MT looked like a genius in the AHL..

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MT looked like a genius in the AHL..

Postby Scott on Sat Mar 04, 2006 11:33 pm

In the AHL most of the teams dont use a system. They try to get their players to polish their offensive or defenseive game,,,or both.

They dont play trap hockey system religiously in the AHL. Teams use that time to see if their players are going to blossom into a sniper, Power play quarter back, etc etc...

MT used a system and that is why he had so much success.

Well his system,(and that is a disrespect to the word system)...
YA KNOW...I am not sure what to even call this THING that is on the ice.

I called for this guy to come in as EDZO clearly was lost as well...but I was dead wrong on MT.

After watching this garbage for this long it is evident that he is a poor coach.

THE most important BAND-AID for a poor defense is puck possesion. We actually have the guys to do this, but MT's "system?!?" although preaches puck possesion, actually bears NONE!

Dump and sometimes chase? Almost 90 percent of the shifts.

Mental mistakes all the time. WHY DOES MT CONSTANTLY SAY ABOUT THE MENTAL BREAK DOWNS?
That is his baby. He cant make a player skate faster. He cant make him stronger.
HE CAN IN FACT fix the cerebral element of the game. He doesnt. He points fingers after a game stating out of position, the dumb penalty....yet that is 100 percent his fault. Every single loss all we hear about is the foolish penalty, skating hard, etc.
He cant help Koltsov get a pair of hands, or Oullette take the Crosby pass, but he can teach positioning etc etc.

How about this MT after a game; It is my fault that Orpik isnt getting his positioning down on the PK, or that Whitney has no idea when to pinch and gamble a little. Crosby is our best player but I wont let him play more than 40 seconds on the PP.


MT will never be more than a coach that posted some good numbers in the AHL, due to playing a system that most other teams arent prepared for.
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Postby Redlight on Sun Mar 05, 2006 12:06 am

Great post Scott. My thoughts exactly - can't say that I disagree with anything you've said there.
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Re: MT looked like a genius in the AHL..

Postby NIN on Sun Mar 05, 2006 12:31 am

Scott wrote:In the AHL most of the teams dont use a system. They try to get their players to polish their offensive or defenseive game,,,or both.

They dont play trap hockey system religiously in the AHL. Teams use that time to see if their players are going to blossom into a sniper, Power play quarter back, etc etc...

MT used a system and that is why he had so much success.


I certainly don't waste time studying AHL systems but I know for a fact that in the world of proffessional hockey you either have a system or you get your ass beat every game. Players have to know where each other is, they have to understand their roles on the ice or they will be running into each other all game and passing to nobody every shift.

A system is nothing more then a predetermined series of tasks and responsibilities that are relied upon every game. Game planning will often tweak assignments and styles are changed depending upon the success of the system.Therrian does very little in the way of tweaking his system and it may not be the best style of hockey for the perssonel at his disposal.


I certainly don't know of a better one do you? We may as well let them get use to something because I promise you that whatever changes he makes to the system the opposing coaches will counter it with ALOT of success. Edzo did alot of tweaking and it never worked. The reason is because the collection of players currently employed by the Pittsburgh Penguins organization suck. They are either undertalented, inexperianced, getting old, or a combination of two of the three.

Also, many of the Penguins younger players have developed their game to the point where the organization is loaded with NHL potential. They got better then they were acouple of years ago by playing within Therrian's scheme. Play wide open reckless run and gun hockey all you want but when your players get to the NHL they will lose with that style there as they did in the AHL. Trap systems are very important to learn and the Baby Pens have also learned how to beat their opponents trap systems as well, which is just as important. Trap systems do not limit offenseive chances, they simply limit floaters on your team. I also think that is a good thing.
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Mt in my own opinion is a n ahl coach.

Postby joeypens on Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:20 am

It really wasn't ezdo's fault, for the parent pens are in money problems, and he was dealt the card he was given.

Mt - brought most of our guys up to your team, some weren't ready, others needed to be up, for they earn it.

Mt has always been a fine ahl coach, but to me will never make it up in the nhl.

