The Penguin organization will trade Crosby

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The Penguin organization will trade Crosby

Postby guiner on Sat Feb 18, 2006 6:04 pm

With a few assumptions, like Malkin being signed and not being lost somehow to free agency and injuries.

In 6 years or so, the Pens will need to consider and will probably have to trade Crosby. I have little doubt, even with the little I have seen of him, Malkin, IMO, will be the better player. They will have to also sign MAF to a huge deal because he will be the top NHL goalie. They will not be able to have 3 guys with maximum dollars under the cap, and when MAF and Fluery approach 27, the organization, wherever it is, will have to trade Crosby in order to keep the more valuable Malkin and MAF.

It will be a high class problem to have, but someday I see this team having 3 guys who will deserve maximum dollars or very close. One will have to go, and in my opinion, that will be Crosby.

Just something I have been thinking about in light of the new CBA, and since the Penguin talk is a little light... was curious to see what others thought too.

g
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Postby wondermoose on Sat Feb 18, 2006 6:09 pm

I think there's some stipulation in the CBA that if you draft a player you can sign him to a certain amount that doesnt go against the cap. I just seem to remember hearing something about that though, I dont have a link or anything though.

And as far as Malkin being better, well, we'll just have to see. Sid is going to get a lot better, bigger, and faster in the next couple of years
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Postby DelPen on Sat Feb 18, 2006 6:22 pm

We'll see how the Lightning handle Richards and Lecevalier when they both become free agents. We will have that problem way, way down the road though, worrying if they will still be in Pittsburgh when that happens is a more pressing concern.
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Postby netwolf on Sat Feb 18, 2006 6:29 pm

I don't think Crosby is going to get much taller, though he's certainly got room to add some muscle.

As far as the main point of the thread, my initial reaction was that it's just too early to tell. Fleury's only played parts of two seasons, Crosby is midway through his rookie campaign, and Malkin has yet to even attend an NHL training camp. Certainly all have incredibly high ceilings and if they all reach them, the Pens will have a "nice" problem to deal with.

There are many issues to be resolved before that even begins to be an issue though. Will they be able to get Malkin out of Russia? I hope so, but that is highly uncertain. Will the development of all three progress? I think so as each one strikes me as the type of player that has enough drive and will to improve on their own. Nothing is a sure thing though. Will the Pittsburgh Penguins even exist then? I hope so, but if not, my interest will lessen significantly. What is the length of the current CBA BTW?

If all three do hit their ceilings though, I am guessing Malkin ends up being better than Crosby. Skillwise they are comparable from what I've seen, but Malkin is the bigger guy so he gets the edge.
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Postby Defence21 on Sat Feb 18, 2006 6:45 pm

Chris wrote:Remember the cap increases during good seasons and one way or another the Pens will have a new venue that will generate the $ for them to spend and profit. This alone makes it easier to keep more then 2 high priced players.


You do realize that the cap increasing is directly tied to players' salaries increasing leaguewide, right?

As the cap increases, so will players' salaries. Yes, the Penguins will have more room to sign guys like Malkin, Fleury and Crosby, but three players do not make a team. Remember that Whitney, Orpik, Welch and others likely will be due for some decent money. While the cap may raise, it is still a cap, and teams still must stay under it.

With that said, it is impossible to predict what will happen in 5-10 years. I'm more interested in watching now and thinking about now. For all we know, the Penguins could be in Kansas City, Houston or Las Vegas in two years.
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Postby saveourpens on Sat Feb 18, 2006 7:11 pm

How about if we get Kessel or Johnson. There is a potential for us to have 4 franchise players. If we get Kessel or Johnson, and Crosby, Fleury and Malkin, and all 4 reach their peak, no way are we keeping all of them.
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Postby NIN on Sat Feb 18, 2006 7:15 pm

By then there will be another NEWIER CBA inplace and I think that one will include the option to franchise a player. If they do have to trade Crosby or Malkin Patrick will be the last to know and I am sure he will wait until only 2 teams can afford that player and then trade him to the one with the worst deal.

Oh wait, the CBA won't be the only thing that will have changed by then either.
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Re: The Penguin organization will trade Crosby

Postby Ben Klingston on Sat Feb 18, 2006 7:44 pm

guiner wrote:In 6 years or so, the Pens will need to consider and will probably have to trade Crosby.


If players like Crosby, Malkin, Fleury, Kessel/Johnson, Whitney, Orpik, Welch, Christiansen, etc. all live up to their potential, in 6 years or so, the Pens should be coming off of 3-4 dominating years, hopefully with a few Cups mixed in there.

