2021 Season discussion (start date, # of games, etc)

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Re: 2021 Season discussion (start date, # of games, etc)

Postby no name on Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:59 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
Cow_Master66 wrote:I also saw some teams, including Pittsburgh, are evaluating playing outdoor this year to allow for some attendees.

I posted that a few weeks ago and was curious why it wasn’t on the table.

Cost.

I saw somewhere (like a TSN or Sportsnet level, not a random blod) that, even if you take out the initial building and setup cost, the cost of maintaining an outdoor ice rink could approach $1M a day....that's just not feasible. It's just too expensive to keep the ice at an acceptable level.

The best scenario that I could see would be divisional bubbles, say, 2 per division. Each bubble city could host 2-3 games per day, and you have series like baseball, where, for example, the Pens and Flyers play a 3 game series. The bubbles would not be strict to where teams could not come and go, but, having series and only two rinks to play plus team practice facilities in their home locations, you still limit the amount of travel that is going on.



If you had hub cities you could have 11 games per week that would generate better TV viewership. Say a evening game Monday- Friday and a 12, 4 and 8 pm games on the Sat and Sun. If need be the rest of the games could be a 4pm start. This would just be for a modified central if that is were we are.
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Re: 2021 Season discussion (start date, # of games, etc)

Postby FLPensFan on Mon Dec 07, 2020 4:54 pm

Saw something a few moments ago about the NBA giving each of its teams 30M to help protect their finances ahead of the 20-21 season. Reporter from ESPN says she is hearing the NHL is working on something similar for its clubs.

No idea how things work finance-wise league wide, but, if they aren't doing so already, maybe the NHL needs to keep a permanent "war chest" stocked by the NHL. They used to do this to help them protect against lockouts. Maybe now they realize there are other things that should make the league have a "rainy day" fund available, instead of scrambling for funds, salary cuts, salary deferrals, and escrow.
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Re: 2021 Season discussion (start date, # of games, etc)

Postby Pensfan4life8771 on Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:46 am

FLPens - I heard that with season slated to start around Jan 12 timeframe would mean no exhibition games. Is this a good idea?

Just from what has happened in NFL with sooo many injuries this year.
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Re: 2021 Season discussion (start date, # of games, etc)

Postby Cow_Master66 on Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:55 pm

no name wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
Cow_Master66 wrote:I also saw some teams, including Pittsburgh, are evaluating playing outdoor this year to allow for some attendees.

I posted that a few weeks ago and was curious why it wasn’t on the table.

Cost.

I saw somewhere (like a TSN or Sportsnet level, not a random blod) that, even if you take out the initial building and setup cost, the cost of maintaining an outdoor ice rink could approach $1M a day....that's just not feasible. It's just too expensive to keep the ice at an acceptable level.

The best scenario that I could see would be divisional bubbles, say, 2 per division. Each bubble city could host 2-3 games per day, and you have series like baseball, where, for example, the Pens and Flyers play a 3 game series. The bubbles would not be strict to where teams could not come and go, but, having series and only two rinks to play plus team practice facilities in their home locations, you still limit the amount of travel that is going on.



If you had hub cities you could have 11 games per week that would generate better TV viewership. Say a evening game Monday- Friday and a 12, 4 and 8 pm games on the Sat and Sun. If need be the rest of the games could be a 4pm start. This would just be for a modified central if that is were we are.


The union isn't going to agree on spending 4-5 days away from their families every week.
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Re: 2021 Season discussion (start date, # of games, etc)

Postby no name on Tue Dec 08, 2020 2:13 pm

If they go with 4 hub cities what would the timing of the games be like? You figure you can play m-f 1 game each night, then Sat and Sunday, a 12 4 8 game that is 11 games per week in viewing hours. That would be 2 or 3 games a week per team. I don't want our games to be on in the afternoon during the work week. One after noon game during m-f would allow 3 games a week per team. that seems like it could work most teams would be doing a double header on the weekends. But i get the feeling the NHL just wants to play and get this season done with and with the teams not traveling in hubs you can play every other night. this plays out only in 1 division like our Central if that is where we are.
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Re: 2021 Season discussion (start date, # of games, etc)

Postby longtimefan on Wed Dec 09, 2020 5:10 am

https://theathletic.com/2246641/2020/12 ... -13-start/

The financial stalemate that threatened to derail the shortened 2020-21 season is now dealt with, sources on both sides confirm.

“We are moving forward with the process of working through all of the issues that need to be addressed and agreed to, and that are obviously unique to playing a season during a pandemic,” NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly told The Athletic.