I feel he toook the wbs job, knowing he might get a shot at the head coaching job in pittsburgh.

Mt had money coming from montreal, so he coach our wbs pens, and did one fine job.

We love him here, and wish he was back.

Joey Mullen who was one fine player, isn;t the motivator mt was here.

We support you guys, but some feel we got the bad end of the stick, with so many callups, but this is life in the minors.

I will support any team here in wbs, here rumors the rangers wish to come if the wbs pens move out, as the phantoms as well.

But for now, the pens are here in 1st place, and soon our guys will be back for the playoffs.

Have to admit, ezdo wasn;t again the problem, money is the issue here, pisttburgh must do everything on the issue of money.
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Re: Mt in my own opinion is a n ahl coach.

Postby ExPatriatePen on Sun Mar 05, 2006 9:11 am

joeypens wrote:Have to admit, ezdo wasn;t again the problem, money is the issue here, pisttburgh must do everything on the issue of money.


So does that mean you've written the Gov ans your State Reps's on the issue of the IoC license application? :-)
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Postby Zscout on Sun Mar 05, 2006 9:53 am

My impression ot MT.
His style works well in the AHL. Players will respond because they need ice time. They need ice time to get the opportunities to put up points and get noticed. MT uses his my way or the highway approach to keep players in line.
In the NHL, he does not have the ability to manipulate players who are established. He came up and never had the team buy into his "High Noon" approach to leadership. He failed to effectively use the leadership in the locker room and the team responded poorly.
Interesting note: most of the callups, were playing better under Edzo and have dissapeared under MT. Look at Christianson, Oulette, Whitney, Hussey, Talbot, and Fleury. That is totally unexpected and that may the biggest point for firing MT at the end of the season.
The worse of this, the Pens lost one heck of an AHL coach and will need to get an experienced successfull NHL coach, that they can not easily afford. Coaching is so important in rebuilding with a younger team.
Last edited by Zscout on Mon Mar 06, 2006 6:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Mad City Mike on Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:29 am

Couldn't have said it better myself. One look at the PK tells you all you need to know about his coaching smarts. He had a week of minicamp, but the positional play is as bad as ever. Who would have thought I'd be clamoring for Randy Hillier's PK? But it was way better than this disaster. Bottom line is, this was just another botched coaching hire by the clueless GM.
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Postby Scott on Sun Mar 05, 2006 11:26 am

Mad City Mike wrote:Couldn't have said it better myself. One look at the PK tells you all you need to know about his coaching smarts. He had a week of minicamp, but the positional play is as bad as ever. Who would have thought I'd be clamoring for Randy Hillier's PK? But it was way better than this disaster. Bottom line is, this was just another botched coaching hire by the clueless GM.



You are right MCM and here is a scary thought...MT having all pre-season camps to implement his (cough cough) "system". Yikes. He is ruining these young guys right before our eyes.

As for NIN,,,we all know the definition of a system as so often you go the Webster dictionary route, but if he cant teach better positioning after all this time, can you really say that he can teach a productive system?
I never called for free wheel hockey as you have to play with some strategy, but this strangling type of system right now is the worst thing that can happen to our young Pens. I can guarantee you that these kids will never realize their potential,defensemen included, under this current style of THING we keep playing.
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Postby NIN on Sun Mar 05, 2006 11:54 am

If Scotty Bowman were here coaching this team right now, arguably the greatest coach ever, this team would still suck. If Bob (rest his soul) Johnson coached this team they would still suck. If Herb (rest his soul) coached this team they would still suck. If Al (did he die too?) Arbour coached this team they would still suck.

Therrian is not a Hall of Fame coach and guess what? They still suck.

See there is this little place called "REALITY" that I visit on a daily basis. In this world, if you have a team comprised of rookies, players past their prime, and a below average talent pool: you suck. It is a cold harsh reality for some, for others it is dismissed as common sense.

They sucked under Ed Olczyk and they suck just as much under Micheal Therrian. Can you see this trend? It's called the PLAYERS SUCK. Therefore the entire TEAM sucks.

