If the Pens move from Pittsburgh, who is to blame?

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If the Pens move from Pittsburgh, who is to blame?

Postby nexguy66 on Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:00 am

I have not kept up with all of the legalities surrounding the IOC and such... so to sum it all up, who would be mostly to blame? partly to blame?

City of Pittsburgh?
Pittsburgh residence?
????? ? ?? ? ?? ? ??
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Postby newarenanow on Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:03 am

1) The politicans for dragging their *sses.

2) The NHL for approving the move now that there are two plans.
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Postby conforto45 on Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:04 am

i put all the blame on Netwolf
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Postby DrBoni on Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:09 am

Neil Wilkinson...


and Peter.
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Postby socket on Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:12 am

CP
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Postby Corban87 on Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:13 am

god
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Postby spi on Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:14 am

Without a doubt: THE POLITICIANS

They have treated the penguins as if they did not care whether they moved for 7 years because, well they couldnt, uuntil 2007. They kept telling them to find a way to finance it privately knowing that they would not be able to do so. But when they did, they realized that they would look bad so they drafted a plan B to their proposal. If anyone other than Mario owned the team, they would just have waited out the lease at the igloo and moved them without an effort to keep them here. The only reason that there is still a chance is because Lemiuex really wants them to stay, which is why he sold them after there was a gaurentee in place for the new owner to keep them here.

If the pens leave, it will be because the politicians waited too long to keep them. Period.
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Postby spi on Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:15 am

I forgot to add to my last statement

If the pens leave, it will be because the politicians waited too long to keep them and the states gaming board and Governor are corrupt. PERIOD
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Re: Blame

Postby newarenanow on Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:18 am

Tade wrote:Blame Canada
:lol:
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Postby RedLightDistrict on Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:19 am

We can't blame the politicians -- you get the government you deserve.

Would we be happy if Allegheny County would spend $300 million for a new symphony hall / opera house? Probably not.

Blame your fellow Pittsburghers for general lack of interest in the team.
Blame the new economics of pro sports.

Blame the board for not choosing IoC (which goes back to just the politicians responsible for appointing the board, i.e. Rendell).

But all Pittsburgh/Allegheny County politicians are not responsible -- to spend taxpayer dollars on an arena would be irresponsible.


And I say that as someone who pretty much despises all our local politicians.
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Postby nexguy66 on Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:20 am

I am sure this is common knowledge, but not to me :)

Did public subsidizing, or maybe a bond, for a new arena ever get proposed? If so, how did it fair?
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Re: Blame

Postby Profiler on Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:21 am

Tade wrote:Blame Canada


Dont blame Canada.........BLAME YOURSELF!!!!! :D

(and Onorato and the city govt. for screwing the Pens for 8 years! :evil: )
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Postby bill from turtle creek on Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:25 am

Onorato will be the most significant cause. He is the ONLY significant elected official who has not rendered an opinion on the casino situation. Essentially everybody else has endorsed IoC. If Onorato had used his bully pulpit, this thing would be over. Instead, he has kept his mouth shut on this whole thing at the behest of Rendell.

And please, don't give me the hogwash that he wants to be able to negotiate with FC afterwards, so he kept his mouth shut. It's not his job to act that way. Politicians never, ever keep their mouths shut. If he spoke up, IoC is a sure winner, and the arena situation is only a small part of why they should win.

For staying uninvolved, and for being Rendell's lackey, it's all on him if this whole thing falls through. If O'Connor weren't dead, I'd say he gets some blame, too, but that bum skipped town before the verdict could be rendered.
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Postby newarenanow on Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:26 am

RedLightDistrict wrote:We can't blame the politicians -- you get the government you deserve.

Would we be happy if Allegheny County would spend $300 million for a new symphony hall / opera house? Probably not.

Blame your fellow Pittsburghers for general lack of interest in the team.
Blame the new economics of pro sports.

Blame the board for not choosing IoC (which goes back to just the politicians responsible for appointing the board, i.e. Rendell).

But all Pittsburgh/Allegheny County politicians are not responsible -- to spend taxpayer dollars on an arena would be irresponsible.


And I say that as someone who pretty much despises all our local politicians.


I blame you. :wink:
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Postby conforto45 on Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:28 am

forget the arena... im all about getting that underground tunnel that goes from the north side to the south side, under the river..

yea!! that would be awesome!!! lets spend millions on a stupid tunnel that goes 300 yards.. or, we can just use the 500 bridges that we have and keep it the way it is
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Postby spi on Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:39 am

We can't blame the politicians -- you get the government you deserve.

