Karmanos relieved of duties

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Karmanos relieved of duties

Postby LimerickPensFan on Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:23 pm

The Pittsburgh Penguins have relieved Assistant General Manager Jason Karmanos of his duties.
GM Jim Rutherford: “We would like to thank Jason Karmanos for his contributions to the organization over the past six years. I have been evaluating our hockey operations department, and this is the first part of the process to re-organize our group.”
During this interim period, Director of Hockey Research, Sam Ventura, will assume Karmanos’ duties and Erik Heasley, Manager of Hockey Operations, has been named Interim General Manager of the Wilkes-Barre/Scranton Penguins.
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Re: Karmanos relieved of duties

Postby KG on Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:25 pm

Interesting timing...Botteril part deux??
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Re: Karmanos relieved of duties

Postby penny lane on Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:27 pm

KG wrote:Interesting timing...Botteril part deux??


Would Botteril ask for a date or a first in for pens GM when GMJR retires?
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Re: Karmanos relieved of duties

Postby Jim on Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:50 pm

That's what I want... the guy that only lasted 3 years as Buffalo GM...
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Re: Karmanos relieved of duties

Postby Penguins Knight on Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:38 am

I would not be surprised if Botterill returns.
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Re: Karmanos relieved of duties

Postby FLPensFan on Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:22 am

According to Rossi, Penguins aren't looking to bring back Botteril. Says they are looking to bring Dale Tallon on in some capacity. Rossi is not the first person to mention Tallon to the Penguins. Apparently he and Rutherford are good friends. I think a lot of people cooled on Tallon after he was fired, when the NHL reportedly began to investigate him for making racial comments in the Toronto bubble.

https://floridahockeynow.com/exclusive-dale-tallon-says-he-never-used-racist-language/
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Re: Karmanos relieved of duties

Postby FLPensFan on Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:36 am

Molinari touched on the Karmanos firing yesterday. Nothing really shocking, and more....no real information.
Molinari asked Rutherford if he would expand on why Karmanos was fired, and was given a short No by GMJR.
Molinari asked if there was "anything nefarious" behind the firing, to which GMJR also replied No.
Karmanos replied to Molinari via text message that he did not wish to comment, but seemed to be blindsided by the move.

The same article says that GMJR has been eyeing Trevor Daley for a front office role for years. GMJR reportedly, quietly told a few people when Daley left the Penguins after their Cup runs "I'm going to try and hire him into management some day." Article says GMJR has kept in touch with his agent, and his told his agent a few times, remember what I said about Trevor. When he heard news that Detroit wasn't going to re-sign Daley, GMJR reached out again, and told the agent if Trevor decided he is not going to play this year, the Penguins have a spot for him on the management side.
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Re: Karmanos relieved of duties

Postby longtimefan on Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:02 am

FLPensFan wrote:Molinari touched on the Karmanos firing yesterday. Nothing really shocking, and more....no real information.
Molinari asked Rutherford if he would expand on why Karmanos was fired, and was given a short No by GMJR.
Molinari asked if there was "anything nefarious" behind the firing, to which GMJR also replied No.
Karmanos replied to Molinari via text message that he did not wish to comment, but seemed to be blindsided by the move.

The same article says that GMJR has been eyeing Trevor Daley for a front office role for years. GMJR reportedly, quietly told a few people when Daley left the Penguins after their Cup runs "I'm going to try and hire him into management some day." Article says GMJR has kept in touch with his agent, and his told his agent a few times, remember what I said about Trevor. When he heard news that Detroit wasn't going to re-sign Daley, GMJR reached out again, and told the agent if Trevor decided he is not going to play this year, the Penguins have a spot for him on the management side.


The timing of the Karmanos move is the puzzling part. Especially after being given additional duties just over a month ago. I wonder if we'll ever know. Both parties seem to be dug in not to shed any light. I don't know what his contract situation was as far as the budget is concerned. But if the plans have been in process for a while, why expand his duties? His reputation was analytics, and I could see them wanting to expand Ventura's role, but you'd think they would have already had that in mind.

