Madden/Benz report Pens Patrol member suspended...

[Jan]

She's suspended...so it's acceptable for the guys but not for the girl?

[wallflower]

Are they thinking about the total bodily fluid exchange and history
of all of their fluids with girl's history?
How awkard if a paternity test is needed.

doesn't anyone think to say , no thanks!

No kidding. That was my reaction, just...yuck. And I'm not sure which I find more gross - the fact that she was with half the team or that half the team was okay with being with her...

Then again, I suppose this is another one to file under "I'll never understand guys" for me...

[Pitts]

The players may have been fined. We don't know.

[Jerri]

Unfortunately, with today's teen and 20's age group girls, I think this IS the norm!

Well, I'm 27 and that wasn't the norm 10 years ago, but who knows. It's really sad actually.

[Jamie]

They are all consenting adults, so no biggie in my book. I remember what it was like to be 18

Yes they all are consenting adults and they are also all disgusting.

I don't recall screwing the majority of a sports team when I was 18 and I don't recall that being the norm or acceptable either.

This girl is mentally ill and the players are disgusting.

Well if you could step down off of your soap box for a second. Is it any of my business. HMMM no it is not. Is it any of your business. HMMMM no it is not. And for you to say the girls is mentally ill without even knowing her, says alot about yourself. But go ahead and continue to judge people you don't even know. This kind of stuff goes on ALL the time. I can remeber a certain PENS player being accused of rape, after an incident involving HOOTERS girls in a hotel room. I pay to see the players perform on the ice. I could care less what they do off of it as long as it legal, and no laws are broken.

[letsgopens87]

Is there a rule in their contract or something that says they can't have "relations" with the players?

[spoon]

It's not going to be in a van... it'll be in the garage... with the keg.

Exactly. you know how hard it is to fit a kegerator and beer pong table into a van. SHEESH.

[Jerri]

. Is it any of my business. HMMM no it is not. Is it any of your business. HMMMM no it is not.

It may not be our business but it is being broadcast over the media and therefore is a topic of public comment. That's just the reality of the situation.

And for you to say the girls is mentally ill without even knowing her, says alot about yourself.

Healthy, well-adjusted peolpe do not allow themselves to be devalued, humiliated and used as a communal fluid receptical for professional athletes. And decent men would not want to have anything to do with such a person. For you not to think there is something seriously disturbing about the situation says alot about you as well. It may not be illegal but it is certainly a sad commentary on the state of things.

[spoon]

Healthy, well-adjusted people do not allow themselves to be devalued, humiliated and used as a communal fluid receptical for professional athletes.

What about Anna Benson?

[Jesse]

Is there a rule in their contract or something that says they can't have "relations" with the players?

When I spoke to my friend at school... the way she spoke it seems as if it had become a sort of game, almost.

She specifically mentioned that all the girls were talking about it, some apalled, some intrigued.

[ExPatriatePen]

Well if you could step down off of your soap box for a second. Is it any of my business. HMMM no it is not. Is it any of your business. HMMMM no it is not.

Having an opinion and expressing it doesn't violate any laws does it? If it does you can arrest half this board. Besides it looks like you have a 'soap box' of your own.

And for you to say the girls is mentally ill without even knowing her, says alot about yourself.

Well, turn the argument around... would you say that a girl who has sex with 'half the team' is well balanced? Would you be happy if you found out your mother had done this when she was 18? Would you be happy to know your daughter was doing this? Your sister?

I think it's pretty reasonable to say the girl has unresolved 'issues', whether or not you want to characterize it as a 'mental issue' or not.

But go ahead and continue to judge people you don't even know.

Excuse me, but are you casting the first stone here? So you're saying you don't judge people you don't know? What's your opinion on Tayna Harding? Bill O'Connor? Gov. Rendell? etc....? Or do you know those people?

Everyone judges people they 'don't know'. I can let you borrow a step ladder if you need help getting off that high-horse.

This kind of stuff goes on ALL the time. I can remeber a certain PENS player being accused of rape, after an incident involving HOOTERS girls in a hotel room.