Al Arbour coached some very very very bad teams in his career before producing a 4 time Stanley Cup winning dynasty. He never changed his system. Before the Cup teams they played Islander hockey but the talent wasn't there. After the dynasty the talanet declined but the system remained. Eventually Arbour left too but not because4 he did'nt do his job.
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Postby Scott on Sun Mar 05, 2006 12:20 pm

NIN wrote:If Scotty Bowman were here coaching this team right now, arguably the greatest coach ever, this team would still suck. If Bob (rest his soul) Johnson coached this team they would still suck. If Herb (rest his soul) coached this team they would still suck. If Al (did he die too?) Arbour coached this team they would still suck.

Therrian is not a Hall of Fame coach and guess what? They still suck.

See there is this little place called "REALITY" that I visit on a daily basis. In this world, if you have a team comprised of rookies, players past their prime, and a below average talent pool: you suck. It is a cold harsh reality for some, for others it is dismissed as common sense.

They sucked under Ed Olczyk and they suck just as much under Micheal Therrian. Can you see this trend? It's called the PLAYERS SUCK. Therefore the entire TEAM sucks.

Al Arbour coached some very very very bad teams in his career before producing a 4 time Stanley Cup winning dynasty. He never changed his system. Before the Cup teams they played Islander hockey but the talent wasn't there. After the dynasty the talanet declined but the system remained. Eventually Arbour left too but not because4 he did'nt do his job.


Then you should visit reality more often as your balance is off, umm, just a tad..

How can you say that if Bowman, or Badger, Brooks couldnt have this team winning?
You do this everytime NIN. You quote the extreme when the extreme was never stated.

I NEVER SAID A DIFFERENT COACH WAS GOING TO NET US THE STANLEY CUP THIS YEAR.

You can't say what this team would do under a different leader. It is only specualtion on your part, and a very bad one.

I wonder what your definition of reality is. Dont grab the Websters,,I know you have a holster for it but just dont grab it.

No great coach can make a player more phisically gifted. They can teach proper hockey positioning and strategy. If Orpik is at the optimum spot, but gets out muscled, well that is not the coach. If Recchi gets beat to a loose puck by a faster guy, that is not coaching.

WHEN YOUR PLAYERS RUN AROUND LIKE A CHINESE FIRE DRILL and have no idea where their teamate is, IT IS OUR CURRENT COACHING. To say that Badger and Brooks, or Bowman couldnt have this team playing better cerebral hockey is pure specualtion, actually it is ignorance.

They may not have made the playoffs with a different coach, but I guarantee you that a different coach would have these guys playing more sound hockey, offensivley and defensivley.
Atleast a coach who can recognize that what/how he is teaching is not sinking in. A coach who will find a way to reach certain players in what the objective is.
Players are all different. Just like in life, their learning curve differs from each other.
A coach is nothing more than a leader/teacher. The good ones dont make excuses or point fingers(MT's habbit) they find ways to reach EACH player they have.
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where do you write to get that application.

Postby joeypens on Sun Mar 05, 2006 12:38 pm

if the casino comes in, the pens have the cash then, if not, they are in money problems, and may never get out.

sad to see this happen, but the real problem is the management not the players or the coaches.

patrick must go, and get a better gm, if the afford it.
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Postby NIN on Sun Mar 05, 2006 12:58 pm

How can you say that if Bowman, or Badger, Brooks couldnt have this team winning?


Because the team sucks.

I NEVER SAID A DIFFERENT COACH WAS GOING TO NET US THE STANLEY CUP THIS YEAR.


Neither did I. I think Therrian has what it takes to be a Stanley Cup winning coach. The talent has'nt arrived yet. Give it time. He is still improving as a coach too because he is very young for a head coach and there is always more to learn.

They can teach proper hockey positioning and strategy.


I see players that are slow to react because they unconfident not out of position. The second goal last night comes to mind. The player was AHEAD of the guy breaking in but he could'nt turn and keep up with him and so he got beat. He did'nt take a bad penalty but he probably should have. Pointmen don't break to the net unless they are 100%.

WHEN YOUR PLAYERS RUN AROUND LIKE A CHINESE FIRE DRILL and have no idea where their teamate is, IT IS OUR CURRENT COACHING.


