***CLUE WARS POST-GAME***

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***CLUE WARS POST-GAME***

Postby Kraftster on Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:11 am

Congratulations to the guests and the Doctor (and Frank) for squeaking out a win over the Murderers.

Role players as explained by initial PMs:

Detective - played by bhaw

Congratulations, you’ve received the role of Detective in Clue Wars! You have the ability to investigate a player each night in order to see two of his/her clues. If you wish to see the third clue for someone you have already investigated, you may investigate them again to see the other clue. Use your ability to investigate carefully, it is likely that there will be a Murderer lurking about the Mansion at night. The more you use your ability, the greater the chance that you’ll end up leaving a clue behind.

As the Detective you are aware of your three clues, which are: Key to the Billiard Room, Wrench, and Wrist Band.

Please send your nightly PM to Kraftster and Benny Fitz.


Doctor - played by pittsports87

Kraftster wrote:Congratulations, you’ve received the role of Doctor in Clue Wars! You have the ability to protect a player each night. You may not protect the same player on consecutive nights unless you successful block an attack by a Murderer. You must use your protect every night.

As the Doctor you are aware of your three clues, which are: Key to the Study, Knife, and Wrist Band.

Please send your nightly PM to Kraftster and Benny Fitz.


Murderer - played by redwill

Kraftster wrote:Congratulations, you’ve received the role of Murderer in Clue Wars! Your goal is to work with your fellow murderers in order to gain majority over the Mansion. As a Murderer, you are aware of the three clues in your possession. They are: Key to the Kitchen, Wrench, and a Bow Tie.

You may communicate freely with your fellow murderers: newarenanow and obhave. The three of you have the ability to kill another player or “see” another player’s three clues every night. If you choose to kill, you must decide which of the three of you will commit the murder. Each one of you must commit a murder before any of you can commit a second murder. Be careful when killing as you’re likely going to leave clues behind. Any one of the three of you can send in the night action for the group. Please send all of your nightly PMs to Kraftster and Benny Fitz.


Murderer - played by newarenanow

Kraftster wrote:Congratulations, you’ve received the role of Murderer in Clue Wars! Your goal is to work with your fellow murderers in order to gain majority over the Mansion. As a Murderer, you are aware of the three clues in your possession. They are: Key to the Conservatory, Revolver and a Smoking Pipe.

You may communicate freely with your fellow murderers: redwill and obhave. The three of you have the ability to kill another player or “see” another player’s three clues every night. If you choose to kill, you must decide which of the three of you will commit the murder. Each one of you must commit a murder before any of you can commit a second murder. Be careful when killing as you’re likely going to leave clues behind. Any one of the three of you can send in the night action for the group. Please send all of your nightly PMs to Kraftster and Benny Fitz.


Murderer - played by obhave

Kraftster wrote:Congratulations, you’ve received the role of Murderer in Clue Wars! Your goal is to work with your fellow murderers in order to gain majority over the Mansion. As a Murderer, you are aware of the three clues in your possession. They are: Key to the Library, Knife, and a Bow Tie.

You may communicate freely with your fellow murderers: redwill and newarenanow. The three of you have the ability to kill another player or “see” another player’s three clues every night. If you choose to kill, you must decide which of the three of you will commit the murder. Each one of you must commit a murder before any of you can commit a second murder. Be careful when killing as you’re likely going to leave clues behind. Any one of the three of you can send in the night action for the group. Please send all of your nightly PMs to Kraftster and Benny Fitz.


Clue distribution:

Room 1 (twc): Knife | Conservatory | Smoking Pipe
Room 2 (mac): Revolver | Library | Fedora
Room 3 (thg): Wrench | Study | Bow Tie
Room 4 (teib): Rope | Billiard Room | Sunglasses
Room 5 (litt): Lead Pipe | Kitchen | Wrist Band
Room 6 (mwb): Revolver | Billiard Room | Smoking Pipe
Room 7 (rel): Wrench | Library | Sunglasses
Room 8 (Gau): Knife | Kitchen | Fedora
Room 9 (EPP): Rope | Conservatory | Wrist Band
Room 10 (Ryl): Lead Pipe | Study | Bow Tie
Room 11 (col): Lead Pipe | Conservatory | Fedora
Room 12 (obh): Knife | Library | Bow Tie
Room 13 (bhaw): Wrench | Billiard Room | Wrist Band
Room 14 (IE): Rope | Study | Smoking Pipe
Room 15 (Troy): Revolver | Kitchen | Sunglasses
Room 16 (ps87): Knife | Study | Wrist Band
Room 17 (nan): Revolver | Conservatory | Smoking Pipe
Room 18 (shaf): Rope | Library | Fedora
Room 19 (red): Wrench | Kitchen | Bow Tie
Room 20 (Zaro): Lead Pipe | Billiard Room | Sunglasses