Yes his name was Dan Quinn and the charges were found to be extrememly trumped up... what's your point? The fact that if it's happened before that makes it OK? Please.

I pay to see the players perform on the ice. I could care less what they do off of it as long as it legal, and no laws are broken.

Maybe I'm old school, but I still like my players to be people I can respect off the ice as well.

I hope this girl gets some counsling. I also hope the Pens players involved are atleast given a good talking too. It's unfortunate in this society that a girl who sleeps with multiple partners is considered 'easy' while a guy is considered a stud. But that doesn't make it right. Next thing you know one of the players will rent a party boat and fly in girls from other cities... no wait, that was done last year in Minnesota... lets's not let the Pens be known for such behavior as well.

[dboss]

Unfortunately, with today's teen and 20's age group girls, I think this IS the norm!

Well, I'm 27 and that wasn't the norm 10 years ago, but who knows. It's really sad actually.

Sorry, I'm 28 and I can think of 5 stories from high school off the top of my head related to incidents like this. This happens A LOT more than people care to think about as I also have friends that have participated in acts like this from different areas of Pittsburgh. Just because its not publicized in the media all the time doesn't mean it rarely happens. To be honest I couldn't careless. They are all adults and they have to live with the decisions they made so I don't see how that affects myself or anyone I know. What if a bunch of UPS drivers got together on their own free time, had a party, and this transpired as well? Is that anyone's business? Not at all, but this gets amplified because members of sports teams make millions of $$$ and the public expects all of them to have Mario Lemieux like moral qualities. IMHO this is a problem with public perception of sports figures and people trying to impose their morals on other individuals. The big problem is that morals are defined by different people differently.

[FallenHero96]

. Is it any of my business. HMMM no it is not. Is it any of your business. HMMMM no it is not.

It may not be our business but it is being broadcast over the media and therefore is a topic of public comment. That's just the reality of the situation.

And for you to say the girls is mentally ill without even knowing her, says alot about yourself.

Healthy, well-adjusted peolpe do not allow themselves to be devalued, humiliated and used as a communal fluid receptical for professional athletes. And decent men would not want to have anything to do with such a person. For you not to think there is something seriously disturbing about the situation says alot about you as well. It may not be illegal but it is certainly a sad commentary on the state of things.

Im with Jerri, there is something mentally wrong with this girl.... or maybe she is just trash.

[Pitts]

. Is it any of my business. HMMM no it is not. Is it any of your business. HMMMM no it is not.

It may not be our business but it is being broadcast over the media and therefore is a topic of public comment. That's just the reality of the situation.

And for you to say the girls is mentally ill without even knowing her, says alot about yourself.

Healthy, well-adjusted peolpe do not allow themselves to be devalued, humiliated and used as a communal fluid receptical for professional athletes. And decent men would not want to have anything to do with such a person. For you not to think there is something seriously disturbing about the situation says alot about you as well. It may not be illegal but it is certainly a sad commentary on the state of things.

Im with Jerri, there is something mentally wrong with this girl.... or maybe she is just trash.

More like, she thought one of them would marry her and she'd be set for life.

[Jamie]

Well if you could step down off of your soap box for a second. Is it any of my business. HMMM no it is not. Is it any of your business. HMMMM no it is not.

Having an opinion and expressing it doesn't violate any laws does it? If it does you can arrest half this board. Besides it looks like you have a 'soap box' of your own.

And for you to say the girls is mentally ill without even knowing her, says alot about yourself.

Well, turn the argument around... would you say that a girl who has sex with 'half the team' is well balanced? Would you be happy if you found out your mother had done this when she was 18? Would you be happy to know your daughter was doing this? Your sister?

I think it's pretty reasonable to say the girl has unresolved 'issues', whether or not you want to characterize it as a 'mental issue' or not.

But go ahead and continue to judge people you don't even know.

