A Call to Sensability (likely in vain)

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A Call to Sensability (likely in vain)

Postby netwolf on Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:37 pm

As others stated a few days ago, this is not the death knell for the franchise. The rollercoaster is nowhere near the end yet.

Onorato and Ravenstahl have some serious work to do.

Or we could all jump to conclusions and just post "The Pens are dead, the Pens are dead" all day long.
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Postby Hawkeynut on Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:39 pm

They sure aren't dead.. but they are limping terribly.
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Re: A Call to Sensability (likely in vain)

Postby newarenanow on Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:44 pm

netwolf wrote:As others stated a few days ago, this is not the death knell for the franchise. The rollercoaster is nowhere near the end yet.

Onorato and Ravenstahl have some serious work to do.

Or we could all jump to conclusions and just post "The Pens are dead, the Pens are dead" all day long.


I think it is close to the end just because of timing. At least now we know what we have to next. But Plan 'B' will have to be done withing hte next month or two. I still have faith, it just dropped some though.
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Postby bill from turtle creek on Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:44 pm

We knew before that IoC's chances were slim, although I didn't think PITG would win. We all figured deep down that this was a Plan B deal eventually. Now we can just have the folks get to work on Plan B.

It'll happen, folks. It'll happen. Don't jump off the bridge just yet.
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Postby eastonpensfan on Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:45 pm

The pens are dead, The pens are dead!

Oh, wait... DON'T do that!

sorry.
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Postby Corban87 on Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:47 pm

Yes it's not the end of the Pens just yet. But what COMPLETE BS this whole process was.
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Postby Ginger on Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:47 pm

Well, they are if the city doesn't come out of it's comatose state soon. This is such a blow & I'm not one to holler the end is near, but at this point I'm sure as heck not ruling it out either. It just became a LOT closer to being the case.

I feel so utterly wrung out & sad 'cuz I really thought this was going to happen. Must be the hole in my brain that gave me faith in a bunch of politicians to do something right.
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Postby wm0712 on Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:47 pm

i don't know if plan b will work, but if by any chance that beer guy buys the team... he already says he will build one on his own money... who knows what will happen
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Postby Mr. T on Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:47 pm

eastonpensfan wrote:The pens are dead, The pens are dead!

Oh, wait... DON'T do that!

sorry.


But they are! RIOT!
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Postby The Snapshot on Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:47 pm

It is a serious blow, but in business I have learned that the longer you dwell on negative events in a "process" the more impact they have.

If you still have options for overcoming them, then the sooner you throw your energy there the better your chances of winning are.

This is a PROCESS, so nothing ended today. I just hope that Mario and company do not roll over and die of frustration, because without a buyer they need to be the ones working this through.

The Pens are gone unless the mayor and Onorato work with Lemieux and company to get Plan B done now. On the positive side, at least now they CAN talk about it.
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Postby pfim on Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:48 pm

Don't jump off the bridge just yet.


Great, NOW you tell me.
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Postby Hawkeynut on Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:56 pm

Well... the countdown is on.. 6 months until that ol' lease at the big Mellon is expired. Now the back are against the walls.... I have a bad feeling the Pens will be playing out of a new city this time next year. :cry:
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Postby dman66 on Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:06 pm

Hawkeynut wrote:Well... the countdown is on.. 6 months until that ol' lease at the big Mellon is expired. Now the back are against the walls.... I have a bad feeling the Pens will be playing out of a new city this time next year. :cry:

i thought the lease ended in january, but the pens had to play the rest of the season out. maybe i was just hearing things...
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Postby ams on Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:07 pm

sensibility's no fun, though! can't we instead act as though we know everything they knew, and that anyone who didn't see it our way is senile, and that sidney crosby is boarding a plane for portland/vegas/hamilton/winnepeg right now?

i think we're all bummed, but i'm with netwolf.
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Postby Ginger on Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:19 pm

The Futuristic Bird wrote:I don't live in Pittsburgh, so I've pulled for IOC. I won't pay the taxes that fund Plan B though, so I've held my tongue. But how can this decision be seen as anything other than a big F'U to the Pens? When Mario bought the team, he was virtually promised an arena. Then the city's economy turned bad, and there was NO public money forthcoming. So he went out and struck a deal that would save the city the problem of financing a new arena. Given the supposed goose that laid a golden egg, the city and state still found a way to say no thanks. Now it's back to tax money or the highway. If the team leaves Pittsburgh, I'll be terribly upset. But there's no one to blame but the city and state officials at this point. The IOC seemed to be the magic bullet. Now it's back to square one at the virtual 11th hour. Seriously, from a rational, outside perspective, this seems absolutely ridiculous.


That's always been at the crux of it. This really beats all tho'! They have an opportunity at long last to get someone ELSE pay for something to improve the city & they STILL don't leap on it!

I seriously question myself today why Pittsburgh is still in my heart. I'm beginning to feel like I've adopted a retarded child. :(
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Postby Bowser on Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:21 pm

Ginger - I agree... if the Pens leave. I will have no faith in our leadership to do the right thing in the future when other hard decisions present itself.
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Postby ZelieMike on Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:32 pm

The Pens ain't going nowhere's, cause there's nowhere's for them to go....

There is simply no place that Mario can pick them up and move this or next year. Even if he wanted, and I don't see any sign he does.

Barden has stated all along that he will contribute, which if you think about it, as a city resident v a Pens fan, is what he should be about.

In reality, its not Barden's or even the City's job to pick the Pens over anything else, its the city's job to pick what's best for the city.

Now, I certainly agree that having the Pens is better than not for the city, but that doesn't trumpet all.

Barden's location is easily the best location, especially given the severe protests of the Hill District residents to any type of gaming.