The CBA will break up a dominating team, and distribute the talent to the rest of the year. Then, the Pens will start to rebuild around the remaining components. Kinda like it's supposed to work.
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Postby jmh70 on Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:01 pm

I'm against trading any of the top prospects (not including Orpik), but I hope our pick in this year's draft is being shopped. There's really no blue-chippers in this draft, so I'd like to see what the Pens could get in return for the 1st or 2nd pick.
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Postby NIN on Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:16 pm

jmh70 wrote:I'm against trading any of the top prospects (not including Orpik), but I hope our pick in this year's draft is being shopped. There's really no blue-chippers in this draft, so I'd like to see what the Pens could get in return for the 1st or 2nd pick.


I think Staal could be a player that compliments Crosby and/or Malkin just perfectly but I also think he is about 3 years away from being an every game player. Johnson is fine too but if you want to draft either of these 2 players you have to keep them, moving them would be a waste.
Kessel is over hyped and some might take a chance on him being their very own Crosby or Ovechkin type savior. If so, those GMs would really sell the farm to get him and the Pens should take advantage of that. The only thing that worries me is that I don't thin kour current GM has those clubs in his golf bag, if you know what I mean.
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Postby Defence21 on Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:32 pm

NIN wrote:Kessel is over hyped and some might take a chance on him being their very own Crosby or Ovechkin type savior. If so, those GMs would really sell the farm to get him and the Pens should take advantage of that. The only thing that worries me is that I don't thin kour current GM has those clubs in his golf bag, if you know what I mean.


First of all, I don't think Kessel is overhyped. He is what he is, a gifted offensive player who happens to be greedy. I've not heard anyone rfer to him as a savior, as a once-in-10-year pick, or anything remotely close. I've heard that he is good and likely will go in the top five in a relatively weak draft class. There may be a team or two out there that think a little more highly of him, but I doubt anyone is considering him a potential savior. First overall picks come along every year. Very rarely do we have the hype we had the previous two years with Ovechkin/Malkin and Crosby.

Lastly, I don't understand all of the jabs at Craig Patrick you make in nearly every post. Yes, I think we all agree that he needs to go -- and the sooner the better -- but taking untimely jab after untimely jab isn't proving a point or raising your status.
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Postby NIN on Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:42 pm

Defence21 wrote:Lastly, I don't understand all of the jabs at Craig Patrick you make in nearly every post. Yes, I think we all agree that he needs to go -- and the sooner the better -- but taking untimely jab after untimely jab isn't proving a point or raising your status.


:lol: "My status" is what it is, which is to say probably as bad at message boards as Patirck is at manageing a professional hockey team these days (jab). Patrick's first 5 years were great, the middle 5 accesptable, and the past 5-well it's jabbing time my friend.
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Re: The Penguin organization will trade Crosby

Postby Daniel on Sun Feb 19, 2006 12:38 am

Another thing to consider is how lucky the Pens are for not getting Malkin this year. They have Fleury signed in 2004, Crosby signed in 2005 and Malkin signed in 2006 (I hope). I don't remember the terms of Crosby's contract, but I think it was for 3 years. The Pens will probably end up having each player as a free agent each year, rather than 2 or 3 at one time.

Six years from now, Fleury could very well be a free agent with Crosby having one more year and Malkin having 2 more years on their respective contracts.

Fleury will sign the first contract and get close to the league maximum. Crosby will sign next and get a little bit more, as the cap increases, and the same with Malkin.
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Postby FallenHero96 on Sun Feb 19, 2006 12:48 am

If I had to trade one, not including Malkin because I havent seen him play even 1 NHL game, but between Crosby and Fleury I would trade Fleury.

Unless Fleury is absolutely unbelievable, like the next Patrick Roy, then I would keep him. Crosby will be on this team forever, or as long as they can help it. You can find quality goaltending, but superstar players like Crosby are too hard to come by. Its debatable which person would have more of an impact on the team, but its a fact that not many people buy tickets to come see the goaltender.
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Postby Pitts on Sun Feb 19, 2006 10:47 am

FallenHero96 wrote:If I had to trade one, not including Malkin because I havent seen him play even 1 NHL game, but between Crosby and Fleury I would trade Fleury.

