Brooks Orpik's hit on E Cole

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Postby DelPen on Sun Mar 05, 2006 6:51 pm

ExPatriatePen wrote:Quite simply, the photograph speaks for itself.

The best part of hockey, IMHO, has always been the big hit.

I'd rather see Ulf, or Darius, or Brooks layout a bit hit, than see a Ronnie Francis type slapshot. Having said that, there are rules. Nothing is more disgusting than knee on knee or boarding like what Brooks did to Cole.

That's not to condem Brooks. He made a split second decision that was wrong, I've made a few of them myself. I've also paid the price.

I'm glad eric wasn't paralyzed. I'm also glad Brooks was suspended. Might help the next time he's in the same position.


Actually the photo does not speak for itself, it's a bit after the hit and Orpik is bouncing back off the boards. AT NO TIME DID HE LEAVE HIS FEET TO MAKE THE HIT.

But that being said, Orpik really drove Cole into the boards and intentionally shoved him. He could have put his arms up and only initiated a hip check. Still would have been a boarding call but this hit was done with malice. I don't think he tried to hurt him but he did end up doing it.

5-10 games would be right.
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Postby wallflower on Sun Mar 05, 2006 7:37 pm

Bowser wrote:Dave - I'm with you on this hit.

Me too.
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Postby netwolf on Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:22 pm

NIN wrote:Broken neck, jammed vertebrae same thing... I am a victim of a hit from behind and you could say my neck is broke too. If the definition is bones that arent where they should be is broken then its broke. It was a dirty hit but at the same time I did'nt do enough to prepare myself for the hit. I did'nt pick my head up fast enough and I got hurt. Also it doesnt help that im not exactly a model athlete and that guy is a tank.


According to the story, Eric Cole sustained a compression fracture of one of the vertebrae in his neck. That means the bone is cracked. It's not as simple as his neck being out of place or them being jammed. If you have broken bones in your neck, then it's broken. If you don't, it's not. Cole's neck is broken.

If you were the victim of a dirty hit, the responsibility lies with the guy that hit you. If I am at a stop light and some yahoo walks up and jerks me out of my car and takes off, I am not going to shrug it off and say, "Well, I should have locked my door. This is my fault."

I like Orpik and I like watching him play. I hope he remains a Penguin for a very long time. However, he made a dangerous play and someone got hurt. He paid the price that night and I'm sure he's get a few games off as further punishment. I don't think he could have avoided the hit altogether, but I still think he could have eased up and in that situation he should have.
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Postby lordstanley on Sun Mar 05, 2006 11:33 pm

I believe that Orpiks hit was one of the worst" from behind" hits i've ever seen. I am a huge penguins fan but the league has to crack down on this before somebody gets paralyzed or killed and if Orpik got suspended for the rest of the season I would have no problem with it at all.
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Postby netwolf on Sun Mar 05, 2006 11:44 pm

That's kind of strong don't you think? I think he'll likely be in the 3-5 game range. It was reckless, but not malicious.
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Postby lordstanley on Sun Mar 05, 2006 11:53 pm

give him 3-5 and you don't send a message at all. When not if a player gets paralyzed i'm sure you'll be one of the people saying that it could have been avoided if the league had been tougher on previous offenders.
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Postby cojac on Sun Mar 05, 2006 11:57 pm

Orpik should not take all the blame for this hit. Cole put HIMSELF in a bad position and Orpik already committed to the hit. Its hockey people get hurt, 1-2 game suspension should be it. When Rod Brind'amour wins something, let me know. I hope someone says hello to him the next game we play them.
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Postby lordstanley on Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:01 am

Cole put himself in a vulnerable position yes but Orpik is not too bright .....even pee wee age kids know that when a player is in that position you have got to back off on the hit!
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Postby goale6001 on Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:13 am

cojac wrote:Orpik should not take all the blame for this hit. Cole put HIMSELF in a bad position and Orpik already committed to the hit. Its hockey people get hurt, 1-2 game suspension should be it. When Rod Brind'amour wins something, let me know. I hope someone says hello to him the next game we play them.