The NHL Players’ Association finally did get back to the NHL over the weekend regarding its financial asks, as my TSN pal Darren Dreger first reported Monday night. But when the NHLPA made some CBA asks in return, the league said “thanks but no thanks,” as one source put it to me. You can’t fault the players for wanting something in return for potentially tweaking a document they signed five months ago.

Both sides confirm the financial terms from the Memorandum of Understanding, signed in June as part of the CBA extension, will stand as is.


And then, and this is key, once both sides finalize a season package, both sides will have to bring it to their respective constituents for clearance. The NHL’s Board of Governors and the NHLPA’s Executive Board will have to sign off on the plans. And because there will be temporary changes to the divisions this year, re-alignment generally requires two-thirds Board of Governors approval. So that’s what will likely be needed when the Board votes. There’s a Board of Governors meeting on Wednesday at 4 p.m. ET.

How many owners will be angry enough about not getting more financial concessions that they want to vote “no” on the season? You wouldn’t think enough to derail a season, but there are certainly some owners who aren’t happy with this turn of events. They felt they needed more salary deferral from the players to get through this year.


There’s still some ground to cover and time is of the essence to get ready for a Jan. 13 puck drop.
Of course, the rising COVID cases around North America could still throw a wrench in these plans, it’s always important to note. The season start could still be delayed because of it.

For now, the aim is a Jan. 13 and a 56-game season.


• Roster sizes: Obviously the NHL can’t have a season during the pandemic with normal-sized rosters. Sources said Tuesday the NHL has proposed a framework to the NHLPA dealing with rosters but the two sides have yet to iron that out.

• Schedule flexibility: With the NFL in mind, as Scott Burnside suggested in his piece last weekend, the NHL needs some flexibility and extra days in the schedule in case of COVID-related game postponements. But as one source pointed out Tuesday, the NHL and NHLPA also wanted to maximize the number of games. So you’ve got conflicting objectives that need to be balanced there. But either way, there will be extra days in place in the shortened schedule.


• Will the players, like RTP last summer, have an opt-out option if they feel unsafe to play during the ongoing pandemic? It’s still being discussed, sources said Tuesday, but yes it’s expected individual players will be able to opt-out.


So the financial issues are behind them. Tow questions I have. How is the cap going to be reconciled with increased roster size? How many players are going to opt out of the season? Although roster sizes are much larger in the NFL, the Steelers were one of only three teams without a playing opting out. The Patriots had 8.
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Re: 2021 Season discussion (start date, # of games, etc)

Postby Cow_Master66 on Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:44 am

I still think odds are against rhem having a season but curious to see how many opt out. I would suspect a pretty high number of established players will do so. Why wouldn’t you? You are deferring salary, why not just delay playing?
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Re: 2021 Season discussion (start date, # of games, etc)

Postby FLPensFan on Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:49 am

Cow_Master66 wrote:I still think odds are against rhem having a season but curious to see how many opt out. I would suspect a pretty high number of established players will do so. Why wouldn’t you? You are deferring salary, why not just delay playing?

I'm not sure if a lot will or not. I think more olders players may opt out.....guys with younger kids, guys with pregnant wives, maybe players with older families members in poor health. If I had to take a random guess, I would say under 50 players will opt out.

As to why to not opt out:

1) No play, no pay. You might be getting a bigger chunk taken and salary deferred, but you are still getting paid. You opt out, you're on your own to find a salary somewhere.
2) Contract status. Again, no play, then I would assume the player would not burn a year off their current contract if they voluntarily elected not to play, versus a LTIR situation where a player medically cannot play.
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Re: 2021 Season discussion (start date, # of games, etc)

Postby FLPensFan on Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:10 am

Here's some more new information from Frank Seravalli last night (with my comments in parenthesis)

--Says the NHL and NHLPA are talking about expanding rosters from 23 to 26, plus a 4 man taxi squad. The 4 man taxi squad reportedly would only earn an AHL salary, but NHL benefits and per diem. (I think this is a VERY GOOD idea with the condensed schedule and probable lack of exhibition games. Not sure how the 3 additional players on the roster would work out, though. If those 3 extra players count against the cap, that's going to be a problem. As the cap sits today, there are 10 teams over the cap, and 4 of those 10 teams don't even have a full 23 man roster. How's that going to work for them? NHL minimum salary is 700K, meaning adding 3 minimum level players is 2.1M. Besides the 10 teams I mentioned, another 6 teams don't have 2.1M in extra cap space to fit 3 more players. And that doesn't account for adding guys like Poulin, O'Connor, or POJ, who's salaries are high 800K or 925K range)