Would we be happy if Allegheny County would spend $300 million for a new symphony hall / opera house? Probably not.

Blame your fellow Pittsburghers for general lack of interest in the team.
Blame the new economics of pro sports.

Blame the board for not choosing IoC (which goes back to just the politicians responsible for appointing the board, i.e. Rendell).

But all Pittsburgh/Allegheny County politicians are not responsible -- to spend taxpayer dollars on an arena would be irresponsible.


And I say that as someone who pretty much despises all our local politicians.



So Redlight district, do you also disagree that if the politicians, specifically Onorato, Murphy (I will even give a pass to OConnor for not having a backbone since he was not Mayor for the vast majority of this saga) and the Politicians in charge of specifying slots revenue recipients back when the law was passed would have spoken up like they are now that an arena and the penguins are important that we would be in this mess???????

Rendell always said that he will make the arena a priority when the local government says it is a priority. That did not happen until December. If they said that the arena was a priority back in 04 when they were deciding what projects would get funded through the slots tax on the operators profits, they could have had this paid for already.

To blame pittsburghers for lack of interest in the team is ridiculous. Take a look at their attendace over the last 15 years. There is not one year that suggests they lack support, even 02-03 when they SUCKED BAD they had almost 12K. Every other year it has been 15K or above.

When I say politicians are to blame it is due to their silence on the importance of getting an updated facility for the Pens and more importantly the CITY. I am not saying I blame them for not raising our taxes to build it.
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Minority

Postby pensrule on Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:54 am

I know I'll get blasted for this, but here's my thoughts anyways.

I'm no Mario hater, but I blame Lemieux. Why did he have to sell before the decision was made on the slots license? If he would have held onto the team and negotiated Plan B to his liking (assuming IOC doesn't win), then sold the team, we would not be in this situation. Instead he bailed (yeah I said it) out and left it to someone else to deal with. Balsille has no ties to Pgh. At least with Mario, I believe he really wants the team to stay, but Balsille on the other hand could really care less. In fact he'd probably love to have a reason to move them to Ontario. Now maybe that works to his favor and he will get a kick a** deal from the City and County that will allow the Pens to prosper, but it's the fear of the unknown.

As far as this whole seven year thing goes with the Politicians, their hands were tied. The city was in bankruptcy for crying out loud. Where was the money supposed to come from? Everyone knows that there would be no support for a taxpayer increase to pay for the arena, the beloved Steelers couldn't even get that! The only reason there's money now is the Casino revenues will be available. In situations like this, it always comes down to the last minute and we would have been much better off with Mario as the owner instead of an outsider like Balsille.

Honestly this is killing me! I hope everything works itself out and we can put this behind us, because the future looks so damn bright on the ice. GCB, throw us a bone, it will be really difficult dealing with this team leaving for my son and I.
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Postby pfim on Fri Dec 08, 2006 12:07 pm

Why did he have to sell before the decision was made on the slots license?


To put pressure on the gaming board, city, county, state.

The city was in bankruptcy for crying out loud.


The city isn't putting any money into this anyway, so I'm not sure why this is an issue.
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Re: Minority

Postby newarenanow on Fri Dec 08, 2006 12:07 pm

pensrule wrote:I know I'll get blasted for this, but here's my thoughts anyways.

I'm no Mario hater, but I blame Lemieux. Why did he have to sell before the decision was made on the slots license? If he would have held onto the team and negotiated Plan B to his liking (assuming IOC doesn't win), then sold the team, we would not be in this situation. Instead he bailed (yeah I said it) out and left it to someone else to deal with. Balsille has no ties to Pgh. At least with Mario, I believe he really wants the team to stay, but Balsille on the other hand could really care less. In fact he'd probably love to have a reason to move them to Ontario. Now maybe that works to his favor and he will get a kick a** deal from the City and County that will allow the Pens to prosper, but it's the fear of the unknown.

As far as this whole seven year thing goes with the Politicians, their hands were tied. The city was in bankruptcy for crying out loud. Where was the money supposed to come from? Everyone knows that there would be no support for a taxpayer increase to pay for the arena, the beloved Steelers couldn't even get that! The only reason there's money now is the Casino revenues will be available. In situations like this, it always comes down to the last minute and we would have been much better off with Mario as the owner instead of an outsider like Balsille.

