Pens to buy out JMFJ!

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Pens to buy out JMFJ!

Postby KG on Mon Oct 05, 2020 12:17 pm

Frank Seravalli
@frank_seravalli
·
1m
Hearing #pens plan to buyout D Jack Johnson today.



Elliotte Friedman
@FriedgeHNIC
·
27s
Jack Johnson on waivers for purposes of buyout

Also reported on NHL radio.

Here we go!
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Re: Pens to buy out JMFJ!

Postby KG on Mon Oct 05, 2020 12:26 pm

Funny how none of the hundred Pittsburgh "insiders" broke this...
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Re: Pens to buy out JMFJ!

Postby joeyg412 on Mon Oct 05, 2020 12:29 pm

You mean to tell me Bud Moonshine didn't know first?
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Re: Pens to buy out JMFJ!

Postby LimerickPensFan on Mon Oct 05, 2020 12:31 pm

https://www.nhl.com/penguins/news/penguins-extend-qualifying-offer-to-five-players/c-319300958?partnerId=pit-fb-penguins&fbclid=IwAR0kBQ6OiBARD4tI5T77y0z8ro9AzfJtXCtt3zyAaPiG3JlDXkAlqjDb3XM

Simon also not extended a qualifying offer. According to Molinari, he didn't feel Simon would get one because the Pens were afraid of what he might get awarded in arbitration.
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Re: Pens to buy out JMFJ!

Postby ville5 on Mon Oct 05, 2020 12:46 pm

LimerickPensFan wrote:https://www.nhl.com/penguins/news/penguins-extend-qualifying-offer-to-five-players/c-319300958?partnerId=pit-fb-penguins&fbclid=IwAR0kBQ6OiBARD4tI5T77y0z8ro9AzfJtXCtt3zyAaPiG3JlDXkAlqjDb3XM

Simon also not extended a qualifying offer. According to Molinari, he didn't feel Simon would get one because the Pens were afraid of what he might get awarded in arbitration.

I fully expect Simon to be brought back at a lower figure than his QO.
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Re: Pens to buy out JMFJ!

Postby scpensfan on Mon Oct 05, 2020 12:51 pm

It's almost like literally EVERYONE was right about JJ. Except the one person whose opinion mattered.
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Re: Pens to buy out JMFJ!

Postby Cim2217 on Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:03 pm

How much cap space does this give us for free agency?
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Re: Pens to buy out JMFJ!

Postby Antonio on Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:03 pm

Finally they admit what a colossal failure that idiotic idea was.
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Re: Pens to buy out JMFJ!

Postby Pruezy11881 on Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:15 pm

Petterrson/Riikola third pairing?
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Re: Pens to buy out JMFJ!

Postby KG on Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:23 pm

Cim2217 wrote:How much cap space does this give us for free agency?


$4.7mill. $5.7mill if you put ZAR on the LTIR...
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Re: Pens to buy out JMFJ!

Postby Jim on Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:43 pm

scpensfan wrote:It's almost like literally EVERYONE was right about JJ. Except the one person whose opinion mattered.


Two, unless the one was me... because I would have put money on not buying him out.

I still stand that a buyout is bad. 6 years of $1M+ dead space.
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Re: Pens to buy out JMFJ!

Postby Jim on Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:00 pm

Cap hits of bury vs buyout:

Burying him:
20/21: 2.175
21/22: 2.125
22/23: 2.125

Buyout:
20/21: 1.167
21/22: 1.167
22/23: 1.917
23/24: 0.917
24/25: 0.917
25/26: 0.917

So basically:
20/21: Save 1.008
21/22: Save 0.958
22/23: Save 0.208
23/24: Cost 0.917
24/25: Cost 0.917
25/26: Cost 0.917

So save $1M cap the first two years, even, blow $1M cap the out three. 6 years of dead space vs 3 years.
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Re: Pens to buy out JMFJ!

Postby FLPensFan on Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:13 pm

Jim wrote:Cap hits of bury vs buyout:

Burying him:
20/21: 2.175
21/22: 2.125
22/23: 2.125

Buyout:
20/21: 1.167
21/22: 1.167
22/23: 1.917
23/24: 0.917
24/25: 0.917
25/26: 0.917

So basically:
20/21: Save 1.008
21/22: Save 0.958
22/23: Save 0.208
23/24: Cost 0.917
24/25: Cost 0.917
25/26: Cost 0.917

So save $1M cap the first two years, even, blow $1M cap the out three. 6 years of dead space vs 3 years.