--Calgary, Edmonton, and Vancouver all have AHL affiliates in the United States, and don't have any plans to move them this year. (That's going to make callups extremely difficult for those teams)

--Finally, some teams are telling players expecting COVID testing to start December 26th, and training camps tentatively to start on January 3rd.
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Re: 2021 Season discussion (start date, # of games, etc)

Postby Defence21 on Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:53 am

FLPensFan wrote:Here's some more new information from Frank Seravalli last night (with my comments in parenthesis)

--Says the NHL and NHLPA are talking about expanding rosters from 23 to 26, plus a 4 man taxi squad. The 4 man taxi squad reportedly would only earn an AHL salary, but NHL benefits and per diem. (I think this is a VERY GOOD idea with the condensed schedule and probable lack of exhibition games. Not sure how the 3 additional players on the roster would work out, though. If those 3 extra players count against the cap, that's going to be a problem. As the cap sits today, there are 10 teams over the cap, and 4 of those 10 teams don't even have a full 23 man roster. How's that going to work for them? NHL minimum salary is 700K, meaning adding 3 minimum level players is 2.1M. Besides the 10 teams I mentioned, another 6 teams don't have 2.1M in extra cap space to fit 3 more players. And that doesn't account for adding guys like Poulin, O'Connor, or POJ, who's salaries are high 800K or 925K range)

--Calgary, Edmonton, and Vancouver all have AHL affiliates in the United States, and don't have any plans to move them this year. (That's going to make callups extremely difficult for those teams)

--Finally, some teams are telling players expecting COVID testing to start December 26th, and training camps tentatively to start on January 3rd.

How did the NFL handle expanded rosters vs. salary cap? Maybe only the top 23 highest paid players count against the cap, with the final three not?

As for the Canadian teams with U.S. affiliates, aren't the expanded roster and taxi squad in place to prevent teams from having to make call-ups? I would assume within the 7 extras, teams would carry a goalie, two defensemen, and four forwards. And that doesn't include the three healthy scratches that already were on rosters. Sure, teams might have to dig deeper if injuries or covid happen, but those are issues you deal with when the time comes.
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Re: 2021 Season discussion (start date, # of games, etc)

Postby LimerickPensFan on Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:55 am

FLPensFan wrote:Here's some more new information from Frank Seravalli last night (with my comments in parenthesis)

--Says the NHL and NHLPA are talking about expanding rosters from 23 to 26, plus a 4 man taxi squad. The 4 man taxi squad reportedly would only earn an AHL salary, but NHL benefits and per diem. (I think this is a VERY GOOD idea with the condensed schedule and probable lack of exhibition games. Not sure how the 3 additional players on the roster would work out, though. If those 3 extra players count against the cap, that's going to be a problem. As the cap sits today, there are 10 teams over the cap, and 4 of those 10 teams don't even have a full 23 man roster. How's that going to work for them? NHL minimum salary is 700K, meaning adding 3 minimum level players is 2.1M. Besides the 10 teams I mentioned, another 6 teams don't have 2.1M in extra cap space to fit 3 more players. And that doesn't account for adding guys like Poulin, O'Connor, or POJ, who's salaries are high 800K or 925K range)

--Calgary, Edmonton, and Vancouver all have AHL affiliates in the United States, and don't have any plans to move them this year. (That's going to make callups extremely difficult for those teams)

--Finally, some teams are telling players expecting COVID testing to start December 26th, and training camps tentatively to start on January 3rd.

Isn't the cap based only on the top n salaries on the team? Would that allow for the addition of those three players without affecting the cap situation?
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Re: 2021 Season discussion (start date, # of games, etc)

Postby Cow_Master66 on Wed Dec 09, 2020 3:37 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
Cow_Master66 wrote:I still think odds are against rhem having a season but curious to see how many opt out. I would suspect a pretty high number of established players will do so. Why wouldn’t you? You are deferring salary, why not just delay playing?

I'm not sure if a lot will or not. I think more olders players may opt out.....guys with younger kids, guys with pregnant wives, maybe players with older families members in poor health. If I had to take a random guess, I would say under 50 players will opt out.