Ha Ha :lol: that's funny ... your joking right!?!? The Pens didn't respond to Kovalchuck when he taunted Crosby that game or the night after. Dido after Hatcher rearranged Sid's teeth twice in one game. I can't imagine a little comment by Brind'amour is gonna get them fired up. I don't disagree with what you say ... I just don't think it would ever happen, unfortunately. :?
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Postby NIN on Mon Mar 06, 2006 2:56 am

netwolf wrote: If I am at a stop light and some yahoo walks up and jerks me out of my car and takes off, I am not going to shrug it off and say, "Well, I should have locked my door. This is my fault."


Good example but I think there is alittle more to it then you have explained. My situation is tottally different because it was a "no checking" league but things were really chippy out there and I was wearing a bullseye. In the NHL it is always to be expected. So it isnt a matter of wether or not the guy yanked you out of your car or not, its about how you are prepared for it. It is a fact of life that you will become a hit and run victim in the NHL and if you know it is about to happen (Cole absolutely knew Orpik was going to finsh him, that isnt even a debate) your responsibility is to protect yourself and not just lay there and let him slam you around. Cole may have tried to do that but leaning back against a charging Orpik isnt never going to work and now Cole understands that fact more than he would care too. Next time he will forget about that puck (in a BLOWOUT no less, what did he think Orpik would do? Give up?) and let his body absorb the punishment and live to fight another battle.

As for me I got 4 vertebrae in my neck that are pretty much crushed together and a cyropractor made it worse. I fear it may be sometime before I am allowed to play again. One thing is for certain, I wont ever assume the guy that is going to check me is a little *****. I am going to assume he is Donald Brashear and he means to do me permenant harm. I'll still make the play but I wont ever assume it wont be without consiquences. Hopefully that attitude will help me absorb hits better.
Last edited by NIN on Mon Mar 06, 2006 2:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby the wicked child on Mon Mar 06, 2006 2:58 am

I dunno. I was lsitening on the radio at the time that it happened and didn't see it till later... the way Borque reacted, I was expecting much worse.

MAYBE Orpik had a split second to pull up, maybe not... hard to judge. But the bottom line is that if Cole deosn't decide to put his head down right before Orpik checks him, this probably isn't even a penalty, let alone a major discussion.

I have a bad feeling Brooks will get more than he deserves given the severity of the injury sustained, but I don't feel it was dirty.

Naturally if it was reversed I would be irate, but that is part of being a fan I suppose. :)
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Postby Zscout on Mon Mar 06, 2006 6:45 am

I always look at these as what I think if it was a Penguins getting hurt.
In this case I would want the offender to get a stiff penalty.
There is no place for that type of hit in the NHL.
I would expect at least 5 game suspensio.
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Postby netwolf on Mon Mar 06, 2006 8:53 am

NIN wrote:My situation is tottally different because it was a "no checking" league but things were really chippy out there and I was wearing a bullseye.


If it was a no checking league, then you definitely bear no responsibility for your injury. You shouldn't have to worry about being prepared for a hit when hitting isn't legal. Being prepared for it is always a good idea, I'm just saying that you shouldn't HAVE to. Sooner or later that guy will get his...

Excellent article by Molinari about the hit in today's PG. He did a good job of giving both sides of the story.

http://post-gazette.com/pg/06065/665806.stm
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Postby ExPatriatePen on Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:05 am

DelPen wrote:Actually the photo does not speak for itself, it's a bit after the hit and Orpik is bouncing back off the boards. AT NO TIME DID HE LEAVE HIS FEET TO MAKE THE HIT.


That's not what the picture shows. So I viewed actual footage of the incident frame by frame. You're right, he didn;t leave his feet till after the hit. (Of course that shows how forceful the hit was, it actaully had enough energy to launch Brooks)


DelPen wrote:But that being said, Orpik really drove Cole into the boards and intentionally shoved him.


Now it's time for me to correct you. He didn't lay a hand on him, his hands are down. Believe it or not, he actually did back off the hit by not pushing Cole and by keeping his hands down. He hit him squarely trhough. It looks like Brooks made full contact with his complete Torso. Everything from his hips through his chest are in that hit.