Night 1 Actions:
obhave kills bhaw
bhaw investigates shaf (sees 2 clues per random.org); shaf tipped that he’s investigated (sees 1 clue per random.org - Key to the Library)
ps87 protects himself

Benny and I were pretty devastated that we lost the seer on Night 1. We wished there was a way we could keep him around but, alas, there was no way. We ultimately decided that it would be a good true test of whether the game we created lived up to what we wanted, which was a game that would give the blues the ability to put pieces together and work deductively rather than act on suspicions alone.

Day 1 Action:
Kill: Irish Eyes
Question: Is a guest staying in an even room wearing a bow tie? Yes.

We were really excited by the amount of activity on Day 1. Blues were definitely eager to figure out how to use their new found power that they had. The phase focused on question first and vote second. We knew that the trickiest part of the game would be getting a handle on the fact that items were not unique to specific players (but the sequence of items were). Not surprised by the Day 1 question, and certainly a reasonable choice by the village.

Night 2 Actions:
nan kills thg
ps87 saves Rylan (what a nice guy ;))

Reds target one of the better talkers on Day 1 (this would prove to be a pattern).

Day 2 Action:
Kill: mac5155
Question: Of the people still living, does only one of them have a bow tie? No.

Good question by the blues to get the concept that items were not totally unique, but I think this is the day that really derailed things for the blues. We were really surprised at how much the normal game was deserted in favor of focusing solely on the clues (and this really played out throughout the game). MWB was absolutely zeroed in with some of the stuff he was saying on Day 2. We had to make sure we hadn’t included him on some of the game dev PMs. His 5x4 item guess was perhaps the most impressive bit of analysis in the game.

At this point we felt like people were unnecessarily overwhelmed with the game. Hopefully in the end its clear that it was not so complicated -- really if it was too complicating, it could have just been played as a standard game with the clues just sort of there in the background. When discussing the game at this point on gchat, Benny put it well when he said: “right, we play games with nothing but dialogue and they accuse the **** out of each other, then we add in a pinch of "do it yourself blues" and they freeze up?”

Night 3 Action:
redwill kills MWB
ps87 saves self

We wondered a bit whether the reds would see at this point and are wondering whether they ever contemplated it. We assume it was easier to ignore because of thee death of the seer, but ultimately, taking it a bit slower and using some seese before killing might have tipped the game even more towards the reds. Our idea was that the reds would want to find someone that was a “clean kill” in that they didn’t eliminate one person with any of the clues possessed by the reds. We figured the game would be really hard for the reds towards the end if there wasn’tsome overlap in clues. Predictable move to kill MWB, though, given the thg kill. Effective move given the fact that MWB was really zeroed in.

Day 3 Action:
Kill relantel
Question: Did four of the original guests possess a revolver? Yes.

Nice question. In future games it might not take this long to get a beat on the number of each particular item in the game, which will help the blues signifcantly. Still, on the right track to use theq uestions first to understand the game mechanics, I think.

More confusion this day. Focus was again entirely on the clues at the expense of traditional game play -- accusations, suspicious behave, etc. were all pretty absent because it wasn’t really treated like a normal game. This is where redwill began his (pretty epic) leading of the sheep. We really appreciated redwill sort of helping everyone get on board with the mechanics of the game, and it turned out to really be a great strategic move as people found it pretty easy to follow him until he threw himself out there under the bus.

Night 4 Action:
obhave kills EPP
ps87 saves obhave

Again, kind of thought we might see a see used here by the reds to find the perfect victim. Probably pretty confident bunch at this point, though.

At this point we felt that the reds were running away with the game so we dropped the shadowy figure picture as part of Frank’s dream. We planned on coming back to this picture at the end when/if the reds won to tie in some of the extra-game storyline going on with Frank. We thought this would have been really cool if the reds could have pulled it out.

Day 4 Action:
Kill shafnutz05
Question: Does a person in an odd room that is currently living have a wrench? Yes.

We weren’t crazy about the shaf kill for the village. We kind of thought shaf would come out sooner with his information to try to establish that items were not toally unique (perhaps leading to a different question on Day 1) but certainly understand not wanting to do it in a new game. Anyway, it didn’t really make sense to us to be suspicious of shaf for sharing his info. redwill some sharp leading the herd on this day as well.