As to why to not opt out:

1) No play, no pay. You might be getting a bigger chunk taken and salary deferred, but you are still getting paid. You opt out, you're on your own to find a salary somewhere.
2) Contract status. Again, no play, then I would assume the player would not burn a year off their current contract if they voluntarily elected not to play, versus a LTIR situation where a player medically cannot play.


Oh definitely < 50% but I still think it's gonna be an impactful number.

For those opting out, I don't think they will be doing so with the intention of finding another job....Sure they can do stuff on the side if they want but I think most will hang at home with their families and prepare for next season. Most of them can afford to sit out from January - September....We aren't even talking about a full year here.

As for contract status, yes I don't think they will burn a year of their contract nor do I think most would want to, and that will probably factor into their decision. If I'm a pending FA after the season and looking for a big payday, I'd like to knock it out in a shortened season. If I'm on year 2 of a 5 year deal, I'm probably gonna take a few months off, work out at home, and get ready for 2021-2022. You hearing me Mike Matheson? Stay home :)

What about a guy like Letang? He's acknowledged he's on the verge of being traded so why not just opt out this year. He basically buys himself another year in his home city.

Everyone has their own unique situations and reasons for why they will play or not.
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Re: 2021 Season discussion (start date, # of games, etc)

Postby Grunthy on Wed Dec 09, 2020 4:43 pm

I think they will play the season. The nfl has proven, at least most teams, that if you follow proper protocol that you can have a season.
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Re: 2021 Season discussion (start date, # of games, etc)

Postby Pensfan4life8771 on Wed Dec 09, 2020 5:24 pm

Welp per Pierre LeBrun Pens may finish third to last place if these divisions are true LOL:

Boston/Buffalo/NJ/NYI/Rangers/Flyers/Pens/Caps

Car/CBJ/Det/Hawks/Panthers/Wild/Preds/TB

Ducks/Yotes/Avs/Stars/Kings/Sharks/Blues/Vegas

All Canadian division.
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Re: 2021 Season discussion (start date, # of games, etc)

Postby Pensfan4life8771 on Wed Dec 09, 2020 5:25 pm

Does anyone know if there is any out of division play or do we play same 7 teams all season?
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Re: 2021 Season discussion (start date, # of games, etc)

Postby penny lane on Wed Dec 09, 2020 5:33 pm

If the season starts, at least the pens are with their normal foes. Must keep rivals for player interest.
It still reeks of getting any tv monies they can, but I think they need fans attending games.
I am over empty vessels- with no people or sound.
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Re: 2021 Season discussion (start date, # of games, etc)

Postby Cow_Master66 on Wed Dec 09, 2020 5:34 pm

Grunthy wrote:I think they will play the season. The nfl has proven, at least most teams, that if you follow proper protocol that you can have a season.


The NFL has a 16 game season and only travel involved is to/from 1 city then return home. It's not apples and oranges but it's really close. If the NFL wanted to, they could have played the entire season without having teams spend a night in a hotel.

That's not possible in the NHL (or any other sports).
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Re: 2021 Season discussion (start date, # of games, etc)

Postby Sigwolf on Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:44 pm

Cow_Master66 wrote:
Grunthy wrote:I think they will play the season. The nfl has proven, at least most teams, that if you follow proper protocol that you can have a season.


The NFL has a 16 game season and only travel involved is to/from 1 city then return home. It's not apples and oranges but it's really close. If the NFL wanted to, they could have played the entire season without having teams spend a night in a hotel.

That's not possible in the NHL (or any other sports).


Not to mention the NFL has had rampant outbreaks on several occasions even with those less involved circumstances.
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Re: 2021 Season discussion (start date, # of games, etc)

Postby Steve Dave on Thu Dec 10, 2020 7:19 am

Sigwolf wrote:
Cow_Master66 wrote:
Grunthy wrote:I think they will play the season. The nfl has proven, at least most teams, that if you follow proper protocol that you can have a season.


The NFL has a 16 game season and only travel involved is to/from 1 city then return home. It's not apples and oranges but it's really close. If the NFL wanted to, they could have played the entire season without having teams spend a night in a hotel.

That's not possible in the NHL (or any other sports).


Not to mention the NFL has had rmpant outbreaks on several occasions even with those less involved circumstances.

I’m gonna go out on a limb and guess that NFL athletes are a tad bit less disciplined than NHL athletes.
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Re: 2021 Season discussion (start date, # of games, etc)

Postby no name on Thu Dec 10, 2020 9:07 am

Pensfan4life8771 wrote:Welp per Pierre LeBrun Pens may finish third to last place if these divisions are true LOL:

Boston/Buffalo/NJ/NYI/Rangers/Flyers/Pens/Caps

Car/CBJ/Det/Hawks/Panthers/Wild/Preds/TB

Ducks/Yotes/Avs/Stars/Kings/Sharks/Blues/Vegas

All Canadian division.