Excuse me, but are you casting the first stone here? So you're saying you don't judge people you don't know? What's your opinion on Tayna Harding? Bill O'Connor? Gov. Rendell? etc....? Or do you know those people?

Everyone judges people they 'don't know'. I can let you borrow a step ladder if you need help getting off that high-horse.

This kind of stuff goes on ALL the time. I can remeber a certain PENS player being accused of rape, after an incident involving HOOTERS girls in a hotel room.

Yes his name was Dan Quinn and the charges were found to be extrememly trumped up... what's your point? The fact that if it's happened before that makes it OK? Please.

I pay to see the players perform on the ice. I could care less what they do off of it as long as it legal, and no laws are broken.

Maybe I'm old school, but I still like my players to be people I can respect off the ice as well.

I hope this girl gets some counsling. I also hope the Pens players involved are atleast given a good talking too. It's unfortunate in this society that a girl who sleeps with multiple partners is considered 'easy' while a guy is considered a stud. But that doesn't make it right. Next thing you know one of the players will rent a party boat and fly in girls from other cities... no wait, that was done last year in Minnesota... lets's not let the Pens be known for such behavior as well.[/quot


As far as Rendell and Oconnor. They are politicians, always in the limelight. Everyone has the right to judge a politician, because they work for WE THE PEOPLE. There are also two side two every story, have we heard hers? Before you judge her as some kind of whore or mental incompetent, maybe we should wait to hear her side of the story. Yeah I want my coach having a good talking to with me about the girls I choose to see, or have "relations" with. LOL. Will you get off of the ladder first in order to let me borrow it, or shall I climb up with you? I will reiterate once again, what happened between this girl and the players is nobody's business but their own, they are consenting adults. And where do you get the fact, I have an issue with the expression of an opinion? As far as the Dan Quinn thing, I was just pointing out that this is not the first time in PENS history this kind of thing has happened.

[Jerri]

IMHO this is a problem with public perception of sports figures and people trying to impose their morals on other individuals. The big problem is that morals are defined by different people differently.

I don't consider myself a huge moralist and I am not religious in the slightest. I just find the story upsetting. I hate seeing instances of my gender being devalued. I hate to think that there are girls out there who have such little respect for themselves and I hate to think there are men out there who will take advantage of it. It's just disappointing.

[ExPatriatePen]

As far as Rendell and Oconnor. They are politicians, always in the limelight. Everyone has the right to judge a politician, because they work for WE THE PEOPLE. There are also two side two every story, have we heard hers? Before you judge her as some kind of whore or mental incompetent, maybe we should wait to hear her side of the story. Yeah I want my coach having a good talking to with me about the girls I choose to see, or have "relations" with. LOL. Will you get off of the ladder first in order to let me borrow it, or shall I climb up with you? I will reiterate once again, what happened between this girl and the players is nobody's business but their own, they are consenting adults. And where do you get the fact, I have an issue with the expression of an opinion? As far as the Dan Quinn thing, I was just pointing out that this is not the first time in PENS history this kind of thing has happened.

"Always in the limelight" you mean like someone who's job is entertainment? Like a Sports figure or Pens Patrol ?

By the way, I find it interesting that you're the first person to use the word 'whore' in describing this girls actions.

I wonder if you'd feel differently about the 'talk' to these players if it was etermined that the girl had an STD (if you don't know, STD's are exchanged through sexual contact, the more partners you have, the more likely you are to contract an STD)

Also, you brought up the Dan Quinn hotel incident, what?, 15 years after the fact? Is that how you want this team remembered? Not me.

I also found it interesting how you completely avoided my questions about how you'd feel if this were your mother, sister, or daughter.

[Jamie]

As far as Rendell and Oconnor. They are politicians, always in the limelight. Everyone has the right to judge a politician, because they work for WE THE PEOPLE. There are also two side two every story, have we heard hers? Before you judge her as some kind of whore or mental incompetent, maybe we should wait to hear her side of the story. Yeah I want my coach having a good talking to with me about the girls I choose to see, or have "relations" with. LOL. Will you get off of the ladder first in order to let me borrow it, or shall I climb up with you? I will reiterate once again, what happened between this girl and the players is nobody's business but their own, they are consenting adults. And where do you get the fact, I have an issue with the expression of an opinion? As far as the Dan Quinn thing, I was just pointing out that this is not the first time in PENS history this kind of thing has happened.