Honestly this is killing me! I hope everything works itself out and we can put this behind us, because the future looks so damn bright on the ice. GCB, throw us a bone, it will be really difficult dealing with this team leaving for my son and I.


I don't blame you for thinking that and I'm not going to blast you. But if Mario was still the owner, 1) the politicans may still have been dragging their feet and 2) if it does come down to Plan 'B', they wouldn't give him as great a deal as JB because Mario does have ties to the city and probably wouldn't move the team.

Fear is the greatest motivator. That is why nothing occurred while Lemieux was owner. Now that we have an outsider that could move the team w/o blinking an I, look how much progress has been made. Land has been purchased, a FRAMEWORK for Plan 'b' has been put together. We have a casino plan, and the other applicants are willing to pay for over 1/3 the cost.

Yes, this does suck, but it was the only way it would get done, and if it does get done, it will be a great deal for the Pens with JB as an owner.
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Postby newarenanow on Fri Dec 08, 2006 12:09 pm

pfim wrote:
The city was in bankruptcy for crying out loud.


The city isn't putting any money into this anyway, so I'm not sure why this is an issue.


Then where would the money have come from. Until 2 years ago, there was no slots law, the state wasn't going to foot the bill, and the city had no money to pitch in.

The only reason why it may work now is because of the slots. The politicans could have done something though last year and would have avoided this mess. But pretty much before that, their hands were tied.
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Re: Minority

Postby pensrule on Fri Dec 08, 2006 12:10 pm

newarenanow wrote:
pensrule wrote:I know I'll get blasted for this, but here's my thoughts anyways.

I'm no Mario hater, but I blame Lemieux. Why did he have to sell before the decision was made on the slots license? If he would have held onto the team and negotiated Plan B to his liking (assuming IOC doesn't win), then sold the team, we would not be in this situation. Instead he bailed (yeah I said it) out and left it to someone else to deal with. Balsille has no ties to Pgh. At least with Mario, I believe he really wants the team to stay, but Balsille on the other hand could really care less. In fact he'd probably love to have a reason to move them to Ontario. Now maybe that works to his favor and he will get a kick a** deal from the City and County that will allow the Pens to prosper, but it's the fear of the unknown.

As far as this whole seven year thing goes with the Politicians, their hands were tied. The city was in bankruptcy for crying out loud. Where was the money supposed to come from? Everyone knows that there would be no support for a taxpayer increase to pay for the arena, the beloved Steelers couldn't even get that! The only reason there's money now is the Casino revenues will be available. In situations like this, it always comes down to the last minute and we would have been much better off with Mario as the owner instead of an outsider like Balsille.

Honestly this is killing me! I hope everything works itself out and we can put this behind us, because the future looks so damn bright on the ice. GCB, throw us a bone, it will be really difficult dealing with this team leaving for my son and I.


I don't blame you for thinking that and I'm not going to blast you. But if Mario was still the owner, 1) the politicans may still have been dragging their feet and 2) if it does come down to Plan 'B', they wouldn't give him as great a deal as JB because Mario does have ties to the city and probably wouldn't move the team.

Fear is the greatest motivator. That is why nothing occurred while Lemieux was owner. Now that we have an outsider that could move the team w/o blinking an I, look how much progress has been made. Land has been purchased, a FRAMEWORK for Plan 'b' has been put together. We have a casino plan, and the other applicants are willing to pay for over 1/3 the cost.

Yes, this does suck, but it was the only way it would get done, and if it does get done, it will be a great deal for the Pens with JB as an owner.


I agree, "If" it gets done Balsille and the Pens will be sitting pretty financially, which would be parlayed to an even greater product on the ice I'm sure. I'm just hoping for the best....
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Postby NIN on Fri Dec 08, 2006 12:11 pm

I'll blame everybody. Lemieux, Bettman, Randell, etc..
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Postby pfim on Fri Dec 08, 2006 12:23 pm

Then where would the money have come from.


How much "city" money went into Heinz, PNC and the DLCC?

"We can't help because we're fiscally irresponsible" rings rather hollow, no?
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Re: Blame

Postby eastonpensfan on Fri Dec 08, 2006 12:24 pm

Profiler wrote:
Tade wrote:Blame Canada


Dont blame Canada.........BLAME YOURSELF!!!!! :D

(and Onorato and the city govt. for screwing the Pens for 8 years! :evil: )


Somebody's never seen Canadian Bacon!
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Postby eastonpensfan on Fri Dec 08, 2006 12:24 pm

I blame the thread starter.
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