Brooks suspension is just about right. I looked it up and this is his first major this year (The others were from fighting - A different issue all together) And he's only ever been suspended once in his career (That for a Knee on Knee). So he doesn't have any history of this kind of thing.

I feel sorry for Eric, but I'm not going to crucify Brooks. This was a poor decision on Brooks part which was compounded by Coles own poor decision. Brooks broke a rule, Eric just did something stupid.
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Postby randy on Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:12 am

wow, im really surprised at some of the posts about this. I figured the usual suspect skirts would be out to crucify orpik. Anyone whos ever played forward knows you dont go into that danger zone with your back turned to the play, and leaning forward too for that matter.

Cole has no one to blame but himself for putting himself in that dangerous situation, and playing the puck instead of the man.

lavolette is even more of an idiot than previously thought, after that olympic debvacle, thats saying something
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Postby pfim on Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:17 pm

randy wrote:wow, im really surprised at some of the posts about this. I figured the usual suspect skirts would be out to crucify orpik. Anyone whos ever played forward knows you dont go into that danger zone with your back turned to the play, and leaning forward too for that matter.

Cole has no one to blame but himself for putting himself in that dangerous situation, and playing the puck instead of the man.

lavolette is even more of an idiot than previously thought, after that olympic debvacle, thats saying something


Whether it's right or not, or whether people like it, the precedent has already been set in the NHL, players need to let up on players who put themselves in that position.

Watching it live on TV, I think it's obvious what was going to happen before it actually happened. I thought it was pretty obvious what Cole was going to do, and Orpik should have reacted accordingly.

Laviollette is just speaking out of frustration, although after a day, he should shut his trap.
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Postby NIN on Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:25 pm

pfim wrote:Whether it's right or not, or whether people like it, the precedent has already been set in the NHL, players need to let up on players who put themselves in that position.

Watching it live on TV, I think it's obvious what was going to happen before it actually happened. I thought it was pretty obvious what Cole was going to do, and Orpik should have reacted accordingly.

Laviollette is just speaking out of frustration, although after a day, he should shut his trap.


Then what is the awnser? Get rid of checking alltogether? IT IS IMPOSSIBLE to just let up on a hit when your momentum is already set. Nobody can just go from 60 to 0 in a fraction of an eye. It is incumbent upon all players to protect themselves when going into the boards. Kids can't be told enough to keep their HEADS UP.

In football when they finish their hit the player tumbles out of bounds, rarely does anybody get seriously injured let alone paralyzed. In hockey when you finish your hit that person is going into a wall. Letting up just isn't an option. Players are obligated to protect themselves!
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Postby pfim on Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:33 pm

NIN wrote:
pfim wrote:Whether it's right or not, or whether people like it, the precedent has already been set in the NHL, players need to let up on players who put themselves in that position.

Watching it live on TV, I think it's obvious what was going to happen before it actually happened. I thought it was pretty obvious what Cole was going to do, and Orpik should have reacted accordingly.

Laviollette is just speaking out of frustration, although after a day, he should shut his trap.


Then what is the awnser? Get rid of checking alltogether? IT IS IMPOSSIBLE to just let up on a hit when your momentum is already set. Nobody can just go from 60 to 0 in a fraction of an eye. It is incumbent upon all players to protect themselves when going into the boards. Kids can't be told enough to keep their HEADS UP.

In football when they finish their hit the player tumbles out of bounds, rarely does anybody get seriously injured let alone paralyzed. In hockey when you finish your hit that person is going into a wall. Letting up just isn't an option. Players are obligated to protect themselves!


Like I said, I don't think this was a "fraction of an eye" situation or whatever. He had him lined up for quite a while, it was obvious to me what was going to happen.

NFL players now have to let up on QBs and defenseless receivers despite what they're taught from peewee on.

The NHL does not care what position the offensive player puts himself in, so it will not be a factor in Orpik's suspension. Whether that's right or wrong doesn't matter because that is the reality, and it won't change.
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Postby NIN on Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:41 pm

pfim wrote:Like I said, I don't think this was a "fraction of an eye" situation or whatever. He had him lined up for quite a while, it was obvious to me what was going to happen.