I've read the same thing several places about JR's interest in Daley. His title is that of an advisor, but reads very much like an asst GM/asst coach hybrid. An eye in the sky for the coaching staff and assisting on player analysis at both the AHL and NHL level who report directly to JR.

It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.
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Re: Karmanos relieved of duties

Postby Jim on Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:13 pm

I do not understand why people keep saying that the timing is strange. It is very, very, possible that he was given additional responsibilities and once he started to perform those responsibilities it was either realized that they all had different direction in mind and would work, or it was realized that he was not going to be able to perform those new additional duties to the level that people thought that he would. While not expected, it's not really a surprising twist at all.
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Re: Karmanos relieved of duties

Postby FLPensFan on Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:20 pm

Jim wrote:I do not understand why people keep saying that the timing is strange. It is very, very, possible that he was given additional responsibilities and once he started to perform those responsibilities it was either realized that they all had different direction in mind and would work, or it was realized that he was not going to be able to perform those new additional duties to the level that people thought that he would. While not expected, it's not really a surprising twist at all.

Probably because...the timing is strange. He has been in the position barely a month. There hasn't been a whole lot to do in that month. Yes, free agency started, but, I find it hard to believe that, Rutherford has worked with this guy for over 10 years, and suddenly in a month's time he did something they didn't like to get himself fired.

If anything, I would guess it might be more payroll related. I'm sure being in the hockey management world for a good amount of time, Karmanos doesn't exactly have a cheap salary. He's probably not a million dollar GM or position, but maybe he's a 400-500K guy, and the team can hire a younger up and coming guy for maybe 150-200K and save some money.
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Re: Karmanos relieved of duties

Postby Defence21 on Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:11 am

FLPensFan wrote:
Jim wrote:I do not understand why people keep saying that the timing is strange. It is very, very, possible that he was given additional responsibilities and once he started to perform those responsibilities it was either realized that they all had different direction in mind and would work, or it was realized that he was not going to be able to perform those new additional duties to the level that people thought that he would. While not expected, it's not really a surprising twist at all.

Probably because...the timing is strange. He has been in the position barely a month. There hasn't been a whole lot to do in that month. Yes, free agency started, but, I find it hard to believe that, Rutherford has worked with this guy for over 10 years, and suddenly in a month's time he did something they didn't like to get himself fired.

If anything, I would guess it might be more payroll related. I'm sure being in the hockey management world for a good amount of time, Karmanos doesn't exactly have a cheap salary. He's probably not a million dollar GM or position, but maybe he's a 400-500K guy, and the team can hire a younger up and coming guy for maybe 150-200K and save some money.

Yeah, I have to agree. Something seems off here.
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Re: Karmanos relieved of duties

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:22 pm

FLPensFan wrote:According to Rossi, Penguins aren't looking to bring back Botteril. Says they are looking to bring Dale Tallon on in some capacity. Rossi is not the first person to mention Tallon to the Penguins. Apparently he and Rutherford are good friends. I think a lot of people cooled on Tallon after he was fired, when the NHL reportedly began to investigate him for making racial comments in the Toronto bubble.

https://floridahockeynow.com/exclusive-dale-tallon-says-he-never-used-racist-language/

Tallon official cleared today. No evidence found to confirm the allegations against him. The fact that this has come out today leads me to believe the rumors that the Penguins are going to hire him. I don't see it as coincidence that there are rumors of him being hired and the investigation being complete.

https://media.nhl.com/public/news/14483
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Re: Karmanos relieved of duties

Postby FLPensFan on Wed Nov 04, 2020 2:51 pm

Penguins promote Patrik Allvin to assistant GM. Allvin has been director of amateur scouting for past several years, and he will continue to oversee amateur scouting in his new role.

