I don't know I buy this.

It’s also very possible the photo was taken in front of a random house years ago and the gear is waiting to be picked up. Does anyone know where Hornqvist lives and what his home looks like? Is he even in the country or is he in Europe? That picture can be anything.

This was my first thought too.

Do professional players actually take their team equipment home? Jerseys? Pants? Seems like most of that would just "stay at the office"

[ville5]

2021 2nd and Staal to Detroit for future considerations.
Nice circumvention of the cap lol.

[FLPensFan]

It's very possible that this single photo is taken out of context. If the guy were pissed and threw that stuff in the driveway, it's awful tidy to me. Shoes sat perfectly side-by-side next to the rest of the gear. I can 100% see him being upset, but I don't know I buy this.

It’s also very possible the photo was taken in front of a random house years ago and the gear is waiting to be picked up. Does anyone know where Hornqvist lives and what his home looks like? Is he even in the country or is he in Europe? That picture can be anything.

This was my first thought too.

Do professional players actually take their team equipment home? Jerseys? Pants? Seems like most of that would just "stay at the office"

Word was he was skating today. He reportedly lives near the practice facility in Cranberry. Probably took stuff home from the rink, and if he skated, was probably drying it out.

[ville5]

It's very possible that this single photo is taken out of context. If the guy were pissed and threw that stuff in the driveway, it's awful tidy to me. Shoes sat perfectly side-by-side next to the rest of the gear. I can 100% see him being upset, but I don't know I buy this.

It’s also very possible the photo was taken in front of a random house years ago and the gear is waiting to be picked up. Does anyone know where Hornqvist lives and what his home looks like? Is he even in the country or is he in Europe? That picture can be anything.

:thumb: This was my first thought too.

Do professional players actually take their team equipment home? Jerseys? Pants? Seems like most of that would just "stay at the office"

I would be willing to bet they get new unis every season.

[murphydump55]

It's very possible that this single photo is taken out of context. If the guy were pissed and threw that stuff in the driveway, it's awful tidy to me. Shoes sat perfectly side-by-side next to the rest of the gear. I can 100% see him being upset, but I don't know I buy this.

It’s also very possible the photo was taken in front of a random house years ago and the gear is waiting to be picked up. Does anyone know where Hornqvist lives and what his home looks like? Is he even in the country or is he in Europe? That picture can be anything.

:thumb: This was my first thought too.

Do professional players actually take their team equipment home? Jerseys? Pants? Seems like most of that would just "stay at the office"

Yes. Many do. I’ve gone to watch some summer skates here and many of the pros are wearing their pants, gloves, and helmets. In fact, almost all were.

There’s a video here showing the Staals wearing their NHL equipment.
https://corehockey.com/https//corehockey.com/