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Postby newarenanow on Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:27 am

It shows that 88% of the people think the fix is in.

So they had an interview with a nonvoting member of the gaming board.

He said it is ridiculous to think the fix is in.

What worries me however is he said that the main criteria for selection of the slots license is who will raise the most money for tax relief at the state level.

Only if all other things are equal will they take into consideration local contributions.

It looks like FC is playing this right. They are using huge numbers (which probably aren't real) and aren't giving much back to the community.
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Re: On kdka.com

Postby ExPatriatePen on Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:04 am

newarenanow wrote:What worries me however is he said that the main criteria for selection of the slots license is who will raise the most money for tax relief at the state level.


This is the essence of the whole initiative.

It's all the legislators were thinking of when they crafted the proposal/law.
Unfortnately, they weren't specific enough in including more verbage dealing with the impact to the local communites (but that's understandable since it was an issue crafted by the State and not by Local Pols)

What's really important is that the State does effective due dilegence on evaluating this aspect of the various license proposals.
Last edited by ExPatriatePen on Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby newarenanow on Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:08 am

Agreed, if Harrahs numbers are correct, they are going to get the license.

But if the due dilegence is done correct, and they show Harrahs as being a lot closer to the projections of the other two applicants, then it will be close.

The IOC should win if the revenue projections are close. That is how you will know if the fix is in or not. IF all revenue projections are close and Harrahs still gets it, then something smells.
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Tax revenues

Postby MKRA on Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:25 am

Fine, tax revenue generated is what matters most, if not exclusively.

But then why was Rendell once suggesting (saying, actually) that the slots were the Penguins only chance of getting a new arena?

And how different, frankly, will tax revenues be accross the board? Same number of machinges, presumably. Is it the operator? The overall surroundings? Why, in theory, should one generate far more than the other? All of this I don't really understand.
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Postby bill from turtle creek on Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:32 am

Before it gets that far, we just need to have Onorato make sure that whomever wins, sends a large chunk of money towards an arena. The more certain that FC is that they don't need to do that, the more likely it is that they will just balk. Barden's seeming willingness to contribute may come in big here.
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Re: Tax revenues

Postby ExPatriatePen on Sat Feb 25, 2006 12:34 pm

MKRA wrote:And how different, frankly, will tax revenues be accross the board? Same number of machinges, presumably. Is it the operator? The overall surroundings? Why, in theory, should one generate far more than the other? All of this I don't really understand.


You've never been to Las Vegas have you? (I don't mean that dismissively).

LV is great lesson in marketing. You'll see properties on the Strip that are new and ostentatious, but offer lousy odds. They pull in patrons like there's no tomorrow. Then you'll find run down properties that are hidden on backstreets with great odds that are nearly empty.

It's all about entertainment and enjoying yourself. Nicer, accessable properties with amenities will likely draw more patrons than those that are smaller and offer less of an overall experience.

Slots aren't about gambling... You're going to get the worst odds you can imagine. What you will get is entertainment value that makes you feel you took a vacation somewhere different for a day.

My feeling is that I'd be less apt to make a special trip to a Station Square based property with slots as the sole purpose, and I'd be more apt to swing by an 'Uptown' slots parlor for 15-30 minutes to kill time before an Arena event and make it a rendevous place to meet up with friends.
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Postby ExPatriatePen on Sat Feb 25, 2006 12:37 pm

bill from turtle creek wrote:Before it gets that far, we just need to have Onorato make sure that whomever wins, sends a large chunk of money towards an arena.


It all depends on the legallity of 'side efforts'.

If the courts deem that the law doesn't allow for 'sweetners' IoC, the Pens, and the City of Pittsburgh are going to be stuck with FC.

In that case, I'd like someone to explore the possibility of a regional 'slots tax' of say 1% to fund the new Arena.
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Postby bill from turtle creek on Sat Feb 25, 2006 12:47 pm

Well, then we can all sit around and wonder about how much influence Rendell has with the state judiciary. And if it got appealed to Federal Court? Mrs. Rendell is a judge on the Third Circuit Court of Appeals. Ha! More grist for our postings.
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Postby spi on Sat Feb 25, 2006 12:53 pm

The local leaders really screwed up back in 2004 when the state was doling out money directly out of the slots for specific projects. Philly got a ton of money and Pittsburgh got money for the Airport debt and the convention center debt and no leader was willing to step up to the plate and say that there shoudl be at least some money for an arena. I got into an email war with state senator Sean Logan over this and thanks to a lot of you he may have regretted it. Unfortunately he found out about this board and came here and started ripping on me to the board. He really showed why politicians are two faced dirt bags.

To me he basically said who cares about the pens and that if Mario wants a new barn he should find private money.

Kind of ironic how all this has played out. All in all, the local leaders screwed up big in 2004 by not stating what they are saying now...Pittsburgh needs an arena and it should be funded by whoever gets the license. The time to make that law has come and gone.
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Postby ExPatriatePen on Sat Feb 25, 2006 3:33 pm

spi wrote: The time to make that law has come and gone.


Not neccessarily. That's were this Barden challenge maybe headed.
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Postby MKRA on Sat Feb 25, 2006 3:47 pm

ExPatriate Pen, I haven't been to LV. You sniffed me out. And you make a good point. My counter is that this is different than LV because (a) there'd be no competition, and (b) there will be only slots. If there were 10 slots parlors with a one mile radius, then presentation, amenities, etc. would be important, sure. But with no competition, I wonder still: How different will revenues ultimately be, regardless of the applicant/plan? I don't doubt they could be different, I just don't know why. And I wonder whether the Gaming Board should/need rely on estimations set forth by applicants.
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Postby ExPatriatePen on Sat Feb 25, 2006 5:56 pm

MKRA wrote:ExPatriate Pen, I haven't been to LV. You sniffed me out. And you make a good point. My counter is that this is different than LV because (a) there'd be no competition, and (b) there will be only slots. If there were 10 slots parlors with a one mile radius, then presentation, amenities, etc. would be important, sure. But with no competition, I wonder still: How different will revenues ultimately be, regardless of the applicant/plan?


Excellent point. There will be another parlor down in Washington PA at the Meadows. But you being up a good point that the impact wil be lessend due to the lack of direct competition.

MKRA wrote: I don't doubt they could be different, I just don't know why. And I wonder whether the Gaming Board should/need rely on estimations set forth by applicants.


Estimates by applicatins is fine. But they shouldn't be the final word. The state needs to audit these estimates with a very critical eye.
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