Unless Fleury is absolutely unbelievable, like the next Patrick Roy, then I would keep him. Crosby will be on this team forever, or as long as they can help it. You can find quality goaltending, but superstar players like Crosby are too hard to come by. Its debatable which person would have more of an impact on the team, but its a fact that not many people buy tickets to come see the goaltender.


I think most hockey experts would tell you you build a championship team from the goal out. "Superstar" forwards can be bought and traded for. But there are only a handful of top-notch "superstar" goalies ever available. I believe Fleury will reach near-Roy proportions. Fleury, Luongo, Lundqvist, Lethonen all appear to be the next top 5 in goal. You don't trade that for any price. I, for one, pay to see a great goalie make fantastice saves. Fluery makes it worth it to sit in the end where he tends goal twice. Trading a forward of high caliber can bring in several others to offset the loss. You can't do that with a great goalie.

That said, I think the Pens should be able to keep at least 2 of the 3 mentioned superstars on the roster long-haul. However, as has been said, I expect a few championship teams in there before the Fleury/Crosby/Malkin run is over. By then, maybe the team has a deep-pocketed ownership group that won't balk at the cap and be selling out so regularly that keeping the 3 might not be as hard-pressed as we all think.
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Postby NIN on Sun Feb 19, 2006 11:06 am

Poeple pay to see winning hockey. The most important player on the ice is always going to be the goal-tender. Without Barrasso's stellar play or Pieterangelos SAVE we never even know what a STanley Cup winner is.
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Postby netwolf on Sun Feb 19, 2006 11:38 am

Pitts wrote:I believe Fleury will reach near-Roy proportions.


Well, as long as you aren't expecting too much. :wink:
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Postby 25+66+22=#1 on Sun Feb 19, 2006 12:37 pm

DelPen wrote:We'll see how the Lightning handle Richards and Lecevalier when they both become free agents. We will have that problem way, way down the road though, worrying if they will still be in Pittsburgh when that happens is a more pressing concern.


They were both Free Agents this past year and both were signed. I think if you want to win cups you keep both. This may be a reach but don't underestimate Sidney. He exibits Messier and Bobby Clarke qualities while i think having a higher talent level than both. He's the next great team leader. Malkin may or may not be the same, but for now he doesn't even speak english. What Malkin is however is relentless. Think about it Sidney the indomitable will with Malkin the relentless machine. Sounds like a winning combo to me. Sorta like Yzerman & Fedorov, Gretzky & Messier, and dare i say Lemieux and Francis.
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Postby Draftnik on Sun Feb 19, 2006 12:47 pm

25+66+22=#1 wrote:
DelPen wrote:We'll see how the Lightning handle Richards and Lecevalier when they both become free agents. We will have that problem way, way down the road though, worrying if they will still be in Pittsburgh when that happens is a more pressing concern.


They were both Free Agents this past year and both were signed. I think if you want to win cups you keep both. This may be a reach but don't underestimate Sidney. He exibits Messier and Bobby Clarke qualities while i think having a higher talent level than both. He's the next great team leader. Malkin may or may not be the same, but for now he doesn't even speak english. What Malkin is however is relentless. Think about it Sidney the indomitable will with Malkin the relentless machine. Sounds like a winning combo to me. Sorta like Yzerman & Fedorov, Gretzky & Messier, and dare i say Lemieux and Francis.



Lecavalier signed a 4 year deal. Richards signed a 1 year deal. At a minimum he will be a RFA after this season. I think he may be a UFA.

Who knows what the next CBA will look like. Who knows if Crosby, MAF and/or Malkin will get hurt. Who knows if Malkin will thrive in the NHL although I think he will. Who knows if MAF will become a franchise goalie worthy of a max deal.

If all 3 of them play well enough to earn huge contracts it would mean the Crosby, Malkin, and MAF were simultaneously playing at an elite level which would mean great things for the Pens. They should be so lucky to have that problem.
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Postby Jamie on Sun Feb 19, 2006 3:08 pm

THere are to many variables involved to make any assumptions on peronnel moves after this season. We will have a new ownership at some point, probably a new GM, and more than likely a new coaching staff.
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Postby NIN on Mon Feb 20, 2006 9:09 am

Jamie wrote:THere are to many variables involved to make any assumptions on peronnel moves after this season. We will have a new ownership at some point, probably a new GM, and more than likely a new coaching staff.


Seriously there will be a new CBA by then. Crosby and Malkin are ours for like 7 years. Only then can they command top dollar. Hopefully the new CBA will include a franchise option. I think it will if ticket sales remain high. If the Pens have a new arena here they wont complain about it either.
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