No it is because they suck and can't keep up with great skating teams very often. Although how about the play of the World Unite line with Surovy/Rita/Koltsov the past two games! What a great move finding that line, they are the best on the team right now!

A coach who will find a way to reach certain players in what the objective is.


A coach is nothing more than a leader/teacher. The good ones dont make excuses or point fingers(MT's habbit) they find ways to reach EACH player they have.


Like how Ouellete,Armstrong,Whitney, and Christensen praised Therrian for the renewed understanding they have of the game. How Therrian genuinely cares for his team and isnt trying to win a popularity contest buy belitteing them just because they are young and inexperianced. How Therrian has put faith in the youth of this franchise and has accelerated the learning curve by being a stern leader. He treats everybody equally and like adults but he gets angry and will let the whole world know that he sees what the rest of the world sees. That reality is difficult for some to understand but it is plain as day for those who know hockey.

Whitney is 6'4" 215lbs. and is afraid to pursue the puck late in a game because a smaller player has a bead on him and will crush him into the boards, so he pulls up and lets him have the puck behind the net in his own end. Is that the kind of player you want on your team? Do you think you can win a Cup one day with that kind of attitude? If the coach doesnt make him accountable do you think he will one day just decide to play better all on his own?
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Postby Scott on Sun Mar 05, 2006 1:18 pm

Yet again, talking to the wall named NIN.

Is Whitney the kind of player and attitude that we want?

Well, given that he is in fact part of this team, it would be my job as a coach to help him learn what he really needs to do.

Not just criticisize in public and say "he should be doing this" "he should be doing that". Yeah WE ALL GET THAT MT...it is your job to make him understand how to do that, and when to do that. That is what is not happening.
TO say the new line is such a positive...well, all I can say is it is about time. Lets hang our hat on the fact that they found a combo that works...lol...wait for a few games.

You can tell a child whatever you want, but until you TEACH that child he or she wont know any different.

Bottom line, you think MT is a good coach. I KNOW MT is a lousy teacher.

MT needs to start holding himself accountable and FIND A WAY TO REACH in the heads of these young players.

Remember this NIN, most coaches can win with an all star roster...the good coaches get players to over-achieve. HOW? They find a way to reach ALL of their players.

*YAWN
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Postby NIN on Sun Mar 05, 2006 1:42 pm

Your missing the point. It is a matter of motivation by getting that players attention. When you were in Reading Comprehension class im sure the teacher did'nt make you stand in front of the class and read your "F" paper so the whole class would know how bad you sucked. NO NO your mom would have called in ******** (just like you are doing with this thread) and there would have been tears and everything. If that teacher DID make you humiliate yourself by forcing your sucky ass reading/writing skills on the entire class you would have made it a point not to ever allow yourself to be put in that position again. You would have paid more attention and studied harder and maybe (although in your case it would have been hopeless) even gotten a "C' one day.

Whitney knew he was suppose to pursue that puck. Therrian knew it and everybody in the whole world knew but he did'nt do it and so now he should be made accoutnable so he will GET BETTER and do the things that his teammates, fans, and coaches expect of him throughout his career as long and great as it should be. It is called tough love, father figure stuff. If it were me I would have Whitney dressed up like a little girl and make him carry a big lolly pop everywhere he went and then beat him with wiffle ball bats until he understood.
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Postby Scott on Sun Mar 05, 2006 5:27 pm

NIN wrote:Your missing the point. It is a matter of motivation by getting that players attention. When you were in Reading Comprehension class im sure the teacher did'nt make you stand in front of the class and read your "F" paper so the whole class would know how bad you sucked. NO NO your mom would have called in ******** (just like you are doing with this thread) and there would have been tears and everything. If that teacher DID make you humiliate yourself by forcing your sucky ass reading/writing skills on the entire class you would have made it a point not to ever allow yourself to be put in that position again. You would have paid more attention and studied harder and maybe (although in your case it would have been hopeless) even gotten a "C' one day.