NFL players now have to let up on QBs and defenseless receivers despite what they're taught from peewee on.

The NHL does not care what position the offensive player puts himself in, so it will not be a factor in Orpik's suspension. Whether that's right or wrong doesn't matter because that is the reality, and it won't change.


I agree that he had him lined up, that is typical of almost every hit. The first thing you do is get a bead on a guy and then finish him. Cole turned into the boards and put his head down. Otherwise he gets hit and punished but nobody gets hurt.

The NFL QB situation is like having Crosby stand in the middle of the ice and allowing Scott Stevens to skate 10 stride into him from behind and level him with a forearm. It is different because the QB is a sitting duck whereas a hockey player with his head up can protect himself.

I agree with your 3rd point. It has more to do with the fans outrage and how that could effect ticket sales more then anything else. It is a business and these guys are just stars in a commercial evrytime they play. If the passive fan doesnt think they want their child subjected to paralyztion the sport dies alitte. If the image is that getting hit from behind isnt typical buy issueing a suspension then it could contain the damage done to the public eye.
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Postby pfim on Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:50 pm

The NFL QB situation is like having Crosby stand in the middle of the ice and allowing Scott Stevens to skate 10 stride into him from behind and level him with a forearm. It is different because the QB is a sitting duck whereas a hockey player with his head up can protect himself.


Sometimes, but a lot of those hits occur outside the pocket with both players in full stride. Same with defenseless WRs and TEs.

I don't think it has to do with fan outrage, but keeping good players on the ice. The penalties and suspensions may not help a checker from making a split second decision, but I think they give players pause when lining up guys like Orpik did. I don't think what he did was dirty at all, but no one wants to see that, and if it means taking a small fraction of hits out of the game, I think a lot of people could live without those hits.
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Postby lordstanley on Mon Mar 06, 2006 6:22 pm

I really like this web site but some of you have no clue about the game but you comment about it like you've played it for 20 years. Orpik has the ability to not completely stop before the hit but he can definetly pull up before he buries Cole into the boards. He never made the attempt to soften the blow he delivered and if you read the Pittsburgh papers he admits he knew that Cole was in a vulnerable position and when he hits people he does it to hurt them. 20 game suspension!
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Postby Ginger on Mon Mar 06, 2006 7:21 pm

lordstanley wrote:I really like this web site but some of you have no clue about the game but you comment about it like you've played it for 20 years. Orpik has the ability to not completely stop before the hit but he can definetly pull up before he buries Cole into the boards. He never made the attempt to soften the blow he delivered and if you read the Pittsburgh papers he admits he knew that Cole was in a vulnerable position and when he hits people he does it to hurt them. 20 game suspension!

What do we do to deter these kinds of hits in future? I'm not talking about the hits that turn into an injury by accident, but the ones like this. 'Cuz no matter how Cole was postured, Orpik made no attempt to pull up & make a clean solid hit. We know we want the NHL to handle it & not someone from outside the league as was nearly the case of Moore/Bertuzzi; so what do we want the NHL to do here? Slap 15 game suspensions on the player & fine the coach? Would that serve as a deterrent...or deterrent enough? We better figure out something soon because these types of hits are happening at a faster rate & if they continue to piddle around someone is going to be paralyzed by it.
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Postby netwolf on Mon Mar 06, 2006 8:08 pm

You'll never have a deterrent that prevents it from happening. Lots of times these things happen in an instant and many hockey players rely alot on instincts. The potential for injury in greater now becuase players are bigger, stronger, and faster.
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Postby NIN on Mon Mar 06, 2006 8:48 pm

everyone on OLN concurs with what the sensible posters here have concluded. Nothing Orpik could have done and Cole did it to himself.
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Postby tifosi77 on Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:15 am

From the moment I saw it, I thought it was a dirty hit. Not dirty in the Bryan-Marchment-intentionally-trying-to-hurt-someone sense of the word, but in the should-have-known-better sense of the word. Brooks is by no means a dirty player, but imo he crossed over the line on that play.
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