I kept hearing, Pit CBJ TB FLA, Det, Chi, NASH, STL, we would do better in this division.
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Re: 2021 Season discussion (start date, # of games, etc)

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:55 am

no name wrote:
Pensfan4life8771 wrote:Welp per Pierre LeBrun Pens may finish third to last place if these divisions are true LOL:

Boston/Buffalo/NJ/NYI/Rangers/Flyers/Pens/Caps

Car/CBJ/Det/Hawks/Panthers/Wild/Preds/TB

Ducks/Yotes/Avs/Stars/Kings/Sharks/Blues/Vegas

All Canadian division.



I kept hearing, Pit CBJ TB FLA, Det, Chi, NASH, STL, we would do better in this division.

They swapped PIT and CAR, and swapped MIN and STL. Hadn't heard anything specific about PIT/CAR, but I believe one of STL/MIN requested the change due to travel related issues.
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Re: 2021 Season discussion (start date, # of games, etc)

Postby Cow_Master66 on Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:26 am

Steve Dave wrote:
Sigwolf wrote:
Cow_Master66 wrote:
Grunthy wrote:I think they will play the season. The nfl has proven, at least most teams, that if you follow proper protocol that you can have a season.


The NFL has a 16 game season and only travel involved is to/from 1 city then return home. It's not apples and oranges but it's really close. If the NFL wanted to, they could have played the entire season without having teams spend a night in a hotel.

That's not possible in the NHL (or any other sports).


Not to mention the NFL has had rmpant outbreaks on several occasions even with those less involved circumstances.

I’m gonna go out on a limb and guess that NFL athletes are a tad bit less disciplined than NHL athletes.


Possibly but if you think NHL players will isolate for the next 5 months you are probably kidding yourself. Also look what happens to an NHL team when 2-3 guys get the regular flu....
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Re: 2021 Season discussion (start date, # of games, etc)

Postby no name on Thu Dec 10, 2020 4:06 pm

Cow_Master66 wrote:
Steve Dave wrote:
Sigwolf wrote:
Cow_Master66 wrote:
Grunthy wrote:I think they will play the season. The nfl has proven, at least most teams, that if you follow proper protocol that you can have a season.


The NFL has a 16 game season and only travel involved is to/from 1 city then return home. It's not apples and oranges but it's really close. If the NFL wanted to, they could have played the entire season without having teams spend a night in a hotel.

That's not possible in the NHL (or any other sports).


Not to mention the NFL has had rmpant outbreaks on several occasions even with those less involved circumstances.

I’m gonna go out on a limb and guess that NFL athletes are a tad bit less disciplined than NHL athletes.


there was talk of 2 weeks of games and then players go home for a week type of schedule. each division would be stagered when they are off.

i'm ok with that but i don't want thos weekday afternoon games they are lame as can be.

Possibly but if you think NHL players will isolate for the next 5 months you are probably kidding yourself. Also look what happens to an NHL team when 2-3 guys get the regular flu....
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Re: 2021 Season discussion (start date, # of games, etc)

Postby Pensfan4life8771 on Thu Dec 10, 2020 5:25 pm

In reality lets not kid ourselves. With the kind of money these professional sports like NHL, NBA, MLB and NHL have I would not doubt for a second that they will all be vaccinated before the season starts. You wonder who will have access first? It should be healthcare workers but money talks so I'm sure the sports leagues will get their share too.

Post not made to start political matter, just how I see it going on that level.
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Re: 2021 Season discussion (start date, # of games, etc)

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:12 pm

Pensfan4life8771 wrote:In reality lets not kid ourselves. With the kind of money these professional sports like NHL, NBA, MLB and NHL have I would not doubt for a second that they will all be vaccinated before the season starts. You wonder who will have access first? It should be healthcare workers but money talks so I'm sure the sports leagues will get their share too.

Post not made to start political matter, just how I see it going on that level.

You are probably right. I saw a question on Twitter tonight, question why college and professional sports in certain states are still on-going, while in the same states, most high school sports have been stopped. The best answer I saw....$$$. College sports, and of course pro sports, make enough money to be able to continually test their athletes to follow protocols. High school sports don't have the resources to do necessary testing and screening on a daily or weekly basis.
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