Whitney knew he was suppose to pursue that puck. Therrian knew it and everybody in the whole world knew but he did'nt do it and so now he should be made accoutnable so he will GET BETTER and do the things that his teammates, fans, and coaches expect of him throughout his career as long and great as it should be. It is called tough love, father figure stuff. If it were me I would have Whitney dressed up like a little girl and make him carry a big lolly pop everywhere he went and then beat him with wiffle ball bats until he understood.


NO NIN, you miss the point just like always.

You can say all you want about a player should have done this....but until you TEACH HIM over and over and reach that/ those players so they understand what you are trying to have them do...it will be for not.

I coach multiple sports NIN with an outstanding record in all of them. WHY? I teach them! Period.
Thank you, drive thru.
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Postby NIN on Sun Mar 05, 2006 5:54 pm

Scott wrote:NO NIN, you miss the point just like always.

You can say all you want about a player should have done this....but until you TEACH HIM over and over and reach that/ those players so they understand what you are trying to have them do...it will be for not.

I coach multiple sports NIN with an outstanding record in all of them. WHY? I teach them! Period.
Thank you, drive thru.


SO by your logice Whitney doesnt know that he is suppose to go after loose pucks in his own end? These arent squirts Einstein these are aspireing professional athletes. They are not doing what they are being told to do. Can you read in red maybe? They KNOW to do the simple things but they are not. DO they need to relearn at the squirt level all over again? In some cases it would'nt hurt but if that is in fact the case then guess what that means Scott? IT MEANS THEY SUCK! Which is what I have been trying to explain to your illiterate ass for too long now.

Please hold on to your squirt job because McDonalds wouldnt hire you. They hire poeple who can UNDERSTAND what they are READING. But oh yeah this is about you mindlessly ******** about whatever it is you think you are an expert at and here I am just making sound statement after sound statement and backing it up with simple to follow facts and discriptions.
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Postby Bowser on Sun Mar 05, 2006 6:00 pm

None of this matters since the Penguins are for sale. When new ownership comes, they will hire their own people to run the organization. This means a new General Manager, new scouting and development directors, new scouts, and new coaches throughout the organization (NHL-AHL-ECHL).
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Postby Zscout on Mon Mar 06, 2006 6:58 am

NIN wrote:SO by your logice Whitney doesnt know that he is suppose to go after loose pucks in his own end? These arent squirts Einstein these are aspireing professional athletes. They are not doing what they are being told to do. Can you read in red maybe? They KNOW to do the simple things but they are not. DO they need to relearn at the squirt level all over again? In some cases it would'nt hurt but if that is in fact the case then guess what that means Scott?


Wow - you just don't understand leadership do you?
(of course your demeaning comments that follow - are a good indicator of why you like MT)
If Therien was a good leader, the players would be more likely to do what they are supposed to do, told to do, expected to do and play to the whole of their potential.
That is why MT has failed as an NHL coach. He lacks the leadership to coach at this level.
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Postby NIN on Mon Mar 06, 2006 7:03 am

Zscout wrote: If Therien was a good leader, the players would be more likely to do what they are supposed to do, told to do, expected to do and play to the whole of their potential.


Well I just sighted several reasons why Therrian is leading the team, qouteing his own players no less. If you don't want to waste time with facts either then I understand comepletely. there is alot of ******** out there that needs done on alot of issues and somebody has to do it.
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Postby Steve on Mon Mar 06, 2006 9:29 am

I agree that "teaching" these players is critical, especially the young core of talent that we have - but for god's sake, some of the fundamentals that we are failing at, should have been learned during mites hockey!
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Postby Scott on Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:23 am

NIN wrote:
Scott wrote:NO NIN, you miss the point just like always.

You can say all you want about a player should have done this....but until you TEACH HIM over and over and reach that/ those players so they understand what you are trying to have them do...it will be for not.

I coach multiple sports NIN with an outstanding record in all of them. WHY? I teach them! Period.
Thank you, drive thru.