"Always in the limelight" you mean like someone who's job is entertainment? Like a Sports figure or Pens Patrol ?

By the way, I find it interesting that you're the first person to use the word 'whore' in describing this girls actions.

I wonder if you'd feel differently about the 'talk' to these players if it was etermined that the girl had an STD (if you don't know, STD's are exchanged through sexual contact, the more partners you have, the more likely you are to contract an STD)

Also, you brought up the Dan Quinn hotel incident, what?, 15 years after the fact? Is that how you want this team remembered? Not me.

I also found it interesting how you completely avoided my questions about how you'd feel if this were your mother, sister, or daughter.

As far as the Dan Quinn thing, I brought up a hotel instance, YOU are the one that identified Quinn, not me. And you make my point, it happend 15 years ago, how many times do you think it has happened since?

If it were my sister or mother, again it is none of my business. We are all adults and have decisions to make, it does not mean that someoen is has a mental deficiency to have "relations". Don't patronize me either, I know what an STD is and how it is transmitted, but thanks for the websters definition And don't pretend that people on this board have not already "labelled" her a whore before I typed the word. If you believe that then you are naive. "Always in the limelight". This girl is hardly in the limelight. Now I will ask you a question. Do you think it is fair to label her as having a meantal deficiency on what we know so far, wothout having ALL of the details or hearing her side?

[Pitts]

As far as the Dan Quinn thing, I brought up a hotel instance, YOU are the one that identified Quinn, not me. And you make my point, it happend 15 years ago, how many times do you think it has happened since?

Well, there was the Nedved Vancouver incident, one with Barrasso at Station Square (that may have just been a bar fight though) and there was the Slegr incident in Wilkes Barre for starters. Unfortunately, **** happens all the time.

[Jerri]

We are all adults and have decisions to make, it does not mean that someoen is has a mental deficiency to have "relations".

To have relations with the majority of a sports team necessarily implies a mental deficiency. It is like negligence per se only as applied to headcases - "the act stands for itself".

Do you think it is fair to label her as having a meantal deficiency on what we know so far, wothout having ALL of the details or hearing her side?

I cannot think of a single explanation that can exonerate this kind of behavior or make what she did reasonable. I would love to hear you try to come up with one though.

[Jamie]

We are all adults and have decisions to make, it does not mean that someoen is has a mental deficiency to have "relations".

To have relations with the majority of a sports team necessarily implies a mental deficiency. It is like negligence per se only as applied to headcases - "the act stands for itself".

Do you think it is fair to label her as having a meantal deficiency on what we know so far, wothout having ALL of the details or hearing her side?

I cannot think of a single explanation that can exonerate this kind of behavior or make what she did reasonable. I would love to hear you try to come up with one though.

My point is YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT HAPPENDED, and have labelled her as a head case. You have a right to your opionion. Having numerous partners does not mean you have a mental defect. You do not even know how long this has been going on or the exact number of people involved. All you know is what Madden and Benz were joking about. But we all know what they say is 100% accurate all of the time. I am not trying to exonerate her behavior, I am simpy stating you are judging her prematurley. But as I said before, it is no biggie.

[dboss]

IMHO this is a problem with public perception of sports figures and people trying to impose their morals on other individuals. The big problem is that morals are defined by different people differently.

I don't consider myself a huge moralist and I am not religious in the slightest. I just find the story upsetting. I hate seeing instances of my gender being devalued. I hate to think that there are girls out there who have such little respect for themselves and I hate to think there are men out there who will take advantage of it. It's just disappointing.

To have relations with the majority of a sports team necessarily implies a mental deficiency. It is like negligence per se only as applied to headcases - "the act stands for itself".