According to Kingerski (several days ago), there are multiple teams that are interested in bringing Dale Tallon on board, which is why we haven't heard any more on him to the Penguins. More than just the Penguins interested, reportedly.
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Re: Karmanos relieved of duties

Postby FLPensFan on Wed Nov 04, 2020 3:14 pm

Also, Pens say Sam Ventura “will assume the role of director of hockey operations and hockey research, working closely with Allvin on the salary cap, CBA and the overall hockey operations’ budget. Erik Heasley will continue his role as manager of hockey ops and assistant GM for WBS.
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Re: Karmanos relieved of duties

Postby longtimefan on Thu Nov 05, 2020 7:38 am

https://triblive.com/sports/penguins-pr ... l-manager/

Based on JR's comments, all the talk about Tallon was for naught. He say's he's done.

The assistant general manager position was opened up Oct. 26 when Jason Karmanos, a longtime lieutenant to Rutherford dating to their time with the Carolina Hurricanes franchise, was fired. Rutherford indicated he had been contemplating changes to the front office, including Allvin’s role, for some time.

“I’ve had Patrik in mind for about a year trying to figure out what’s the right place for him and how he continues to advance in the organization, which he’s earned. He’s the guy that I had in mind.”

Along with Allvin’s promotion, Sam Ventura, previously the director of hockey research will also assume the title of director of hockey operations. He served as interim assistant general manager between Karmano’s dismissal and Allvin’s promotion.

Ventura, who has been involved in the Penguins’ usage of on-ice analytics in various capacities since 2015, will assist Allvin with financial aspects including salary cap management, the minutia of the NHL’s complicated collective bargaining agreement with the players association and budgets for the hockey operations department.

Erik Heasley will continue on as manager of hockey operations and assistant general manager of the franchise’s American Hockey League affiliate in Wilkes-Barre/Scranton.

“Sam Ventura and Erik Heasley, they take on more duties being responsible for the (salary) cap and budget and contracts and things like that, which they’ve been involved with, but it wasn’t ultimately their responsibility,” Rutherford said. “So more responsibility for them. I like how this has played out.”


Allvin will continue to oversee the organization’s amateur scouting for the remainder of the 2020-21 season. Several leagues in Europe as well as the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League have already opened play while the NHL and several other leagues in North America remain on hiatus on due to the coronavirus pandemic.

It appears the Penguins will fill that position after the 2020-21 campaign is completed.

“I’ve got to finish that this year,” Allvin said. “It’s a unique year, and we’ll go make sure to do the best. I’m completely confident that our scouting staff is on top of things. They will be open-minded and flexible here moving forward. We’ll see here once we get going here. Obviously, this is new. We will sit down as a staff and make sure we have structure in place. We’ll have communication and make sure we have a plan.”


Following Karmanos’ dismissal, Heasley was named as interim general manager of Wilkes-Barre/Scranton before being reinstalled as assistant general manager on Wednesday. According to Rutherford, Heasley will continue to oversee the operations of that franchise, which will not open play until Feb. 5 at the earliest.

“We won’t name a general manager in Wilkes-Barre,” Rutherford said. “We don’t feel at this point in time that we need it. Erik Heasley will do most of those duties. For all intents and purposes, Erik will be the interim general manager there until something changes. But we’re not going to name anybody there in the near future.”

With the NHL not slated to open until Jan. 1 at the earliest — and there is every reason to suspect that target is optimistic, at best — Rutherford suggested he is done making changes to his front office and coaching staffs, which have undergone a significant facelift over the past three months.

“For what we’re doing now — anything that we’re doing now — we’re set,” Rutherford said.
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Re: Karmanos relieved of duties

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Nov 05, 2020 11:49 am

longtimefan wrote:https://triblive.com/sports/penguins-promote-patrik-allvin-to-assistant-general-manager/

Based on JR's comments, all the talk about Tallon was for naught. He say's he's done.