SO by your logice Whitney doesnt know that he is suppose to go after loose pucks in his own end? These arent squirts Einstein these are aspireing professional athletes. They are not doing what they are being told to do. Can you read in red maybe? They KNOW to do the simple things but they are not. DO they need to relearn at the squirt level all over again? In some cases it would'nt hurt but if that is in fact the case then guess what that means Scott? IT MEANS THEY SUCK! Which is what I have been trying to explain to your illiterate ass for too long now.

Please hold on to your squirt job because McDonalds wouldnt hire you. They hire poeple who can UNDERSTAND what they are READING. But oh yeah this is about you mindlessly ******** about whatever it is you think you are an expert at and here I am just making sound statement after sound statement and backing it up with simple to follow facts and discriptions.


NIN, by YOUR logic then professional athletes need no coaching on positioning etc than just a face,,of course since they are Professional.

As far as comprehension, do you have any? I can say that a different coach would have this team better...and YOU THEN SAY no way we will win the stanley cup with this group.
Now class, is that what I typed? No.

Sit back with that pipe and enjoy everyones real knowledge of the game.

Amazing how you claim to know so much yet know nothing.
"whitney is using a stick 2 inches too long"...that was a beauty...LOL..

Players can slump, they can regress, and especially if they are not getting the message will struggle too.

By the way, I am sure I will make more this quarter than you will have for the year.

Keep toking away crackhead.
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Postby NIN on Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:57 am

NIN, by YOUR logic then professional athletes need no coaching on positioning etc than just a face,,of course since they are Professional.


That is correct SCOTT! Holy **** you actually learned something! Attend a Penguin practice. Just one. Anyone at any point during the season. The first thing you will notice is that they are not doing squirt drills. In fact, they will be working on team concpets like 3 on 2 breaks, the power play, and the penalty kill. Hopefully Whitney (this is called an example ) learned how to hit and be hit at a very early age. I know he has learned it because he has done it a few times over his short career. When he chooses not to apply his abilities it is up to the coach to properly motivate and instruct him. Someday a light might go on inside Mr. Whit's skull and he will take his game to another level. That is the thinking behind Therrian's coaching.

I can say that a different coach would have this team better...and YOU THEN SAY no way we will win the stanley cup with this group.


WOW. Public education has trully failed you. :roll: Scroll up ^ and try to break it down into syllables.

"whitney is using a stick 2 inches too long"...that was a beauty...LOL..


Funny. that sounds like something a squirt coach should say to his player?

Players can slump, they can regress, and especially if they are not getting the message will struggle too.


:?: try to focus. I know that ADD is tough to overcome but holy **** you are roaming all over the **** place. Get some meds kid!

By the way, I am sure I will make more this quarter than you will have for the year.


Good for you.

Keep toking away crackhead.


Sadly, most crackheads would make more sense then you too.
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Postby Scott on Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:09 pm

NIN, you are amazing.

Will you ever read something as it is written?

Not by me, but anyone.

You do this with everyone. Everyone gets what they write, but you.

Warm does not mean a flaming inferno.

Damp does not mean saturated.

By the way, just out of curiousity, how old are you?


Keep measuring those NHLers sticks while you are up in "E" section.

You do know why I am saying that? I will remind you. YOU ARE THE ONE WHO made that statement.

That is right, you were just in the locker room and sized him up for that stick.


Get a life toker.
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Postby NIN on Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:14 pm

Scott wrote:NIN, you are amazing.

Will you ever read something as it is written?

Not by me, but anyone.

You do this with everyone. Everyone gets what they write, but you.

Warm does not mean a flaming inferno.

Damp does not mean saturated.

By the way, just out of curiousity, how old are you?


Keep measuring those NHLers sticks while you are up in "E" section.

You do know why I am saying that? I will remind you. YOU ARE THE ONE WHO made that statement.

That is right, you were just in the locker room and sized him up for that stick.


Get a life toker.


Well you did a great job at bailing out of this conversation because you were proven wrong early and often. I am still waiting for a comment from you that carries any real significance on this topic.

With that kind of dodgeing you could run for govener! Then you could make even more money!

I will still be an "E" section bum and you will remain a "C" section yuppie. Sound great to me!
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Postby the wicked child on Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:25 pm

God I love the internet. :)
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