I cannot think of a single explanation that can exonerate this kind of behavior or make what she did reasonable. I would love to hear you try to come up with one though.

I actually find it laughable that you have no facts other than what Mark Madden and Tim Benz mentioned on the radio and already you are saying that 'the big bad man' took advantage of this girl and labeling the entire situation. Why is it always the guys fault? If this girl was willing to have sex with half the team, how are the men taking advantage of her? Because 'she has such little self-respect' for herself? The truth of the matter is that there are members of both sexes that will sleep with as many people as possible. The reason your 'gender is devalued' is because people label someone like this girl as having mental issues just because they can't rationalize in their own mind what she did. All because someone of your gender couldn't possibly have the mental capacity to think this through rationally and understand what she was doing (sarcasm).

Also, who are you to judge her and her actions? Why should anyone have to answer to you and justify what she did as 'reasonable'?

[dboss]

We are all adults and have decisions to make, it does not mean that someoen is has a mental deficiency to have "relations".

To have relations with the majority of a sports team necessarily implies a mental deficiency. It is like negligence per se only as applied to headcases - "the act stands for itself".

Do you think it is fair to label her as having a meantal deficiency on what we know so far, wothout having ALL of the details or hearing her side?

I cannot think of a single explanation that can exonerate this kind of behavior or make what she did reasonable. I would love to hear you try to come up with one though.

how does it necessarily imply a mental deficiency?
it may imply a moral deficiency, but morality is subjective and who is anyone here to pass moral judgement on anyone else?

Exactly what I have been saying Ziggy!

[Jamie]

We are all adults and have decisions to make, it does not mean that someoen is has a mental deficiency to have "relations".

To have relations with the majority of a sports team necessarily implies a mental deficiency. It is like negligence per se only as applied to headcases - "the act stands for itself".

Do you think it is fair to label her as having a meantal deficiency on what we know so far, wothout having ALL of the details or hearing her side?

I cannot think of a single explanation that can exonerate this kind of behavior or make what she did reasonable. I would love to hear you try to come up with one though.

how does it necessarily imply a mental deficiency?
it may imply a moral deficiency, but morality is subjective and who is anyone here to pass moral judgement on anyone else?

Thank you Ziggy, and DBoss. This is the message I have been trying to get across.

[Jerri]

I actually find it laughable that you have no facts other than what Mark Madden and Tim Benz mentioned on the radio and already you are saying that 'the big bad man' took advantage of this girl and labeling the entire situation. Why is it always the guys fault? If this girl was willing to have sex with half the team, how are the men taking advantage of her? Because 'she has such little self-respect' for herself? The truth of the matter is that there are members of both sexes that will sleep with as many people as possible. The reason your 'gender is devalued' is because people label someone like this girl as having mental issues just because they can't rationalize in their own mind what she did. All because someone of your gender couldn't possibly have the mental capacity to think this through rationally and understand what she was doing (sarcasm).

Also, who are you to judge her and her actions? Why should anyone have to answer to you and justify what she did as 'reasonable'?

You boys must have had one too many tumbles in the hay with disreputable women to be so defensive.


It is completely obvious that I am operating solely on what was said on the radio - DUH! We are operating under assumed facts. They may be right or wrong it doesn't really matter the debate is still relevant because this stuff happens all the time.

I am not blaming men solely, which I thought was totally obvious but apparently not to you. This girl shoulders the majority of the blame and ultimately will suffer the majority of the consequences.

Maybe from your end you think this is all harmless fun for the girl but you need to be more mature in your analysis. This girl will forever be dogged by this experience. No one will take her seriously, no one will respect her, no decent man will want to be in a realtionship with her. And she will have major emotional wounds once she realize that she was passed around like a used pin cushion - these guys laughed at her, shared her, had no respect for her, that is not all in good fun. It is sick.

A healthy person would never want to be disrespected in such a way - shared by a group of men and passed around for their amusement. Decent men should be repulsed by the situation as well and stay away. Maybe once they grow up a little....