The assistant general manager position was opened up Oct. 26 when Jason Karmanos, a longtime lieutenant to Rutherford dating to their time with the Carolina Hurricanes franchise, was fired. Rutherford indicated he had been contemplating changes to the front office, including Allvin’s role, for some time.

“I’ve had Patrik in mind for about a year trying to figure out what’s the right place for him and how he continues to advance in the organization, which he’s earned. He’s the guy that I had in mind.”

Along with Allvin’s promotion, Sam Ventura, previously the director of hockey research will also assume the title of director of hockey operations. He served as interim assistant general manager between Karmano’s dismissal and Allvin’s promotion.

Ventura, who has been involved in the Penguins’ usage of on-ice analytics in various capacities since 2015, will assist Allvin with financial aspects including salary cap management, the minutia of the NHL’s complicated collective bargaining agreement with the players association and budgets for the hockey operations department.

Erik Heasley will continue on as manager of hockey operations and assistant general manager of the franchise’s American Hockey League affiliate in Wilkes-Barre/Scranton.

“Sam Ventura and Erik Heasley, they take on more duties being responsible for the (salary) cap and budget and contracts and things like that, which they’ve been involved with, but it wasn’t ultimately their responsibility,” Rutherford said. “So more responsibility for them. I like how this has played out.”


Allvin will continue to oversee the organization’s amateur scouting for the remainder of the 2020-21 season. Several leagues in Europe as well as the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League have already opened play while the NHL and several other leagues in North America remain on hiatus on due to the coronavirus pandemic.

It appears the Penguins will fill that position after the 2020-21 campaign is completed.

“I’ve got to finish that this year,” Allvin said. “It’s a unique year, and we’ll go make sure to do the best. I’m completely confident that our scouting staff is on top of things. They will be open-minded and flexible here moving forward. We’ll see here once we get going here. Obviously, this is new. We will sit down as a staff and make sure we have structure in place. We’ll have communication and make sure we have a plan.”


Following Karmanos’ dismissal, Heasley was named as interim general manager of Wilkes-Barre/Scranton before being reinstalled as assistant general manager on Wednesday. According to Rutherford, Heasley will continue to oversee the operations of that franchise, which will not open play until Feb. 5 at the earliest.

“We won’t name a general manager in Wilkes-Barre,” Rutherford said. “We don’t feel at this point in time that we need it. Erik Heasley will do most of those duties. For all intents and purposes, Erik will be the interim general manager there until something changes. But we’re not going to name anybody there in the near future.”

With the NHL not slated to open until Jan. 1 at the earliest — and there is every reason to suspect that target is optimistic, at best — Rutherford suggested he is done making changes to his front office and coaching staffs, which have undergone a significant facelift over the past three months.

“For what we’re doing now — anything that we’re doing now — we’re set,” Rutherford said.

If there was any actual interest in Tallon, I'm thinking the cost was too high (a long-time GM moving to asst. GM or Hockey Ops isn't going to be cheap as promoting several guys as 1st timers), or the fact that other teams are also reportedly interested in Tallon, and GMJR didn't want to wait any longer.
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Re: Karmanos relieved of duties

Postby longtimefan on Thu Nov 05, 2020 12:27 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
longtimefan wrote:https://triblive.com/sports/penguins-promote-patrik-allvin-to-assistant-general-manager/

Based on JR's comments, all the talk about Tallon was for naught. He say's he's done.

The assistant general manager position was opened up Oct. 26 when Jason Karmanos, a longtime lieutenant to Rutherford dating to their time with the Carolina Hurricanes franchise, was fired. Rutherford indicated he had been contemplating changes to the front office, including Allvin’s role, for some time.

“I’ve had Patrik in mind for about a year trying to figure out what’s the right place for him and how he continues to advance in the organization, which he’s earned. He’s the guy that I had in mind.”

Along with Allvin’s promotion, Sam Ventura, previously the director of hockey research will also assume the title of director of hockey operations. He served as interim assistant general manager between Karmano’s dismissal and Allvin’s promotion.