Look for the new buyer to do a few doubleline depreciations on the capital costs of the new arena, and subtract that from his bid, and update his revenue projections.

ZM
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Postby Stoosh on Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:39 pm

As others stated a few days ago, this is not the death knell for the franchise. The rollercoaster is nowhere near the end yet.

Onorato and Ravenstahl have some serious work to do.

Or we could all jump to conclusions and just post "The Pens are dead, the Pens are dead" all day long.


Here, here...although certain other posters seem to have no problem fiddling while Rome may indeed be burning (the "I told you so" posts about the team leaving on the Gaming Board thread). I guess we'll have to wait and see how badly everything is burning first.

Onorato said on the radio several times last week that he has a legally-binding commitment in writing from Barden for the $7.5 million-per-year in funding for the arena. In fact, the Post-Gazette reported back in April that this funding was actually built into his application, so it sound like it's just as much a part of his plan as the actual slots parlor is.

As far as the Pens go, I'll say this. If the best thing that could happen was victory by the IoC, then I'd argue that victory by Barden was the next best thing. It's a big step down, but I feel much better with Barden involved than I would feel if Forest City was the ones that had to pony up the Plan B money.

I'm still terribly disappointed, but this is certainly not over. If I'm Onorato and Ravenstahl, I'm knocking on Mario's door tomorrow morning at 8:00 AM with a copy of Plan B and a phone with Barden on the other line.
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Postby gregor on Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:40 pm

...just give me the rope

:cry:
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Postby tifosi77 on Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:43 pm

Ginger wrote:That's always been at the crux of it. This really beats all tho'! They have an opportunity at long last to get someone ELSE pay for something to improve the city & they STILL don't leap on it!


Can you think of another city that has breezed past someone else offering to pay for a $300 million multi-purpose facility out of pocket? Was the rest of the offer really that much worse than Majestic Star?

It's certainly not the death knell for the franchise in Pittsburgh, but it very much is in dire straights.
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Postby DayWalker on Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:44 pm

Stoosh wrote:
As others stated a few days ago, this is not the death knell for the franchise. The rollercoaster is nowhere near the end yet.

Onorato and Ravenstahl have some serious work to do.

Or we could all jump to conclusions and just post "The Pens are dead, the Pens are dead" all day long.


Here, here...although certain other posters seem to have no problem fiddling while Rome may indeed be burning (the "I told you so" posts about the team leaving on the Gaming Board thread). I guess we'll have to wait and see how badly everything is burning first.

Onorato said on the radio several times last week that he has a legally-binding commitment in writing from Barden for the $7.5 million-per-year in funding for the arena. In fact, the Post-Gazette reported back in April that this funding was actually built into his application, so it sound like it's just as much a part of his plan as the actual slots parlor is.

As far as the Pens go, I'll say this. If the best thing that could happen was victory by the IoC, then I'd argue that victory by Barden was the next best thing. It's a big step down, but I feel much better with Barden involved than I would feel if Forest City was the ones that had to pony up the Plan B money.

I'm still terribly disappointed, but this is certainly not over. If I'm Onorato and Ravenstahl, I'm knocking on Mario's door tomorrow morning at 8:00 AM with a copy of Plan B and a phone with Barden on the other line.


I couldn't agree more with your analysis of Barden vs. FCE, Stoosh.

However, while it would be leadership on the part of Onorato and Ravenstahl to hammer out Plan B ASAP, is Plan B really such a worthwhile proposal for the Penguins?
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Re: A Call to Sensability (likely in vain)

Postby Geezer on Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:45 pm

netwolf wrote:As others stated a few days ago, this is not the death knell for the franchise. The rollercoaster is nowhere near the end yet.

Onorato and Ravenstahl have some serious work to do.

Or we could all jump to conclusions and just post "The Pens are dead, the Pens are dead" all day long.
I think you've been considered by most people to be one of the most knowledgible posters on the board and And I really respect your opinions.Technically you're right and it's usually best in life to keep a positive outlook.But in this case I see very little reason for much hope.
I've rarely seen any reason to put faith in politicians or their lackeys to solve problems or serve the public good. The part of the casino decision the worris mr the most is that Barden has no reason to want an arena built.If he can't wiggle out of it an arena will cost him $7.5 million per year.If the Pens move he's off the hook.He has no inentive for the Pens to stay ad 7.5 million reasons why he's better off if they leave.
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Now that the slots decision has become reality..............

Postby saints11 on Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:50 pm

does the prospect of a "PLAN B" arena lock the development into the same site as IOC had or is the site now negotiable also? Or is it to developed at that site because of the city/county commitment?
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Postby ams on Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:53 pm

THE CITY did not pass on the arena. Pittsburgh did not make this decision.
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Re: A Call to Sensability (likely in vain)

Postby drtofu66 on Wed Dec 20, 2006 2:03 pm

Geezer wrote:I've rarely seen any reason to put faith in politicians or their lackeys to solve problems or serve the public good. The part of the casino decision the worris mr the most is that Barden has no reason to want an arena built.If he can't wiggle out of it an arena will cost him $7.5 million per year.If the Pens move he's off the hook.He has no inentive for the Pens to stay ad 7.5 million reasons why he's better off if they leave.


All of this is my interpretation of thing, of course, but--

The politicos have been saying that Pittsburgh needs a new arena and an arena will be built, so Barden's $7.5M a year is going to go into that; whether the Pens will be the anchor tenant is up in the air, of course, but if Barden is somehow rooting for the Pens to leave to save money, that may be entirely misplaced. At least I hope it is; want him to pay for everything he said he would since it seems to me that he just copied IoC's proposal late in the process and won because the GCB liked his location better. This city owes the Penguins and IoC BIG time because if not for their proposal, Pittsburgh would be lucky to be getting 1/5 of the development that is coming now.
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