Night 5 Action:
nan kills Rylan
obhave modkilled
ps87 saves self

We had a tough decision to make with respect to obhave notifying us that she would not be able to play this week. We contemplated replacing her with someone else but felt that this could lead to unnecessary speculation that an RP would not be replaced and the new player would be somewhat cleared. Toughest part was obhave had no heat on her at all, but, we felt that the safest move for the sake of the game was to kill obhave. Arguably if that didn’t happen reds would have won.

Because we mod-killed obhave, we gave the reds one free see that they could use with a kill on a given night. We were really surprised that this free see ended up not being used until it became rather worthless.

Day 5 Action:
Kill: Godric
Question:Does either columbia or LITT possess a wrench? No.

PS87 was doing a very good job with tracking everything at this point. The game seemed to be coming i nto clearer focus for those who were left.
More redwill leading the way. At this point we’re wondering why no one is picking up on the fact that everyone that talked a lot and analyzed game mechanics prior to redwill was killed.
The question was a good one, really started to allow the village to hone in on the reds, which seems it was part of redwill’s plan to effectively lead the village to him and allow his comrades to finish it off.

Night 6 Action:
redwill kills columbia
ps87 protects teib

We thought this was an ideal spot to take a stab at getting a clean night kill ( finding someone who did not have overlapping clues with NAN)

Day 6 Action:
Kill Troy Loney
Question: Does NAN possess a wrench? No.

This is the question that did red in. Well played for it to take that long, and we thought that this effectively cleared NAN in the minds of the village. Smart play.

Night 7 Action:
nan kills LITT
ps87 saves self

Day 7 Action:
Kill redwill
Question Does either Zaro or TEIB have a key to the Conservatory? No.

This left the only people not cleared as NAN and Gaucho if ps87 was believed.

Night 8 Action:
Nan sees teib
Nan kills Gaucho

Gaucho was the only person that NAN shouldn’t have killed we thought. If it was anyone else, it would have been a showdown for whether PS87 and the other living player would have voted for NAN or Gaucho. I thought the reds had done what they needed to in order to get the vote onto Gaucho.

Day 8 Action:
Kill: Nan
GAME OVER

Overall, we had a lot of fun modding this game. We wanted to do something different that was more about logic than guess work and was a longer/slower, sort of change of pace game. The game sort of amounts to weakened greens, strengthened blues, and an easy one for reds to get far in, but a tough one for reds to make the final push to a win. There were some other things that didn’t happen which we’ll hold in reserve for the next time around. Our main concern was getting the numbers of clues and items in the game just right. I think we succeeded with that based upon how long the game lasted and how the clues played out, but perhaps if the seer had lived we’d feel differently. ps87 showed us that it wasn’t too hard to track the relevant clues (another concern), so thanks for that, ps!

Thanks for playing! We hope to run Clue Wars 2.0 someday in the future.

Image
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Re: ***CLUE WARS POST-GAME***

Postby Kraftster on Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:18 am

obhave mod-killed for no internet then she's buzzing around this joint like crazy this week. I am calling you "Oh B. Hai" from now on.
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Re: ***CLUE WARS POST-GAME***

Postby obhave on Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:20 am

Kraftster wrote:obhave mod-killed for no internet then she's buzzing around this joint like crazy this week. I am calling you "Oh B. Hai" from now on.

Did you see my post in JTOR as to what happened?


Edit: here is the post
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=40544&start=20200#p1824612

I was pissed I had to quit when no one had any suspicion on me. Even more pissed when I found out I didn't have to :lol:
Last edited by obhave on Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ***CLUE WARS POST-GAME***

Postby columbia on Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:23 am

I'm not sure that I've see one player so responsible for a win....

pittsports87: :fist: :thumb:
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Re: ***CLUE WARS POST-GAME***

Postby Benny Fitz on Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:48 am

Yea, I was really impressed by PS87, MWB, and redwill this game.

PS87 - was heading in the right direction from day 1. The only problem was that everyone was so confused that no one really listened to what he was saying. he was like our in game mod. when people would ask invalid questions, we'd be like " **** we're gonna have to post something to clear this up.....oh...nm. PS87 just cleared it up."

redwill -I appreciate what redwill did in leading the charge. I think one could make the argument that he did it for game strategy's sake, but either way I feel that he and the reds could have sat back and basked in the confusion of this new game and won handedly. But he stepped up and got the village focused (for better or worse). Thanks red.

MWB - as Kraftster said, there were a few times where we were questioning whether or not one of us consulted him in making this game. it was uncanny how spot on he was sometimes.
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Re: ***CLUE WARS POST-GAME***

Postby Benny Fitz on Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:05 am

Outtakes? Sure why not...