Ventura, who has been involved in the Penguins’ usage of on-ice analytics in various capacities since 2015, will assist Allvin with financial aspects including salary cap management, the minutia of the NHL’s complicated collective bargaining agreement with the players association and budgets for the hockey operations department.

Erik Heasley will continue on as manager of hockey operations and assistant general manager of the franchise’s American Hockey League affiliate in Wilkes-Barre/Scranton.

“Sam Ventura and Erik Heasley, they take on more duties being responsible for the (salary) cap and budget and contracts and things like that, which they’ve been involved with, but it wasn’t ultimately their responsibility,” Rutherford said. “So more responsibility for them. I like how this has played out.”


Allvin will continue to oversee the organization’s amateur scouting for the remainder of the 2020-21 season. Several leagues in Europe as well as the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League have already opened play while the NHL and several other leagues in North America remain on hiatus on due to the coronavirus pandemic.

It appears the Penguins will fill that position after the 2020-21 campaign is completed.

“I’ve got to finish that this year,” Allvin said. “It’s a unique year, and we’ll go make sure to do the best. I’m completely confident that our scouting staff is on top of things. They will be open-minded and flexible here moving forward. We’ll see here once we get going here. Obviously, this is new. We will sit down as a staff and make sure we have structure in place. We’ll have communication and make sure we have a plan.”


Following Karmanos’ dismissal, Heasley was named as interim general manager of Wilkes-Barre/Scranton before being reinstalled as assistant general manager on Wednesday. According to Rutherford, Heasley will continue to oversee the operations of that franchise, which will not open play until Feb. 5 at the earliest.

“We won’t name a general manager in Wilkes-Barre,” Rutherford said. “We don’t feel at this point in time that we need it. Erik Heasley will do most of those duties. For all intents and purposes, Erik will be the interim general manager there until something changes. But we’re not going to name anybody there in the near future.”

With the NHL not slated to open until Jan. 1 at the earliest — and there is every reason to suspect that target is optimistic, at best — Rutherford suggested he is done making changes to his front office and coaching staffs, which have undergone a significant facelift over the past three months.

“For what we’re doing now — anything that we’re doing now — we’re set,” Rutherford said.

If there was any actual interest in Tallon, I'm thinking the cost was too high (a long-time GM moving to asst. GM or Hockey Ops isn't going to be cheap as promoting several guys as 1st timers), or the fact that other teams are also reportedly interested in Tallon, and GMJR didn't want to wait any longer.


I tend to agree that other team's having interest may have cooled any interest the Pens may have had. I never expected him to be hired as an asst GM because of his stature. I more expected an advisory role. But I don't think the Pens had any interest in getting into a bidding war. I don't think it had any bearing on what they've done though. JR said Allvin was the person he had in mind all along. Even though he says he's done, I wouldn't be surprised if they circled back to Tallon if someone else doesn't grab him. But strictly in an advisory role.
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Re: Karmanos relieved of duties

Postby Daniel on Thu Nov 05, 2020 2:32 pm

longtimefan wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
longtimefan wrote:https://triblive.com/sports/penguins-promote-patrik-allvin-to-assistant-general-manager/

Based on JR's comments, all the talk about Tallon was for naught. He say's he's done.

The assistant general manager position was opened up Oct. 26 when Jason Karmanos, a longtime lieutenant to Rutherford dating to their time with the Carolina Hurricanes franchise, was fired. Rutherford indicated he had been contemplating changes to the front office, including Allvin’s role, for some time.

“I’ve had Patrik in mind for about a year trying to figure out what’s the right place for him and how he continues to advance in the organization, which he’s earned. He’s the guy that I had in mind.”

Along with Allvin’s promotion, Sam Ventura, previously the director of hockey research will also assume the title of director of hockey operations. He served as interim assistant general manager between Karmano’s dismissal and Allvin’s promotion.