Burying him was the better play....unless of course you had to retain 50% on another bad contract (Bjugstad), and decided to go all "Oooh, squirrel" when trading Patric Hornqvist and getting back a shiny, slightly damaged LD that may work out great but wasn't needed.

With those 2 moves, if GMJR wants to do anything else, burying wasn't going to help him as much as the buyout would.
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Re: Pens to buy out JMFJ!

Postby Daniel on Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:25 pm

Jim wrote:Cap hits of bury vs buyout:

Burying him:
20/21: 2.175
21/22: 2.125
22/23: 2.125

Buyout:
20/21: 1.167
21/22: 1.167
22/23: 1.917
23/24: 0.917
24/25: 0.917
25/26: 0.917

So basically:
20/21: Save 1.008
21/22: Save 0.958
22/23: who cares window is closed and JR is gone
23/24: who cares window is closed and JR is gone
24/25: who cares window is closed and JR is gone
25/26: who cares window is closed and JR is gone


So save $1M cap the first two years, even, blow $1M cap the out three. 6 years of dead space vs 3 years.


Fixed it for you. Sad thing is that ownership signed off on it and doesn't seem to have repercussions for JR.
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Re: Pens to buy out JMFJ!

Postby scpensfan on Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:29 pm

Jim wrote:
scpensfan wrote:It's almost like literally EVERYONE was right about JJ. Except the one person whose opinion mattered.


Two, unless the one was me... because I would have put money on not buying him out.

I still stand that a buyout is bad. 6 years of $1M+ dead space.


Sorry. Meant everyone being right about it being a TERRIBLE signing.
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Re: Pens to buy out JMFJ!

Postby Jim on Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:33 pm

Daniel wrote:
Jim wrote:22/23: who cares window is closed and JR is gone
23/24: who cares window is closed and JR is gone
24/25: who cares window is closed and JR is gone
25/26: who cares window is closed and JR is gone


So save $1M cap the first two years, even, blow $1M cap the out three. 6 years of dead space vs 3 years.


Fixed it for you. Sad thing is that ownership signed off on it and doesn't seem to have repercussions for JR.


It's not like the Pens will stop having a team when Crosby breaks down. Sure, maybe htere will not be a generational talent on a team friendly contract anymore... but they will still field a 23 man roster. If anything, they will need more cap space to counter the loss of that team friendly contract and the need to have an extra couple star players (not generational) to fill the gap, and those contracts are usually not as team friendly. Those out years are when the cap is needed.
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Re: Pens to buy out JMFJ!

Postby Dr Rosenrosen on Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:35 pm

Jim wrote:
scpensfan wrote:It's almost like literally EVERYONE was right about JJ. Except the one person whose opinion mattered.


Two, unless the one was me... because I would have put money on not buying him out.

I still stand that a buyout is bad. 6 years of $1M+ dead space.

In a vacuum, it sucks. Compared to average dead money for the league, meh.
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Re: Pens to buy out JMFJ!

Postby thehockeyguru on Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:46 pm

Jim wrote:Cap hits of bury vs buyout:

Burying him:
20/21: 2.175
21/22: 2.125
22/23: 2.125

Buyout:
20/21: 1.167
21/22: 1.167
22/23: 1.917
23/24: 0.917
24/25: 0.917
25/26: 0.917

So basically:
20/21: Save 1.008
21/22: Save 0.958
22/23: Save 0.208
23/24: Cost 0.917
24/25: Cost 0.917
25/26: Cost 0.917

So save $1M cap the first two years, even, blow $1M cap the out three. 6 years of dead space vs 3 years.


The only way this makes sense is if the window is 2-3 years and then start from scratch
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Re: Pens to buy out JMFJ!

Postby Puck-Lurker on Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:50 pm

JMFJ going away. Praise be.
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Re: Pens to buy out JMFJ!

Postby SubtropicalPenguin on Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:54 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
Jim wrote:Cap hits of bury vs buyout:

Burying him:
20/21: 2.175
21/22: 2.125
22/23: 2.125

Buyout:
20/21: 1.167
21/22: 1.167
22/23: 1.917
23/24: 0.917
24/25: 0.917
25/26: 0.917

So basically:
20/21: Save 1.008
21/22: Save 0.958
22/23: Save 0.208
23/24: Cost 0.917
24/25: Cost 0.917
25/26: Cost 0.917

So save $1M cap the first two years, even, blow $1M cap the out three. 6 years of dead space vs 3 years.