Outtake #1
Frank wrote:I am eternally grateful for your help in solving these murders. As a token of my appreciation, I'd like to give you all a complimentary one week's stay with me next summer.
Spoiler:
:pop:
Image



Outtake #2
Frank wrote:obhave....umm...about those dreams....
Spoiler:
Image



Outtake #3
Frank wrote:
Spoiler:
Can you believe I thought this SOB was dead?! He's always doing that!

Image

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Re: ***CLUE WARS POST-GAME***

Postby newarenanow on Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:06 am

Great game guys. Nice addiition with the questions, although it was my ultimate doom at the end.

Honestly, we never really thought about getting clues when we used the "see". I don't know what went through redwill's mind, but I thought we would just get a "so and so is blue". We knew PS87 was green. Never thought to (at least I didn't) see clues that may have help with a question and protected us, or at least made it confusing.

I don't know why I killed Gaucho. Should have kept him. Bad move on my part. People were accusing me and Zaro of following each other, so I planned on playing off of that, but when the question came back that teib and Zaro didn't have the Consveratory key, that all but nailed me. I blew it. redwill set it up perfect and I missed big time. Should have been paying more attention.

And obhave getting mod killed really f'd us. We were rolling, and she had no heat. I'm not going to blame her, because she truly thought that she wasn't going to have internet access, but when redwill and I saw her on here a lot after that, we were scratching our heads.

Not saying it was 100% we'd win, but I think our chances would have been a hell of a lot better. That killed us.

Great game guys.
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Re: ***CLUE WARS POST-GAME***

Postby obhave on Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:11 am

I'm really sorry :(

I did miss I think like 4 phases while traveling, so that could of been bad if anything had happened to redwill or nan while I couldn't get on.
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Re: ***CLUE WARS POST-GAME***

Postby Gaucho on Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:52 am

Well played, ps87.
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Re: ***CLUE WARS POST-GAME***

Postby IrishEyes on Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:54 am

Kraftster, Benny... what a fun game. Even though I was locked up day 1, it was a blast until then, and even after, I followed along until the end, trying to figure it out for myself.

I know I made a comment about how focused people were about the clues and the question, and after I was done, I really wanted to yell "focus on who to accuse!" But with a new in-game thing going on, it's easy to be distracted by the question.

Great game, guys. I really enjoyed it.
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Re: ***CLUE WARS POST-GAME***

Postby newarenanow on Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:56 am

As a bad guy, I loved the questions at first. Kept people from focusing on getting people out. To weed downt he field.

However, at the end, it killed us.
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Re: ***CLUE WARS POST-GAME***

Postby relantel on Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:04 pm

Great game - making us think, leading to more activity, always a good thing.
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Re: ***CLUE WARS POST-GAME***

Postby Zarovich on Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:21 pm

newarenanow wrote:Great game guys. Nice addiition with the questions, although it was my ultimate doom at the end.

Honestly, we never really thought about getting clues when we used the "see". I don't know what went through redwill's mind, but I thought we would just get a "so and so is blue". We knew PS87 was green. Never thought to (at least I didn't) see clues that may have help with a question and protected us, or at least made it confusing.

I don't know why I killed Gaucho. Should have kept him. Bad move on my part. People were accusing me and Zaro of following each other, so I planned on playing off of that, but when the question came back that teib and Zaro didn't have the Consveratory key, that all but nailed me. I blew it. redwill set it up perfect and I missed big time. Should have been paying more attention.

And obhave getting mod killed really f'd us. We were rolling, and she had no heat. I'm not going to blame her, because she truly thought that she wasn't going to have internet access, but when redwill and I saw her on here a lot after that, we were scratching our heads.

Not saying it was 100% we'd win, but I think our chances would have been a hell of a lot better. That killed us.

Great game guys.


Ya, I was surprised to see gaucho dead. I expected to see teib or myself dead and wait for the coin toss between you and gaucho. I waited to vote to see if anything happened, but since nothing came up the next day phase, I went with you and figured if there was no angel and ps87 won, good for him lol
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Re: ***CLUE WARS POST-GAME***

Postby obhave on Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:31 pm

Benny Fitz wrote:Outtake #2
Frank wrote:obhave....umm...about those dreams....
Spoiler:
Image



:lol:
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Re: ***CLUE WARS POST-GAME***

Postby ExPatriatePen on Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:48 pm

So, forgive me for being a noob, but...

Did the reds know exactly who each other was from the start? In other words was there ever a chance they could have killed one of their own that first night?

Also, I gather that the reds were told what the item breakdown was from the start. Right?

Can Shaf explain why he sat on the information as long as he did? I'm not sure I understand the thinking there.