Ventura, who has been involved in the Penguins’ usage of on-ice analytics in various capacities since 2015, will assist Allvin with financial aspects including salary cap management, the minutia of the NHL’s complicated collective bargaining agreement with the players association and budgets for the hockey operations department.

Erik Heasley will continue on as manager of hockey operations and assistant general manager of the franchise’s American Hockey League affiliate in Wilkes-Barre/Scranton.

“Sam Ventura and Erik Heasley, they take on more duties being responsible for the (salary) cap and budget and contracts and things like that, which they’ve been involved with, but it wasn’t ultimately their responsibility,” Rutherford said. “So more responsibility for them. I like how this has played out.”


Allvin will continue to oversee the organization’s amateur scouting for the remainder of the 2020-21 season. Several leagues in Europe as well as the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League have already opened play while the NHL and several other leagues in North America remain on hiatus on due to the coronavirus pandemic.

It appears the Penguins will fill that position after the 2020-21 campaign is completed.

“I’ve got to finish that this year,” Allvin said. “It’s a unique year, and we’ll go make sure to do the best. I’m completely confident that our scouting staff is on top of things. They will be open-minded and flexible here moving forward. We’ll see here once we get going here. Obviously, this is new. We will sit down as a staff and make sure we have structure in place. We’ll have communication and make sure we have a plan.”


Following Karmanos’ dismissal, Heasley was named as interim general manager of Wilkes-Barre/Scranton before being reinstalled as assistant general manager on Wednesday. According to Rutherford, Heasley will continue to oversee the operations of that franchise, which will not open play until Feb. 5 at the earliest.

“We won’t name a general manager in Wilkes-Barre,” Rutherford said. “We don’t feel at this point in time that we need it. Erik Heasley will do most of those duties. For all intents and purposes, Erik will be the interim general manager there until something changes. But we’re not going to name anybody there in the near future.”

With the NHL not slated to open until Jan. 1 at the earliest — and there is every reason to suspect that target is optimistic, at best — Rutherford suggested he is done making changes to his front office and coaching staffs, which have undergone a significant facelift over the past three months.

“For what we’re doing now — anything that we’re doing now — we’re set,” Rutherford said.

If there was any actual interest in Tallon, I'm thinking the cost was too high (a long-time GM moving to asst. GM or Hockey Ops isn't going to be cheap as promoting several guys as 1st timers), or the fact that other teams are also reportedly interested in Tallon, and GMJR didn't want to wait any longer.


I tend to agree that other team's having interest may have cooled any interest the Pens may have had. I never expected him to be hired as an asst GM because of his stature. I more expected an advisory role. But I don't think the Pens had any interest in getting into a bidding war. I don't think it had any bearing on what they've done though. JR said Allvin was the person he had in mind all along. Even though he says he's done, I wouldn't be surprised if they circled back to Tallon if someone else doesn't grab him. But strictly in an advisory role.


I would imagine the conversation was "if you don't find something we'd love you in an advisory role". I think it's as simple as that and if Tallon does come on it'd be right before training camp.
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Re: Karmanos relieved of duties

Postby Penspal on Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:09 pm

Still nothing on the Karmanos firing... weird.
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Re: Karmanos relieved of duties

Postby Steve Dave on Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:36 pm

Penspal wrote:Still nothing on the Karmanos firing... weird.

I heard he banged Rutherford’s wife.
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Re: Karmanos relieved of duties

Postby dark_forces on Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:26 pm

Steve Dave wrote:
Penspal wrote:Still nothing on the Karmanos firing... weird.

I heard he banged Rutherford’s wife.

I laughed out loud at that! Thanks, I needed that.
It sounds like the beginning of a Netflix series. A career assistant GM who thinks he can under perform, barely show up for work. In essence, he believes his job is safe no matter what, and goes on to bang his boss's wife and gets canned. It's the story of what happens to him after the firing.
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Re: Karmanos relieved of duties

Postby Jim on Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:27 pm

Yeah, I thought that the timing was all blah blah blah...?
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