The only way this makes sense is if the window is 2-3 years and then start from scratch


DING DING DING. I think you hit the nail on the head. I still would have probably just buried him, but I suppose at least there is a logic involved here. Also, anything that saves the Pens from themselves is probably a good thing on this front. If the Pens would have kept him around, you just know they would have ended up with him on the ice again. At least this way, he's not an anchor on the other third pairing defenseman when he inevitably gets unearned playing time.
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Re: Pens to buy out JMFJ!

Postby KG on Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:57 pm

SubtropicalPenguin wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
Jim wrote:Cap hits of bury vs buyout:

Burying him:
20/21: 2.175
21/22: 2.125
22/23: 2.125

Buyout:
20/21: 1.167
21/22: 1.167
22/23: 1.917
23/24: 0.917
24/25: 0.917
25/26: 0.917

So basically:
20/21: Save 1.008
21/22: Save 0.958
22/23: Save 0.208
23/24: Cost 0.917
24/25: Cost 0.917
25/26: Cost 0.917

So save $1M cap the first two years, even, blow $1M cap the out three. 6 years of dead space vs 3 years.


The only way this makes sense is if the window is 2-3 years and then start from scratch


DING DING DING. I think you hit the nail on the head. I still would have probably just buried him, but I suppose at least there is a logic involved here. Also, anything that saves the Pens from themselves is probably a good thing on this front. If the Pens would have kept him around, you just know they would have ended up with him on the ice again. At least this way, he's not an anchor on the other third pairing defenseman when he inevitably gets unearned playing time.


There's probably the human side of this as well. The Pens probably wanted to give him an opportunity to latch on with another team, as opposed to being in WBS for the rest of his career. Pens pride themselves on "doing the right thing."
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Re: Pens to buy out JMFJ!

Postby SubtropicalPenguin on Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:07 pm

KG wrote:
SubtropicalPenguin wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
Jim wrote:Cap hits of bury vs buyout:

Burying him:
20/21: 2.175
21/22: 2.125
22/23: 2.125

Buyout:
20/21: 1.167
21/22: 1.167
22/23: 1.917
23/24: 0.917
24/25: 0.917
25/26: 0.917

So basically:
20/21: Save 1.008
21/22: Save 0.958
22/23: Save 0.208
23/24: Cost 0.917
24/25: Cost 0.917
25/26: Cost 0.917

So save $1M cap the first two years, even, blow $1M cap the out three. 6 years of dead space vs 3 years.


The only way this makes sense is if the window is 2-3 years and then start from scratch


DING DING DING. I think you hit the nail on the head. I still would have probably just buried him, but I suppose at least there is a logic involved here. Also, anything that saves the Pens from themselves is probably a good thing on this front. If the Pens would have kept him around, you just know they would have ended up with him on the ice again. At least this way, he's not an anchor on the other third pairing defenseman when he inevitably gets unearned playing time.


There's probably the human side of this as well. The Pens probably wanted to give him an opportunity to latch on with another team, as opposed to being in WBS for the rest of his career. Pens pride themselves on "doing the right thing."


Yes, you're probably right on that. By all accounts, JJ is a good guy, just not a very good hockey player. I hope his financial struggles are behind him, and he catches on somewhere else. Any teams in the metro looking for a low-priced anchor?
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Re: Pens to buy out JMFJ!

Postby murphydump55 on Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:08 pm

So GMJR ridded the team of:

Hornqvist - 5.3
Bjugstad - 4.1
Johnson - 3.25

12.65 total. But only gained 3.35 in cap space.

He’s chasing his tail again, cleaning up his own messes.
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Re: Pens to buy out JMFJ!

Postby thehockeyguru on Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:17 pm

murphydump55 wrote:So GMJR ridded the team of:

Hornqvist - 5.3
Bjugstad - 4.1
Johnson - 3.25

12.65 total. But only gained 3.35 in cap space.

He’s chasing his tail again, cleaning up his own messes.


I totally agree and I think it's finally caught up to him. Roughly 3.1M in retained or dead salary goes a long way in filling out the roster.
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Re: Pens to buy out JMFJ!

Postby pens_CT on Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:25 pm

murphydump55 wrote:So GMJR ridded the team of:

Hornqvist - 5.3
Bjugstad - 4.1
Johnson - 3.25

12.65 total. But only gained 3.35 in cap space.

He’s chasing his tail again, cleaning up his own messes.


I think there's a lot of GMs out there that would rather have Rutherford's mess than their own. It's all a matter of perspective.
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