And obhave, why me? ;)
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Re: ***CLUE WARS POST-GAME***

Postby obhave on Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:52 pm

ExPatriatePen wrote:So, forgive me for being a noob, but...

Did the reds know exactly who each other was from the start? In other words was there ever a chance they could have killed one of their own that first night?

Also, I gather that the reds were told what the item breakdown was from the start. Right?

Can Shaf explain why he sat on the information as long as he did? I'm not sure I understand the thinking there.

And obhave, why me? ;)


In this game I knew who the other two reds were and we could talk to one another through PM.
We knew what our three clues were from the beginning, but that was it.
And I don't remember why anymore.
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Re: ***CLUE WARS POST-GAME***

Postby Rylan on Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:53 pm

ExPatriatePen wrote:So, forgive me for being a noob, but...

Did the reds know exactly who each other was from the start? In other words was there ever a chance they could have killed one of their own that first night? They know and can communicate with each other via PM

Also, I gather that the reds were told what the item breakdown was from the start. Right? Correct

Can Shaf explain why he sat on the information as long as he did? I'm not sure I understand the thinking there.

And obhave, why me? ;)


I can understand Shaf's predicament. Coming out with the info when it wouldn't have had value would've probably gotten lost or he would get voted off instantly. In a new game and coming out saying you had 33% of the clues is a death sentence, and inevitably actually was.

And when he got voted off I was frustrated cause I was practically sure NAN was red.
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Re: ***CLUE WARS POST-GAME***

Postby Kraftster on Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:54 pm

Also, there are not too many overlaps on clues in the game. The reds getting two bow ties was very unlucky because it narrowed the field of possible innocent bow ties.

I think the goal for the reds in this game will need to be leaving some overlapping clues at the end so the questions don't leave only one option for a vote.
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Re: ***CLUE WARS POST-GAME***

Postby Kraftster on Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:56 pm

Also, one of our other goals in putting this together was to do something that can be duplicated again in the future. I think we accomplished that -- -- possibly a tweak or two for the reds now that the mechanics are understood -- so if anyone would like to run a clue wars and wants to chat about anything with Benny and I, would be more than happy to share our thoughts. I know we'd both love to be on the playing side of a clue wars too!
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Re: ***CLUE WARS POST-GAME***

Postby columbia on Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:58 pm

Kraftster wrote:Also, one of our other goals in putting this together was to do something that can be duplicated again in the future. I think we accomplished that -- -- possibly a tweak or two for the reds now that the mechanics are understood -- so if anyone would like to run a clue wars and wants to chat about anything with Benny and I, would be more than happy to share our thoughts. I know we'd both love to be on the playing side of a clue wars too!


Interesting...a new template.
There was a lot of bellyaching about the success of the village, but I think everyone was pretty thrown off by the set up.....In a good way, to be honest.
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Re: ***CLUE WARS POST-GAME***

Postby Rylan on Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:02 pm

It was a great game, thanks Benny and Krafster.
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Re: ***CLUE WARS POST-GAME***

Postby Kraftster on Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:05 pm

columbia wrote:
Kraftster wrote:Also, one of our other goals in putting this together was to do something that can be duplicated again in the future. I think we accomplished that -- -- possibly a tweak or two for the reds now that the mechanics are understood -- so if anyone would like to run a clue wars and wants to chat about anything with Benny and I, would be more than happy to share our thoughts. I know we'd both love to be on the playing side of a clue wars too!


Interesting...a new template.
There was a lot of bellyaching about the success of the village, but I think everyone was pretty thrown off by the set up.....In a good way, to be honest.


Yeah, I think if you look at things all laid out here in the post game its the least non-standard game we've had in a while (which is why the amount of confusion it caused was so surprising to us). Its really just a basic game with clues involved giving the blues a sort of sleuth opportunity. In a way, it should be "easier" for the blues. Its pretty stripped down, the focus is more on the village than a variety of intricate role players. We wanted to do something that was like a logic game, and as it gets to the end I think it does turn into that.
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Re: ***CLUE WARS POST-GAME***

Postby Rylan on Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:07 pm

Also, find it funny that PS87 protected obhave while she killed someone. So we should throw him in jail for being an accomplice :pop:
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Re: ***CLUE WARS POST-GAME***

Postby ExPatriatePen on Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:11 pm

To be fair, no way PS87 knew obhave was a killer when he did that.

Obhave, was there any reason for choosing Bhaw on night one or was it a lucky guess?

Also, who determined which red got the kill each night?
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Re: ***CLUE WARS POST-GAME***

Postby columbia on Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:15 pm

Losing bhaw so early did not help us, that's for sure.
columbia
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